Dear gresshoppe:

“He seemed to have anger issues… he seemed to have a lot of estrangements in his life. He questioned some of my dearest friends, called a couple of them names (just in front of me)“- if anger issues and estrangements from the people in his life is his pattern, then likely, this pattern will include you yet again: there was already a breakup following a short relationship, and if you get back with him, there will likely be another.

“What bothers me to this day is that it just ended with a big splat and we never even tried to reconnect. That happened to me with my first love, and I regretted not giving him at least one more chance. I just don’t want to have regrets“- can’t undo and redo the past. Better put that old regret, and all regrets, to a final rest. Make the best choices today with the information you have, choices made in  calm state of mind.

“I don’t know if we could have worked through it because we didn’t try. And he recently hinted that he was open to another chance“- back to patterns: if his relationships, romantic and otherwise, were not long-term and stable so far, his relationship with you is likely to be the same.

“I hear you on pleasing parents. My Mom tried to stick her nose in my business on this one“- when this man questioned some of your dearest friends, calling them names, wasn’t he (like your mother) sticking his nose in your business?

“I just wonder if walking it back is wise. But even now, several months later – it felt extraordinary“- if something of his anger issues was evident from the beginning of the short relationship, maybe that was what attracted you to him?

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

I want to look at the exchange you had with N again, this morning, and see what I didn’t see before (there is always more to see if one keeps that 3rd eye open). You stated (to me) the purpose of the exchange as this: “Realizing I will need my passport soon I started to feel more urgency to get my things from N“.

Seaturtle (S): “Hi. how are you”                N: “Phenomenal”       S: “Couldn’t think of a more cryptic message? (I was attempting to keep things light if he would let it but he didn’t“- if your purpose in texting him was indeed just this, to get your passport and snow gear back, it’d make sense that you were not interested in how he’s feeling beyond the  superficial (“keeping things light”), starting a conversational with the customary how are you?

N: “What do you want”         S: “I want to know if you have any desire to talk”- this could be understood as you wanting him to talk, inviting him to talk about his feelings regarding the relationship and breakup.

N: “words can’t describe how you’ve made me feel and I have no desire to waste any more energy with you”- and, he talked about his feelings in a sentence.

S: “I tried my best to communicate cause I wanted it to work so bad but I just felt like we were not going to understand each other and I had to leave the loop we would be in. I’m really sorry for any pain I caused you“- you didn’t talk with him about his feelings, about him.. but about you. You didn’t invite him to elaborate on his 1-sentence answer above. And “I’m really sorry for any pain I caused you” is a blanket apology, not specifying what pain you caused him, if any, and not inviting him to clarify the nature of his pain.

N: “you have no clue what love is”.                    S: “yea I realize that”         N: (Thumbs up emoji)- this is very significant: you acknowledged to him that you have no clue what love is. And he agreed.

S: “But how would you know what it is better than me”-  you say, paraphrased: I have no clue what love is, but neither do you.  (You are not saying: I do have a clue about what love is).

N: “please just leave me alone”. S: “Ok, I’m sorry to bother you. I know I left stuff at your house..”- finally, you stated the purpose of contacting him. N: “I don’t know where any of your stuff is but it’s not here.”

.. S: “Why’d you even unblock me if it wasn’t so I could get my things back”- angry that he wouldn’t return your belongings.

in a note to me, you wrote about the exchange: “I am feeling anxious about my passport and confused about the many things I had at his house stored in the garage and closet”- seems like your main concern was your belongings.

“Also him telling me I don’t know what love is, hurts because it makes me feel like he thinks he was doing everything he could”- it’s not the thought that you don’t know what love is that hurts you, but that he thinks he knows what love is…(?)

To look further into what love is, in your mind and heart.. and what it is in his, I went back to the beginning of your thread, reading only your posts. The sheer number and length as well as the massive amount of insight you shared about in 30 pages is just too much to read through. This morning, I was able to read and take notes on less than 2 pages of your 30-page thread,  your posts Oct 6-16, 2023 only, keeping my 3rd eye open:

First, it is clear to me that you are capable of feeling empathy for others, and you do. If you are a narcissist, you are an empathetic one. Thing is, a personality disorder (I was diagnosed with one: Borderline Personality Disorder, BPD, and I no longer fit the diagnosis), is a spectrum thing: not all BPD people are the same person, and not all NPD people are the same person. If you look at the DSM-5 criteria for each one of the personality disorders, it says that a person has to fit .. let’s say 5 of the 8 criteria listed, so to fit a diagnosis. And so, within a personality disorder, people are different. Plus,  everything human is on a spectrum. So, many people fitting the NPD diagnosis feel empathy for others.. only that they often don’t. Or their empathy is limited to certain circumstances and is absent in other circumstances to an alarming extent.

Also, no one is born with a personality disorder. Symptoms start in childhood, due to ongoing trauma, and symptoms are added by early adulthood. The diagnoses are categories of personality disorders set by the DSM staff for the purpose of designing therapies to fit each category. It is not true that there is no healing from a personality disorder, and I am proof. Lots of people heal to one extent or another, this is why therapies for personality disorders exit and keep being developed.

I am saying all this not because I think that you fit the NPD (I really don’t know), or any personality disorder, but just in case you do- just in case you get diagnosed as such by a professional sometimes in the future- I want you to be open to the possibility, for therapeutic purposes.

And now, to quotes: “I am not confident that if we met in a group setting with 3+ girls and 3+ guys that we would choose each other. By this I mean I am not sure he sees what makes me special as opposed to another girl who’s pretty, good awareness, and fun… I want him to tell me he loves things about me that make me ME… I want to be a part of the fashion world in some way, where I make clothes or simply can afford to wear my style downtown, I want to be around people or at least not far from a big city, I am also an actress and I want to go to auditions in the city and one day be apart of a big film or tv series” (Oct 6, 2023)-

-your desire to be positively/ admiringly seen as an individual apart from others in a romantic relationship and otherwise is intense.

Oct 10-16, 2023: “my mom would pick me up and do whatever I wanted to prevent sadness… the pattern ends up me calling the shots a lot, our date nights depend on my mood, the music, most of the movies we watch, it’s all my comfortable preferences, when does this become selfish? I have wondered before if I am a narcissist and a taker in life… one day he will come out and say ‘we only ever do what you want and I’m sick of it.'”-

– I never thought much about your mother’s part in forming you during your formative years (aka childhood), I was remiss. Seems like she formed in you the expectation that love= someone doing whatever you wanted. Fast forward, N tried to fulfil your expectations in some ways, but failed to do so in all the ways you required (see below).

“I worry my partner doesn’t think of me, when he doesn’t put the toilet seat down, my head tells me he doesn’t think about me at all… If my boyfriend is showering by the time I come over I think, ‘wait why couldn’t he plan his shower so he would be out when I got here, he must not care very much about our time together.‘ I know it’s ridiculous right? All these are ways my mind just was exhausted living with him and I needed to get away from… him being late is a pattern in our relationship and it would bother anyone, but I do feel it bothers me more than most”-

– Part of you suspects that these expectations are ridiculous, but this part is not sure (hence the question, right?). Objectively, yes, it is ridiculous to think that N not always putting the toilet seat down means that he doesn’t think about you at all. But subjectively, this is how it feels to you. If N does not do ALL that you want, when you want it, it means to you, subjectively, that he doesn’t think about you/ doesn’t love you at all. No doubt that this would prevent you from feeling loved in any relationship, with any and every man.

“we smoked and (this is not the first time), I suddenly felt as though he was a stranger. He was getting into my bed and I felt uncomfortable sleeping with him. this happened after I said some things thinking they were funny (here the comedy aspect kicks in) and he didn’t react at all…  The whole thing is so sad to me, because it is not just marijuana that makes me feel this estranged way towards him… and I try to shed light on it by just being real, and asking like why is it awkward right now? And his response is always that he had no idea that it was. It just makes me feel so alone… it makes me wonder if it is just in my head? … I get this feeling of unfamiliarity often… completely sober as well. This feeling of disconnect that feels like an awkward unfamiliarity and I am the only one who notices it”-

– this is how I understand this: as a child (not only as a teenager, but before), you felt so ALONE, a stranger in your home, living with strangers, disconnected, a very distressing and reoccurring feeling. Your mother took that feeling away from you when she coddled and overprotected you (words you used someplace in your thread to describe her behavior toward you). She took that feeling away when she did whatever you wanted. Fast forward, you re-experienced the same childhood ALONE/ estranged feeling with N, and you needed him to take this feeling away from you by doing the same as your mother did: everything you want.

“(F) took normal teenage behavior as me not caring for him. What a lonely place to be, where you cannot receive or See the love, I want to avoid turning into my father in this way“- but you have turned into your father in this way. You took normal behaviors, like a guy not putting the toilet seat down,  as evidence of him not caring for you.

“about soulmates, I think this feeling of them turning on a light in a dark room so that I can see myself, is part of what I associate to someone being a soulmate of mine. That is why I mentioned my mom possibly being a soulmate because she does see me, and she reminds me of who I am when I need it”-

– You are someone ALONE (a dark room) who needs to be seen as worthy of connection/ worthy of not being alone (turning on a light). Problem is that you associate the light with everything you want being done by the one who supposedly loves you.. because that’s the kind of love you experienced as a child.

“I find myself wanting to criticize my partner for similar things my dad criticized me for, like ‘not seeing me.’ A mentality like, if I have to be hyper aware of what I am doing, like responding to messages, cleaning up after myself hyper-vigilantly, making sure YOU are seen, then why shouldn’t you have to be too.. Like he will leave a mess at my apartment, something I would be way too self conscious to do at his house and I have to actively stop myself from resenting that he feels the freedom to do those things and I cannot live with it. As if I wish he had the same anxieties as me… but I also don’t wish this upon anyone, so maybe I just wish he could at least empathize my internal torment“-

– Your internal torment is the ALONE, disconnected emotional experience of childhood. An experience you tried to change as a teenager, when living with your father, by hyper vigilantly fulfilling his unrealistic expectations from you. You tried to connect with him in this way, it was the expression of your love for him.. to do all that he wanted.

“(N) said he felt like he was always consoling me for something he did wrong…Yes he constantly thinks he has done something wrong, but I can totally see how he felt that way with how I would communicate him pressing a trigger. I would ask him why he kept hurting me”-

– You didn’t bring out the best in N in that he felt that he was always doing something wrong in the relationship with you (not always getting your jokes/ laughing when you do/ putting the toilet seat down/ telling you that you are pretty/ being on time/ talking to his roommate when you were in bed, etc.). He was in a difficult situation with you, wanting to please you on one hand (this is his brand of love: people pleasing, seems to me), passive-aggressively rebelling, on the other, responding to .. your unrealistic expectations in ways that were not emotionally honest. His weed use helped him to Teflon.. you and everything else in his life that was distressing. In short, he brought his baggage into the relationship, you brought yours, and the two of you, overall, did not bring out the best in each other.

If only the two of you- separately- could redefine LOVE: what is love?, as the song says…?

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

“I could see myself thinking they are stronger than I am, or maybe know themselves better“- A point toward Seaturtle’s humility, zero toward Seaturtle being a narcissist.. lol (funny.. or not?)

“Yea I can see how this would have developed in me, with my dad’s huge need to show his superiority over me and my siblings… My dads voice is still in my head, saying… that I am weaker than others“- so sometimes you counter his voice by saying the opposite, that you are superior to others.

“I have a random question. There was a time when N and I had a real pregnancy scare..  a few weeks before you and I began talking here, back in September 2023. For about a week we thought I was pregnant, his initial reaction was what I wanted to do, which I did appreciate, he was expecting me to choose to not go through with it… I have been getting trapped in these thoughts the past few days, would starting a family have made him the man I needed?  Someone who could see me? would it make him softer like I wanted him to be?“- this is a mistake many women make, thinking that having a child will lead to improvement in the relationship with their child’s father, a change in the man. I think that statistically, judging by separation and divorce numbers alone, it has proven to be a romantic, delusional idea. So, no, I feel quite certain that N would not have become the man you needed, he wouldn’t have seen you and he wouldn’t have become softer if you had a child (or children) with him. Instead, he would have become harder and blinder, being overwhelmed to be a father.

“When I see deeply, I mean he has empathy for people IF he understands them. His friend, D, had a troubled past… However it didn’t feel like he treated me the same way, When I tried to express certain ways my dad spoke to me that affected me still and lead to triggers, he just gave me like a blank stare… he looked at me like I was giving excuses…“- my mother had empathy, so it seemed, to hungry cats in the neighborhood, and to me when I was physically sick with the flu, let’s say, and when she thought I was hungry. But she had no empathy for me during hours-long sessions where she shamed and guilt tripped me, etc. That’s empathy that is very limited to certain circumstances, and to certain people/ animals. Overall, my mother was a very good person where cats were concerned, so I understand cats seeking her company. But I shouldn’t.

Similarly, N may be a very good friend to D, so it would make sense for D to continue to be friends with N. But you shouldn’t.

“If something hurt his feelings, he put it in a box. Then he would be all passive aggressive… and he would just say ‘no you didn’t do anything I am not passive aggressive I was just asking a question/ just kidding/ I didn’t say that?…’“- ongoing people pleasing involves emotional dishonesty. He puts his anger in a box and the box leaks.. passive aggressively.

“If someone gave him a sort of ultimatum, he would not do it out of his own stubborn-ness. Maybe he just swings between the two, when he has energy he is people pleaser and when he is annoyed or tired he switches to not caring at all… “- unlike characters in cartoons and in many works of fiction, in real-life, people are not as consistent as in being one way or the other way at all times. Instead, many people stretch themselves too far in one way (ex., passive, people pleasing), stress builds and becomes too much, so they overcompensate, going the other way (ex., aggressive) . And repeat.

“I feel like being seen as equal would have been enough for me, but he did not treat my feelings with the care I treated his. When he told me it made him smile when I made his bed, that made me continue to do it… Whereas when I told him it made me feel special when he said I looked pretty, he couldn’t bring himself to say it“- this is part of the learning, within a relationship, for the purpose of deciding if it’s a good idea to continue the relationship. You wrote in your original post that N is a standup guy, no question– well, he may be a standup friend to D and a standup law abiding, tax paying citizen, but not a standup guy in the relationship with you.

“His mom absorbs all the sympathy she can get, which I can see being a vacuum for emotions in a room, N feeling like there was no space to express his. This makes me feel like I could have made it work with N, helping him express his feelings, something I have no trouble doing“- a term synonymous to the years of childhood is Formative Years, meaning that a person is formed, physically, emotionally, mentally, during those years. By the time you met N, he was already formed with his reactions to his mother’s misbehaviors being part of who he is. You can’t go back in time and undo his old reactions. You’re too late.

Adults can heal, to one extent or another, if they are able, and if they are greatly motivated, and if (we) do what it takes, and persist.. proactively.

“This breakup is so difficult. I feel like I am being tossed around, one day I feel no regrets and proud of my decisions. The next day I wake up feeling guilty that I gave up too quickly and demanded too much of him…“- you demanded too much from him as a boyfriend/ lifetime partner, but you didn’t demand too much for yourself when it comes to a boyfriend/ lifetime partner. See the difference?

anita

Dear Worldofthewaterwheels:

You wrote earlier: “Trying to navigate social communications is like a minefield to me“. I’m thinking that given the complex nature of the communication on your thread, it’s better that you will communicate with one member at a time, not with two (or more) members at one time. It will make it simpler for you, I hope.

I read Tee’s reply right above mine, it is insightful and so very well written, and I hope that you continue to  communicate with her. Sometime in the future, if you’d like my input (here on this thread or in another that you may start), please let me know.

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

“I texted him and it went through, meaning he unblocked me, I was surprised to see ‘delivered’“- He unblocked you for a reason, I am guessing (maybe not). Let’s see…

“I said: ‘Hi. how are you’ Him: ‘Phenomenal’“- likely an insincere message, sarcastic, conveying contempt for the one asking.

“Me: ‘couldn’t think of a more cryptic message?’“- not a cryptic (mysterious) answer, seems to me, but a contemptuous message (contemptuous= feeling that the person deserves scorn, being unworthy of consideration or respect).

“Him: ‘What do you want’ Me: ‘I want to know if you have any desire to talk’ Him: ‘words can’t describe how you’ve made me feel and I have no desire to waste any more energy with you.’“- definitely contemptuous, disrespectful, as in saying to you: you are not worthy of my time and energy!

This could be the reason he unblocked you: to show you contempt.

“Me: ‘I tried my best to communicate cause I wanted it to work so bad but I just felt like we were not going to understand each other and I had to leave the loop we would be in. I’m really sorry for any pain I caused you’. Him: ‘you have no clue what love is‘”-he is angry at you, wanting to hurt you. He believes that you caused him pain (he feels pain), and he wants to reciprocate and cause you pain in return.

“Me: ‘yea I realize that’ Him: (Thumbs up emoji)“- a Win (thumbs up) for him: you accepted his insult.

“Me: ‘But how would you know what it is better than me’“- Seaturtle doesn’t go belly up for long (an admiring face emoji), a Win for Seaturtle!

“Him: ‘please just leave me alone’‘”- he didn’t hold his Win for long.. and he gives up. He is no intellectual match to the witty Seaturlte!… Seems like I am enjoying the .. confrontation, now that I am reading the exchange for the first time… shifting to empathy for him (so that I don’t merely enjoy his defeat here): he feels pain, angry and he is not as cognitively and emotionally aware as you, 3rd eye and all).

“Me: ‘Ok, I’m sorry to bother you. I know I left stuff at your house… my snow gear is all I really want if that’s possible’ Him: ‘I don’t know where any of your stuff is but it’s not here.’ Me: ‘You have no idea where my snowboard is? I just hope you wouldn’t throw a passport away…’ Me: ‘Why’d you even unblock me if it wasn’t so I could get my things back’ The end. nothing more“- he went for the Win the only way that’s available for him: keeping your passport and expensive snow gear away from you.

“Him telling me I don’t know what love is, hurts… he was just sold completely on this relationship that I felt like needed so much work, and he just thought was all great. Another reason I felt unseen… Curious what you think of all this“- in addition to my thoughts above, I think that his idea of love is.. I’d call it The Weed-Assisted, Teflon- Mind idea of Love: it requires no work, no conversations, no meeting of the minds (closed 3rd eye and inactive crown chakra); it’s a choice (like he said), a choice made once, done deal.

I think that the ending of the relationship is the right thing for you and that you do know more about human love (from the perspective of the 3rd eye and crown chakra that’s available to humans) than he does. The two of you are not compatible. I am guessing that you will call the dept that issues passports an ask what to do, given your circumstances. Seems like you lost your snow gear..? Sorry. I will read and respond to your first post of yesterday next.

anita

Dear gresshoppe:

The relationship with the ex was “short, but really intense… crazy chemistry“. You recently met “someone super nice… so sweet“, but “some level of connectedness” with him is missing: that intensity and crazy chemistry that you experienced with the ex. Recently, the ex contacted you and you are considering resuming the relationship with the ex.

About the trouble in your previous relationship, you wrote: “I think we were both at fault, now that some time has passed. He said some things that hurt bad, and then I withdrew. Everything fell apart, so fast. I wanted to slow everything down, but couldn’t find a way, so I went no contact“- what happened there is very important when it comes to considering resuming the relationship. Would you like to elaborate on what happened and what were the things he said that hurt you badly? How were you at fault, and how was he at fault?

As to the intense connectedness and crazy chemistry that you experienced with the ex, that could be the result of his physical features that you find very attractive and/ or it could be that he reminds you of a parent (I don’t mean in a sexual way) whose love you tried to get as a child, but failed, and he (the ex) brought back to you that intense child-like hope to be finally loved.

Let’s say that your father or mother were cold and critical of you. You tried to please that parent very much, to win their love. You hoped for their love for a long, long time and you didn’t get it. Fast forward, you meet a cold, critical man who is interested in you, showing you some positive attention, and all that intense and long-term HOPE is awakened.. hope that this time, you will get the love you needed for so long.

On the other hand, when you meet a nice guy.. that’s nice, but he doesn’t awaken that Hope (hope with a capital H). Problem in this scenario, is that you far less likely receive love from a cold and critical person than you are from a nice and sweet person.

What do you think about this scenario?

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

I am just about to go out for a walk+, so I’ll read and reply Fri morning.

anita