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Should I keep fighting?

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  • January 25, 2018 at 6:35 am #188883
    Jen
    Participant

    Hi Mark,

    Do you think that if I walk away from our relationship we could still have each other in our lives? I wonder if that’s possible. But then again, it takes a long time for me to move on from romantic relationships and I know that I won’t start dating again anytime soon. But I just see him as someone that I want in my life always. I struggle with this idea a lot.

    thanks!

    January 25, 2018 at 7:09 am #188889
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Jen:

    You are welcome. You mentioned yesterday that he is on Zoloft. I remember when I got on Zoloft I felt such a relief because my distressing emotions were almost… eliminated. It was like a pair of scissors cut off my emotions and I was not troubled by them. My psychiatrist at the time suggested that indeed he heard other people report this to him. This may explain him not feeling in love with you, especially every minute of the day, as he said (an impossibility on Zoloft or not, to feel anything every minute of the day, that is).

    Maybe he is addicted to fighting and making up, there are highs in the making up that will fuel such addiction, or habit. Not a good idea of course to engage such habit.

    If it is your lack of anger that bothers him, or what he may feel is repressed, unexpressed anger, I don’t know about it, don’t have the information about the interactions between the two of you. He may have a valid point, I don’t know.

    Regarding the two examples you gave, both are of irrational decisions, correct? Hi decision to stay away from family and friends because he is depressed is not necessarily irrational. It may be a rational choice if his family and friends are promoting his depression.

    anita

    January 25, 2018 at 8:17 am #188905
    Jen
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    That definitely resonates. For the ayahuasca ceremony, he stopped taking Zoloft a couple of weeks prior and then paused after for about a month after. When I think about it, this time was crucial for us to form the bond we still have. I think right after the ceremony my feelings started to grow. He was definitely different, without the medicine. But when the depression hit again he went back to it and I supported him because his health was more important to me. Later we both talked on how the medicine affects him and he is very aware that the medicine makes him feel numb in terms of emotions and he feels apathetic to everything. Which is why his idea is to go to a therapist and combine it with the medicine. He wants to stop taking it in the future, which is why he is trying to become more spiritual and to gain perspective on his condition. But I have seen both sides of him, with and without the medicine and even with the withdrawal symptoms,  it was very difficult.

    When we talked about the fighting and making up he understood that it was not healthy and that I was not going to engage in that. He thought I was holding back anger, but I assured him that was not true. I am just simply not resentful and he has never done anything that hurt me. I did communicate being bothered one time that he canceled a date, he never did it again, or one time that he didn’t return a call, he never did it again. For what I understand, he is more used to having fights than having a peaceful time.

    I agree that they may be irrational both, but he feels that one is and the other is not.

    The thing is he is very confused and I was very clear, now I feel confused. At times I feel that I should leave him alone so he can deal with all his stuff and find his happiness. But at the same time, I love him deeply and I wonder if leaving him alone is going to do him any good. Right now I am focusing on myself, waiting for him to reach out, giving him the space he wants and going slow. Having this post is really what is making me think about our relationship.

    Thank you for sharing your experience with zoloft. I really never thought that it could be affecting his feelings before, until we talked about it a few weeks ago.

    January 25, 2018 at 8:34 am #188909
    Mark
    Participant

    Hi Jen,

    First of all, good for you for taking care of yourself.

    Second, you asked that if you walk away from a romantic relationship that you two still can have some sort of relationship?

    I see it takes both parties to figure out what sort of relationship that they want.

    It seems with him, he wants a “loose” non-demanding, uncommitted relationship with benefits.

    You want more of a traditional, committed, romantic boyfriend-girlfriend relationship.

    You two can negotiate the kind that works for both of you … or not.

    The thing with “relationship” is that we each come to the table with a set of expectations on what that looks like and how the other should behave.

    The work is to figure out and agree between the two people on having a mutually agreed on way of relating.

    It is hard to determine whether or not keep apart is a better way of going until you actually try it.  However, it is good to be clear on what you want for yourself and whether or not you will be getting that by staying together.

    Make sense?

    Mark

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Mark.
    January 25, 2018 at 8:59 am #188919
    Jen
    Participant

    Hi Mark,

    Thanks!

    Yes I did asked to him how we could have a friendship. I also receive a lot of support from him and I value my friendships a lot. But we decided we can try to have a more serious relationship before giving up on that. We made short-term commitments. Here is the thing, when I sit down with him to talk and try to negotiate what can be the best for us, I never get resistance from him. The only time that happened it was when he was in the middle of a depressive episode and kept saying that he hated himself and wanted to be alone. I couldn’t walk away, it didn’t feel right for me.

    He does want what you say, it would be ideal for him. But I want more “us”, so we are trying to find a middle ground. So yes, we sat down, talked, had ideas and it seemed like we both wanted to work on it. I am just afraid that this goes downhill and that in order for me to be safe,  I feel like I need to be prepared for anything. hence, I am trying to have very clear what I want for myself so that I don’t accommodate to what he wants. Right now, he is traveling for work. So I am taking this time to have this post, reflect and be sure of what I want. I am also regaining energy and figuring out my own needs. Hopefully, when we meet again and if it is necessary I can feel more strong to let him go if that’s what he wants, being sure that it will be the best for both him and I.

    Thanks for your advice, is important to me to have a man’s perspective.

     

    January 25, 2018 at 9:14 am #188927
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Jen:

    Having the time and the inclination, I read and re-read all your posts on this thread, only your posts, so to no be influenced by my previous replies or others’ replies.

    Reads to me that you have been way more clear and well than he has been. Problem is, as you wrote, “The thing is he is very confused and I was very clear, now I feel confused.”- this is the key sentence for me, in your whole thread.

    Losing one’s clarity is not a good thing. And it is you trying to make this relationship work that is causing this confusion. You have been sacrificing your clarity of thinking and feeling for some time, so to make this relationship work.

    The relationship is not working, no benefit to your sacrifice. I think he needs quality psychotherapy. He is too troubled to be able to conduct a healthy relationship, a commitment with you, or with any woman. Reads like a decent man to me, only not in that place of readiness, not even close.

    If you can handle having a friendship with him, it being not a relationship, probably a good idea. I don’t know if you can though. You have strong feelings for him and they may not allow the distance required for a friendship.

    I think that letting go of the relationship is the thing for you to do, for your own clarity, for your own well-being. The  option to this, as I see the situation, is that you will continue to get confused, not well and he will stay as confused and unwell as he is.

    anita

    January 25, 2018 at 9:56 am #188945
    Mark
    Participant

    I admire that you are watching out for yourself Jen.

    we sat down, talked, had ideas and it seemed like we both wanted to work on it. I am just afraid that this goes downhill and that in order for me to be safe,  I feel like I need to be prepared for anything. hence, I am trying to have very clear what I want for myself so that I don’t accommodate to what he wants.

    It sounds like you have the wisdom from your experience of him on what he says can be different from how he actually acts.  I think that is common.  Most of us say things to accommodate, appease others by thinking that is the right thing to say but in reality we don’t behave according to the words we spout.

    Most people live unconsciously so they don’t even realize that despite their best intentions and what they have said, they behave differently.  So when you said you will be talking to him when he returns from his trip in order to find out what he wants, be aware of that.

    I encourage you to continue to determine on what you want and to cultivate your strength (integrity) in doing what is best for you.

    Let us know how things go.
    Mark

    January 27, 2018 at 8:47 am #189307
    Jen
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thank you for the advice. It resonates with everything I am thinking now. I was taught to believe in love and that love can conquer everything. Right now, I am redirecting that love to myself, knowing that my love for myself can conquer everything. I am going to give us the chance to navigate the short term commitments we agreed on and see if he can start helping himself. If this doesn’t go in a way that makes me feel calm and in peace, I am going to let go of the relationship. I just wish I could find a way to keep him in my life.

     

     

    Hi Mark,

    Thank you. He usually sticks to his word. But my insecurities are making me think that this is not going to work. So far, he has communicated with me as usual and we have plans to meet soon. I also promised that I was going to communicate more with him, which I have been doing. But anyways, what I have been reflecting on a lot, is that if he really needs me out of the picture so he can work on himself I will let him and I know that better versions of both of us will come out of this, that we will learn. It is hard to let go and since we haven’t really broken up, I am still giving this a chance. While I do this, I am cultivating my strength and grounding myself so that I can be prepared. It’s hard. But I appreciate every advice and I will definitely tell you what happens.

     

     

    Thanks for the support.

    January 27, 2018 at 9:55 am #189311
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Jen:

    You are welcome. Your thinking reads clear to me in your last post.

    You wrote that you were taught that loves conquers all. I think love is an opportunity for two loving partners to conquer a whole lot. It takes love and partnership, two people helping each other. Reads to me that you have in you what it takes to be a good resource for him, a good partner. But he has to see you as that good resource and be motivated to use this good resource (use not as in abuse or misuse, but in a win-win way).

    Like any resource, if a person doesn’t value it as a resource, the person will not be motivated to use it for one’s advantage.

    I hope to read from you again.

    anita

    March 25, 2018 at 1:26 pm #199393
    Jen
    Participant

    Hi Everyone,

     

    I just felt the need to update on this.

    We broke up last week.

    We gave it a chance and we both reached our short-term commitments. But he screwed up and that broke my trust and when I gave him the emotional responsibility of helping me re-build that trust, he felt he did not want to be emotionally responsible for me at all. That gave me a light, that I can’t have a relationship with someone like that. I wonder if I shouldn’t have put that responsibility on him, but I couldn’t figure out how to trust him again all on my own and I saw myself walking a very dark path all alone, I did not want that at all. So I was strong and talked with him about it, he said that I was right, that he didn’t want to be emotionally responsible for me, that he was always going to disappoint me and that he only had pain to offer. All his words really broke me, I eventually asked him what he wanted it to do then, (because for a while I felt like he wanted me to break things so that he didn’t feel guilty), he said he wanted to be alone I said okay and that was it.

    I felt like asking for another chance, but couldn’t do it. I also felt like we still have so much to learn together, but is not going to work if only I work on this. It has been devastating and I am unsure of how to navigate this as right now. I feel frustrated, rejected, sad, angry… all the bad things I don’t want for me. He hasn’t made it any easier, he keeps contacting me, I guess to not feel guilty, I am not replying, he only wants to make sure I am okay and all I said is that I will be but that it will take time for me to heal. I feel like he wants to have me on hold in case he changes his mind. In this time, he has been doing all the things I asked for before, he communicates, tells me about his life, his work, his stuff. I don’t know why, but I am letting things flow and trying to accept them with love as they come. I can’t tell him to stop talking to me, I can’t tell him to leave me alone. I don’t feel capable of doing this. I am just very confused on what to do and while I deal with my pain and try to heal, I wonder if I am ever going to be okay, if this pain will ever go away.

    Any words of encouragement are well appreciated.

    ps: I am trying to feel excited for what the future holds for me.  I know that walking out of this was good for me. It was just not the right moment probably, it caught me in a bad time and everything feels like too much.

     

    Thank you

     

    March 25, 2018 at 3:55 pm #199417
    Mark
    Participant

    Good for you Jen.  You have struggled with this relationship for a long time.  You have thought about it and processed a lot around it.

    You have made your decision based on such long and thoughtful consideration.  Each of you made your decision.

    Best to you for sticking with your decision and for the well being that comes with that decision.

    Mark

    March 25, 2018 at 6:15 pm #199431
    Jen
    Participant

    Thank you, Mark

    I am healing and opening space for the light to come

    March 26, 2018 at 7:28 am #199533
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear  Jen:

    The way  I see  it is  the following: this man has a core belief that he is a bad  person and that as a bad person “he was always  going to disappoint (anyone) and that he only had pain to offer.” This is why he expressed to you earlier that he hates himself, he hates the bad person he believes he  is.

    This core belief existed before he met you. At one point he stopped taking Zoloft, for the purpose of attending the ceremony you mentioned. That and the ceremony itself was a sort of an awakening for him, an awakening of emotions otherwise numb. Shortly after the ceremony, still off Zoloft, he told you that you “shouldn’t be afraid of falling in love and that there  was nothing wrong with that”-

    Well, his statement was based on that temporary Zoloft-free, ceremony-inspired experience and he  couldn’t maintain it. It couldn’t have been maintained. Even with intense therapy, there wasn’t enough time for him to be able to translate his intent and sentiment into ongoing behavior.

    Hating himself, believing he is harmful, no wonder he wants  to be alone, so to not harm. He calls you to ask how you are doing… somehow he is not completely convinced that he is a bad person, at least not from a distance. He needs this distance so to… protect you from him, is one element in this.

    I am glad you are  back to your thread with your update and any future posts.

    anita

     

     

    March 26, 2018 at 8:18 am #199545
    Jen
    Participant

    Thank you, Anita

    This sounds so much like him. I am sad that no matter how many times I said it, he never really believed he is an amazing and beautiful person. I know he cares for me and this is why he still contacts me, he won’t rest until he knows I am okay.

    as part of my healing, I forgave him and forgave myself for the mistakes we made. I know this decision was good for him, maybe it will be good for me in the future, right now it doesn’t feel that way, but I am trying my best to overcome the pain.

     

    thanks!

    March 26, 2018 at 8:42 am #199551
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Jen:

    You are welcome.

    I hope you do overcome this pain. There is nothing at all that you could have done to change his long-ago established belief about himself. No words or actions on your part have that power. What you needed was a commitment of a loving man. While he has love  in him, and  you have seen it in his eye3s, heard it  in his voice… he is incapable of providing you with what you need. Unfortunately for you and for him.

    anita

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