Home→Forums→Relationships→Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships
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March 2, 2024 at 6:05 am #428312seaturtleParticipant
Dear Anita,
I just read your replies and will further respond through the weekend. With my retroactive awareness I wondered if I read first and let it sit in my mind, if my third eye will have a deeper understanding, or maybe a better way to say it: my third eye and crown will have more time to communicate about it first.
“we both clearly have a similar desire to be better every day“- yes, indeed.. we’re bot the bees’ knees!
– yesterday I went to a brewery with my roommate and as I looked over the cider menu there was one called “the bees knees”!! Can you believe that haha after I told you it was losing relevance, I guess Seaturtle was floating under a rock. I ordered the cider just because of the name and so I could tell you!
happy Saturday
Seaturtle
March 2, 2024 at 8:58 am #428318anitaParticipantDear Bee’s Knees Seaturtle:
“With my retroactive awareness I wondered if… my third eye and crown will have more time to communicate about it first“- yes, more time for the third eye and crown chakras (the adults in the room, so to speak) to communicate if the sacral and heart chakras (the children in the room) cooperate and do not disrupt the communication between the adults. This means that the adults need to (empathetically, yet authoritatively) discipline the children.
“We’re bot the bees’ knees!“- to read this coming from a Gen Z Sea turtle makes my day!!!
“Yesterday I went to a brewery with my roommate and as I looked over the cider menu there was one called ‘the bees knees’!! Can you believe that haha after I told you it was losing relevance…. I ordered the cider just because of the name and so I could tell you!“- H i L a R i O u s!
Happy Saturday to you too..!
anita
March 3, 2024 at 6:24 pm #428335seaturtleParticipantHello Anita,
I haven’t formed complete responses yet and am still letting it sit until I feel them come to me. Instead I felt like coming here for a little journal entry.
It is amazing the range of emotions I am capable of. I think it is easier to regulate them when I can consistently work out, like a true workout to sweat, but what is so inconvenient right now is with my surgery recovery the most I can do is walk a couple miles. Which I had been doing at least every other day, but I am craving a good sweat. I am also craving getting physically fit right now, I am healthy and on the outside look for but I can feel there’s so much room for improvement and it would feel amazing in this time of my confidence for strength being challenged, challenged by me.
My range of emotions look like this. Some weeks I feel in motion with my life, it flows and I am confident in my decisions and that my future will reveal that to me. I heard from a commencement speech by Steve Jobs that, you can’t look into your future to connect the dots about what’s going on but you can look back to make sense of where you are. So I’m these more stable “in-motion” weeks I am confident that when I look back in the future, the dots will make sense and I will be proud of my process.
Then there are the off weeks, like this past week. Where I have the same belief as above, but instead of the confidence that, in my future I will look back and be proud of my process, instead I worry that I will look back and have regret.
This back and forth happens and is centered around my confidence versus lack of confidence, that I called it quits with N.
The past week, including today I have been in the less confident state. And on my walk today found myself comforted by the idea that maybe someday I will be with N again, but given that he do some work on himself AND have some realization that I have qualities he wants. Qualities beyond what he recognized about me before.
I think the reasons I am craving exercise right now is because it is a way that, in the past with sports and going to the gym in college, it’s always got me to, or kept me in more of a confident “in-motion” state.
I hope you had a good weekend,
Seaturtle
March 3, 2024 at 6:25 pm #428336seaturtleParticipantPs, don’t worry about the volume of your messages, when I sit to reply I am never wishing there was less on your end (:
March 3, 2024 at 6:55 pm #428338anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I read your journal entry twice. My summary: in on-weeks you are in a state of motion/ flow, confident about your decision to call it quits with N. In off-weeks, you are not confident about the decision, and you feel comforted by thoughts of a (conditional) reunion with N. In the past, pre-surgery, intense exercise put you in the on/ in-motion state of mind and you are craving it (this state of mind).
Looking (again) at the title of your thread, looks like gut is synonymous to your confident, in-motion state of mind, and fear is synonymous with your off/ stagnant state of mind. The guts is fine with not having N in your life, fear wants him back.
Thank you for the P.S. My weekend had both on and off parts, right now, it’s on. Good night, Seaturtle!
anita
March 4, 2024 at 1:32 pm #428359seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
I am on my lunch break and wanted to respond, to my journal entry yesterday, from my phone so I apologize for any formatting errors.
Your summary is correct.
You wrote: “Looking (again) at the title of your thread, looks like gut is synonymous to your confident, in-motion state of mind, and fear is synonymous with your off/ stagnant state of mind. The guts is fine with not having N in your life, fear wants him back”
I hope this is true because I hope any feelings for wanting N back, or feelings of regret are wrong because I don’t want to regret it. I think part of that regret can happen when I realize things in the relationship I could have done better, which inevitably make me wonder if that would have made a difference. But I try to allow myself to conclude that I did my best in that time.
Last night I had very vivid dreams and although I woke up missing N intensely, the dreams clarified to me what I was missing. In my dream it didn’t involve any brain stimulation (crown chakra) it didn’t involve any intimacy (heart chakra) the dream was 90% some sort of extreme sacral craving I seemed to be chasing. It was only pleasure that I was seeking. This morning in a limited time I had online I tried to seek ways to align my sacral chakra in a healthy way that doesn’t involve other people because I don’t think I am ready for that. Or maybe that would change if it was a good person but I’ve yet to meet anyone I’d even desire that type of connection with. The dream brought me some clarity that perhaps working out intensely is an outlet for those sacral chakra desires. Also how stark it must be to my body and mentality that I was in a relationship for 2 years of consistent physical intimacy, always available. I think it is the stark difference, more so than the amount of time it has been since physical intimacy because I have gone years without it in my adult life and have not had dreams like I had last night that I woke up feeling like it actually happened. I have only had a handful of dreams that I recall years later, and that dream was so vivid and creative that it will be added to that small list.
I am wondering your thoughts on what it can do to you mentally and physically to get used to physical intimacy, instant gratification to the sacral chakra, to suddenly none. It makes sense it’s some sort of withdrawal symptom but I want to discover why so that I can find another outlet that is not intense workouts for the next few weeks. I am also curious if you have any insight on dreams and what makes vivid dreams that make you feel things. Even the other night in my dreams a tiger bit me and I could feel it to an extent.
Seaturtle
March 4, 2024 at 3:09 pm #428363anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I’ll think about your question (last paragraph).. a tiger bit you in the dream, not a shark… I wonder… back to you later.
anita
March 4, 2024 at 4:51 pm #428364seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
I’ve had some more clarity, I know where my fear/ regret comes from. I fear that I should have not ended things the way that I did. The day before the breakup I was hopeful of his awareness that he didn’t know how he came across, but when I shared that with you you pointed out the gaslighting technique there. As more clarity came to me and after reading your message of reasons to end the relationship with N, I don’t understand why I felt the need to end things so quickly rather than have a full conversation. I just wonder how that conversation would have gone and if him hearing me say I was considering breaking up and more clear as to why since I had more realizations after our dinner two nights before. I wonder if he would have heard what I was saying and felt the urgency to be more aware of his feelings, feelings he denied, passive aggression that he had previously denied and gaslighted me about.
I know I did try sooo many times in the relationship to work things out in my head and in conversation, that whole second year being together. But I think all that exhaustion really caught up with me when you validated my feelings of him gaslighting my feelings. I remember seeing a trail back to all the times he had.
But realizing how I went wrong in the relationship and moments I didn’t express myself the best way… ever since his text that I don’t know what love is… I interpreted that as him saying he would have stuck by me through anything but I gave up on him. And I feel a lot of guilt over that and it has made me really question myself. Question if I did try my best and make me worry that if I could go back I would have given him more of a chance to get better. I’ve had vivid dreams, bad sleep and high anxiety the past week or more over this. Recently When I see the parents I nanny for argue, I wonder “did I give up over an argument that I will just have again in another relationship?” That reminds me of his good qualities and the things I “gave up.” The good parts of him I broke up with that now I will just want in another relationship. I have been in a thought loop of this anxiety and I think the dreams are because of that.
I feel bad for having these thoughts on top of having them. I feel badly and I wonder if I should reach out to talk, but he said he doesn’t want to waste more energy on me. I can’t tell if this is my third eye being closed or if it is a new realization of it. It is very painful for me to think that if only I had given him the opportunity for a full conversation, rather than ending it so quickly out of fear that he would gaslight and confuse me, that maybe it would have worked out. I just wish I had the confidence in my strength to hold my own if he did try, but maybe the previous dinner when he excused himself from everything by saying he doesn’t know how he comes across, maybe that was him attempting to understand himself and I gave up before he was able to try and make a change. Two nights prior to the breakup was the first time I brought up the term gaslighting, and although I’d tried to explain it prior maybe that time he would have understood.
But then I think about how he didn’t put much effort into talking me out of breaking up he pretty much just left, but I think it may be unfair to expect someone to argue when you say it is what you want.
I think all of these thoughts have been stuck in my head since texting him about my things and they are just now coming out. I feel icky and afraid I made a mistake. But maybe this is all just the sacral (child) acting out because of how much I miss his physical presence. I hope I didn’t make a huge mistake and that he is the “one that got away” as I feared he would be, the fear that kept me in the relationship the last year I struggled and did my best to communicate. What if I stuck with it… this thought is eating me on the inside and I either need to reach out to him and see if he will hear me out; or I need to squash this potential regret somehow.
I apologize for the word vomit, these have been my thoughts I’ve been fighting but now that they are so clear and even convincing, I am afraid of them and don’t know what to do with them.
Anxious Seaturtle
March 4, 2024 at 5:01 pm #428365seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
The interesting thing about the tiger dream was that i was pretty lucid and in the dream I knew that if I showed anxiety or fear, the tiger would bite me. My level of fear/anxiety was equivalent to the aggression or affection of the tiger. Low fear and the tiger was your friend. I began to feel anxious and the tigers looked at me and I tried ti calm myself down and calmly ask my uncle to take the tigers inside cause I was afraid. As I tried to stay calm they got closer and my fear got harder to control and I felt anxious. My anxiety was barely simmering and the tiger very slowly bit into my leg, insinuating that if I showed more fear I would be attacked. Then I woke up.
Still anxious seaturtle
March 4, 2024 at 5:17 pm #428366anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I am wondering your thoughts on what it can do to you mentally and physically to get used to physical intimacy, instant gratification to the sacral chakra, to suddenly none… I want to discover… another outlet that is not intense workouts for the next few weeks“- You, 25-year old sea turtle tell me (old woman with cane emoji) what it can do to you..! (ha ha).
At the beginning of my walk, I remembered that only yesterday I heard (didn’t listen to it though) a segment on The News Hour titled Why more people are turning to artificial intelligence for companionship? And I thought to myself to tell you: imagine via AI technology, you choose a boyfriend, literally choose every physical part of him (colors, shapes, dimensions etc.), and you put together his mental profile: his sense of humor, words he’d often say (ex., the bee’s knees), topics he’d talk about, his food preferences, quirks and all (including sacral chakra compatibility.. the perfect boyfriend, soul- body mate AI style!
Is there such a thing, is this what the News Hour segment was about? Of course, I imagine you’d reject this as inauthentic, but what about it being .. an technologically enhanced fantasy/ daydreaming?
“I am also curious if you have any insight on dreams and what makes vivid dreams that make you feel things. Even the other night in my dreams a tiger bit me and I could feel it to an extent“- tigers live in tropical rainforests, evergreen forests, grasslands, rocky areas and in mangrove swamps. The only place where a sea turtle can have a chance to be bitten by a tiger is in a mangrove swamp.. Is there something about the mangrove swamps for you to discover..?
I don’t really have insight into dreams other than that often in dreams, there is some release of suppressed emotions and desires, much of these from childhood.
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:18 pm #428367anitaParticipantI submitted the above post before I became aware of your latest 2 posts, will reply to them soon.
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:46 pm #428368seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
I feel bad for my anxiety and I feel also anxious you will be disappointed that I am doubting myself so much and not confident Seaturtle. I do think these thoughts are because of the text message exchanges and I also think my anxiety is a mixture of the thoughts and bad sleep do to these lucid dreaming nights.
March 4, 2024 at 5:51 pm #428369anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I just wonder how that conversation would have gone and if him hearing me say I was considering breaking up and more clear as to why..“- he’d say that he has no words to describe how you made him feel.. wouldn’t he?
“I wonder if he would have heard what I was saying and felt the urgency to be more aware of his feelings, feelings he denied, passive aggression that he had previously denied and gaslighted me about“- it’s a fantasy that following just the right words and an explanation coming from you, he’d go through a metamorphosis. It’d take many months of active psychotherapy and lots of proactive work, and not using weed daily, to make such profound, deep changes.
“(I) Question if I did try my best and make me worry that if I could go back I would have given him more of a chance to get better“- there is a fitting saying: you can’t squeeze water (introspection, insight etc.) out of a stone (a person whose regularly stoned, pun intended), no matter how long you stand there, day and night, squeezing.
“It is very painful for me to think that if only I had given him the opportunity for a full conversation, rather than ending it so quickly out of fear that he would gaslight and confuse me, that maybe it would have worked out“- fantasy.
“maybe this is all just the sacral (child) acting out because of how much I miss his physical presence… I either need to reach out to him and see if he will hear me out; or I need to squash this potential regret somehow“- I think it is your suppressed need and desire of childhood and adolescence to be seen and heard by those who won’t, that is acting out at this time.
“The interesting thing about the tiger dream was that.. My level of fear/anxiety was equivalent to the aggression or affection of the tiger. Low fear and the tiger was your friend… My anxiety was barely simmering and the tiger very slowly bit into my leg, insinuating that if I showed more fear I would be attacked. Then I woke up“- this reminds me of the spider (N) and the fly (Seaturtle) analogy that I made earlier: the fly caught in the spider’s web, vibrating it with fear, the spider notices and approaches the fly to attack/ prepare it as a meal.
“Still anxious Seaturtle“- can you watch a good movie/ listen to your favorite music.. do art, take a hot bath, so to relax?
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:55 pm #428370anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I feel also anxious you will be disappointed that I am doubting myself so much and not confident Seaturtle“- I am not at all disappointed, didn’t feel any inkling of disappointment. I like the sea turtle I got to know, the sea turtle I have the privilege of getting to know!
anita
March 4, 2024 at 6:22 pm #428371seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
<p class=”p1″>“he’d say that he has no words to describe how you made him feel.. wouldn’t he?”</p>- that is what I would imagine yes. The fear is what if..
<p class=”p1″>“it’s a fantasy that following just the right words and an explanation coming from you, he’d go through a metamorphosis. It’d take many months of active psychotherapy and lots of proactive work, and not using weed daily, to make such profound, deep changes.”</p>
- I am going to save this message in my phone so I can come back when these doubts come to my head. They aren’t gone but these are the affirmations I need, which tells me my third eye is tired? I wonder why I have these doubts so intensely the past couple weeks, so you that text exchange just really impacted me more than I can still even give it credit?
<p class=”p1″>“there is a fitting saying: you can’t squeeze water (introspection, insight etc.) out of a stone (a person whose regularly stoned, pun intended)”</p>
- this is funny, and I will try to remind myself this as I attempt to simmer my fears. Fears I have a feeling will return until I’ve fully believed it.
<p class=”p1″>“fantasy.”</p>
- Ok. I believe you. I also wonder what is this fantasy fulfilling in me to keep? I once learned in therapy that “you’re struggling to make the change because the old behavior is still meeting a need.” So I wonder what is this need, why am I having a painful fantasy that he could have evolved for me. Why am I doing this to myself.
<p class=”p1″>“I think it is your suppressed need and desire of childhood and adolescence to be seen and heard by those who won’t, that is acting out at this time.”</p>
- interesting. Perhaps this is the need right here, for some reason fantasizing him seeing me is still fulfilling a need… as it did in the relationship. My need to be seen. So all of this is because I still don’t feel seen, even by me? I feel seen my you, by my roommate who I enjoy spending time with, and I feel I have worked so hard to see me that it seems impossible that I don’t at least see more than before. So why do I need this, because of childhood lack… so the real question is how do I fill it.
<p class=”p1″>“this reminds me of the spider (N) and the fly (Seaturtle) analogy that I made earlier: the fly caught in the spider’s web, vibrating it with fear, the spider notices and approaches the fly to attack/ prepare it as a meal.”</p>
- wow this is eerily similar.
“can you watch a good movie/ listen to your favorite music.. do art, take a hot bath, so to relax?“
- Yes I will do this. I sadly cannot take a bath yet because of my surgery incisions but a hot shower will do. I am going to make dinner and watch a nostalgic show. After expressing myself here, and even more in my notes, I feel I released enough to relax for tonight. Thank you for being here this evening, I am going to save your responses from tonight to potentially re-read.
I will be back tomorrow, but will have more time on Wednesday when I don’t work. Have a good night Anita,
less anxious and exhausted seaturtle
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