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Sometimes it crumbles in all ways

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  • #379167
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Elie,

    how are you? I’d like to address something which might be stopping you from continuing the conversation here. In your previous thread, you wrote:

    Eventually ends up making me feel like I’m not capable of being understood due to my own complications inside. And always have deeper feelings beyond what people try to comfort me by.

    On this thread, you reached out for help again, expressed your pain, but you didn’t describe the reasons for your pain. It took several rounds for me to understand roughly what the problem is, to sort of pinpoint what the dynamic is that’s causing you pain. You were thrilled that I “figured it out” (Yes that is very spot on as I’d say, I love how you could figure it out). Perhaps for you it meant that finally, someone understands what you’re trying to say. Because in the past you had the experience of people not understanding you “due to your own complications inside”.

    But when I mentioned it wasn’t easy to figure it out because you were mysterious, and Anita mentioned that you express yourself in a vague manner, perhaps you got the impression again that you’re not understood, or that you’re criticized for being you, for expressing yourself the way you do. So this might have felt like another rejection for you, similar to what you’ve already experience in the past, with your parents or other people.

    I’d like to apologize if I’d hurt you with my remark. I realize now it might have not been on purpose that you express yourself vaguely, and that you talk more about your feelings and impressions and less about the “facts” of what’s going on. It does make it harder for others to understand – specially people who don’t know you – but it’s your style. So I’d like to invite you to keep sharing here, even if you can’t express it super clearly and factually.

    So far you’ve shared that your parents are rather materialistically oriented and have trouble understanding that you don’t have the same ideas about what an ideal job or career means. They put pressure on you and your brother, and it causes both of you stress and harms your well-being. It appears your brother is trying to please them, but he’s breaking down. With your choice of studies, are you too trying to please them? Is it something they think is best for your future career, or it’s something closer to your heart? Please share more if you feel like.

     

    #379444
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Elie:

    Being vague is the imprecise and unclear use of language, opposite to being clear and specific. Sometimes people are purposefully vague, wanting to confuse a person. Sometimes people are vague because they learned to be vague early on, as children.

    Here is a scenario to explain how a child can learn to be vague: a mother and her seven year old girl are invited to dinner at aunt Suzi’s house. The aunt serves a carrot cake as dessert and the girl exclaims: ‘this is the best carrot cake in the world!’ Later back home, the mother says to the girl with hurt voice and angry voice: ‘you told aunt Suzi that her carrot cake is the best in the world, what about my carrot cake, I thought you liked my carrot cake best in the world! I work so hard to please the people I love, but no appreciation for me!’  The girl is thinking: I am a bad girl, I hurt my mommy, I said the wrong thing. I must never do that again!

    Next, aunt Suzi visits the girl’s home. Knowing how much the girl liked her carrot cake earlier, she brings with her another carrot cake. Serving the cake at the end of dinner, the girl eats and says nothing, she likes the cake but not as much as before because she is now anxious, she is worried. Aunt Suzi asks: what happened, don’t you like my cake?

    The girl wants to say the right thing to her aunt, but she is afraid to say the wrong thing in regard to her mother, who’s there listening, so, she does not give a clear answer. She does not answer: I like the cake! or,  I don’t like the cake! Instead, she is vague, she gives a non-answer: the cake is orange, or she may shift the topic from cake to carrots and say: I like carrots, or she may shift the topic and turn from an answer to a question: why do rabbits like carrots?

    Let’s look at two examples of your  vagueness taken from your original post:

    Example 1: “It’s truly devastating sometimes. Not because of the simple disappointments you have of yourself, but when you see your dear one’s struggling, trying and being disappointed, you’re helpless to do anything. And then you have to take care of yourself, these are the trying times for me”. These are the six  general, vague expressions:  (1) “simple disappointments”: what kinds, in what areas of life, when, where.. any example?  (2) “dear one’s struggling, trying and being disappointed”- who is the dear one? struggling how? trying to do what? being disappointed how?, etc., (3) “helpless to do anything”- what did you want to do to help? what happened when you tried to help?…, (4) “you have to take care of yourself”- in what ways: feed yourself? find a job? make friends?.., (5) “these are trying times”: in what ways are these trying times?

    Example 2: “I always keep reminding myself how no matter what I have to keep pushing through, trying for the next thing, then the next thing, and then the next thing, because giving up will always stop me in the tracks and the pain catches up with me.”- (1) “keep pushing through”- what/how/when/where? (2) “trying for the next thing”- what next thing and what was the previous thing?, (3) “giving up”- giving up what? (4) “the pain”- what kind of pain, what is the nature of your pain?

    Following your original post, in my first reply to you, I suggested what your story might be, best I was able to figure, adding detail to your general, vague story. You replied regarding the truth or lack of truth of the story I presented: “It is true somewhat“. The “somewhat” cancels the “true” and makes your answer a non-answer.

    Later I asked you: “are you working hard for your family members..?”. Your answer: “It is somewhat that, but also its the other way around“. The “somewhat” and “the other way around” cancel that “it is” and make your answer another non-answer.

    Later I presented to you 7 clearly stated points and asked you: “Is my understanding above (1-7) accurate?” You answered my question only in regard to the 1st item: “Yes it is but also not entirely“, you did not specify the “not entirely” and therefore, the “not entirely” cancels the “yes” and makes this yet another non-answer.

    You did bring up one specific item and that is that you and your family struggle in the area of career and material things, but when I asked you on the matter, you shifted topics, from the topic of material things to the topic of emotional states: “however.. I am more worried on the emotional states of myself and everyone I love”.

    When I asked you about the topic of your parents never understanding you, you shifted topics, from the topic of your parents (never understanding you) to the topic of friends: “My parents never understood me. Yes…However, I’ve had and tried making a lots of friends“.

    In summary: it is and would be frustrating for anyone seeking to understand you, to be given non-answers and for you to shift topics. Please consider making your communication clear, specific and honest, at least in the context of interactions with some people, so to make your life way better than it is now. The “complications inside” that you mentioned, will be simplified if you change your communication from vague and complicated to clear and simple, best you can.

    If you are unable to do so, please consider psychotherapy so to look into what happened in your childhood that put a stop to what was then your spontaneous, simple and direct communication. I wish you well!

    anita

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by .
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