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Struggling with Friends and this Political Climate

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  • #366963
    nycartist
    Participant

    I’m having some trouble navigating some friendships in this intense political climate. For the record, I’m pretty liberal, and have been having some major anxiety about this election and in general these past few years. I am not writing this to get into any political debates on this forum, but just to give a background of where I stand. Anyway, I was on Facebook and had been posting my feelings about politics on there somewhat frequently. I feel like I can’t be silent when certain things happen, and I was taking to social media to voice my feelings/frustrations. (BIG MISTAKE).

    One of my best and oldest friends personally confided in me and told me she has become a Trump supporter and felt personally attacked when I would post my feelings about Trump and his supporters. I took it very much to heart because I don’t want to generalize and didn’t want to offend her. I toned down my posts. Then ANOTHER friend made some comments on a post of mine a little while after (which was not attacking Trump or his supporters, it was merely a post stating what I thought was positive about Biden). This other friend and I had a phone conversation after her comment and she unloaded similar feelings to me about feeling like I’m attacking her and anyone who thinks like her. I again tried to listen and explain my feelings one on one. It worked out ok with both friends, but there’s definitely a tension there. In the meantime, I’ve completely deactivated my Facebook account and I just feel disgusted by this whole thing.  It hurts to feel like two of the people I’ve known for a very long time can get this impression of me that I feel isn’t accurate, or misinterpret what I’ve said in my posts.

    I am frustrated because on the one hand, I feel so compelled to speak out as I feel like this country is at a crucial turning point. On the other hand, if me speaking out can offend even my closest friends, I hate to imagine what others were feeling by seeing my posts. I have a very long history in my life of being told my opinion doesn’t matter, I don’t count, and to shut up. It’s taken me my whole life to feel confident in voicing how I feel. Now I’m feeling stifled again and like I have to walk on eggshells and not speak up when I feel so badly that this is a time I need to speak up. I just don’t know how to navigate these friendships which feel strained at the moment, but also be true to myself. At the moment things are ok with both friends, we’ve talked it over and agree no matter what happens it wont’ affect our friendship. I think these conversations, while uncomfortable, are probably good for growth. I just feel a bit lost on what matters more, being true to myself or trying so hard to preserve these friendships that I feel are at a fundamental crossroads in a way. These long term friends and I have all grown up and perhaps we are not as compatible as before. (Not that everyone needs to agree with me, but in speaking to them, I’m seeing some very fundamental things we don’t see eye to eye on and I’m trying not to view them differently, as I’m sure they’re trying not to view me differently). What crazy times we are living in….

    #366969
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear nycartist:

    I never considered myself a liberal and I ignored politics before Trump. Now I am a liberal and I can’t ignore politics. Trump, a dictator-in-progress + the pandemic + accelerated climate change (the current intense,  prolonged fires and hurricane) + the civil unrest and  divisiveness– all these together make 2020 the single most mind boggling year, and by far, the most dangerous year in my lifetime.

    You wrote that you shared your feelings about Trump on Facebook. I assume that you shared that he is to the country (and the world). One of your best and oldest friends confided in you that she has become a Trump supporter and that she “felt personally attacked” by you when you posted about Trump. You then toned down your messages about Trump, and following a post you made about Biden, another friend told you that she too felt that you were “attacking her and anyone who thinks like her”-

    – these two friends.. they don’t feel attacked by Trump (The Danger). They feel attacked by a person pointing to the danger, saying: watch out, Danger!

    It is similar to Trump attacking Fauci/ science who point out to the real and present danger (ex. the virus, fires), while encouraging the spread of the virus and the fires.

    “on one hand, I feel so compelled to speak out as I feel this country is at a crucial turning point. On the other hand, if me speaking out can offend even my closest friends, I hate to imagine what others were feeling by seeing my posts”-

    – personally, if my speaking out about the danger of Trump would make any difference in removing him and his allies from the White House and keeping him away, I would gladly offend anyone and everyone. I would gladly lose friends. I would gladly sacrifice much more than friendships for the betterment of the country and the world.

    Problem is.. posting on Facebook and elsewhere, talking to people who support Trump makes no difference. Trump supporters will not listen to me or to you, or to Anderson Cooper or anyone on CNN. They listen to Fox News, just like Trump does.

    “I have a very long history in my life of being told my opinion doesn’t matter, I don’t count, and to shut up. It’s taken me my whole life to feel confident in voicing how I feel. Now I’m feeling stifled again and like I have to  walk on eggshells… I just don’t know how to navigate these friendships which feel strained at the moment.. being true to myself or trying so hard to preserve these friendships.. perhaps we are not as compatible as before”-

    – Your opinion matters, just not to Trump supporters, be it friends or otherwise. If your friends respect you, respect them back by not talking about Trump with them, set a No-Politics-Talk rule, for as long as you choose to talk to them.

    You are welcome to share your feelings about Trump and the state of the country/ world here, in your own thread, or start a new thread. You can state there, or restate here, as you have done, that you are not interested in a political debate, that all you want to do is to express your feelings, your anxiety and invite other members to do so as well.

    anita

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by .
    #366971
    Anonymous
    Guest

    * correction, second paragraph: I assume that you shared that he is dangerous to the country (and the world)

    anita

    #366980
    nycartist
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thank you for your input. Yes, you hit the nail on the head about Trump. He is nothing short of a danger. I mainly just try to stick to posts that are fact-checked and undeniably awful, as I would hope anyone with common sense will see how absolutely terrible Trump is for this country as well as the world and our democracy. And I was guilty of generalizing at first, saying things like “Anyone who supports this needs to reevaluate…” etc. But when my first friend mentioned that, I really put an end to that way of speaking, and tried to stick to my own beliefs and feelings, such as my second example of why I think Biden is a decent human being. Or why I believe taking climate change seriously is so important right now. I am really making the effort to have one on one discussions when people don’t see eye to eye, as I know that no one’s mind will change from reading a Facebook post. But you’re right, people who support Trump will not be swayed no matter what, and that’s where I’m starting to question these friendships a little. It’s not so much that everyone needs to agree with me, but our values are quite different and I am really shocked at some of the things Trump does that they acknowledge and SUPPORT (i.e. immigration, foreign policy, tax cuts for the rich). I think all parties (my friends and I) are struggling with this part. We love each other and are loyal friends but WOW we are very differently minded now.

    I agree, now that we all know where we stand, that the best thing for our friendship is not to discuss politics. BUT my problem is I wasn’t even discussing it with them originally. I was expressing myself on my own page and they took offense when it wasn’t directed towards them at all, ever. So now I’ve gone and removed myself entirely from Facebook because I care that much about not wanting to cause offense. But I’m feeling a bit cheated like I wasn’t even writing those things FOR THEM specifically, just for myself and to speak my own mind. Now I am just turned off to social media in general but feel like I need to find another way to speak out… and probably a more constructive way to do so. It also just leaves a bad taste in my mouth knowing that my friends are secretly ok with this. Funny enough, neither one is politically outspoken, which is why they both took it up with me in private mostly. I guess the old saying is true, never discuss religion, politics or money with friends.

    #366982
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear nycartist:

    I will read and reply to your recent post when I am back to the computer, in a few hours from now.

    anita

    #366987
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear nycartist:

    I am looking forward to be back to your thread Mon morning, in about 13 hours from now.

    anita

    #367030
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear nycartist:

    Because your political posts on Facebook were not directed at your friends, the friends who felt offended by your posts had the option to not read those posts or to not go on your Facebook page at all.

    Lots of people experience your frustration when discussing politics on Facebook. Personally I don’t do Facebook and this here is my only social media participation.

    Perhaps because I was inspired by your thread, I had my first face to face conversation with a strong Trump supporter at the local taproom yesterday afternoon. I asked him questions just so to get information, to understand his thinking. I didn’t get angry and I didn’t argue with him. I’ve liked this person, this Trump supporter for a long time, even though I now hate his support of Trump. I have no doubt that I can’t change his mind, no doubt at all. He really believes that Trump will be better for the economy. I mentioned to him that Trump lacks self discipline, tweeting and saying whatever comes to his mind, that he is not a good person, uncaring for the health of his own supporters during his rallies, and that I am afraid that he is proceeding toward dictatorship. Following the conversation, a few people joined the table and he told them: this is the first time I had a conversation about politics that didn’t involve arguing.

    I believe that the reason Trump became who he is, and the reason so many people support his aggression,  is that aggression is way too common everywhere, starting at homes. Lots of children having suffered aggression, be it physical, emotional, verbal.. identify with the aggressor, looking up to him/ her. Fast forward, Trump looks up to aggressive world dictators, and is submissive to them. And he is aggressive to everyone else. But before he admired aggression, and before he proceeded to be aggressive, he suffered aggression.

    Here is an example of aggression Trump is still encountering: people making fun of his hair and the color of his face, as well as him walking too slowly down that ramp, etc. We should all be careful to not make fun of people because of the way they look, the way they walk.. none of that. Aggression begets aggression. I watched liberal comedians and others making fun of Trump for the way he looks and walks- that’s aggression, that’s promoting the Problem.

    My dream is that he will not be re-elected and that he will move out of any and all position of power over the country and the world, and that we will look back at his presidency as a nightmare that has passed.

    anita

    #367052
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi nycartist

    I suspect many find themselves in a similar situations.

    As a archetype the “liberal” is expected to be kind and listen to all sides and be kind when responding while the “conservative” gets to tell it as it is.  When a conservative offends that’s the offended problem when the liberal offends its their problem. That is of course a very general statement yet I suspect many may be offended by it.

    For reasons I don’t fully understand we live at a time where the tenancy is to be ‘offended’ when we disagree.  To “take offence”.  “The Stoic philosophers taught that if you choose not to be offended by others’ actions, you will not be. An offense is up to your interpretation. Instead, treat others with kindness and assert your autonomy.” In other words to be offended one chooses to be offended.

    I am not saying that your friends are doing this however a tactic (often unconsciously) to quite someone is to take on the role of being offended and victim.  It is also possible that your friends are offended because their is a part of themselves they don’t want to look at. Assuming someone isn’t intentionally trying to be offensive choosing to be offended is a great excuses to avoid checking in with whether ones values, actions and words are inline with who we think we are and stand for.

    Just like your friends you have the right to express yourself especially if  you feel being silent is not being authentic to your self.  It is unlikely you will find a safe place to do so in these charged times. I hope you keep trying.

     

     

    #367078
    Canadian Eagle
    Participant

    If everyone supported Trump all would be great

    #367080
    Peter
    Participant

    Sorry I didn’t indent to submit the above.

    These are such crazy times

    The Stoic philosophers taught that if you choose not to be offended by others’ actions, you will not be. An offense is up to your interpretation. Instead, treat others with kindness and assert your autonomy.”

    The stoics were saying that to be offended requires participation. Thus the one offended ought to ask themselves why they are feeling offended. Any answer requires a good deal of self knowledge.  Being offended because you disagree with someone is not a good reason to be offended and likely not the real reason.  Taking offence tends to be personal. I feel offended because what someone said or did was experienced as a attack on my sense of self, identify, ego….

    In a better climate when someone is offended because of something you wrote a response saying that you are sorry that they feel offended as that was not your intent might be enough to smooth things over and you might even be able to ask them to explain what part of what you said offended them.  If its a disagreement you could have a dialog about that. If they felt what you said was a attack on their sense of self you could review your statements to see if your wording could have been interpreted that way and correct any unintentional misunderstandings,  however their isn’t much more you can do about that. In this case it is a opportunity of the offended to take a inward look at themselves to determine what they are attaching their sense of self with and if that truly represents them. If they can do that they would be better able to enter back into dialog.

    These are difficult times for dialog. Everyone is offended it seems all the time. Its hard. When my family and friends defend, support and give their loyalty and support to a Man who’s character I don’t think deserve such loyalty its hard not to feel and look at them differently. I’d like to say I could do so with compassion while still standing up for what I think and value. I like to think I try but if I’m honest I tend towards being silenced. I suspect what is happening to our society is not about politics.

    We tend to create what we fear when we are blind to our shadows and it takes work to shine the light on ourselves let along for others to see. I am at a loss

     

    #367081
    Canadian Eagle
    Participant

    Reading both contributors  on this thread demonstrates why Trump rings true to a huge minority in the US ( and globally) . There is a deep seated fear among a large minority that the liberal agenda rubbishes beliefs and values that have sustained communities for decades if not centuries , values like self sufficiency , religious values ( ie the unborn life ) , expectations that your children will be able to settle and raise a family in your community. The liberal media and cohorts have made such a huge thing out of hating Trump that they have created a monster that really does not exist , the US ( Canada where I am from ) and the western world are democracies , politicians are a reflection of who we are at any given time . If you don’t like your politician then vote and if you are moved become politically active …… but don’t fall into the trap of demonising your opponent because by doing so you demonise your neighbour .

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