December 23, 2019 at 6:47 pm #329205ValoraParticipant
As time’s gone on he’s stated he dislikes my friend [especially after that dinner, obviously, which my friend still doesn’t believe my fiance doesn’t want his friendship. I’ve told him to his face twice and my friend still acts like they’re best buddies and nothing happened] and while he won’t tell me to stop being friends with him, my fiance does hope I walk away from my friend.
First, I want to say that I think it’s awesome that you and your fiance are so trusting of each other. That’s so rare these days and just really, really special. You two sound like you have a wonderful relationship. With that said, you know that your fiance ultimately doesn’t like your friendship with this guy, and even though he won’t tell you that you cannot be friends with him (which he shouldn’t do, so that’s good of him), wouldn’t it be better to distance yourself from this guy for your fiance’s comfort, given how he feels about him and that his feelings are certainly justified? I know things seem all good and he’s very understanding, but I feel like things like this have a way of chipping away at relationships… no matter how understanding your fiance is, it doesn’t stop underlying resentment from building (not that he will ever resent you over it intentionally, but sometimes those feelings sneak up on you). So I think you may need to factor that into your decision.
I also have to ask… why do you want to attend a party that your fiance is banned from attending?
Very fair point about the girlfriend, though I should point out we’ve been friends for over a year and have always acted this way. His girlfriend hasn’t been dating him long, she was one of the friends we hung around with for the same amount of time, and she’s seen [and commented on] our friendship.
Right, BUT he was single during that time and your fiance said he was okay with it, so as far as you both knew, it wasn’t hurting anyone. Now it IS hurting someone, and most people he dates are not going to be okay with the flirtation you two have, even though it’s your dynamic with him. When one friend starts dating, things have to change for the comfort of the new person in the relationship. And HE should have been the one that changed it, especially if you didn’t even know he had a girlfriend. He should stop flirting with other girls out of respect for his new girlfriend since it does make her uncomfortable. And no matter how comfortable your fiance says he is with your flirtation because he trusts you, I’m willing to bet he’d be relieved if it stopped, too.
We still sit together when we go out places. I’ve deliberately waited for his girlfriend to take the seat next to him, and he’ll get all confused. Twice since we found out they were dating he’s looked at me all sad and asked why I didn’t sit next to him, and once [at her house I should add] when everyone else got up for food [I stayed in my seat because I wasn’t hungry] he took our friends seat next to mine and moved it so close to me he was practically in my lap. [no joke, I asked the person sitting across from us at the table if there was no room and she replied “oh no, there was enough room to put another chair between your friend and the person next to him] I know I’m not defending his actions very well, I’m mostly trying to say it’s a very new relationship and he’s acting like they’re not dating outside of walking beside her when we’re in a group.
I think this is my point, he’s acting like they’re not dating outside of walking beside her, and that is SO disrespectful. All of his behavior towards you is disrespectful towards her and speaks VOLUMES about his character (negatively). Is it possible that you don’t want to really see that and instead defend him because you like the attention he’s still giving you? These are actions that really shouldn’t be defended. He’s dating someone else while treating you like he’s dating you while you have a fiance. There are blurred lines all over the place, and usually when relationships are new is when couples are all over each other, so this whole thing really is quite weird, and it really feels like it’s some sort of game (and I know you likely don’t want to hear that, but something feels off).
Reading your above post, I’ve met a number of narcissists and while you make a good point, he is different from them, which is why I hesitate to conclude he is one.
I can tell you, I’ve met narcissists that are what you have described. I’ve dated one. I defended him fiercely too because I believed him and then found out I was wrong, so this is why I’m saying just proceed with caution because sometimes our feelings can cloud our intuition, and I’m not entirely sure you’re being honest with yourself about your feelings, even though I DO think you’re trying to be. You seem very aware, but these guys can fool even the most self-aware women sometimes and you’ve admitted you like the attention he gives you so there might be some part of your mind that is blocking yourself from seeing just how bad the bad is (even though you do see the faults) because your mind and self-esteem are benefiting from the way he’s acting, even though it’s ultimately hurting other people.
I think the most telling thing will be how he reacts when you tell him you want to back off. I’d tell him you want to be friends but don’t want to be touchy/flirty at all any more out of respect for your significant others (even though your fiance says it’s okay with it) and see how he reacts to that. If he flips out… red flag.December 23, 2019 at 7:21 pm #329207NekoshemaParticipant
Regarding the party [because a lot of people including K and B asked about that] it’s because all my friends will be there. I’m not 100% comfortable going since I have a pretty good feeling of what’ll happen, but of the people going, two live at the apartment [friend and roommate] so they have to go, then there’s girlfriend and work friend, and I’m mostly going for work friend because she’ll be sitting in a corner while friend socializes with his high school friends [he always forgets about work friend, girlfriend and myself when his older friends are around, though I’m a little curious how he’ll treat his girlfriend in this situation] As for their relationship [brace yourself for this shock] he doesn’t like her. He’s told me before she even asked her out how annoying he finds her, and when I asked how their relationship was going his response was [and this was the only time he’s called her this] “my parents love her. She’s the favourite out of all my girlfriends.” then she walked away and he added, “sorry about that.” then quickly changed the subject. So while he hasn’t said, “I don’t actually like her.” I find their lack of chemistry and his actions towards her odd. Other friends find it odd, regulars and coworkers find it odd, you’re preaching to the choir regarding their relationship. I’m just dropping the subject and waiting for one of them to snap [and honestly, I don’t know who’ll break first, he seems to have very little patience for her yet his parent’s aren’t harping on him anymore, and she’s over the moon she’s got a boyfriend, especially since, like I mentioned earlier, a lot of girls like him.] I am taking a step back regarding his physical closeness, but I still don’t want to lose him as a friend. As for the flirting, I’m trying to do it less, but I’m bad at flirting, as is he, and we didn’t realize that’s what we were doing until people pointed it out, so it’s become our default. [and I know that could be an act, but he’s told me stories about his terrible flirting, his friends have told me stories of his bad flirting, and I’ve seen him try to flirt with girls he liked. He’s bad.]
Do you feel I should address my concerns to him? [not about the relationship, about our friendship and his questionable behaviour] or should I just quietly bow out and hope distance fixes things?December 23, 2019 at 7:40 pm #329209ValoraParticipant
Distance almost never fixes things because then the person has no idea what they’ve done. Distance is avoidance. The way to fix things is by being assertive, so I definitely think you should address your concerns with him and see what he says/does. If he reacts in an understanding way and then changes his behavior, that shows that he respects you and really is a good guy at heart. If he reacts very badly in the way that you’ve seen him react with others, that should send a clear message of who he actually is. This includes if he blows up at you and then apologizes later, that’s still a big red flag.
I think it would be healthy for both of you to back off a little because, not only will your fiance be relieved (even if he won’t tell you that directly), I don’t think your friend is ever going to find himself in a healthy relationship with someone he truly likes as long as your friendship keeps the dynamic it currently has, so it would be good for him too if you two backed off from the physical touch and flirtiness, and it’ll probably seem weird at first because it’s a dynamic change, but I can see it being better for everyone involved.
I think it also makes sense that he’s basically with her just so his family will stop bugging him, but that still doesn’t make it okay for him to act the way he has been. Hopefully he will change that behavior.December 24, 2019 at 9:19 am #329289anitaParticipant
You wrote in your post to me that your mother will be visiting you next month, and that if you told her that you are not comfortable with her in your life (this is what your friend suggested that you tell her), then her response will be that she will probably hit you (“I know exactly what will happen, she.. probably hit me”), something she has done before.
You wrote that in the past, your panic attacks “caused my mother to hit me and tell me to ‘stop making a scene'”, something she has done repeatedly (“Later, rinse, repeat”).
Notice I am not mentioning your mother’s other behaviors, and I am not mentioning other family members because reads to me that you sort of multi task, cognitively, that is: your thoughts are all over the place, involving multiple people and topics. So what I am doing is pointing a figurative flashlight on limited parts of the whole full-of-people-and-details picture that you presented.
Here is my input then: if you are still afraid that your mother will hit you, it is a no-brainer that you shouldn’t be in her company at all, and like your friend suggested, you should not have her visit you in your home.
It is also clear to me at this point that even though you are tickled by the fact that your flirtatious friendship with your friend bothers his new girlfriend/ our co-worker whom you greatly dislike, and even though you are very flattered by his attention to you and his expressed preference of you over the woman you dislike, it is better that you end your friendship with him in a .. friendly kind of way. It is a better choice because your flirtatious relationship with this man is troubling to your fiancé, soon to be husband.
You and your soon to be husband should be a team. The team is the inner circle that should be your top priority. Keep in your life the people who benefit the team and keep out of your life the people that harm the team. Because your friend has harmed your soon-to-be husband, he has harmed the team.
anitaDecember 24, 2019 at 7:15 pm #329353NekoshemaParticipant
I actually was talking to my work friend today, I asked her honest opinion on our friend and she essentially ord-vomited all the same issues I’ve been having. A few coworkers overheard us and were like “are you talking about friend? yeah, he acts really strange.” then listed things they observed how he treats me and my work friend, also noting how he treats his girlfriend is very cold. I was speaking with his roommate who said he didn’t notice any of this, but he doesn’t hang around us as much, and apparently he’s very affectionate with the girlfriend when they’re alone. I am worried she’s dealing with similar problems I dealt with when I was with my ex, but I’m also worried I’ve been making a big deal over nothing. Roommate said he would observe our friends behaviour [and he does agree he can go a little overboard with his white knight complex and will act like a chivalrous knight and it comes off domineering and intimidating] but we should explain to him one thing we’re concerned about then wait until we bring up another issue. If we approach him in a group or give him a list of problems, he will feel attacked and lash out verbally. So I’m figuring out the best way to approach him and will be talking to him about our biggest grievance when I see him either next week or the week after [depends on right time and how comfortable I feel] I will be stepping back from our dynamic, and possibly boundaries will help.
Thanks again for your input [as well as everyone else, it was very helpful]December 24, 2019 at 11:37 pm #329381RicardoParticipant
True story love. Im crying.December 25, 2019 at 6:30 am #329399anitaParticipant
You are welcome. Regarding his “white knight complex and will act like a chivalrous knight”- I don’t think the image of a chivalrous knight includes flirting and making sexual comments to a woman engaged to be married (you). I suppose some of his behaviors are chivalrous, other behaviors are not.
You’ve been asking the opinions and observations of multiple people about him (your most recent post): “my work friend.. I asked her honest opinion on our friend.. A few coworkers.. listed things they observed how he treats me… his roommate.. said he would observe our friend’s behavior”-
-because you don’t trust your own evaluation of this man, is it, which is the point I made to you in my very first reply to you in this thread.
To form your own evaluation of this man and answer the question in the title of your thread without further input by other people, make a short and simple list of pros and cons to keeping this man as your friend. Don’t make it complicated and therefore confusing by adding to many details and angles. Instead, stick to the basics. If you want to try this basic pros and cons list here, please do.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by anita.