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December 22, 2024 at 2:49 pm #440931
HelcatParticipantI’m kind of busy at the moment with exams.
The book I was reading goes on to explain about the process of letting go of negative emotions.
Essentially, the idea is to sit with the feeling, not pay attention to thoughts, focusing only on the feeling. Not trying to change the feeling and just accepting it, letting it be.
This is kind of difficult for me because I have always been attached to the idea of things changing. Overcoming. Even that has to be let go. I have felt like the only constant thing is change.
There was another suggestion in the book. It explains that there can be resistance to focusing on the positive spectrum of emotions. And it suggests working on this.
I feel like things that hold me back in this area are fear of rejection, pride, desire, apathy, lack of trust.
Instead of just saying how I truly feel. What I truly want and need. I let other people be my yard stick for how to proceed.
The book spoke about negative emotions being a result of the ego. And things like love and compassion being a result of the higher self.
I’m trying to work on saying how I feel.
December 22, 2024 at 3:22 pm #440933HelcatParticipantThe book talks about seeing ourselves as a victim and blaming others as offering us things. I thought that was a good insight.
I highlights that we are responsible for buying into negativity.
I have been trying to protect myself from negative programming. But not been doing a very good job of it. I blame myself for giving my husband too much time and not protecting myself and our son sooner. I blame myself for being in this situation.
December 23, 2024 at 12:02 pm #440962
shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
Well, guilt is a hellish thing; and it’s hard to say,’well that was in the past’; I have changed, and am not the same person. But the truth is that you are not the same person, and will not likely make those ‘mistakes’ again. I know how hard it is to forgive oneself. Maybe the best we can so is say, ‘Well, I’ll never do that again.” Change does have something to teach us here. The old expression is, “This too will pass.” which applies to the good and the bad times.
I like the idea of simply watching these thoughts float by, but it’s very difficult to not get sucked into the mire, while doing so.
What are you studying?
….. johnDecember 24, 2024 at 1:42 pm #440985HelcatParticipantHi John
Thank you for your kindness. ❤️
That is how I forgive myself. It’s interesting to me that you recommend the same method. 😊
It sounds like you have done some work on forgiveness in the past?
I wasn’t feeling guilty though. I think ashamed would be closer to the truth.
I was getting sucked into the mire, so to speak.
Sometimes I get stuck, so I was trying to figure things out by interacting with the thoughts to see what I could learn.
It was effectively, a waste of time. But I did learn one other thing. That all of these difficulties stem from the ego trying to protect itself.
Yes, there is one thing that I know to be true and it is that everything changes.
I’m currently studying IT.
Today was a better day for me because I didn’t identify with feelings as they arose, knowing that they were focused on protecting my ego. I am not my ego, my ego is not me. What helps one may harm the other. My needs are different from the needs of my ego. It was helpful to realise that.
Love, peace and blessings! ❤️🙏
December 25, 2024 at 7:58 am #441008shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
Well, I’m not particularly good at forgiving myself. I usually think, well that was that was stupid, or thoughtless or selfish, and I won’t do that again. But that was one of my ‘great revelations, when I first adopted Buddhism. The exact thought was, “You’re doing this ALL WRONG!”
It’s interesting that you came to the same conclusion as something I read a couple of years ago; about the ego’s investment in protecting itself. Aside from that though, I’m very wary of the courses of action my mind/ego sometimes proposes; which is why I became interested in ‘ego death’, some time ago. Having said that though, the experts say that it is not only impossible, and would be harmful, to ‘kill’ ones ego, since it apparently plays a vital role in our mental landscape. (I don’t know the proper terms for what I’m trying to say.) Yes, it’s good to keep one’s thoughts at arms length. They’re not always helpful and are, at times, counterproductive to one’s well being.
Ah, not guilt, but shame. Yes, I can see the difference, shame being more devastating, I imagine. After our discussion, I woke up the next morning with a thought about guilt (my mind often ruminates on unresolved questions when I’m sleeping); and oddly, connecting it with being happy. My thought was, ‘Is it possible to be happy in the midst of misery?’; or maybe more to the point, ‘can one be happy if they live with someone who is unhappy’. Would one feel ashamed/guilty for being happy in such a situation; that it’s just ‘not right’. Misery likes misery, not happy. Anyway, I’m off track here.
Information Technology, now THAT’S an interesting topic. I’ll bet that’s full of revelations. Along that line, most of us function on the premise that we’re motivated by reason; but science would suggest that, in order to be confident about one’s conclusions, one would want to derive that conclusion from a 95 out of 100 similar results. Well, that’s not how we reach conclusions. For most of us, one abusive incident is enough. So much for humans being motivated by reason.
Yes, it’s a contradiction, change is the only constant. I see everything from the perspective of change. As I mentioned, somewhere else, our refusal to adapt to, and embrace, change, is the source of much of our suffering. It’s ubiquitous, everywhere. It’s the nature of existence. I’m getting off my podium now 😉
I hope you, and everyone, has an enjoyable Christmas.
…. johnDecember 25, 2024 at 2:52 pm #441018HelcatParticipantHi John
Is anyone good at forgiving themselves? It is certainly a process.
I can understand the fascination with ego death. It always seemed like a lot of effort to me. Perhaps more achievable for someone with a less troublesome ego. 😂
My uneducated guess would be that ego is part of a balance. It serves a function, but stepping back from it and making decisions judiciously is important.
What do you think?
You bring up some interesting questions.
I can understand why someone could feel guilty about being happy whilst another person isn’t. But I feel like it’s not necessary. Happiness is such a complicated thing. We could probably wax and wane about happiness for a while. 😊
My thoughts are that whatever someone chooses to do is what they want. Some people are only happy when they are unhappy.
I do believe that it is possible to be happy in the midst of misery. A peace in the eye of the storm kind of situation. But it takes practice.
Children are very good at it. Despite the horrors at home I made the best of things. I loved escaping to stories. Playing games. Spending time with friends. In these moments I was happy and forgot for a time about the difficulties I was dealing with.
I think it becomes more difficult as we get older. Depression sets in. At a certain point, only being miserable feels comfortable. But with practice it’s possible to learn to appreciate things again. Meditation and gratitude practice was very helpful with that for me. It helped to create spaces between my thoughts and in those spaces I started to find light in the world again.
IT isn’t new to me. I’ve studied this before. I just didn’t turn in my work at the end of the 2nd year last time. I want to finish what I started. 😊
I would agree that it isn’t necessarily reason that people are motivated by. There was a barbaric study on baby monkeys. They gave them the option of food or comfort and they would choose to starve and be comforted. People are similar.
I agree. I realised recently that my husband is unhappy not just because of our difficulties. I think that he is having difficulty with the lifestyle of being a father. It is hard work, tiring, with a lot of sacrifice.
I have been through those feelings myself. But I made peace with it. It doesn’t seem like he has.
Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Love, peace and blessings! ❤️🙏
December 26, 2024 at 11:49 am #441049shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
I couldn’t agree more, stepping back from one’s ego allows us to make wiser decision.
“… whatever someone chooses to do is what they want.” Hmm …. I’m not so sure. Guilt is a very powerful force;
and people will go to extremes to free themselves of it, including not being upbeat in the presence of one who is suffering, and giving money, etc. to those who have little. I’m normally a very happy person, but I feel uncomfortable being cheerful and upbeat in the presence of someone who is suffering; perhaps it’s just me.
It’s clear to me that you have come a VERY long way in life. I would venture to say, further than many with fewer obstacles to overcome; and I’m quite sure that you’re nowhere near finished blooming.
…. johnDecember 27, 2024 at 3:47 am #441052HelcatParticipantHi John
That is very kind of you to say! 😊 Yes, I still have a lot to learn. I want to be able to teach my son and to help him.
Life isn’t really about me anymore.
I’m still learning about guilt. The book I’m reading at the moment is talking about it. I don’t really notice guilt unless it’s particularly strong. But according to the book it seems like guilt touches a lot of different things in life, with people even feeling guilty about having emotions. I haven’t really noticed it because it is quite a subtle emotion at lower levels and I tend to have other stronger emotions.
I think it depends on the level of suffering that the individual is in. Socially it is appropriate not to respond with happiness. But it’s only when someone is suicidal that I would become concerned.
I have been around a lot of people who have experienced suffering. I noticed that it is harder when it someone that you care deeply about.
I tend to think of others as responsible for their own emotions. So it isn’t too much of a worry when someone is sad. It’s just a normal expression of emotion to me. It’s a good thing really to let these things out when they become overwhelming. It’s a blessing to be able to share feelings with other people, instead of being alone with it.
Why do you think you feel uncomfortable when people are suffering? Would you care to elaborate on that?
Love, peace and blessings! ❤️🙏
December 27, 2024 at 2:53 pm #441064shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
I’m not being kind, just honest. I think you’ve come a loooong way.
I never really noticed guilt until I started to delve into what motivates me. I think that when
you’ve hurt someone, who has done nothing to deserve it, that’s when the guilt settles in,
and justifiably so. Guilt seems to be rampant in our society. Merchants employ it constantly,
in order to get people to buy; for example: an engagement ring, valentine’s day presents, Christmas presents, looking after others: your aging mother, your children, vaccinations, diets, you name it; anything that has an undertone of ‘should’ in it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that these things are bad or wrong; but guilt is a BIG motivator for getting people to do ‘the right thing’.
I’ve never heard that, about being guilty over having feelings. That’s wild!
I’ve had some experience with potential suicides , having worked on the distress lines for years; and they’re very difficult to deal with. I had a caller once who spilled out a litany of problems he was dealing with, and it was pitiful; then he asked me, “Tell me why I shouldn’t take my life?” You talk about being put on the spot. It makes me shake to think of it.
Yes, of course, sadness is nothing to get strung out over, we all have it at some time or another.
I think it’s therapeutic to get this stuff off one’s chest, that’s why, at the distress centre, they encouraged us to ‘talk it out’ with other members. Fortunately, my wife (who was also on the lines) and I, had each other to talk with.
Why do I feel uncomfortable when others are suffering? To be honest, I’m not sure. You see, I live by a double standard. I feel that I’m the source of my own suffering. It’s my reaction to life, to other people, to illness, etc. that causes me to suffer. No one else is responsible. On the other hand, I know that most people don’t subscribe to this belief; so, for me to exact my beliefs on them would be unfeeling and insensitive; and of course, most us don’t like to see others suffer, that’s only human. I know that that doesn’t answer the question, but that’s all I have.
This is what I used to tell tell callers to the distress lines.
…. john
P.S. When I had a depressed caller on the distress lines, I normally told them that, it won’t help anyone if you go down the toilet.December 27, 2024 at 10:29 pm #441065HelcatParticipantHi John
Oh yes, definitely and in religion too.
I think the example was feeling guilty about being angry at someone. I expect I will have to do some work on understanding my motivations too.
That is a very difficult job. And when you were doing it you were responsible for the caller’s safety. It’s a unique position to be in because every caller to a distress line is potentially suicidal. You would have had to be extremely aware of what is going on and extremely careful. These kinds of jobs often take a toll on the people who work them.
Perhaps these feelings are related to that job?
You are right. It is distressing when someone threatens suicide. It is considered a form of abuse to do that. I’m sorry that you experienced that. It was a very brave and kind thing that you were doing helping people in need. I’m glad that you and your wife both had each other’s support.
Fortunately for me, my experiences dealing with suicidal people were not in a professional setting, so I haven’t had the pressure of responsibility over handling the situation. That would be very intense. It has mostly just been family and friends for me.
Love, peace and blessings! ❤️🙏
December 29, 2024 at 7:54 am #441080shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
I don’t recall ever feeling guilty about being angry with someone. I rarely get angry, over anything.
Yes, understanding motivations can be a challenge. I’ve felt for a while now, that they’re crucial to understanding myself. When I speak of motivation, I don’t mean, why I like certain things or even why I do certain things, I mean the big motivation(s), what is my agenda in life, what gets me up in the morning, ‘what am I REALLY trying to do here’ (with my life). I recall saying, somewhere else, realizing, some years ago, that ‘I am the ephemeral seeking the eternal’. I realized this, when I looked back over my life at the things I had tried to accomplish, and they all let to that conclusion. There’s lots of interesting theories out there, re motivations, that might strike a cord.
True, every caller to the distress lines could be suicidal, but very few are. I’ve never heard that suicidal threats are a form of abuse. That wouldn’t be my conclusion. We were told that suicidal calls are mostly a plea for help or attention. The most common calls we got were lonely people, just wanting to talk, and people (mostly women) being abused by a spouse or partner. These were as tough as the suicide calls, because you wanted to help, but all you could really do was listen. Of course, the normal response (from those who hadn’t experienced such abuse) was ‘why don’t you just leave him’; however, things are rarely that cut and dried; so that suggestion was to be avoided. I imagine that dealing with family and friends in these situations would be even more difficult than being on the distress lines, since we didn’t have any personal ties to the callers, and didn’t have to wade though that mine field. I don’t envy you those discussions.
…. johnDecember 30, 2024 at 2:05 pm #441119HelcatParticipantHi John
I feel like rarely getting angry is a healthy place to be.
“The ephemeral seeking the eternal” is a complicated phrase. Would you like to explain a bit more about that and your motivations through your life? I’m curious about any theories regarding motivations too.
I’m a pretty simple person. I don’t really think about these things. Life has been really complicated for me for a long time. I really have just been trying to survive. Trying to overcome my difficulties and now trying to raise my son.
The way I think about the world is that people as a species exist to help each other and to breed. Every job in the world involves some kind of helping.
Some people say that karma is dictated at birth. I feel like my birth karma has led me to where I am today. But there is some agency in choice.
The reason it is seen as a form of abuse is because it is traumatic for the person to be on the receiving end of threats of suicide.
Personally, I see suicidal ideation as a desire for pain to stop. I can see hearing people talking about their experiences of being abused as being difficult too. I tried volunteering at a domestic violence charity but unfortunately, my PTSD wasn’t a good fit.
You and your wife did some amazing work helping people in need. I think that you’re both very special to help people like that.
I think it was difficult for me because I dealt with the bulk of it as a child. My biological mother who was extremely abusive made repeated attempts and self-harmed. And my adopted sister self-harmed and threatened suicide. I grew up around it, but because of that I have been rather resilient with my own habits of passive suicidal ideation. I was determined not to do something like that unless I was sure and I thought it best not to dwell on those thoughts.
It has been an intrusive thought that pops up in my life. Unwanted and something I’ve been trying to be rid of for a while now.
Now that I think about it, I haven’t had those thoughts since I’ve been trying out the letting go practices. That’s a blessing.
I do think as an adult it is easier to help people that you know with difficulties, rather than strangers. Some people respond differently to different things. It helps knowing how people respond to things and what they need.
Love, peace and blessings! ❤️🙏
December 30, 2024 at 2:46 pm #441120HelcatParticipantIt has been a weird day for me. A lot of grief has come up in regards to my pets.
I find myself dwelling on it all briefly on a daily basis. Not for long, seconds. A fleeting thought.
Seeing cat food at the corner store reminds me of my cats.
Seeing the doy dog out of the corner of my eye. He reminds me of his sister and I turn to see her, only she isn’t there.
Looking at the new pup and thinking that she is a good girl but can’t replace my old girl.
It is hard for me to look at him without thinking about when he might die because of his inoperable tumour.
And when I walk the dogs, I wonder about my cat that went missing.
I tried so hard to help the dogs, draining all of my savings because I wasn’t able to help my cat who died at home suddenly after moving house.
I haven’t been dealing with the grief. It has been a rough year and with the difficulties with my husband I have been rather distracted and haven’t processed these feelings fully.
I believe that being around something or someone rubs off on you. I also think that memories and time spent together makes things more meaningful.
I don’t think I’ll ever forget them and they will hold a place in my heart and mind forever.
What has been hard is looking at pictures and feeling like I’m forgetting exactly what they look like. I still remember the gist. The markings. Mistaking another cat for mine. That was hard. I wanted to believe that she was alive and okay.
I know that they were just borrowed, gifts from the universe (as are we all). They were all special to me and a great comfort. It is going to be hard when my boy who is basically an untrained PTSD dog passes. He can tell when I have episodes and comforts me.
Even grief over my relationship with my husband came up. Mourning the effects of the difficulties on the relationship for the past year.
I know from experience that at some point the pain gets easier once you’ve processed it enough. It can take some time to do though.
Also, I’m coming to terms with anxiety around my health and exercise.
I realised because of taking beta blockers that bodily sensations scare me and contribute to my fear.
I almost died due to health issues and couldn’t walk for a time in my 20s. It’s taken a toll. I pushed myself really hard to keep my dogs. Walking them despite being in agony and not having the strength to hold them.
Now, I get anxious when I exercise. I get afraid because I know that if I do too much I will trigger a flare up and I’ll be in a lot of pain. And when I get anxious pain sensitivity increases and muscle tension increases. Also, it is just about the only time when I’m alone. The only time I have to think and process my emotions.
Today has been a lot.
December 31, 2024 at 11:25 am #441151shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
Let me start by saying that you should take everything I say with a grain of salt. My words (thoughts) come from a life which has been dramatically easier than your own; as a result, I have NO in-depth understanding of the things with which you’ve had to deal. Your circumstances have not afforded you the luxury of mulling over the more esoteric aspect of life; since most of your energy has been spent in struggling just to survive, in keeping it together, and not being overcome by trauma. It is interesting where one finds one’s teachers. Without realizing it, you have pointed out to me how sheltered and limited a life I have lived, experience wise. You are a blessing.
I’ve never thought ‘the ephemeral seeking the eternal’ to be complicated; probably because it seemed to explain so well the reason for the goals I’ve set for myself, since I was a young. However, in just the last few days I’ve begun to wonder if, what I’ve assumed for years, i.e. that ‘I’m motivated to seek the eternal’ is really what’s going on. So, I don’t think I can answer your question right now; hopefully later, after the dust settles😉.
I hear what you’re saying about why we exist as a species. Do you actually mean that our species exists to help each other and to breed; or do you mean that this is why we have flourished as a species?
I don’t subscribe to the commonly held belief, that Karma is some sort of universal force of justice, which ensures that ‘bad people’ eventually suffer for inflicting pain and ‘good people’ are rewarded for helping others. I actually see karma as simply cause and effect, nothing more. But yes, I’m quite sure that your birth and upbringing have resulted in your present circumstances, just as mine has led me to where I am. There’s no fairness to the whole thing. And, I can see how PTSD and helping victims of violence might not be a good fit at this time. That’s just a little too raw and close to home; maybe in future. It’s a positive sign though, that you see going down the suicide route as harmful; I suspect many see it as an escape.
Letting go works eh? That’s good!
…. johnDecember 31, 2024 at 1:41 pm #441153HelcatParticipantHi John
It’s honestly totally fine. I really enjoy our conversations.
Don’t get me wrong. I did some mulling as a teenager. 😂 I just came to the conclusion that it is a very personal thing for people. To find our own path is important. Everyone is on their own unique journey.
I also did some mulling in more recent years. I was trying to figure out my purpose. What would make me happy because I was suffering. And then I realized that I was already doing what I wanted. Fear provides safety. People are comfortable with what they know. I suffered, so I was comfortable with suffering. Once I understood why I was doing what I was doing, I could understand how to change it. If that makes any sense? I had to learn to step outside of my comfort zone. Learn to love myself, to create a new normal for myself, push myself to build a life for myself instead of just surviving.
As a species, I would say both. But there are other things that make us successful as a species. Cooking, farming, memory, intellect, creativity, stamina to name a few.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts about your journey and your path when they are more collected. Some would say that the eternal is already within you.
Limiting suffering, being happy, taking care of my health, pets and family. Spending time with loved ones. Helping people. I don’t really need much else. I’m okay being a simple person. 😊
Whilst my life has been challenging, I have also been incredibly lucky to have had the support that I needed. Not many people bounce back from the experiences that I’ve had. I’ve had a lot of help from many different people. I could be a drug addict or dead, but I’m not. Things can always be worse, some people are not fortunate enough to get the help they need.
These days my esoteric mulling is related to spirituality and growing as a person.
I don’t think it’s a bad thing to not have the same experiences. Everyone has their own unique journey. A lot of the things that you have experienced, I’m sure that I haven’t. That is why it is nice to talk to people with different experiences.
Yeah, I don’t subscribe to that belief about good and bad people in karma either. I have seen people who do horrible things have good lives and be happy. I have seen good people suffer. I have also seen bad people suffer and good people live good lives. It is a bit of a mixed bag. All we can really do is the best we can with what we are given. True, cause and effect is important and at times I feel unpredictable.
Yeah, hopefully in the future. 😊
How are you doing?
I’m doing okay today after letting a lot of things go yesterday. I’m trying to figure out stepping back from emotions and letting go of things. How the two might work together, at least in the meantime until I’m able to consistently step back.
Love, peace and blessings! ❤️🙏
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