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Cali ChicaParticipant
Dear Anita,
I am in utter awe. That is one of my favorite movies, and isn’t it ironic – Ursula’s too.
Years later when I re-watched it I found eery similarities, and this was before tiny buddha and my awareness of it all, but deep down inside I knew…
Wow – just wow – the similarities just continue – glad to share and speak as we always do.
I am going to be away from the computer now until tomorrow. Have a great rest of your day and I am sure we will have some more great conversations coming up.
Be well my friend!
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I agree. I was thinking about how Ursula’s opinions tainted my view of my husband. And the fact that her “opinions” were ever changing, but presented as fact – not fiction – of course. I too became a wavering unpredictable frenzy.
So much angst and negativity protected unto my husband – and for so long I searched for that remorse.
How often I posted to you, I don’t feel remorse, I don’t feel as bad as I think I should, etc.
And then it occurred to me, recently – it is because that was never ME.
It was my being possessed by Ursula’s voice, and so in many ways I did not even feel it was me! It felt unbelievable at times the things I said, similar to how you adopted that cruel tone in your voice unintentionally – it was second nature for us to speak in such ways often – mirroring our own Ursulas.
So now when I look back to those times, it is not that I don’t take ownership – I do. It is more that I know better now, and then I did not. I am aware now, then I was not. I can find my own voice now, then it was suffocated.
It isn’t about feeling remorse, or being consumed by guilt – it is freeing that inner voice. It is looking back at old CC and not being disgusted, but having tenderness for a person who did not know any better. A person taken over by a virus, just like I was with influenza a few weeks ago – unable to function to max capacity due to this virulence.
It is important to let the glimpses of peace and freedom of life nowadays sink in for me. As that is what it is all about – it is the real thing as you would say.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you for sharing this personal example with me. I chuckled to myself as it is uncanny the similarity of our mothers. My mother too used the word horse face, and quite often. How odd for a young girl to think of the term, as it would be in her head -from her mother! These mothers poisoning young mind with negative views – so early before they can see the world for what it is!
My mother felt adamant about her views: “oh that horse faced women how stupid.” As though she was on a microphone screaming it to a group of thousands as their leader. These were not opinions but FACTS. I am sure you can relate to this. Your mothers “opinions” being facts in her eyes, and ours too of course because this is what we heard.
I, too, have judged people this way – and especially during my years of dating. Judging them from the filter of Ursula, and then if I was asked, what was my opinion – I would have stated: well the same of course! Of course!
without a thought!
Then, I will say years later I would find myself wondering why I would do this at times, and note that it isn’t reality. I see now, years and years later that it was the over-developed Ursula. You wrote:
When I was a child, for a variety of reasons, the “I” of who I was didn’t develop adequately, and so, the MOU remained over-developed (as she was in the very beginning)
This makes great sense to me – absolutely positively. So many things I have mentioned to you over the years: guilt, going by patterns, feeling indebted, feeling stuck, attending to others, taking the opinion of others first, anger at feeling suffocated – and so – much – more!
All of this is related to that.
I smile when I think of horse face today, one particular “auntie” in our life with such a face. I hear Ursula cackling, saying how no matter what this lady achieved she is unfortunate due to a horse face. But on another whim jealous of horse face if she found some positivity in her life, as she was not deserving, due to this face – that she of course did not choose. Such ridiculousness, such animosity, such vehement speech. All poured onto her “best listener” and pupil, her daughter!
I think it is important to not judge ourselves for these first thoughts, if they are from Ursula or MOU – but instead focus on the unraveling of those thoughts – like you did in your anecdote to me today. And I would like to think things through in such a manner as well.
Thank you Anita for being proud of my progress. It feels good to think “good” – doesn’t it.
It feels nice to understand what glimpses of peace are !
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I hope you had a good weekend.
Rest and digest, let the dust settle – many different phrases – all meaningful with context.
My husband and I did a good job relaxing this weekend – something we aren’t always “good” at as we are not used to it. But we were successful. We didn’t discuss jobs in detail, and allowed things to just be. It was nice and peaceful.
Over the next week we will do some more research and phone calls and continue to discuss.
What I said about rumination, I would like to elaborate on.
I was thinking yesterday, a peaceful Sunday – how rumination has been a large part of my life. Also the concept of – not letting something sink in, prior to jumping to the next thought/issue.
Examples:
1 – beautiful proposal/engagement. Immediate anger/issues from Ursula about where engagement party will be, and “how dare my in laws be cheap and have it at their home.” No need to elaborate more – we both know how this all went
2 – let’s say I had a nice date with a nice boy – regardless of who or what he was. My mind would immediately jump to what Ursula would think of him, and then fast forward to anxiety of whether he was right for me or not. No concept of enjoying the moment or letting any of it sink in.
3- I moved to CT, and the moment I sat down in the corner, surrounded by boxes taking this new well lit space in – onto the first jobs my husband and I had after training – the phone range. It was Ursula, of course. She was calling to say: “oh I talked to our neighbor and there is a job for your husband near our house, her son works for a surgeon there, you should call.”
I didn’t know it back then, how toxic that was – well I knew it in my body and mind – feeling tense, anxious, etc. Looking back I deserved to: sit in that moment a little longer, walk to the sink, get a nice cool glass of water and tour my new lovely place. Take it all in. When my husband came upstairs after bringing up the last box, we deserved to sit in silence for a moment taking it all in .
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So much of my over-talking in the past is related to dispelling this inner distress. It is like a bee that is wound up with weird energy and buzzes around all day trying to release it, buzz buzz buzz. In your ear, near your eye, buzz buzz. How irritating. Not just for the other party, but for the bee herself! How exhausting.
This weekend I did not buzz around, and for the first time I felt very happy that I didn’t have Ursula shoving her “thoughts” down my throat about this upcoming new chapter of our life. No, no one. It was and is a time for my husband and I alone. It takes time to feel comfortable “doing nothing” and letting things sink in. When it hasn’t been the natural way of my life – it will take time for it to feel natural. But I sense it already – it becoming my new norm. I do sense that. I sense deep inside what the concept of peace and stillness are – and how therapeutic they are. I sense the concept of not jumping to attend to someone else outside of my inner circle.
I sense that peace can become my new norm.
Cali ChicaParticipantTypo in first post above – I would like to hold off on the topic of which job for “now”. As in want to rest and digest about it.
Cali ChicaParticipantOh and by the way. I ALWAYS want you to speak naturally without feeling a need to filter for the sake of filter (you know what I mean). I value your honest input and opinions and have enough understanding of you to respect it 🙂
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita
You are absolutely right about the ego aspect, something that I will keep in mind and noticed since first talking to B.
I would like to hold off on this topic For an hour, as I know that my brain will go in circles until my husband and I have more information – more INTUITION. We have set up some follow up phone calls as well as reviewing some paperwork over the next week. I Will keep you posted on any other things that come up that I would like to discuss. I feel that if I continue to speak about it now to whoever – my brain will just go in circles and flip flop, and it will end up causing a lot of rumination. Today I would like to focus on the fact that at least my husband is out of this terrible job and we can celebrate that for now! I am glad I shared that with you! Either way we are moving! We will miss New York City but there are better options out there for him out West. Also a more pleasant climate, outdoors lifestyle, and many other things that we enjoy. I look forward to that, lots of changes coming our way a lot to wrap her head around and I’m going to let the dust settle and take everything one step at a time – an important time, one to focus on keeping sane and focusing on inner circle.
Have a good evening I look forward to talking tomorrow 🙂
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I forgot to mention – San Diego contract would be similar after a year, taking a percentage of the whole practice depending on how many surgeons etc. At the end of the day the contracts may be similar in the sense of how hard the surgeon works – he takes home, after paying overhead expenses
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
What you said makes sense, carried away or not – I like your natural input no need to filter.
Yes I agree about the contracts.
B did not say the other surgeon wanted his own empire, he said that he doesn’t have a great reputation and they parted ways as he no longer wanted to work under someone and wanted to be on his own. We heard the same from another outside colleague who knows both. The term empire is my own.
We talked to a rep – sales rep who works with B and states he is a great surgeon and seems his whole group is happy, as in all the surgeons he has hired over the years to work in collaboration with him. Not employees, but people who have a part of the practice.
With B there is more “potential” but likely also more ego in the way.
Yes there always have to be minions somewhere in there. Contracts or not – agreed.
As for me, I don’t have to work for B if we move to Newport – I have another job offer in the area entirely separate from B.
San Diego follow up questions will be answered next week, as well as a closer look at both.
Time is on our side, as well as the liberty of choice. Phew!
- This reply was modified 5 years ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you for your feedback. I like when you are direct and honest – that is what talking like this is all about!
So a lot of what you stated is correct.
Especially the aspect of this man having an ego, and knowing this prestige of his will attract young surgeons.
However, he also has a reputation for being a great surgeon and a good man – based on some of the other colleagues we know in the area. The ruler, one, of the empire is correct though.
As far as younger surgeons being the minions. The surgeon who joined a few years ago was helped by B to get busy. He is now independently busy and takes home the money he makes after paying the overhead. That is it. So the busier the surgeon is the better he will do, as busy as he wants to be in a way.
The amount that my husband or any other one would share from the gross outcome of the whole practice will be based on percentages signed in a contract. We are not looking to become like B, just want my husband to have more flexibility in his life and ability to make use of his talent. Which he would be able to do in both practices.
As far as my opportunity. B would employ me and I would get referrals for pain management, I would then be able to send surgical candidates to my husband – further enhancing his productivity when those situations arise. It isn’t exactly like the actress situation as I would be a contracted physician in his group, just like another pain management doctor he has from 10 years ago who is saturated and has a need to share with another doctor now. I have a phone call with this physician next week.
Yes what you said about SD is ABSOLUTELY correct – in the sense of more laid back, less ago, and family oriented. We will review the numbers and contracts for both to see growth potential and all – and also compare different details. In San Diego my husband may have to be on call certain times, in Newport – will not.
There is a lot to consider and there is at least a month to go back and forth, more phone calls, talks, thoughts, etc.
First and foremost – there are 2 great options!
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Excellent question. no he is not, in fact that surgeon we visited 2 years ago used to work for this current one, B – small world, we learned of this during our visit- but that one went off on his own from B. This current surgeon B stated that the other wasn’t so great, and went off on his own to build a name and wanted his own “empire”. I do believe this as we got a weird vibe from that other one at the end of it all, he seemed money hungry and wanted younger surgeons to make himself more succesful it seems – and decided to not pursue it.
Of course have to take everything with a grain of salt when meeting new people, whatever B says.
B is already extremely successful on his own, has an incredible name and practice, and will look to retire in the next 5-8 years or so. He wants to continue to expand his brand and what he has built. He last hired a young surgeon 3 years ago, whom we met. And is looking to now add someone new as his volume continues to grow.
In both of these scenarios it won’t be that way of not having money until later on – as he will be supported financially with a salary day one. That prior surgeon was asking for a lot of overhead costs from my husband to be paid in the first year – even while he would be ramping up and not so busy yet with patients as he would be new. That prior surgeon appears to be someone who wants to use younger surgeons.
Neither of these practices expect this, they are fair, and will support financially in the first year of ramping up
- This reply was modified 5 years ago by Cali Chica.
- This reply was modified 5 years ago by Cali Chica.
- This reply was modified 5 years ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I agree.
We will be in Southern OC in the coastal area, so weather will be similar to SD. Yet, I prefer the vibe in SD much more – and the breezy aspect. The people are also less uptight – for many different reasons that are varied.
So the jobs – I am only focusing on his jobs here, as my jobs are secondary at this time as i have many more options in both areas. The decision will be based on what the best is overall of course.
1- San Diego
There is a large surgical group that is looking to hire an additional surgeon as there is a need due to patient volume. It is in a great location and we would be able to live in one of the many amazing coastal beach towns and commute will be easy.
The surgeons in the group are very laid back and family oriented. We spend a good amount of time with them, and they try hard to maintain a work life balance from what we experienced. Financially they seem to do pretty well, and are not killing themselves to work too too crazy.
Overall theme: laid back
1- Newport Beach
As you know an affluent area, with a more competitive edge. Likewise the job is similar. This opportunity is very different.
There is a well known, renowned surgeon let’s call him B, that has built this large empire almost. He himself has operated on many celebrities, and has an incredible reputation. He is in his 60s. Over the years he has hired younger surgeons and taking them on as almost an apprentice so to speak. Hiring them, supporting them with a salary, helping them get busy. In a year or 2 these surgeons then are able to be more independent. Financially this practice does much better, but of course it is more work it seems and more entrepreneurial. Someone like my husband would spend a year or 2 ramping up his practice, and then be independently able to thrive – as the plan would be. He would have financial opportunities to make a cut of what the whole practice makes, which appears to be quite lucrative. B is very well connected and wants to take me on as a pain management and wellness doctor/expert – and help develop my career as well. With him I would have opportunities to do so- and many of the things we have talked about in the past years.
Overall theme: “go getter”
- This reply was modified 5 years ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good option to have! Why not! the treadmill I mean
Noise prevention is key, no matter what neighborhoods we live in right? Living in NYC does not mean I have more internal noise in my head, and living in the mountains does not mean less. It is all in the state of mind.
You reiterated several times the zero aggression policy with my husband. How important, and how rewarding.
Having the flu and then traveling to CA and going to meetings and interviews – well that is a bonding experience if I ever had one. The care and concern he took for me, and the way we were able to “power through” together was amazing.
I didn’t make that week about anyone else except him. Yes, there some hiccups – but I quickly re-centered myself.
In your Ursula post, you mentioned that when others take my time, my roar gets louder – indeed it does.
It feels like they are scraping an already empty pot. During this flu week I learned how to assert myself and my needs and boundaries. The other party did not necessarily understand – but it didn’t matter this time. It did NOT matter.
The other thing is that although that whole time was frenzied, we managed to take our time. How ironic! It is because we made time for our thoughts, not those outside of ourselves. No one else was involved.
We are in between 2 jobs.
1- San Diego
2- Newport Beach/Orange county
Location wise – love love love SD.
Job wise, both different in many ways.
I wonder what location you like better… I will tell you more about the jobs in my next post
- This reply was modified 5 years ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Unnecessary noise prevention! Yes!
How are you doing? How have you been feeling?
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Yes! You know how I value our connection!
I haven’t told my work yet. I haven’t been so vocal about all of these forthcoming changes with my friends because I am avoiding what old CC would do: take everyone’s input and diminish her own voice.
This is the decision of myself and husband, no more. And thus there is no need to bring on too many voices at this time. Simplicity is key.
Our talks though, that is entirely different!
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