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August 22, 2024 at 9:14 pm #436523anitaParticipant
Dear Clara:
You are welcome. “The more I think about it, the more this break up makes sense“- sincerely, after getting to know her better through our communication, the breakup make sense for you because you are into emotions and addressing relationship problems and solutions, while she is not.
In other words, I think that she is not good-enough for you, too compartmentalized, to emotionally unaware and dishonest. She may be good at her job, and at superficial friendships, but she is/ has not been good as a long-term, or lifetime relationship.
anita
August 27, 2024 at 7:13 am #436652ChauParticipantHello Anita
It’s been another few days. After this is clearer, I think I am another step to not be too affected by her(her being in my mind, not really having any interaction anyways)
I think this is one of the comments that I received often, from my friend. That she thinks too shallow(may be too compartmentalize/ emotional unaware if we use more psychologicacl terms), while they all know how much of a deep thinker I am. But the funny thing is, I think I knew this, and my mind says ‘if you are committed to someone, then you should not give up on that person because of her “flaw” ‘ I do feel sometime I am not completely accepting, if I were to work on myself, then I should be more empathetic. But I did have some negative reaction when she had moments where she seemed to be completely ignorant of what she was doing, or the effect of her actions.
I think that’s the reason why i didn’t set up an appropriate/ healthy boundary? In my mind, I think I should work with her to see how we can improve, rather than, just walk away. The fine line between being perservance and being stubborn, is hard to manage in a relationship for me. When should a relationship really stops?
She is indeed good at her job, and some superficial interaction . She does have feelings and she does care for others, and I can sense it throughout our relationship, It felt like she couldn’t help it, and a lot of time she really didn’t know what she has done. That made me feeling quite unsure what to do, on one hand, I think sometime objectively, she should be more emotional mature(given she is 40, but honestly there are a lot 40’s who are still not knowing what they are doing in their lives, so I can’t say that i guess…), on the other hand, I think she really doesn’t have the skills or capability yet so I should be more empathetic.
I think being with this person has given me a lot of lessons to learn, given that we are quite different. I think we must have cared for each a lot at some points, that allowed us to sustain 5.5 years of relationship
good morning on your side
Clara
August 27, 2024 at 9:19 am #436659anitaParticipantDear Clara:
Good morning here, good night to you! Good to read from you: clearer and another step ahead toward moving on!
“she thinks too shallow (may be too compartmentalized/ emotionally unaware, if we use more psychological terms), while they all know how much of a deep thinker I am“- I agree.
“But the funny thing is, I think I knew this, and my mind says ‘if you are committed to someone, then you should not give up on that person because of her ‘flaw’“- you should give up on her because she told you (I am sad to be repeating her words) that she does not like you anymore, and that she has no feelings for you. And because you can’t trust what she says in regard to her feelings: she told you something to the affect of it being difficult for her to separate from you, from a person she has no feeling for: this is not believable because when person A has no feelings for (not even liking) person B, it’s not difficult for A to separate from B, it’s difficult to stay with B.
“In my mind, I think I should work with her to see how we can improve, rather than, just walk away. The fine line between being perseverant and being stubborn, is hard to manage in a relationship for me. When should a relationship really stops?“- when one or two of the people in the relationship says they don’t like the other.
The line between being perseverant and being stubborn in this context, as I see it, is that in being stubborn, you don’t really hear what she said, or you don’t process it, or you explain it away (as in, maybe you think that she likes you and has feelings for you but is currently unaware of these feelings). Perseverance has logic behind it; stubbornness, sometimes has no logic behind it, and when that’s the case, it leads to suffering.
“I think sometime objectively, she should be more emotional mature (given she is 40, but honestly there are a lot 40’s who are still not knowing what they are doing in their lives… ), on the other hand, I think she really doesn’t have the skills or capability yet so I should be more empathetic“- if she was a 4-year-old child and you were her 40-year-old teacher, you could empathetically teach her skills and capabilities and she would be eager to learn, I imagine. But like most older adults (30s and onward), she is done learning certain things. I don’t think that she looks up to you (as a child would look up to a teacher) to teach her things in matters of emotional skills and capabilities.
“I think being with this person has given me a lot of lessons to learn, given that we are quite different. I think we must have cared for each a lot at some points, that allowed us to sustain 5.5 years of relationship“- yes, she cared for you as much as she is capable of. There were good things in the relationship, good times to honor and to move on from, at the same time. Do I make sense?
anita
August 27, 2024 at 5:11 pm #436679ChauParticipantHi Anita
good evening on your end.
I think that kept me going, when we were still dating. the analogy of teacher student is accurate. she is not my student, but my partner and the relationship should be more balanced
i am not thinking to pursue her back or continue the relationship when she hasnt grown or changed. I am more thinking how did i not see this, and how should i see it clearer next time
may be open my eyes wider, and my ears as well next time. instead of being swept away by the emotions of falling in love
thanks, have a good night
August 27, 2024 at 7:08 pm #436682anitaParticipantDear Clara:
Good 10 am morning to you!
“I am not thinking to pursue her back or continue the relationship when she hasn’t grown or changed“- good thing!
“I am more thinking how did I not see this“- the heart sees what the heart wants to see.
“how should I see it clearer next time“- add logic to the heart, There is an equation my therapist taught me back in the day: wise mind= rational mind (logic) + emotional mind (the heart).
“may be open my eyes wider, and my ears as well next time. instead of being swept away by the emotions of falling in love“- I wrote the above before I read these two sentences: we are on the same page!
“thanks, have a good night“- you are welcome and thank you! Still light outside, no wind, no air movement outside the glass window. Wed 10:08 am where you are at, Tues 7:08 pm here.
anita
September 2, 2024 at 9:45 am #436971anitaParticipantHow are you, Clara?
anita
September 2, 2024 at 8:06 pm #436983ChauParticipantHello Anita
Thanks for asking. All is well.
It has been slightly more than a month, from the actual break up. But I feel (and objectively think) I am recovering very quickly. There used to be this emotion tsunami , but now they became ripples only. I could identify it in my chest when it came, and as it builds up to a certain point, I sit with it and often times my tears would come out, and I would become better. After repetitive trials, I am quite used to the pattern and I can just let it be.
I do still, from time to time, see if she has updated on IG, that is basically the only connection we have now. I can recall the number of followers(I just do haha, I am very sensitive to numbers and I do still check her IG time to time) that she has and how many she follows , and I realized the number of both went down recently. I was thinking ” hmmm may be someone in her life is unfollowing her due to xxxxx, would it be someone she saw when we were on a break/ dating etc etc ‘ . It’s silly to stalk and think like that, and I know I am still lingering a bit, but it is kind of a habit to check on how she is, I see myself doing it less and less, but it still happens.
There was one night, when I was a bit sleepless, and i was thinking how inconsiderate she was. I had the feeling that I wanted to yell at her, but didn’t do so obviously. I just felt unfair, the way she treated me. The anger is still inside, and I would need to settle it on my own and I don’t expect her to do anything or would understand, coz if she does, she would already have done something.
I am now practicing a bit more yoga now, after the break up, I have set a goal to do handstand within the year which i had thought about it for a while. There is this yoga teacher whom I quite like, her energy is light and she is fun to be with. I reserved some private lessons with her and after yesterday’s lesson, I realized I could have some fun time, with someone else, completely unaffected by the though of my ex. I can’t help but think with the right scenario, in the right context, I could start to like this teacher, or someone else for that matter.
the other thought that came immediately, was the thing you mentioned: adding logic to the heart. Even If I like this person, do I know this person well enough? is this mutual? what shows that this is mutual and how is this person compatible/ not compatible with me? I probably wouldn’t look via this lens before, but now, I think I am starting to have this lens now, which I think is an improvement as this balances my sentiments, which i had a lot when I began to like a person
Now I realized, it really takes a lot of time, to really start a relationship. I was too rush before , that made me unable to see clearly.
I am still actively thinking to adopt an animal, this, unlike the thought of my ex, is getting stronger rather than weaker. I like dogs but I know the commitment is higher, cats are easier. Anyhow, I will go check the dog/ cat shelter this weekend. Needs to consider so many as this can be a decade long commitment(and we certainly won’t break up so this may be the longest relationship I have, so far. Careful and deliberate considerations are needed!) I am unsure which animal will connect with me, but as my friend said: You would know you are ready when you do.
Have a good evening Anita, welcome to let me know how you have been
Clara
September 2, 2024 at 8:16 pm #436984anitaParticipantDear Clara: will read and reply in about 12 hours from now.
anita
September 2, 2024 at 8:48 pm #436985ChauParticipantthanks Anita
have a good night
September 3, 2024 at 8:10 am #437001anitaParticipantDear Clara:
“I am recovering very quickly. There used to be this emotion tsunami , but now they became ripples only. I could identify it in my chest when it came, and as it builds up to a certain point, I sit with it and often times my tears would come out, and I would become better. After repetitive trials, I am quite used to the pattern and I can just let it be“- emotion regulation successfully practiced: emotional tsunami=> emotional ripples. Well done!
“I do still, from time to time, see if she has updated on IG… it is kind of a habit to check on how she is, I see myself doing it less and less“- less and less is progress.
“The anger is still inside, and I would need to settle it on my own and I don’t expect her to do anything or would understand, coz if she does, she would already have done something“- your anger is understandable, your reasoning- impeccable, and you taking responsibility for your anger- admirable!
“I am now practicing a bit more yoga now… There is this yoga teacher whom I quite like… I realized I could have some fun time, with someone else, completely unaffected by the though of my ex“- this is how emotional recovery in progress feels like.
“the other thought that came immediately, was the thing you mentioned: adding logic to the heart. Even If I like this person, do I know this person well enough? is this mutual?… I probably wouldn’t look via this lens before, but now, I think I am starting to have this lens now, which I think is an improvement as this balances my sentiments, which I had a lot when I began to like a person… I was too rush before , that made me unable to see clearly“- excellent insight into yourself and wise self-counsel/ guidance!
“I am still actively thinking to adopt an animal, this, unlike the thought of my ex, is getting stronger rather than weaker… this can be a decade long commitment (and we certainly won’t break up so this may be the longest relationship I have, so far. Careful and deliberate considerations are needed!)“- careful and deliberate considerations are needed, and information-gathering is very important in the process (see my recent experience below).
“Have a good evening Anita, welcome to let me know how you have been“- Tues morning here, Tues night where you’re at, I hope that you are (or soon will be) sleeping restfully.
About how I’ve been, in connection to adopting a pet: recently a couple who want to give away their 9-year-old beagle brought me their pet for the first introduction. They didn’t mention it before, so seeing the huge fatty tumor on the side of the dog was a very unpleasant surprise for me. If I adopted the dog, first thing I’d need to do is have that huge tumor (1/4 of the dog’s volume, in think) removed in a surgery, there may be complications, and definitely a long post-surgery care required. It was a No, on my part. (info: Fatty tumors are more common in older, overweight dogs than it is in younger, healthy-weight dogs. it is also more common in some breeds than in others).
anita
September 7, 2024 at 11:27 pm #437104ChauParticipantHello Anita
Wish you well.
Earlier last week I texted her and asked her to take her things back. She left something in one of the cabinets in my apartment, which she must have missed. I told her I would leave it in the yoga studio where we usually go together. After a week, my teacher was asking if I would take it back next time, meaning she hasn’t taken the stuff away.
So I texted her early this week, seeing if she would take things back. If not I don’t want to occupy the yoga studio’s space. I also follow up with asking how she would attend the classes further. There were times I wanted to attend the class that we usually attended, but I also understand those might be the only classes that she could go, so I deliberately skipped them. I think I don’t want to just be the one taking care of this: dismissing what I want( to attend certiain class), while she might not need me to do so as she is not going anyways/ might not care etc.
She suggested some ways and one of which was just to use a google form to write down when we plan to go. I thought it was a bit sad to revert to this, while I thought we could just text each other like normal interaction. So I counter suggested that I would just text her if I want to attend the classes, to which she said ok. Later that night I texted her and said I didn’t even know if she appreicates my initiation, and that I deliberately skipped lessons to give us some space, i said I hoped we could speak like normal eventually. and asked her to let me know what she thinks. At the back of my mind, I think this is familar: She said ‘ok; to smth, and I was to naive to believe that she was ‘ok’ , but she wasn’t.
She then said, she apprecaited it. She also said she was too emotional still and was afraid if any of our conversation went sour, she could not handle, and so she wished to limit the interaction. She said I might think it’s easy for her to move on, but she was still in so much pain.
So I told her that may be, using google form is a better balance of what I want(attend classes) and what she needs(have limited/ no interaction), so at least she wouldn’t get a random text from me.
A few days later, my feelings towards this emerged: Why is she in such a pain? did I do something wrong again?(I think that’s my default mode to reflect what i have done and they are usually bad things) I think I knew I didn’t. I think the only thing I did was to protect my boundary: asked her and her stuffs to move away asap, respecting my own needs and right to attend the classes. But seeing her so paralzed , almost unable to talk to me after a month and a half, I feel there is something off, and I really wanted to fix it.
My friend told me she might not know what she has done, how what she did affect me and how badly she treated me throughout, so when I really stood up for myself, she suddenly realized it was not ok, and that I would set my boundaries all of a sudden once she said she wanted to break up, which shocked her so much. It is entirely possible that if I didn’t do that, she would not feel the impact of the breakup, althoug she chose for herself. So she said it was not on me, she should really feel the pain for what she chose and what she did.
I still cry, I still miss her sometime. But I now think this is a necessary process for my healing.
Yesterday I went to the cat adoption centre, There were two cats that I particularly connected with. One is a 2 year old male and the other is a 1 year old girl. The girl has one eye that has problem and not really functioning. I am tryint to find out more medical background(if any), and I am trying to use a week or two , to imagine how it feels like if there is an animal around. Literally picturing an animal walking in my flat. I remember your lesson, and I will try to expect the unexpected, especially these animals came from different backgrounds and they might have various kinds of issues prior.
Have a good day, take care!
Clara
September 8, 2024 at 8:41 am #437125anitaParticipantDear Clara:
Thank you for wishing me well!
“I still cry, I still miss her sometime. But I now think this is a necessary process for my healing“- yes, it is a necessary part of the process of healing.
On the other hand, contacting her in any way, and for any reason is not congruent with the process of your healing.
I am looking forward to read what happens next in regard to the cats and I hope you are sleeping restfully as I submit this post.
anita
September 10, 2024 at 8:38 pm #438017ChauParticipantHello Anita
Thank you. Good evening.
Started from a few days earlier indeed I was not sleeping too well. This morning, I woke up earlier than expected, I can feel the sadness in my chest so I sat with it for a while. Tears flowed out.
I think I miss her. OR may be I miss having someone by my side. She used to be a stable companions that I could go back to every night. Just in general, a bit down these days.
I am starting to afraid my adoption is an impulsive act to try to alleviate my sadness only. Given that I can sense that I am still a bit sad and am not in a completely stable state. May be I should visit the centre again, or give it more time before actually adopt.
September 11, 2024 at 11:10 am #438034anitaParticipantDear Clara:
“not sleeping too we… I can feel the sadness in my chest so I sat with it for a while. Tears flowed out. I think I miss her. OR may be I miss having someone by my side” (Sept 10, 2024, following the most recent breakup).
June 9, 2016, following a previous breakup (I am adding the boldface feature to the following quotes): “I have ups and downs though, and yesterday I missed her so much that I went to her home downstairs.. I have been checking her and my fd’s online status (it’s really silly seriously) on WhatsApp… I don’t understand why after so many things happened, I am not angry at her and still want her to be by my side“.
Aug 8, 2016: “I think this breakup has just stirred everything up, and this generalized depressive mood has been here for long. I am more concerned these days as I suspect myself of getting mild depression, because of the sleeplessness, low energy, losing interest in things etc.”- see the parallels between then and now?
Aug 9, 2016: “I have in general very poor recollection of my childhood… the reason why I remembered so little was because I have an unhappy childhood… There are times when I feel I need so much love from someone else. Guess deep down I don’t feel worthy of love… I was very alone when I was young“-
– Notice you wrote that you have (present tense) an unhappy childhood. Indeed, we keep re-living our childhood emotional experiences over and over again, as adults, until and if we achieve enough lasting healing and recovery from devastating, early-life, powerful childhood emotional injuries.
The breakup back in the summer of 2016 and the recent breakup of summer 2024, stirred everything up, everything, meaning: the devastating alone-ness, not having someone by your side, not having someone to love you.
Maybe this is an opportunity, following this recent breakup, to reach in to the child within you and invite her to tell you what happened back then, what hurt her so much, how did it feel to be so alone. Invite her to express herself, maybe here, on your thread. Type her words into the screen (or privately, into a journal), and be with her. Be on her side. Love her.
I never met her. But I have love for her nonetheless.
anita
September 18, 2024 at 10:49 pm #438224ChauParticipantHi Anita,
Thanks again, for digging out the things that I shared some years ago, so I can look at the similarity.
i wrote something to my little self. telling her I love her the other day.
I think, we normalize some bad behaviors that do do to people. There are times when I look at my brother interacting with his children, and I thought: may be this is how my own wound at childhood was created. He was not physically abusive or being very rude or rough, but it was the insinuation of the fault that the children made, the causal comments which may be insulting, these are the things that we have normalized. I guess not everyone has a psychology background(which I think we all should have some degree of knowledge) so I understand why. But when I try to pamper or comfort my little self, I realized there are things that I wished someone else could tell me/ did to me, when I was younger, but nobody did.
I think I am reliving the childhood for a very long period of time, the loneliness, the scare, the threatening environment. I was easily brought back there.
Honestly, as weird as it sounds, I still want to get in touch with her(may be it’s the ‘miss her’ that i said above). But once I think of the next step, say if she wants to be with me, I actually don’t think I want that, not the person that she still is(I guess one can’t change so much in a month and a half, especially with her avoidance/ distancing behaviors). But that urge, somehow, is still there. I never am able to say : No this person is not good to me so i just shut the door. Somehow, I just can’t do that.
to think deeper, I actually don’t miss the actual ‘her’. I miss the image of her, the future that ‘her’ may have with me, the relationship that a ‘her’ could provide. Her, being relatively non-connected emotional, is not something that I miss.
Hope you are well.
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