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What is love?

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  • #53052
    Archie
    Participant

    It’s been a long time since I’ve been wondering. What is love? Is it something that leaves you with no choice than to give up everything for its sake? Or is it something that does everything in its power to make you achieve all your dreams? Is it selfish or selfless? Or rather self-destructing?
    Never in my life I have come across anything that would help me in deciphering the real meaning and the real face of love. The purest form of love that I have ever known is the one I have got from my family. No matter where I go or whatever I do, it’s the one place I can always go back to. I never found it in the glance of that person I thought I loved. Neither did I find it in those compliments he used to give me. But yes, I did find it once in the eyes of a friend whom I had spurned. Why? Just because his love was the only thing he had hidden from me. Or perhaps because I had lost the friend he was. I still don’t know. And I never got a chance to apologise, just like I can never get my friend back.
    I don’t know if it’s my Karma or something else, I have never been able to love or open up since. Not that I loved him, but I did care for him. Now he is happy and I am comfortable with myself. But sometimes I wonder what I did, was he worth it? Obviously not. Every time I think about him, I remember his face from our last day at school when he asked for a photograph with me. As soon as I came back home, I deleted it.

    • This topic was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Archie.
    #53056
    The Ruminant
    Participant

    To answer the question “what is love?” I like to refer to the Greek definition of love, and it’s not the same word for all kinds of love: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love

    I think it helps in distinguishing the different things that we call love and not confuse them with each other. I think that the more mundane forms of love like romantic love and the love of your family and friends are somewhat selfish. Unconditional love is selfless. You can feel all of them, and all of them have their place, but they are different. I think that love can also become more mature as the person matures. This doesn’t have to do anything with actual age, but just being an emotionally mature person.

    Which reminds me of a funny thing I saw in Pinterest: “Dear people who think Romeo and Juliet is a romantic love story: It was a relationship that lasted three days between a 13 yr old and a 17 yr old, and resulted in 6 deaths.” To be fair, for some people that would be the definition of love: something that is explosive and dramatic. It’s not really love unless someone gets hurt. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, except if they think that it’s the only possible way to love someone and end up equating love with hurt. But I think I’m digressing again… I tend to do that 🙂

    #53058
    Archie
    Participant

    It is pretty obvious that love has its own set of different connotations, based on the relationships we share with people. But the bottom line in every case is a foundation that comprises of care, respect and understanding- regardless of the relationship. What I fail to understand is the exaggeration that the term ‘love’ has become and what it does to people (ref. to Romeo and Juliet 🙂 )

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Archie.
    • This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Archie.
    #53061
    Archie
    Participant

    ‘Love’ as in ‘agape+eros”

    #53062
    BRUNO
    Participant

    In your own words Archie,love is something which has many descriptions but resists definition- it could be the God particle for all we know.if you call it a Force emotion feeling or action you could be right and wrong at the same time.It is an elusive essence which can only be experimented but never possessed.You have to resist the temptation to classify it as well I believe as that can only lead to a division of it’s true meaning.Your post has two sides to it, one that your experience of it has left you confused as to what you really felt if at all you managed to feel it , or to question if what you felt might or might not have been what could be called love.That is your experience of it – in that for even a brief moment you could feel all its facets up to and including it’s absence- which is what lead you to delete the photograph.This is just another experience of love, unfortunately in this case the only way we can make contact with it is by experiencing all the range of emotions which are it’s by product including sadness and pain while we hope to feel joy and elation in the future.Hope it helps you make sense of it all.

    #53067
    Archie
    Participant

    Thanks for your interpretation of my dilemma. I would also like to add that I never loved that guy. I did care for him as he was the closest I had to a best friend. But I never loved him. What I don’t understand and loathe about this whole situation is the way I distanced him. At that time, I couldn’t bring myself to imagine that my friend could have such feelings for me. Though I understand it now that what I thought and did was wrong, I just couldn’t accept him at that time. Since then, for some unknown reason, I have never been in a serious relationship. Be it romantic or at a level of friendship.

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Archie.
    #53072
    Matt
    Participant

    Archie,

    From here, it seems like perhaps you have a difficult time accepting your ignorance, the unknown, the potential. Said differently, perhaps a better direction to aim would be “what am I afraid of?”

    It reminds me of a story I heard from a woman now in her thirties. When she was in highschool, she had a deep friendship with a boy. Their intimacy was strong, they laughed a lot, had a lot of fun. Then, he asked her out. As soon as she said yes, she became terrified, and dodged him in the halls. At night, she would lay in bed and say “OK, tomorrow, I’m just going to go up to him and kiss him”. But then, as soon as she saw him, she’d dart away, go hide. After a week, one of their mutual friends came up to her and said he wanted to break up with her. She was so relieved, and could finally hang out with her now ex again. For her, there was a strong fear, an uncomfortableness, that came up when the boundaries became muddied, changed.

    Usually, when people are feeling a lack of love or connectedness with friends or their partners, it has to do with that fear rather than some “mystery of love”. Love blossoms when there is space for it to grow, and fear collapses that space. Said differently, consider that perhaps “I don’t feel love for anyone but my family” is the same as saying “I feel afraid to open up to anyone but my family”. The question becomes: why? Are you afraid that you don’t know how to dance? Afraid that you should know all the steps already? That someone will see behind the veil and decide you’re not lovable? That being in love obligates you to give up something? What? Why?

    With warmth,
    Matt

    #53076
    BRUNO
    Participant

    We are obviously talking of a love /bond type between two persons attracted to each other.I am more convinced that the dating game at least for me can produce no fruitful relationship- it only leads a state of quasi-dilemma between friends which can spiral out of control.When something is spontaneous it should be let to grow. If not, the hundreds upon hundreds of iterations possible when the next level is suddenly introduced can induce a state of panic which is capable of destroying a friendship and possibly a real union between couples-

    both times i have attempted something more serious with a girls i really liked on the surface , they both did the same thing, the other two occasions were spontaneous and unexpected but much more powerful and with less anxiety even though they did not grow further ; a time and a place and a direction is what you need to bring two people together in love.

    #53090
    Archie
    Participant

    Sometimes there is a fear that lurks in our hearts that constantly asks the question ‘what if..’. This fear of the unknown (also the irrelevant most of the times) gets so much ingrained in our minds that we start to build a shield that drives away every possible chance that might come in our way. We try to reject that chance before its outcome rejects us (or accepts us). And this feeling is so strong that it gets very hard for us to come out of it. But perhaps time is really the solution to most of our problems.

    #53097
    Matt
    Participant

    Archie,

    Thank you for opening up a little, and I’m empathetic to your suffering. Sometimes when we’ve had a critical parent, or otherwise experience love that feels conditional, we can become scared that just around the corner is some choice we make that will be devastating, destructive to our peace. This pushes us to close off, put up veils, walls, to hide. And yet, inside us is a deep yearning to connect, to be seen, heard, touched, tasted. This creates an exhausting tension between wanting to connect, and being scared to death to connect, or feeling unworthy of that connection. A few things came to heart as I read your words.

    Consider that perhaps you’re looking in the wrong place for your self value. You’re not lovable because of something you do, the way you look, the way you think… you’re lovable because of the energy and reality that flows through you. Trying to know everything, being perceived as an expert, being seen as capable, as strong… all collapse under the weight of the “what ifs”, because your mind is very powerful and creative. Said differently, sometimes we try to seek enough knowledge to feel safe, to be free from fear. This fails. Instead, we can grow our courage, which gives us genuine freedom from fear. Fear doesn’t stop arising, rather, it stops inspiring our actions, our hiding. “Oh, yeah, this feels like fear… let’s try it anyway.”

    In the growth of our path, this shows up by asking the questions that actually matter to us, to those that can help us. For instance, instead of approaching a teacher, and attempting to sell them a version of ourselves that is strong, put together, to prove we deserve their attention, we can simply accept that they are there for us, and ask them the questions that really trouble us. I remember a physics class that I did poorly in many years ago because I was seen as the smart one, and so when I had questions, I felt scared to ask because it might shatter that image. Luckily, I met a few uncompromising teachers that had the ability to ferret out my veils, invite me to set down that image, and help me come to a stable inner ground.

    In romance, it is much the same. We feel that romance blossoms because we are beautiful, smart, funny. This is not true. Romance blossoms when two people both show up. They say what’s on their mind, in their heart, and share in that space, that vulnerability. “I don’t know how to kiss”, for instance, can be simply shared with someone. The what ifs turn that into a shameful “I’m ignorant and broken, no value to a mate in the kissing department”. However, when we just relax and admit our ignorance to our partner, we get to go on a journey of exploration and learning about ourselves and each other as we figure out what we like, what they like. “I don’t know how to do a relationship” becomes a shared exploration of mutual needs and expectations. No rules, no perfect way of kissing or relating… just you, what comes to you, him/her, and what comes to him/her. Heart to heart, free, open. What you like, what he/she likes.

    Consider reading some of Brene Brown’s work on shame and overcoming it. Her book Daring Greatly approaches shame in a very helpful way, and has soothed the fears of many isolated souls. Her TED talk “The Power of Vulnerability” is also wonderful, and may resonate with you as well. As we feel fear, dive in anyway, and work through whatever comes of it, we become confident, resilliant. Sure, we might trip and fall a bazillion times, stub our toes or our hearts, but we can weather failure, nurse our toe, and get back up, keep walking. Along the way, we become more skillful, and then the what ifs lose their power to control us.

    Finally, consider doing some loving kindness meditation. When we are children, we are ignorant of where our inner light comes from, and try to hide and protect it from nature, chaos, others. As we mature, grow up, step forward as the goddess we are, we realize that our light is unquenchable, grown from our endless, gentle kindness and support we have given to ourselves and our extended human family. “Sharon Salzburg guided metta meditation” is on YouTube, if you’re interested.

    Namaste, dear sister, may you find your strength.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    #53113
    Archie
    Participant

    Thank you very much Matt for your insight! Namaste!

    #53122
    anonymous
    Participant

    Archie,
    First of all , you deserve kudos for being graceful enough to accept that your friend did not deserve your rejection . Look at this way, maybe he didn’ t deserve this but it might have been the need of he hour.Accepting his proposal might have been not worth it because how could have you entered into a relationship if you were not prepared for it and you had not that feeling of love for that guy.
    The way your family loves you is the purest form of love. It seems like you have made this ‘love’ as a benchmark . You can only open up to people when you keep aside your judgements and fears which have been defining your relationships till now.

    #53132
    The Ruminant
    Participant

    Archie, I came across something this morning I want to share with you. I’m using this thread for that, and I hope it’s OK 🙂 I know you wrote about having a hard time trusting others in another thread, but I can’t remember which one it was!

    Anyway, I found this author, David Richo, some time ago. I, too, have problems similar to yours. I’m used to thinking more than feeling and I get a bit flustered when I’m supposed to open myself up in a romantic situation. It’s awkward for me and I don’t quite understand intimacy. I know why that is and I think it’s kind of unimportant what the reason is, but I know that I have a hard time trusting and opening up. So, I found David Richo’s books and got couple of them for myself. Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to read them through just yet (I get a lot of books and have them on my “to do” list for ages). However, everything I’ve read thus far has been really interesting. I thought you might like his thoughts as well.

    Here are some quotes from him: http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/186080.David_Richo

    I got his book, “How to Be an Adult in Relationships: The Five Keys to Mindful Loving”, because I know that when I get scared of intimacy, I start to act childishly. It’s how I deal with that fear, and I’m aware of it. Or at least, that’s how I’ve dealt with it before. I haven’t attempted to have a relationship now, since it’s more important for me to have a good relationship with myself first. http://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Adult-Relationships-Mindful-ebook/dp/B00HZ374KY/ref=la_B000APU8IO_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395298157&sr=1-1

    Another one, which might be interesting for you as well, is “Daring to Trust: Opening Ourselves to Real Love and Intimacy”. http://www.amazon.com/Daring-Trust-Opening-Ourselves-Intimacy-ebook/dp/B00HZ374HM/ref=la_B000APU8IO_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395298157&sr=1-5

    But even if you don’t get the books, I think you might also find something interesting in his quotes and writings that are found online.

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