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Loneliness, grief & ¿black magic?

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  • #402962
    faber castell
    Participant

    Many things have happened. All of my past sorrows, which I youthfully shared when I needed to have been left here and I have to admit, I don’t think they are healed, they are just behind me, since so much has changed in my life that has weighed so much more than heartbreaks with partners, etc. My mom passed away two years ago. She was my friend, my family, and all that I had left in terms of family relationships. My dad passed away when I was 14, I am now 35. If I used to have deep self-esteem issues, this has in some ways healed them, and in others, just deepened them. Since this has made me sensible in many ways. I had to care for my mother, and I did it gladly, and sadly. I felt a kind of love I hadn’t felt in a long time, wanting her to be okay, even if that meant leaving this earth was just a proof of it. I felt love but a the same time, for sure, I had to probably just protect myself in some ways, it was too much, it was 6 months of pure agony and pain. 2 months at an ICU, the love of my life was my momma. I was then very supported by angels, friends, and people who came to me without any expectation. People, in general, showed me love and I sometimes felt really sad to see that I had never felt that, even if I was truly grateful for it. I realized it was going to be hard on me eventually, if I stopped feeling this love that was sustaining me in the worst possible time of my life. I then pulled away from people who were selfish and bad friends, and it felt like everything was lighter, even in the midst of disease and sadness, I was full of love for my mom, and people were there to prove things can be better when were together. Sadly, of course I knew this was gonna eventually settle, not only the attention, but my own realisation of what my life would look and feel without her. And its awful. I won’t say it’s only her absence. I’m sure I struggled with the same things before, but this is truly confusing lately. I feel deeply alone. Deeply disconnected. I think I’m a good woman, friend, person, but at the time, I can totally affirm, there is no one who knows me and loves me unconditionally, or loves me at all. There’s a saying: deeply loved versus generally liked. I think I’m the latter. And it pains me, I now realise I shared a lot of this sadness with my mother and she was many, many times my shoulder to cry on, always trying to leave that safe home but at the same time, not being brave enough or loved enough or succesful in my relationships and endeavours enough to actually build more than what this website has already archived in its cloud of my experiences: intense relationships with some bad endings (?) or actually, pretty halfhearted lovers and me feeling frustrated, because I know I deserve more, but for some reason, cannot have it. And this is it. I see my life now and I need some place that looks and feels familiar, because I don’t have it anymore. I come here looking for my past and last testimonies and in the end, there’s some sense of who I was and who I am. But to be blunt and clear: my days look a lot like staying in, working A LOT (I write at a magazine and now we have to publish daily at a pace I cant ever feel rested), my salary is really not enough and my friends have mostly dissipated. I see them happy in their own lives and now I feel I have nothing of my own. Do you believe some part of you cannot exist anymore when someone you love dies or leaves? There was also a time in which I was told I had some black magic stuff on me (this is a VERY long story and it was not just a verbal thing) and at the time I prayed, I meditated and cleaned my home, and tried my best to forget about it. Nevertheless, the whole purpose of this “thing” was supposedly to cut all chords with people who loved me, to make me be lonely, and for my mother to pass. All of it appears to have some sort of sense, since things really do not end well, or build up to anything in general, not my job, my love life, etc. So I want to know, does anyone here believe in this? If this is the case, what is the best way to solve it and be okay? Also, how much loneliness is good for the soul and when does it start to become hurtful? Why why why can’t I build a community, I ask myself. I am attractive, I’m funny, I’m actually fun to be around. Have no clue. I’m sad, but I hope everyone here feels better today, than myself. Thanks for reading if you got this far.

    #402963
    faber castell
    Participant

    Also, If I may add, I know I am still greiving, and I no longer know what pain belongs where. The truth is I’m frustrated and mad that she had to go, even sometimes at her, and I miss her, I am afraid I’ll forget her… by becoming this weird version of myself who has no heart, or love, or who to express that love towards. I am truly just heartbroken, truly, have no idea where or how to go from here, especially when people are no longer around.

    #402966
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear faber castell:

    the love of my life was my momma” – this sentence touched my heart because I think that every mother is her child’s first love and this love is intense and complete.

    I was full of love for my mom… I feel deeply alone. Deeply disconnected… there is no one who knows me and loves me unconditionally, or loves me at all… (had) intense relationships with some bad endings…  I know I deserve more, but for some reason, cannot have it” –

    – I hope that you do get what you need: a feeling of togetherness, a deep connection with someone who loves you, a love story with a good ending.

    Do you believe some part of you cannot exist anymore when someone you love dies or leaves?” –  I suppose part of you dies when someone you love very much dies. But the nature of Life is that it Renews itself, life finds a way to reinvent itself.

    There was also a time in which I was told I had some black magic stuff on me…  this ‘thing’ was supposedly to cut all chords with people who loved me, to make me be lonely, and for my mother to pass. All of it appears to have some sort of sense, since things really do not end well, or build up to anything in general, not my job, my love life, etc. So I want to know, does anyone here believe in this? If this is the case, what is the best way to solve it and be okay?” – I do not believe in black magic. There are reasons Why things didn’t end well for you in regard to your love life, your job, etc., but it’s not black magic or any such thing, I believe.

    Also, how much loneliness is good for the soul and when does it start to become hurtful?” – we are social animals/ beings, we are not meant to be alone for too long. We are not meant to be lonely, although many of us are lonely.

    Why why why can’t I build a community, I ask myself. I am attractive, I’m funny, I’m actually fun to be around” – as to the why, in September 2014, in a previous thread, you shared in regard to a guy with whom you were in an on-again -off-again relationship for nine months: “I’m normally very explosive and while I’ve made a big effort to be calm.. he says my anger is horrible and my temper is out of proportion” –

    – is it possible that one answer to the Why is that you have been very explosive, your anger being horrible and out of proportion?

    anita

    #402969
    faber castell
    Participant

    Hello Anita, thank you for reading, always. I know last time you asked me a lot of things and you made me wonder so much what was going on with my heart, it seems it’s always in pain or something.

    Before, words helped me. Now I’m clearly lacking something else. I appreciate your good wishes and answers, though. I feel so clueless.

    In regards to your last question, I no longer feel like I have that much of an out of proportion temper. It seems to me so sad that I would say that, actually. Like so hard on myself and not entirely accurate, man, amazing. I realize too that those were words said by people who abused me several times… so it’s confusing. I wont say I didn’t make mistakes but, I now realize that the pattern of emotional abuse in my family is very complicated and sneaky. Now, after many years, I’ve realized they’re pathological narcissists, which is the reason why I don’t count on them for any of this. The way they treated me when my mother passed just did it for me and I could finally connect the dots and free myself. I now know that what I actually wanted was just nice words, nice tone, and be able to be myself: sweet as I actually am. This is, I guess, one of my most important frustrations in life, FOR SURE, I haven’t understood it all, so I must have a blindspot because I honestly think my case has been really unfortunate, and I don’t care about calling myself a victim, sometimes we have to do that in order to recognize what has happened, but at the same time, I feel so impotent.  Many times, I guess, it’s easier to believe you have something wrong you can fix, and not that actually, you’re pretty okay and people still will treat you poorly. Then, how can you fix that? Again, I of course have my mistakes, but I guess I’m too guarded now to actually go and open myself up to people who at my age are even more guarded, everyone is on a contest of who cares less about relationships and so on. Anyways, I know I can have a strong temper but it mostly comes when I’m already being abused… so, I guess sometimes it has “saved” me (not really cause they abused me more but at least I didn’t think I deserve it entirely). I realize now that there was a pattern of family emotional abuse I was suffering and many of my partners were not my allies but quite the contrary. In fact, I was speaking with my friends recently and we were commenting on how unfair it was that I had to grow up believing that, when in fact, I spent too long just defending myself, and was seldom just able to be my relaxed self without abuse coming towards me. I do not believe I have an explosive temperament anymore, it’s been ages since explosiveness has happened. But I haven’t really been able to relax entirely with someone anymore. I’m afraid I’m too guarded now, and if you ask my friends, they would say I’m the funniest, or peaceful person ever. I guess it had much to do with the abusive relationships I was in at the time, although I know some people will say I’m pretty sensitive. Back then in 2014, my god, that boyfriend I had was jealous, didn’t wwant me to wear make up, forced me to stay in a room during fights… I mean, no way. BUT anyways, I don’t want to defend everything about myself, I want to learn, to be better, to give and receive, people say I have a good heart, and I think that. I also believe I am very serious about treating people well, and I havent gotten that, many, many times. So, what would you say? How can we solve this idea of not needing people but at the same time needing them? When coaches and therapists say we should give ourselves what we havent received from others, physical affection? community? what do we do with that? I dont’ want to beg for love, or take breadcrumbing, neither I want to be alone forever. Also, what if I want to be soft but I see, with good sense, that some people wont value that. I move on, I have no control over this, but I still feel the void, I am still, not loved in that sense.

     

    Thank you for reading again.

    #402970
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear faber castell:

    I will be able to read your recent post and reply when I am back to the computer in about 10 hours from now.  I am looking forward to communicate with you further.

    anita

    #402995
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear faber castell:

    (my heart).. it seems it’s always in pain or something… I feel so clueless… It’s confusing… I want to learn, to be better, to give and receive“, yesterday.

    I want to offer you something useful regarding why it seems like your heart is always in pain and why you feel confused and clueless. I want to encourage you to learn and get better (in my reply today, and in future replies, if you choose to continue to communicate with me). For this purpose, I will study your recent posts of June 23, 2022, and your past posts beginning on November 18, 2013, not at great length, just enough.

    In your most recent post, you expressed the following regarding your anger: “I no longer feel like I have that much of an out of proportion temper… I know I can have a strong temper but it mostly comes when I’m already being abused… I spent too long just defending myself… (from) abuse coming towards me… it’s been ages since explosiveness has happened… I guess it had much to do with the abusive relationships I was in at the time, although I know some people will say I’m pretty sensitive” –

    – I see two issues in this quote of (1) defending vs offending & misperceptions: there are plenty of people who believe- or so they claim- that they are defending themselves while in reality, they are offending someone else. For example: my mother claimed that I intended to offend her (not true) and therefore she was defending herself by screaming at me, beating me, etc. She misperceived- or lied- that I had an intention that I did not have. I am not saying that this is your case. I am suggesting possibilities, (2) co-abuse: in the case of abuse in adult romantic relationships, it is rare that one party is The Perpetrator and the other is The Victim. Often each party is both the perpetrator and the victim.

    In your recent post, you shared this regarding your experience with your family: “the pattern of emotional abuse in my family is very complicated and sneaky. Now, after many years, I’ve realized they’re pathological narcissists…  I realize now that there was a pattern of family emotional abuse I was suffering“.

    I will now read through your previous threads looking for relevant information to the above:

    On Sept 4, 2014, you shared about something that happened the day before, something that turned out to be a negatively powerful experience in your life: “he tried to get closer and hugged me… we went to take…  a shower together. It was the most intimate moment, he kissed me and hugged me and we stayed for hours under the water just hugging until he started touching me… When we got out of the shower he.. (said) ‘it was a mistake because I still wanted to break up with you’. I said wow, I think this is the most horrible thing that you’ve done to me so far”

    Fast forward five years to Oct 7, 2019, you shared: “I have a really hard time when my friends tell me stuff like: ‘Well, if you’re not feeling okay with the guy then leave…’ cause… it’s not that simple”, “I feel uneasy almost all of the time so I have to rationalize myself a lot… I rarely understand where the discomfort is coming from, I believe  there are two types of  uncomfortable:… your own feelings of insecurity (and) toxic people who can harm you”.

    Fast forward, in Jan 19, 2021, I think it was the first time that you shared anything about your family since Nov 2013,  and interestingly, you shared it in parenthesis: “My friends celebrated my birthday…  they gave me a surprise party (it was special because my mom passed away January last year, and my birthday was going to be the first without her so everyone wanted to make it special)”

    Fast forward a year and a half to your current thread, on June 23, 2022 (original post), you shared more about your family, this time  not in parentheses: “My mom passed away two years ago. She was my friend, my family, and all that I had left in terms of family relationships. My dad passed away when I was 14, I am now 35… I had to care for my mother, and I did it gladly, and sadly. I felt a kind of love I hadn’t felt in a long time, wanting her to be okay… I felt love but a the same time, for sure, I had to probably just protect myself in some ways, it was too much, it was 6 months of pure agony and pain. 2 months at an ICU, the love of my life was my momma… I shared a lot of this sadness with my mother and she was many, many times my shoulder to cry on, always trying to leave that safe home… I know I am still grieving, and I no longer know what pain belongs where” –

    – following hours of study, this is my understanding today. My understanding as it is now can change and improve with more information from you. * Reading the following may be distressing to you, so read- if you will- at your pace when calm and take breaks:

    I know that you always loved your momma very, very much and that you still do. I think that for a while though, you understandably felt emotionally distant from her. I think that your home life growing up was significantly lacking and that your mother wasn’t able to give you enough of what you needed. It seems to me that the unease and discomfort that you mentioned in Oct 2019 is what you experienced as a child growing up, and that this unease-discomfort emotional experience extended into your adulthood.

    I don’t know if your father abused you before he died when you were 14. If he did, maybe your mother knew about it and did not protect you. Maybe your mother abused you in some ways and maybe she “just” didn’t protect you from abuse by siblings or by other family members whom you later referred to as pathological narcissists.

    I am quite confident that regardless of the source of the abuse, you (like myself and like so many millions of children) suffered abuse as a child. But at the time when you were a child, you didn’t realize that there was abuse, or you weren’t sure, and it is only recently that you realize that there was abuse after all: “I realize now that there was a pattern of family emotional abuse I was suffering“, June 23, 2022.

    I think that the abuse you suffered was not simple and direct, but as you stated, it was “complicated and sneaky“, and therefore.. confusing, difficult to be sure about. I think that you’ve been confused for the longest time and that you are still confused on the issue of the abuse you suffered as a child. This confusion (like the unease-discomfort), extended to your adult life in the context of romantic relationships: you’ve been confused in your relationships in regard to when you were abused and when.. it only felt that way.

    You wrote about the time you took care of your sick mother, before she died (you were in your early 30s then): “I felt a kind of love I hadn’t felt in a long time… I felt love but a the same time, for sure, I had to probably just protect myself in some ways” –

    – you felt a kind of love for her that you hadn’t felt in a long time, meaning you lost that feeling of love for her (although you still loved her) for some time before she got sick, feeling emotionally distant from her. And feeling love for her again, you had to protect yourself from that feeling… because she failed you in the past, failed to protect you or failed to give you what you needed from her… (?)

    I think that the reason that what happened in Sept 3, 2014 with your then boyfriend was so powerful is that it caused you an acute confusion in regard to what is abuse and what is love: when in the shower with him, you felt and experienced definite Love. After the shower, the love was instantly and acutely gone. You were shocked and confused: was what happened in the shower Love or Abuse (“Is this abuse?” is in the title of your Sept 4, 2014 thread).

    A month and 17 days later, in a thread you titled “How do you mourn an abusive relationship?”, you figured that the relationship was indeed abusive and that “in the end he did something very similar to sexual abuse”. I am guessing that it took a lot of thinking and maybe researching so to overcome the confusion and arrive to this definite conclusion.

    But there is still plenty of confusion in your mind and life. Clearly, you need to gain more clarity about what you experienced as a child and onward, so to no longer have this.. cloud of confusion follow you around. I don’t think that you mentioned having had any kind of psychotherapy or counseling?

    anita

     

     

    #403001
    Anonymous
    Guest

    *correction: “you’ve been confused in your relationships in regard to when you were abused and when.. it only felt that way” => you’ve been confused in your relationships in regard to when you were abused and if.. it only felt that way.

    #403253
    Anonymous
    Guest

    How are you, faber castell?

    anita

    #417111
    faber castell
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Sorry I didn’t come back. I had a difficult time integrating all of this information and in general. Maybe the whole recounting was too much before, I got overwhelmed with my life. I still am, but I appreciate all of your insight and interpretation. I have an easier time now to read what you meant. I couldn’t go through all of it as you did, but I now came back to try and do it. I don’t know if you still read this or if you’ll ever get this but I want to answer, better late than ever. Just to clarify, I was not abused by my dad in any sexual or inappropriate way. I was sort of like the victim of his own wounds and difficult with being a more emotionally present figure. As you say in your post, i am still very much confused when it comes to know “whose fault it is” when something goes wrong. I’m not trying to place all blame in anyone, but I do believe that when people are violent and gaslight, like my family, it really helps to know when I’m entitled to know I’m not in the wrong. Many spiritual gurus now will say that there is no one at blame, that there is nothing evil or good in itself, that we all are one, etc., and this is confusing for survivors of traumatic experiences that involve abuse. I know now that I am angry at both of my parents, not just my dad, because in a way he did try to protect me from himself, I think, while being emotionally unable to give the love you give to a child. He was just serious and mostly absent, angry sometimes but mostly just away. Since he had to carry that image I was never too conscious of the amount of anger I felt towards my mom mostly complaining about this but never quite leaving, and when leaving, taking me to the most violent of places, although, she always gave me the love that others didn’t. IT WAS confusing. I was angry, a lot, and my family, much to their own fitting just reproduced the idea in others that I was a difficult teenager. Whatever. The point is, yes, there is a lot a lot to heal. And I don’t even know where to start, because in fact yes, I’ve been in therapy many times but i’ve failed to find one therapist who can be “on my side” (knowing this of course means I can see my mistakes as well). They’ve had a tendency to revictimize me a lot. That I think too much, or that I victimize myself… when in fact, honestly, this whole thread of messages I’ve left here only make me realize there’s a lot of pain that I haven’t been able to heal or share with anyone, to the point I’d rather come here and not be judged. My relationships with others are indeed painful and now that my mom has passed so many things have changed… I now see so clearly how I do think she failed to protect me from stuff. I now have some legal issues with my family cause she did try to leave it all clear for me but my family has legal rights over her stuff… so uGH. It’s been exhausting. Ive even lost friends to this whole episode of my life cause I can’t think of anything else, I’m sad and surviving, I guess, and I don’t blame myself too much. I try. I just want to see myself with softness and I expect others to do the same but it’s been wild, my best  friend  said she doesn’t have any more tools to “solve” my stuff and wants to stop being friends, for instance. I have become a master at letting go. But still, it hurts, this misconception of others trying to solve things for you, not loving you or being just present and cheering you up by sharing whatever. No, people get frustrated when they see others sad. And now it’s cost me some friends, I’ve gained others, but I feel losing the only people that knew me before… Since my family did abuse me for years so, to check myself for blame is nothing new. Very sad. I totally need therapy but I’m tired of others judging me for whatever blame they always find in my story. A cycle I hope to get out of, but in the end it seems like some people do more harm than good so I guess the only therapy is exercise? Yoga? Meditation? I hope you are good, Anita. Hugs.

    #417112
    faber castell
    Participant

    Hello dear Anita,

    Sorry I didn’t come back. I had a difficult time integrating all of this information and in general. Maybe the whole recounting was too much before, I got overwhelmed with my life. I still am, but I appreciate all of your insight and interpretation. I have an easier time now to read what you meant. I couldn’t go through all of it as you did, but I now came back to try and do it. I don’t know if you still read this or if you’ll ever get this but I want to answer, better late than ever. Just to clarify, I was not abused by my dad in any sexual or inappropriate way. I was sort of like the victim of his own wounds and difficult with being a more emotionally present figure. As you say in your post, i am still very much confused when it comes to know “whose fault it is” when something goes wrong. I’m not trying to place all blame in anyone, but I do believe that when people are violent and gaslight, like my family, it really helps to know when I’m entitled to know I’m not in the wrong. Many spiritual gurus now will say that there is no one at blame, that there is nothing evil or good in itself, that we all are one, etc., and this is confusing for survivors of traumatic experiences that involve abuse. I know now that I am angry at both of my parents, not just my dad, because in a way he did try to protect me from himself, I think, while being emotionally unable to give the love you give to a child. He was just serious and mostly absent, angry sometimes but mostly just away. Since he had to carry that image I was never too conscious of the amount of anger I felt towards my mom mostly complaining about this but never quite leaving, and when leaving, taking me to the most violent of places, although, she always gave me the love that others didn’t. IT WAS confusing. I was angry, a lot, and my family, much to their own fitting just reproduced the idea in others that I was a difficult teenager. Whatever. The point is, yes, there is a lot a lot to heal. And I don’t even know where to start, because in fact yes, I’ve been in therapy many times but i’ve failed to find one therapist who can be “on my side” (knowing this of course means I can see my mistakes as well). They’ve had a tendency to revictimize me a lot. That I think too much, or that I victimize myself… when in fact, honestly, this whole thread of messages I’ve left here only make me realize there’s a lot of pain that I haven’t been able to heal or share with anyone, to the point I’d rather come here and not be judged. My relationships with others are indeed painful and now that my mom has passed so many things have changed… I now see so clearly how I do think she failed to protect me from stuff. I now have some legal issues with my family cause she did try to leave it all clear for me but my family has legal rights over her stuff… so uGH. It’s been exhausting. Ive even lost friends to this whole episode of my life cause I can’t think of anything else, I’m sad and surviving, I guess, and I don’t blame myself too much. I try. I just want to see myself with softness and I expect others to do the same but it’s been wild, my best  friend  said she doesn’t have any more tools to “solve” my stuff and wants to stop being friends, for instance. I have become a master at letting go. But still, it hurts, this misconception of others trying to solve things for you, not loving you or being just present and cheering you up by sharing whatever. No, people get frustrated when they see others sad. And now it’s cost me some friends, I’ve gained others, but I feel losing the only people that knew me before… Since my family did abuse me for years so, to check myself for blame is nothing new. Very sad. I totally need therapy but I’m tired of others judging me for whatever blame they always find in my story. A cycle I hope to get out of, but in the end it seems like some people do more harm than good so I guess the only therapy is exercise? Yoga? Meditation? I hope you are good, Anita. Hugs.

    #417113
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear faber castell,

    I’ve just read some parts of your story, and it seems you’ve been gaslighted a lot as a child (and later), and told that you shouldn’t be angry when in fact your anger was justified because your needs haven’t been met. You also said you’ve realized that some members of your family are narcissistic:

    I now realize that the pattern of emotional abuse in my family is very complicated and sneaky. Now, after many years, I’ve realized they’re pathological narcissists, which is the reason why I don’t count on them for any of this. The way they treated me when my mother passed just did it for me and I could finally connect the dots and free myself.

    You earlier said that your mother left your emotionally distant father at a certain point, but she took you to an even worse place:

    I was never too conscious of the amount of anger I felt towards my mom mostly complaining about this but never quite leaving, and when leaving, taking me to the most violent of places, although, she always gave me the love that others didn’t. IT WAS confusing. I was angry, a lot, and my family, much to their own fitting just reproduced the idea in others that I was a difficult teenager.

    Did she take you to her own family, which was “the most violent of places”? Are those the people who are pathological narcissists, who treated you poorly after you mother died, and with whom you are now in a legal dispute (I now have some legal issues with my family cause she did try to leave it all clear for me but my family has legal rights over her stuff)? Are those the same people?

    It seems that later, you were involved with some narcissistic people, e.g. that yogini boyfriend of yours, who used you for sex although he knew he wanted to break up with you.

    You also had a negative experience with therapists, whom you said denied your reality and retraumatized you:

    I totally need therapy but I’m tired of others judging me for whatever blame they always find in my story.

    many therapists have also told me, or told me back then, things like “don’t victimize yourself”, etc., which only made things worse,  whenever I felt the true need to value myself and speak up, which at the same time requiered for me to recognize unfair treatment, I got really discouraged.

    It seems you did experience a lot of gaslighting, not only from your family and romantic partners, but even from your therapists. Unfortunately, there are therapists like that, e.g. in a couple’s therapy they often end up being charmed away by the narcissist and start blaming the victim. A famous expert on narcissism, Dr. Ramani, talks about it in her youtube video: Gaslighted by your therapist. I highly recommend it.

    As Dr. Ramani suggests, you’d need a therapist who understands narcissism deeply and can see through narcissistic tricks. There are such people out there, so don’t get discouraged.

    I think it would be very important that you can finally tell your story to someone – the story of how you were abused and how it was denied and you were blamed for it instead. Your truth needs to be seen and heard – it needs to be validated – so you can start healing and trusting yourself again.

    If you’d like to share some more about the abuse that happened in your family, you are very welcome.

     

    #417120
    faber castell
    Participant

    Dear Tee… thank you very much for your reply. Indeed, you got it, i think you understood a lot of what I’ve shared and I truly appreciate people like you taking the time to read so many of my posts that, honestly, I have only recently realized are a LOT.

    To confirm the story you already got, yeah, my father passed away after having a lot of financial issues and a very serious illness that took his mobility away. He was really devastated with not being able to solve things financially, I guess, and it ended up becoming a difficult illness. Very little time before that, since we had no money at all my mom started working in whatever she could to pay for school and food but it wasn’t enough so she decided us to go to my grandmothers home, where part of that narcissistic family lives and where I think I suffered a very different kind of violence. My mom had a very big heart and did take care of my dad, even with little money we used to buy groceries for him but it was awful, sometimes I feel like we left him behind. Still, in our home we eventually didn’t have water, electricity, or food, so I guess she had to make that choice. But wow. If only I could have avoided that place.

    A parenthesis: I don’t think I ever suffered from “violence” per se with my parents, only their turmoiled emotional lives together and whatever, but nothing like these people. For instance, JUST as an example, when I was like 11 years old, I  had to stay on my own with him for like 15 days, my mom had to travel to see her sister who was sick, so this was the first time ever I had to be around this father figure who was really uncomfortable for me. He was a bit of a difficult character. One day I was making him a present and he yelled at me because he saw me and thought I was about to “make a mess in the carpet”, after many other situations that week. Later we met at the kitchen and I started crying and, don’t ask me where this came from, but I told him he was damaging my self-esteem. I remember his eyes, wow, he stopped, he sat down and hugged me and started crying. He asked me to forgive him, he said something like: I’m sorry, my child, I didn’t know. I would never forgive myself for that, never allow that from anyone. We cried together and that was, in retrospective, one of THE most healing moments I can remember of my dad and that honestly has done most of my therapy regarding him, realizing he was a good man, and he would recognize when something was not okay. He totally changed the following days we had together and I saw that he made an effort to avoid this irritable side of himself. I really feel he was like a kid that day, he was so ashamed and so human. I forgave him, you know? But at the same time it was really hard to tell when he was gonna be mad at something, but I know he loved me, he had a very difficult upbringing though.

    So, anyways, the difference with my uncles and all the rest of the family is that they would NEVER, EVER apologize for ANYTHING. When my father died, since they didn’t like him, they decided never to mention him, or the situation. The day my dad passed, no one spoke to me. No one gave me a hug. Nothing. I was already living in that house and they wouldn’t speak to me, I was 14 years old… They even later told my mom they couldn’t avoid being mean to me because I looked too much like my dad. They wouldn’t allow me to use the computer, or answer the phone, they’d come in angry bursts to “punish” me for things I never did… all a horrible systematic dynamic that lasted for the first years until I totally isolated and stopped having lunch with them, etc, (which was also a reason to call me a rebel, a disrespectful teen, etc.). I was fully depressed when I was 21. I don’t blame my mom, in the meantime, she worked from 8 am to 10 pm at a restaurant to be able to pay for school and later, college. But I did resent her a lot for not being more firm with them. For not seeing them for who they actually were, even after proving it once, twice and a million times. Today I have inherited the sweet problem of her having given up her rights regarding the family house. They tricked her when she was just moving in, telling her that my dad’s financial situation could affect her name and all of their shared properties so that it was better for her to not appear in one document or two. It KINDA made sense at the time but it was absurd the amount of abuse that she also received from them, making her feel like a failure, like she married someone who was beneath them and his death sort of proved it, she could only feel shame and at least feel grateful that they would take us in. So my mom was in a very vulnerable condition, BUT, there is something in me thats quite different and I value it a lot, and it’s the fact that I might have mistakes, I might be vulnerable in some ways, but I DON’T fall for certain things and it pisses me off that they did that to her. They would have never been able to do that to me, but, those documents are so so so old that cannot be reversed, now I practically depend on their good will to give me my part. And you can imagine how that’s going, they wont steal directly, but they refuse to make decisions and try to manipulate every movement related to our shared properties.

    In the end, i don’t know who I am anymore, I clearly am a very traumatized person, honestly people sometimes don’t even see it and see me quite functioning, but THE moment I start talking and sharing about this even my closest friends gaslight me. like, yeah but you shouldn’t live in the past, you cannot hold so many grudges, you have to forgive, etc. HOW can you do that when no one, not even a therapist, has been there to validate and guide my way out? I’m not stupid and I know this is not true, I know I’ve been abused, but I’m no wonder woman either… I mean, I do doubt things, I havent been able to internalize that I am not deserving of that, and a lot more, like, I’m afraid to lose people again just for sharing what I’ve been through. I just lost a friend just because I got mad that, after 3 years of my mom passing, shes telling me she doesn’t see me well and that I should be worried, that I should take medicine or something because I feel empty and alone. my god. How else would i feel? I mean, if I see the history in these forums I realise there is sooo much hurt. It’s not me not being grateful… true things have happened and keep happening. It’s NOT in the past. These people keep being my one and only karma and now I’m without my mom, they one person who I truly loved from that family… so wow. Jesus I’m sorry for this very lenghty message. I really appreciate that you tell me I have been gaslighted and validate my story even without knowing me and if I don’t know you or where you are. It even feels scary to read it, and to feel the relief. I totally am not used to being told this. THANK YOU.

    #417149
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear faber castell,

    you are very welcome!

    true things have happened and keep happening. It’s NOT in the past. These people keep being my one and only karma and now I’m without my mom, they one person who I truly loved from that family… so wow.

    Yes, real abuse – emotional abuse – has happened to you, and it is still happening at the hands of these cruel, narcissistic people, who are unfortunately your family. You are now in the middle of a legal battle (have you sued them?), and are depending on their good-will to give you what belongs to you, but was taken away from you and your mother. And their good-will is zero, it is non-existent, as they have proven many years ago, since the moment you moved in with them.

    I hope you won’t mind me saying this, but your story reminds me of the story of Cinderella, only you didn’t suffer at the hands of the evil step-mother and step sisters, but rather, at the hands of evil uncles (and possible their wives and children)? I mean, the way they treated you is abhorrent:

    When my father died, since they didn’t like him, they decided never to mention him, or the situation. The day my dad passed, no one spoke to me. No one gave me a hug. Nothing. I was already living in that house and they wouldn’t speak to me, I was 14 years old… They even later told my mom they couldn’t avoid being mean to me because I looked too much like my dad. They wouldn’t allow me to use the computer, or answer the phone, they’d come in angry bursts to “punish” me for things I never did…

    It was abuse through and through. They didn’t even try to stop themselves from being mean, because in their mind, you deserved it since you resembled your father so much. I am sorry this happened you to, it was so unfair to be exposed to their wickedness. I am glad you did have some strength to resist though, e.g. that you stopped coming for lunch, even if they called you rebellious and disrespectful:

    all a horrible systematic dynamic that lasted for the first years until I totally isolated and stopped having lunch with them, etc (which was also a reason to call me a rebel, a disrespectful teen, etc.)

    But I am sorry your mother didn’t protect you better. I am sorry that she chose to tolerate their abuse, even after they told her openly that they are mean to you because you remind them of your father! I understand she was in a financially vulnerable situation, but still, that was a big price to pay to stay in that house, and let them abuse you… so she can finance your school and later college. BTW I don’t quite understand: you say she had to pay for your school. Does it mean you went to a private school?

    I totally understand why you resented her for staying there, or for at least not standing up for you and protecting you:

    But I did resent her a lot for not being more firm with them. For not seeing them for who they actually were, even after proving it once, twice and a million times.

    It seems she had low self-esteem and actually believed those accusations by her family:

    it was absurd the amount of abuse that she also received from them, making her feel like a failure, like she married someone who was beneath them and his death sort of proved it, she could only feel shame and at least feel grateful that they would take us in.

    Instead of standing up to them, she believed them and felt bad about herself. And she let them abuse you, and even take her inheritance…

    It’s good you are a different type than her – that you didn’t believe those lies and accusations that her family was saying about you, and that you chose to protect yourself the best you could from their abuse:

    BUT, there is something in me thats quite different and I value it a lot, and it’s the fact that I might have mistakes, I might be vulnerable in some ways, but I DON’T fall for certain things and it pisses me off that they did that to her. They would have never been able to do that to me,

    Good! It’s good you’re stronger and you don’t believe their lies. It’s good that you don’t believe you deserve to be humiliated and abused like that. Unfortunately, you were a child back then and couldn’t really impact her decisions, so the only thing you can do regarding the inheritance is try to reverse your mother’s decision, if possible. If not, you’ll need to let it go.

    However, I think it’s much more important for you to heal the emotional wounds inflicted upon you, and in that way receive your “satisfaction”. Even if you don’t receive it in the material form.

    In the end, i don’t know who I am anymore, I clearly am a very traumatized person, honestly people sometimes don’t even see it and see me quite functioning, but THE moment I start talking and sharing about this even my closest friends gaslight me. like, yeah but you shouldn’t live in the past, you cannot hold so many grudges, you have to forgive, etc.

    You don’t need to forgive. What you need is to stop allowing that their wickedness – past and present – affect you. You need to stop letting them have emotional control over your life.

    If you want them to apologize, forget it – they’ll never do it. If you want them to admit they did any wrong – forget it, they are incapable of that. If you want anything from them (emotionally), you’ll be stuck, because you’ll let them emotionally control you.

    So you need to let go expecting anything from them (other than possibly your part of the inheritance, but that’s a different topic). Only then can you be free. But first, before you can stop expecting anything, you need to express you anger, not to their faces but to a good therapist, or even just to yourself.

    Recently I saw a video where the coach said: don’t look for others (like friends and family) to validate your anger. Don’t wait for them to tell you you have the right to feel angry. Validate your own anger. Know that you have the right to feel angry. And then write it down, write it on a piece of paper – write down everything you are angry about. Don’t show it to the perpetrators. Don’t show it to anybody. It’s for your eyes only. But validate your own anger. It will cause a shift in you, I believe. Because you won’t need your friends to validate it for you, and it will remove the burden from them too.

    I also want to say that what your father did when he apologized to you is amazing! It’s really rare and so precious. I can imagine it gave you a lot of healing, because you understood that he actually means well, that he understands you and loves you. He saw your need and responded to it. And then he tried not to hurt you like that any more. That’s really precious and I am happy you had such a healing experience with your father!

     

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