Dear Kilian:

I noticed that you started a new thread. I hope other members answer you on that thread. You are welcome to post here, on your new thread, and/ or start more new threads, and I hope other members correspond with you on those other threads.

As far as communicating with me, I will reply to you only on this thread. And so, if you have a question for me, or want my input, ask me here. Otherwise, I wish you health and healing in this new year!

anita

Dear Kilian:

You are welcome and thank you for your wishes for me. To answer your question, I need to understand your question, therefore I ask:

1. Is the word spirituality for you the same as the word good?

2. Can you give me your definition of spirituality?

3. Can you give me your definition of arbitrary evil?

(I will be away from the computer for the next 16 hours).

anita

Dear Kilian:

“It would be interesting to know your perspective on how Spirituality can exist alongside the presence of arbitrary evil in this world”, you wrote.

You defined Spirituality as (1) “the trust that something greater than oneself makes the world”, (2) that “what happens in (the world) has some sense rhyme and reason.. that it ticks according to a greater mind”, (3) that the world “moves toward the good”.

You defined arbitrary evil as “children having cancer, the life cycles of parasites that are unnecessarily harmful to its victims, and people’s propensities for evil deeds, sadistic deeds and so on”.

What I believe to be true regarding your definition of spirituality:

#1: I agree- there is “something greater than oneself that makes the world”, and that is why after I die, the world will go on without me in it. Nothing is a more convincing piece of evidence that the world is greater than any one person than the observation that the world does not die a million times a day, even though…  millions of people die every day.

#2: I agree- what happens in the world has some sense, rhyme and reason, it does tick to a greater mind: the rhyme is evident in the seasons, winter, spring, summer and fall, for example. It operates according to some sense and reason, for example, the mountain lion attacks a smaller, weaker deer because it is easier and safer than attacking a big, strong deer.

As to the greater mind, I don’t believe it is a god in the way the bible describes god, a human-like god. As a human being, I can’t observe the appearance of that greater mind, I can only observe the work of this greater mind: I can observe nature. I can investigate the work of this greater mind by applying the scientific method of investigation.

#3: I disagree- the world is not moving toward “the good”- for example,  climate change is evidence that the world is moving toward bad: toward what harms and kills plants, animal and people (air pollution, mega fires, greater hurricanes, etc.).

The idea of good was born in the context of animals living in social groups, where an individual does good for the group and in return, the group does good for the individual. (from coyotes to elk to people). Unfortunately, in human social life, individuals too often do what is bad for the group, disregarding that “sense, rhyme and reason” you mentioned. For example, it makes sense to not pollute the air for the good of the social group, but many individuals choose to unnecessarily pollute the air because polluting the air gives them their individual, temporary pleasure(ex., smoking in the home, around one’s family members), or immediate/ easy financial gain (ex., the oil industry powerful individuals fighting against the development of clean energy sources).

As to arbitrary evil: you mentioned cancer- a lot of cancer is caused by individual disregarding the good of the social group, such as the air pollution I mentioned above. As to the “life cycle of parasites that are unnecessarily harmful to its victims”- I am all for ridding our bodies from parasites, but from the point of view of that greater mind we are discussing, people are not more important than parasites. In that greater mind, parasites have the same right to exist as humans.

As far as “people’s propensities for evil deeds, sadistic deeds”- those behaviors come to be when a child is born into a home (the child’s first social-group) where the individuals within that home (parents, siblings, others) harm the child severely (which goes against that “sense, rhyme and reason” of the greater mind), and some of those severely harmed children then proceed to harm others, some do so sadistically. It is a terrible distortion of that sense-rhyme-and-reason of the greater mind.

anita

Hi Kilian

I heard that the last thoughts one has determine one’s rebirth

The Tibetan: “Liberation in the Intermediate State Through Hearing”) also called Tibetan Book of the Dead does imply Karma is a factor in rebirth.  Perhaps ones Karma could be influenced by ones last thoughts or one last thoughts could be a indication of ones Karma. That said OCD thoughts would not count as last thoughts as they tend to be more surface noise then what one really thinks and believes, ones true thoughts.  That’s even difficult to ‘know‘ for the most enlightened person

Note; I do not believe Karma has anything to do with Justice, Reward, Punishment all of which belong to the world of ego and measurement. Such things don’t exist in nature.

Karma or Action suggest that what we do, who we are has consequence. Kick a rock and you break your toe. Breaking your tow isn’t Karma, though it may be the result of ones Karma. As in what made you think, and act on that thinking, that kicking a rock was a good idea.

For me Karma is related to the idea the “We see/experience the world as we are not as it is“.  Ones karma acting like glasses through which we see and expect to see. Similarly Einstein’s Statement – “No Problem Can Be Solved From The Same Level Of Consciousness That Created It” – ones karma in away is related to one level of consciousness. We are attracted to our level. Thus in the progression of the life cycle – birth – death – rebirth one tendency to to be attracted to what we know, ones level of awareness while fearing the other higher levels .  (even though or maybe because the higher levels are so bright)

I view the life cycle of Birth – Death – Rebirth as the reality of each breathe we take. Meaning each breath is a opportunity to be reborn into a higher level and sadly lower one.  I would argue that every major even minor life change is a kind of dying. Many changes require the letting go of ego, control and that always feels like a dying to the ego. How we manage that change, that death ‘determines’ our ‘Rebirth.

From that perspective if one believes that cycle is repeated after one physically dies one will have had a lot of practice during ones life time to calmly embrace the light and not to fear it. As a last thought that might be a pretty good one.