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Punishing Myself..

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  • #165670
    Sunset
    Participant

    Hi all,

    I’m new to posting on forums but would welcome any advice…

    I was away travelling solo not so long back and as you do, encountered all paths of life. Met some incredible people to some very interesting and to some rather strange.

     

    I’m that bit older so not sure if I’m overreacting but I’ve always been an honest, loyal and do my best to do good by people.

    Along my travels I met a group of people from different backgrounds. Some of us got to know one another and at times separated, crossed paths again and got to know each other more. This was all in a short space of time. Two girls in particular I became friends with and we’d often share a drink and a story. One of the girls expressed that she liked one of the guys and that they had been intimate. She appeared worried because despite being very attracted to him, she didn’t trust his wandering eye. There was nothing to suggest they were in a relationship as we were all just travelling/on holiday and the end was in sight.

    Throughout our travels, some of us got separated and I ended up spending time with this guy. We got on well as friends and enjoyed the chats. One night he kissed me and that led to us kissing again several times. That was the extent of it and thankfully it never progressed further. I never saw my new friend after this as she had gone home but we stayed in occasional contact.

    At the end of the journey, things took a nasty turn and this guy decided he couldn’t stand me. It was out of the blue and he verbally abused me, slated my character and mocked that people liked me and he didn’t and that I couldn’t stand to hear that. Unfortunately at this point I had developed feelings for this guy, despite going no further than kissing. As a result of this, I was deeply upset by his insults and how he destroyed my spirit not to mention ruining the end of my trip. I left feeling gutted, like my confidence had been severely knocked to feeling worthless.

    I’ve always tried my best to be kind to people, never offer a bad word, treat others as I would like to be treated and look after others. I was utterly devastated by this unprovoked attack.

    My predicament is, somewhere along the journey I developed strong feelings for this guy and somehow got wrapped up in the moment. When I came back down to earth, I felt immense guilt and extremely overwhelmed thinking back to this girl confiding in me that she liked him. Only for we got separated and I crossed paths with him and we spent time together, the situation could’ve been avoided. Problem is, since that journey, myself and that girl stayed in touch and became good friends. I feel anxious and overwhelmed with guilt that I kissed him. They are not together as they live hundreds of miles from one another but now and again she expresses how she harbours feelings for him still and wishes something more had progressed between them. She keeps in touch with him. Until recently I was never mentioned and when I was, he referenced me in a really bad way and expressed hoe he did not like me. She checked with me to see why and expressed her concern yet at the same time seemed unimpressed how he spoke about me.

    A part of me feel she knows there may have been some yet I never confirmed it and she didn’t ask. It seems he didn’t either apart from calling me a crud name.

    This guy picked a fight with me out of nowhere that night and I feel it was deliberate and now he wants to sabotage my name to her without explaining what his real problem is.

    I’ve never lied before (white lies excluded) and I’m the type of person that would rather have hurt done to me than hurt someone. I truly love my new friendship with this girl but can’t get over the guilt of kissing him.

    Having heard his latest name calling of me, it has completely unnerved me how he appears to despise me and still does. For this first time in a long time, I felt like that worthless vulnerable mess I was when he first turned on me. The weird thing is, up until that night he thought I was Great, positive and optimistic about life. So much to a point that he criticised my positive outlook. Then bam, he turned at the very end of my journey. That was it, I was cut out and clearly he still hates me for reasons not entirely known.

    I don’t normally have regrets but I value my lovely friendship with this girl and feel it’s not true because all this time on she still seems to like him and I feel I’m harbouring this bit of information. I feel like a fraud and have never broken the rules of sisterhood in the past. It’s nowhere near a cheating scenario however I still feel like crap and wish I never crossed paths with this guy.

    #165686
    gia
    Participant

    Hi Sunset,

    I too am a solo traveller. I recently went on a solo road trip. Probably a bit unlike you, however, I seldom hang out with people I meet; I am happy to say my goodbyes after an activity together, for example.

    That guy comes across as either a sociopath or a psychopath. I was wondering if your guilt was for your hiding the fact that you and he kissed, or was it for the fact that you kissed him while she had confided in you her feelings for him?

    gia

    #165692
    Sunset
    Participant
    1. Hi Gia,

    Thank you for your reply. I think you are correct in describing him. Looking back now, he was a very bitter and negative person. He told him he disliked depressed people and felt he kept meeting lots of them on his travels. I remember thinking he was incredibly judgemental and it was a bit low of him. At that point I probably should’ve known better and removed myself from his company however he seemed to get on quite well with me and for some reason (probably being on my own) I felt drawn to him. I was incredibly hurt, rattled and anxious for a long time after he turned and still to this day, the anxiety sets in. He hated that I got on well with people and nothing fazed me. Now that I think about it, I think he wanted to take me down a peg or two because I was clearly enjoying myself, engaging with others and had a positive attitude towards life. Unfortunately he did take me down and I stupidly let him.

    Moving on from that, yes you’re right, I think it is that she previously confided in me and when we all moved on and I was still there spending time with others (him included) that he moved on to me and I gravitated towards him. I wish I hadn’t and wondered why now. Maybe being in a different country on my own. I just know I started to develop feelings. I often wonder why as he wasn’t a nice person. My predicament is that after our travels this girl kept in touch with me and still to this day talks about him. I’m feeling so guilty that she feels so deeply (from what I’m hearing) about him still while I know I too kissed him yet I can honestly look back and say I’m sure it didn’t stop at me.

    I really appreciate my new-found friendship with this girl and maybe in some ways I ignorantly thought none of us would ever stay in touch beyond our trip however some of us did.

    I just wish she didn’t like him like she did because he’s a terribly negative and bitter person and I only saw the aim of his journey to put a damper on it for others. I can’t say it to her based on my thoughts towards him but I feel in an awkward position and very unnerved that he recently expressed to her that he hates me.

    I don’t get it or why he ever turned on me. He attacked my character and criticised my positivity and made me feel like shit. To add to all that, I now feel like shit that I ever felt anything for him in the first place.

    I guess there are two points to this story. Why this guy did this and secondly that I did keep in touch with this girl and all this time on I know I kissed him and am horrified to hear that she still holds a candle for him. I am disappointed in myself for allowing him get under my skin and allow him make me feel so worthless and gaining a lovely friend from my travels but feeling like I let her down.

    #165694
    gia
    Participant

    Hi Sunset,

    No problem at all.

    I’m pretty sure he’s a sociopath or a psychopath (I don’t know the nuances in how the terms differ). I have experienced being treated in a similar way before, and I have since come to understand, with the maturity through age and introspection, that people like that guy are probably deeply troubled — they tend to be bigoted, harsh, mean, but also (a big flag there), extremely nice and maybe charming initially and/or only on the surface. Let him go. Let him be the person he needs to be at this stage, however long it may be. The way he treated you likely had little, if anything, to do with Sunset — you — by letting him be whoever he is maybe the compassion that you can conjure up for yourself and for him now that it’s over. And thank goodness it is over for you, with him! 🙂

    Regarding your guilt for “letting [your friend who you developed a lovely friendship with] down”, it’s tricky… what I would probably do was to front up gently with her IF you treasure this relationship. Her response may be unpredictable, but if you and the other woman get through this hurdle, the ground for your relationship will be solidified, and these are the kinds of relationships or friendships that are meaningful and more likely to last. Why I think it’s tricky, however, is that I have learnt from my own, at times painful, experience that conversations of this kind (difficult ones) are best had face to face. I wouldn’t do it through a text or facebook message as it is unduly risky — I have lost meaningful friendships with good intentions, but ineffectual communication with texts. 

    Trust yourself and make a decision that feels right. Please don’t feel guilty for having been pulled in by that guy’s facade — people like him are notoriously good at it, and as you wisely reflected, it is not going to stop after you.

    gia

    #165698
    Sunset
    Participant

    Thank you so much Gia! I really appreciate your time to advise and help out. How you describe him is exactly how he was. I always felt when a bunch of us met that he kept me at arm’s length yet I always made an effort to get on with people whose paths I crossed and with frequent path crossing with him I think he eventually warmed to me. He turned on me one night when I became emotional for being away from home and others were lovely to me and could empathise. He treated me like I was the most selfish person in the world for getting upset and belittled me and made out there was something wrong with me. I feel so strange even writing this because it’s the most craziest and horrible reaction I’ve ever encountered from anyone. I questioned myself and asked myself was I odd for being human. It seemed he liked me one way but the minute he saw a bit of vulnerability in me, he tried to drag me down even more rather than show any empathy. I still question it to this day. Despite his horrendous attitude towards me, I still begged him to not be so cruel. In hindsight, that was probably worse because he played on it more. I left to go home after my solo trip in tears at the airport and feeling like I wasn’t worth anything. I know I can be sensitive but this verbal attack was something that really knocked me.

    I completely agree with you about taking the positives. For a long time I looked at it from another angle and took comfort in lessons I had learned from it all. I even took him criticising my positivity as a compliment. I figured that I would rather be annoyingly positive than overwhelmingly negative like him. I smiled when I thought back to that.

    A bit of background on him. He told me he doesn’t have much of A relationship with his parents (his dad more so – feels neglected since he remarried). He said he doesn’t tend to keep friends and doesn’t have any close ones nor does he have much of a relationship with his sibling. I remember feeling empathy towards him & wanting to make him feel someone cared but some days I find it hard to have any pity. I know none of this is directly about me. I think I just get rattled thinking how he seems to despise me so much despite him not having a valid reason.

    Regarding my friend, we actually live in different countries but occasionally talk over text so I don’t see her. We talk about meeting up and visiting one another and I would love that and to continue the contact. I just feel guilty. I had hoped since she went home that she’d meet a lovely guy because she’s such a lovely girl but to my surprise she still longs for her holiday romance. I’m not just saying I had hoped she’d meet someone new because of what happened with me but because I saw a nasty side to him in the end and I wouldn’t want a guy like that for any of my friends. Even if I hadn’t have kissed him I’m sure the outcome would still have been the same and he still would have verbally attacked me and I still would have thought he was an idiot.

    Thank you so much Gia for lending an ear. I appreciate it so much!

    #165744
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Sunset:

    You wrote that he “turned on me one night when I became emotional for being away from home” – a possible explanation for him turning against you is that part of him still longs to have a relationship with his parents and siblings (“He told me he doesn’t have much of A relationship with his parents (his dad more so – feels neglected.. nor does he have much of a relationship with his sibling”). When he witnessed your longing for your family, he became aware of his own, and hated himself for it, and automatically, quickly, he projected that hate to you.

    Such a dynamic is common, and if it is true, or something similar to it is true, his reaction to you getting emotional indeed has nothing to do with you and everything to do with his own life experience, way before he ever met you.

    Regarding your friend, because the kissing him bothers you so much, if I was you, I would tell her, in just the way you shared about it here. Maybe I would share this very thread with her. Actually, I think sharing this thread with her is an excellent idea- it shows your sincerity, that you indeed like your friend, it shows your concern for her, your concerns about her liking this man.

    anita

     

    #166044
    Sunset
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    That is quite possible he did think that.  The impression I got at the time was that he was jealous of my ability to be sociable in a positive way.  I didn’t have anything bad to say about anyone & my outlook was positive.  I remember explaining that being away from home gave me a chance to reflect on all the goodness I had there & all the support of my friends & family.  Travelling alone really gave me insight into this & as I met people, we would all talk about our lives back home & why we were travelling, etc. This must’ve been a conversation I had with this guy at some point because I remember feeling good about my journey & so grateful for everything – a time for reflection.  I had posted a couple of photos up on social media to keep people up to date with my journey & at this point he had befriended me on it & possibly saw the support I had from back home.  The reason I suspect this is because, when he argued with me, he used lines such as “you’re just so used to having everyone tell you you’re great & you can’t handle hearing different & some real truths”.  I was flabbergasted!  I couldn’t understand what he was basing this on.  I had been nothing but polite to him & as far as I was concerned, built a nice friendship with him, never judged him, expressed an interest in his life, etc.  It was the strangest outburst.  Crazy and all as this sounds, I think he liked my positivity and inability to allow much get to me, yet at the same time it irked him that someone could be so optimistic.  Therefore, I believe he wanted to get me on something so when I showed a vulnerable side to myself & became emotional & overwhelmed once, he saw this as an opportunity to kick me while I was down.

    I’m not sure what it was but when this happened, a few of us were together & others were empathetic & showed me comfort.  They explained that they too had also had days where they would become overwhelmed for being away from home, the unknown, the excitement, the uncertainty of what each day would bring) & they understood it.  I tried to brush it off as I felt foolish but I had some lovely caring people with me.  However this guy believed I was selfish & stated that I was “not the only one to be tired and emotional” & that I was all about myself.  I couldn’t believe it & started to feel like I did overact whereas I can honestly say, I did not.  He made me feel that way at the time.  I don’t think he liked that others were sympathetic towards me.  Later I begged him not to be so cruel & said that I didn’t want to part on bad terms.  He was not interested & turned away from me.  I left in floods of tears & he blocked me from everything, social media, phone.  I left without the want to try and talk to him any further.  I just felt utterly devastated by his nastiness & confused by what had just happened.  Looking bad, I believe that when it was just me & him chatting, travelling, he was inclined to be nicer to me & that was a side to him I got to know & liked but as soon as we were within a group with others he was different & aloof with me.

    In terms of my friend, I think she is awesome & even if I didn’t have this confrontation with this guy, I still wouldn’t think he is good for her.  He seemed uncertain about his direction in life but would give off the impression he was in control.  She seemed a bit more certain about her direction but almost like she had her guard up when it came to men & possibly afraid of being hurt.  I don’t believe he could give her the love she needs or wants.  He appeared quite absorbed & I could nearly predict he would leave someone if the going got tough.  In relation to me kissing him, after a few days, I reconsidering not even mentioning it.  She stills appears to hold a torch for him but the distant between them & the lack of direction in his life might be an issue – I don’t know but with me & him it was never, nor would it ever have been anything.  I do remember developing feelings for him at the time & being aware of it but now being at home, in my routine, I can honestly say, he would not be a guy I would normally go for (in every way).  We were different but bonded through travelling & that’s where it would stop.  Then the fight was the final nail in the coffin anyway so I think I owe her the right to decide what she wants to do for herself & give her the opportunity to get to know him better if she feels that strong about him…

     

    #166058
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Sunset:

    Your resolution expressed in your last two lines, acknowledging her “right to decide what she wants to do for herself & give her the opportunity to get to know him better if she feels that strong about him” makes sense to me, seems right.

    You wrote earlier in your last post: “I had some lovely caring people with me.  However this guy believed I was selfish & stated that I was ‘not the only one to be tired and emotional’ & that I was all about myself”-

    It would have been a nice world if everyone in it was “lovely caring people”. Unfortunately this is not the world we live in. What happens so very often is that a person is hurt, let’s say, this man was hurt by his parents. Next he hurts another person, passing on the hurting. This is, unfortunately, business as usual. And this seems like what happened here.

    When he stated that you are “not the only one to be tired and emotional”- reads to me that his parent/s accused him, when he was a child, of being … tired and emotional, disapproved of him crying, or expressing hurt in any way. When you were emotional, you behaved in the way that was unjustly denied in his early life, causing him understandable hurt and anger. Anger at this parents. It is that anger that he projected at you, as if you were his parents denying him his right to act emotionally.

    I hope you recover from this experience. Such an experience, in one form or another, is likely to happen again. Be prepared: people’s behaviors with you, often enough, are not about you, not something you caused, but something established in their minds long before they met you.

    anita

    #166082
    Sunset
    Participant

    Thank you Anita and a lot of what you say makes total sense. I think back to conversations we had and not one story he told me about his life was spoken with positivity. After we had this run in, I left to come home and for a long time I never blamed him and felt great empathy for him as I did truly believe there was more to the reaction and it was not directly all about kw being “tired and emotional”. I took comfort in this and tried to figure out what I learned from it and in my mind wished better for him wherever life would lead him. I suppose the latest trigger (in my case) of anxiety is that almost a year on, (and only for that girl is still in touch with him) recently referred to me whilst remarking on some old pictures with us all, was when he referred to me still in a horrible light and still feels that same bitterness towards me.

    To be honest, I got a bit of a shock when she first told me but as that last few days have passed, I’m once again reminding myself that it goes deeper than me and that I was just the target at the time (possibly like many others that encountered him in a similar situation). At the end of the day, I’m quite content with my life and remind myself to count my blessings and appreciate all and everyone I have therefore that helps me reflect on things more clearly….along with all your help too. Thanks to you both!

    #166104
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Sunset:

    You are welcome. If I was you, I would stay away from any contact with him and people like him in your future life, people who will try to hurt you because … someone else or other people have hurt them in the past. Once a person is displaying aggression toward you, as this man has, the correct response, I believe, it to disengage.

    anita

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