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My dream is to become rich!

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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  • #38219
    Lester
    Participant

    I need to be rich so i get snag the best looking girl i can get, go to vacations anywhere, achieve fame, engrave my legacy, be important.

    I need somebody to explain to me what is wrong with this vision. After all, its just life right? I only get one chance to live it the way I want it to. And honestly no matter how much I read about and people telling how superficial my dreams and goals are, the fact of the matter is, I still want it, really really bad. Is there something wrong with this mindset? Because I really don’t see what is wrong with fantasizing your life according to your imagination. If I don’t succeed, at least I dared to dream.

    #38220
    Lester
    Participant
    #38222
    John
    Participant

    The first question you might want to ask yourself is why do you want all these things? What happiness will they bring? What void are you trying to fill with all of these superficial externalities?

    Remember the second noble truth – the cause of suffering is desire and craving. It is a vicious cycle that will never end; there will always be a better looking girl, there will always be a place you haven’t visited, you could always be more famous, you could always have more money, you could always be more important, you could always be more successful, and yet none of these things will make you happy.

    What is wrong with fantasy? That’s just it. It’s all fantasy. It’s the fact that you’ll be constantly be living in your head. If you let it, your imagination will run wild. This is your mind and ego playing its old tricks dragging you into wanting more and more. Given in now and you’ll never be satiated. You’ll always be running after something.

    Have a good wife, make a good income, take time off from work, be a hero to your community, let your children be your legacy, and be an important person to your family and friends – that is happiness! 🙂

    #38226
    Lester
    Participant

    I understand but how do we really know for sure that fantasy is bad?

    Its true the bad thing about being a dreamer is that it leads to disappointment, heartbreak, depression, etc. But the best thing about being a dreamer is also that it leads to disappointment, heartbreak, depression, etc. I say this because from my experience, the life experiences that have given me the most valuable lessons are the experiences that left completely and utterly broken, however for them I consider myself very very lucky because it made me the person I am today. And that’s my point, is that I have trouble accepting desire and craving is bad because if it weren’t for these element of our life we would still be premitive monkeys making bows and arrows. Desire and craving leads to evolution and growth.

    I don’t mean to rude but john your idea of happiness is too ordinary for me. I’d rather live in loneliness and despair if that is all life has to offer me. =|

    #38245
    John
    Participant

    Hey Lester,

    From what I gather, you’re approaching this with wide eyes open and that’s commendable. Scary, but commendable. You know that the life you described will only lead to depression, heartache, stress, anxiety, loneliness, despair, a potential mental nervous breakdown, and yet you’re still willing to chase after that fantasy.

    (To be honest, I have a bit of hard time believing that you’ve actually experienced these things in their full force, because anyone who has will tell you that depression, anxiety, and loneliness are a hell worse than any made up in any story, but I’ll have to give you the benefit of the doubt.)

    But if a man has had his hand singed to a crisp and is about to put his hand in the fire knowing full well that he’s about to be burned again, it’s probably going to be very hard to try and stop him.

    What I propose as alternative is a middle path and not one of extremes, all or nothing, nor black or white thinking.

    I disagree that desire and craving leads to evolution and growth. Desire and craving lead to revolution. And, if we’ve learned anything from history, all revolutions result in immediate pain and suffering. It’s only through a return to modesty, humility, peace, and striving for equanimity that we can actually make progress, evolve, and grow.

    It’s okay to dream and have hopes, but ones that are grounded in reality, look beyond the superficial, and recognize the impermanence of things like beauty, wealth, and success. My advice would be, don’t slip into the black hole of fantasy. Even teetering on its edge can suck you right in and never let you go.

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by John.
    #38254
    Matt
    Participant

    Lester,

    In addition to John’s pertinent but overlooked advice, a few things struck me about your crafty plan to dream of wealth and women. I wonder, do you have more fun with the women in your mind? Said differently, your dreams are filled with pleasurable images, but for the images you are sacrificing your joy. You respond by saying its worth it, but that says to me you don’t understand where lasting happiness comes from.

    The problem with indulging in fantasy is it becomes a habit. We see a beautiful woman, and our body responds to her by increasing its energy. Then the mind blossoms with “what ifs” and “if onlys” and the mind disconnects from the girl and begins to have a relationship with the dream. Then the girl walks away and the fantasy decreases, as we realize the fantasy will never come true. We are left feeling hungry for another pretty face to inspire our dreaming. Over and over and over and over, we do this and become hungry ghosts. The vision used is a tiny mouth and a big belly. Said differently, a small amount of present moment awareness and a big mind to fill.

    In contrast, when we are not in patterns of self-indulgence, when we see a pretty girl we have the energy to do with however we wish. We can go talk to her. We can listen deeply to who she is and what she likes. We can do anything we want, because we are free. What those of us who chose this way of being discover is that being with the actual woman is far more fulfilling than being with the fantasy.

    This is the same for all desires. For instance, if your dream is to be rich then you will be so busy fantasizing about the money you will pass up all of the opportunity to become rich. The only solution is to give up the fantasy and cultivate a real connection with who you are and where you are and what is there. That’s where all the information is, that’s where all the power is, and that’s where the evolution happens.

    Don’t take my word for it though, you can test it out if you wish. Try going to a restaurant and picking out a meal and a dessert before ordering. As the meal comes, can you taste it? How many times does your mind stray to the dessert? What some of us have realized is that the meal and dessert taste amazing, and by letting go of the future fantasy, the flavor of the meal is vibrant and satisfying. Then dessert or not dessert is irrelevant, because the satisfaction is potently vibrating from whatever food is in our mouth.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    #38262
    Lester
    Participant

    I think I’m being misunderstood here. I don’t mean clinging to specific vision that despite what my physical reality’s feedback is telling me. If I want to fly, I’m not going to jump over and over again until I achieve flight, I would get into an airplane.

    I propose to give in to our desires and cravings and take action towards them until we syncronize with what physical surroundings allows. And for what its worth reality is a vague concept – what I mean is that, if people gave up the idea that men are not capable of flight then we wouldn’t have invented the airplane, or if people gave up the idea of using electricity for power then this conversation would have never taken place. All the things that we enjoy and take for granted today are all provoked by peoples desires and cravings – their visions.

    And John, modesty, humility, peace, and equanimity are only realized after a revolution. If there were no revolution there would be no such ideas. So craving and desire still is responsible for both some of the many ingredients for evolution and growth.

    And the fact that I desire to be rich have provoked me to post this question here allowing interesting conversations that expands my horizon about the topic.

    By the way, thank you guys for your kind and logical comments. I wish to explore this topic much deeper so please continue the thread.

    #38266
    John
    Participant

    I’m still not sure you need a revolution to achieve peace. But then again it depends on the definition of what mean by revolution – it can mean fighting, aggression, blood, and tears, but it can also mean letting go, stepping back, allowing, opening, and accepting. I support the latter more than I do the former.

    I’ve probably jumped to some conclusions so let’s go back to beginning and start with the most fundamental questions why do you want the best looking girl? why do you want to be famous? why do you want to leave a legacy?

    The Wright Brothers didn’t want to fly, they want to change the way people traveled and improve the quality of life for others.

    NASA didn’t want to go to the moon, they wanted to explore space, discover new frontiers in math and science, and realize man’s potential.

    What’s your “why”?

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by John.
    #38271
    Matt
    Participant

    Lester,

    Its true that desire leads us into the next moment, but there are noble desires, such as those which lead to the betterment of all people, and self-centric desires, which lead to the accumulation of sensually pleasing objects with no regards as to cost.

    Some people do not believe that desire for sense pleasure leads to suffering. That’s fine, and you’re correct that it leads to lessons. When we ignore the lessons, we are given other chances to learn. The thing is, the lesson from sense pleasure chasing is being unfulfilled, which is difficult to abandon because being unfulfilled pushes us to replace the lost sense pleasure with new ones. Ie, hungry ghost. Often, one has to cycle down until it is so painful that they abandon it out of pain. The lucky ones, with a mustard seed of faith, hear the truth and quickly see and abandon craving.

    Also consider that perhaps some of the innovations, such as the lightbulb, do not represent “dreams of wealth and women” coming true. Rather, some people look at their skill, a need the world has, and attempts to apply their knowledge for the betterment of all. Edison invented many things, but we have no reason to assume he was happy. Or that he wasn’t.

    What we do know is that many, many teachers who have looked deeply into the causes and conditions of happiness have stated in one way or another that material/sensual pleasure is not the path to joy. It brings about the pain which inspires the abandonment of that path for the path of joy… but the path itself is cyclical and unsatisfying.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    #38273
    Lester
    Participant

    My why? I don’t actually know myself, maybe I just want to understand this world through experience rather than just theorithecal concepts being told to me. Maybe I want riches to see what it is like first hand to buy anything I desire. Maybe I want to experience sex with a beautiful girl to feel what its like when dopamine rushes wildly around my neurons. Maybe I want to travel the world see and understand different cultures to see if it feels just as great as my imaginations. Maybe I want to leave a legacy because my selfish ego wants to just as great as the previous greats of the world. Maybe I just have the innate need to “know”.

    But my why is not important… the point is desiring things is essential part of our life. Now whether it causes us suffering or not is another topic but the overall point is that desiring promotes changes to the world that leads to evolution and growth.

    #38274
    John
    Participant

    Knowledge and experience are worthy goals only if its to learn how empty and vapid the things you described really are. We could spare you the time, effort, energy, suffering, and pain to tell you that they are, but if you need first hand experience to truly know it, by all means go for it.

    I’m of the mindset that there are certain things I can learn based on the experience of others and not necessarily through first hand experience (e.g. more money leads to more problems, sex without love leaves you feeling empty and unsatisfied, no matter what mark you make on the world eventually it will be forgotten, etc)

    But I also recognize I’m also no different from you. I still have very common selfish desires and cravings and strive to accomplish certain things in life so in that way, you and are very similar and struggle with similar issues.

    #38277
    Lester
    Participant

    Matt, thank you, I think you have just knocked down one of my army of “deep questions I don’t know how to ask”. That there are noble desires and non-noble desires. The difference between my desire and the desire of buddha for example is that the buddha “desires” to end suffering which is a noble desire and one that leads to betterment of others, while my desire only seeks pleasure me or rather my idea of myself.

    It confuses me that abandonment of desire is preached because it is still on the basis of the desire to end suffering, but perhaps with the noble desires in the equation it makes a little more sense. Perhaps the desire preached to be abandoned are the non-noble desires.

    Thank you John and Matt, I really enjoyed this conversation!

    http://www.lesterdc.com

    #38279
    Matt
    Participant

    Lester,

    Your statement that desire is needed is true. When we are hungry, it inspires a desire to eat. This does not mean that all desires are worth pursuing. Sometimes the lesson of the pricker bush is to not push our face into it. One of my teachers said go ahead and follow your desires, but do it with awareness. The unhealthy will naturally fall away.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    #41920
    rosamundi
    Participant

    What an interesting thread! Brave question with thought-provoking responses.

    #41923
    John
    Participant

    It’s funny that this thread got revived with a reply because it actually came to mind recently.

    As I continue my practice, I’m learning to discern the difference between requiring, wanting, and needing.

    We require air, food, water, and safety to survive.

    We can want money, sex, success, and happiness.

    But in reality, there’s nothing that we need.

    Our basic requirements allow us to function. Our wants add variety and spice to life. But the moment those wants become ‘needs’ or make us ‘needy’, we lose our footing and grasp on reality and spiral into stress, anxiety, suffering, and pain.

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by John.
    • This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by John.
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