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Mary899

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  • August 18, 2017 at 12:27 am in reply to: How can I let go without feeling guilty? #164524
    Mary899
    Participant

    Hi Eliana,

     

    Again, thank you for your soothing words.

     

    I agree with you about forgiveness and resentment…resentment only result in me suffering, so I need to learn to let go.

     

    Unfortunately, total avoidance is not a real option as I have to pass a large number of courses with them and our classrooms are too  small.

     

    The thing is, with regards to the narcissist, I’ve already forgiven her and have even felt pity for her…although I’ve decided to keep as great a distance as possible.

     

    However, with regards to the friend who this post is about…I’ve forgiven her for what she has said and done, but I don’t seem to be able to forgive myself. As I was hurt, I said things with regards to her and her behavior to the N, whom I previously thought of as trustworthy…among them are things that I’m not that much proud of. After the fight with the narcissist, she went to her and supposedly told her everything that I had said with regards to her.

     

    It still scares me when I think about it. I already had trouble forgiving myself for having made some unkind remarks about her BEFORE the N’s betrayal.  After  witnessing the N taking her aside and whispering in her ear right in front of my own eyes, with me being able to do absolutely nothing at the time, the sense of guilt was doubled. It turned into a painful anguish when I texted the friend after that and she didn’t reply. I felt worthless, rejected and betrayed…a horrible person.

     

    Now I don’t know what to do to let go of the sense of guilt. Sometimes I can bring myself to laugh at how stupid and childish the whole thing is…other times, I’m paralyzed with remorse, guilt and shame.

     

    Mary

    August 17, 2017 at 1:41 pm in reply to: How can I let go without feeling guilty? #164490
    Mary899
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I agree, it is a headache. A painful one. As I don’r seem to reach any logical decisions, I guess I need to let go of the whole thing.

    With regards to the narcissist…I didn’t know there is a so called personality disorder at the time I was in a friendship with her. I truly loved her as at first, she appeared to love and accept me for who I am, warts and all. I was nore than willing to do the same for her. It was only after what happened over a very trivial misunderstanding that I realized true friends don’t treat each other like that…true friends don’t threaten you to get revenge or call you names. Therefore, I decided I’d rather get out of a friendship which no longer served me, even if it meant I might lose a couple of other friends and have my reputation ruined by her, which is exactly the thing that happened.

    With regards to the other friend…I see your point and I agree with you about my own dishonesty. The thing, however, is that I never disliked “her”. That would be too general. I didn’t appreciate her being too critical and disrespectful behavior towards me at times and at the same time I kept beating myself up for being too sensitive. Still, that doesn’t change the fact that I was forcing myself to stay in a place which I didn’t feel comfortable in, and I do believe that is a form of being dishonest…mostly to myself.

    As you said, I need to learn to become more selective with regards to choosing friends. I need to learn being lonely is much better than forcing yourself to stay in toxic relationships to avoid feeling lonely.

     

    So you believe the mess created with these two women cannot be fixed. I already knew that my relationship with the N was beyond reparable…I had some hopes in fixing the other one, but now I can see clearly that despite having good moments,  the foundations of that relationship had been shaky all along the way.

    One question remains…now that all the doors are closed with regards to these people, how can I let go of my sense of guilt for possibly having hurt their feelings?

     

    Mary

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    August 17, 2017 at 11:56 am in reply to: How can I let go without feeling guilty? #164454
    Mary899
    Participant

    Hi Eliana,

    I’m so sorry to hear you’ve also been bullied by your “best friends”, and it’s been going on even to this day. To have trusted somebody who claimed that they loved you with your secrets and emotions, only to have them thrown at you and used against you…I had never experienced such a grand level of betrayal in my entire life. The level of paralysis is beyond imaginable. I had  prepared a long summer reading list… During the summer I couldn’t concentrate enough to read anything. I wonder how long it’s going to take for me to get back to normal life. You say it’ll get better…thank you. That gives hope.

     

    There is sth that I have trouble understanding. OK,  so this person is a narcissist, has got a problem with me, and is now trying to destroy my relationships with other classmates. The question is…why don’t these people seem to be able to put two and two together and realize what is happening? They’ve known both me and her for 3 years…as you said “I’m the nice girl, sensitive, who is giving, kind, wears her heart on her sleeve” Why have they all rejected me and have taken sides with the N?

     

    Thank you for your advice. I’m OK with not showing any signs of anger…but fear and resentment…I still have to work on those two. Unfortunately, I’m the type who gives her emotions away through facial expressions. What do you think I can do to minimize such effects?

     

    Right now I’m back at my home city surrounded by supportive family members and friends. However, I dread going back to square one as soon as I have to go back to the capital, the place where my college is stated.

     

    Again, thank you so much for your soothing words Eliana.

     

    Love,

    Mary

     

     

    August 16, 2017 at 9:32 pm in reply to: How can I let go without feeling guilty? #164344
    Mary899
    Participant

    Hi Eliana,

    Thank you for you reply.

    Oh well. If only turning “blue in the face” was the only side effect. For an entire month I couldn’t eat, sleep or basically enjoy life the way I used to. I had to seek therapy, and STILL I have nightmares with them in it. People say I’m making a mountain out of a molehill…I don’t know. All I know is that it hurts. Badly.

    These women are a group of college classmates…which means that after the end of summer vacations I’ve got to see them again on a daily basis. During the summer the Narcissist made a few attempts to contact me… I didn’t reply. I had already made my decision to stay as far away from her as possible. Immediately she started slandering me and turning other people against me. Defending myself was of no use. After doing all of this, one day she texted me and said how come I no longer send her my best wishes on her birthday!

    We  also have a mutual friend (she’s genuinely nice and caring) who is going out of her way to restore peace. She constantly asks me to let go, think about the good moments that we had with the N, reminding me that I actually did certain wrong things which provoked her like this, finally telling me it was irrational of me to destroy “years of friendship” like this. At the same time she’s gone to the N and had probably asked her to forgive me. I love this mutual friend, but I honestly don’t think what she’s doing as a peacemaker is helping the situation. How am I supposed to deal with her?

    The summer vacation is approaching its end, and  honestly I still dread what is going to come after that. The thought of having to seat side by side to a group of people who are not afraid of smashing you in every way possible is scary, especially now that I’ve decided not to give in to any threats such as ” I will let your angelic mask fall off in front of others”.

     

    How do you think is the best way to let go of this fear?

     

    Mary

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Mary899.
    August 16, 2017 at 11:56 am in reply to: How can I let go without feeling guilty? #164284
    Mary899
    Participant

    Dear Anita,
    You say I should only apologize if I believe what I said or did is wrong. The truth is that, with regards to this situation, I no longer know what is right or wrong anymore. Is telling somebody that you’re hurt by someone else’s behavior “wrong”? Was it wrong of me when I said “if she’s going to be on the trip, I’m not going.”? The thing is I didn’t even remember having said such a thing until the Narcissist brought it up, saying that she’s gonna let her know what I’d been saying behind her back. I said to N I didn’t actually mean it, that I felt regretful after having said that and that is why I later asked her (the friend) if she  wanted to go with us on that trip. However, the N had already made her decision to “take revenge”, saying: “Why do I always have to appear to be the bad guy, and you the innocent angelic one? I’m gonna let everyone know what a huge hypocrite you are.”
    I’ve tried to write everything as clearly as possible. Generally, I don’t consider myself to be a hypocrite…however, sometimes I think maybe there is some truth in what the N says. What do you think, Anita? I actually need an objective point of view to see things clearly.

     

    Mary

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Mary899.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Mary899.
    August 16, 2017 at 4:09 am in reply to: family & friends who hurt you badly #164194
    Mary899
    Participant

     

    Dear wildoceanflower:

    Let me start by saying how much I love your username…it’s so unique and beautiful.

     

    I know what you’re going through. Like, literary. As I was reading your posts I felt a strange sense of identification. I, too, was raised by, to use a euphemism, an inconsiderate mother. When I was old enough to make my own life decisions I decided I no longer wanted the same patterns that I had experienced in my relationship with my mom to repeat themselves. If my mom couldn’t appreciate me for who I was, perhaps other people could. I decided to be as kind, empathic, and self sacrificing as I could. After all, nobody  could bring themselves to treat someone that nice poorly, right?

     

    Wrong.

     

    My “niceness” resulted in me attracting a couple of people who, at the beginning of our relationship, put me on a pedestal. At first they all complimented my kindness, innocence, generosity, honesty, you name it.  At the same time, however, they judged, gosspiped about,  and condemned others in the most brutal way for the most childish reasons. I used to feel both good and worried at the same time…I felt good about how I had “earned” the love of such difficult people…deep down, however, I could feel that sth wasn’t right.

     

    And it wasn’t. In fact, a lot of things weren’t. The same old pattern with mom was at its work and I didn’t know that at the time. I soon realized that I was going out of my way to please these people, to keep things cool by apologizing even when I was accused of sth that I hadn’t done. And you know, all along the way I though there was sth wrong with ME, not them. Perhaps if could learn to be more forgiving, more accepting, more generous, things would work out somehow.

     

    They didn’t. There came a point when I had had enough. I quit playing the game as decently as possible. I stepped out.

     

    It didn’t end up as easily as that however. The consequences were disastrous. I lost “friends”, I had my reputation as an honest, kind and considerate person smeared, I was humiliated, threatened, backstabbed, and slandered. I was shattered to pieces, both within and without.

     

    I couldn’t eat, sleep,  or enjoy life the way I used to. First my mom, and now this. Every single thing seemed beyond helpless. As I still live with my parents, I had my mom to constantly confirm all my doubts, saying I had brought  all of this upon myself. I wondered if I could ever make my way out of this dark, deep, scary hole.

     

    The thing is, although I can’t claim I’ve reached at the top, I know I’m on the right track, and you will be too.

     

    The first thing I want you to know is that no matter what you’ve been said, or currently believe, no matter how bleak things may seem right now in your life,  YOU ARE NOT A LOSER. The qualities that you listed such as generosity, kindness, empathy, niceness, and the willingness to own up to your mistakes…none of them is a sign of weakness. In fact, quite the opposite is true. They are rare, beautiful, and a sign of strength and bravery. Just like any other valuable asset, however, they have to be protected and used with care, saved only for those who are worthy. And who do you think deserves these gifts the most? That’s it, you. You say you are willing to have children so that you can feel a sense of purpose in your life, before the right time for that arrives, how about giving your own inner child a chance? How about trying to make peace with your little self, to give her all the things that your mother wasn’t able to give her, namely, and most importantly, unconditional love?

     

    If we’re able to love and respect ourselves unconditionally, regardless of our past (and future) mistakes and regardless of our imperfections, things will start to work themselves out in one way or another. This doesn’t mean that other people will suddenly start behaving the way we want them to. It means that we respect ourselves enough to distinguish between what is healthy and what is not, and be willing to let go of what is not without feeling pain, guilt, feeling of being undesirable and unworthy. You have to believe that your worth is not determined by your relationships, your achievements in life or even you being a nice, caring person. You deserve love and respect simply because you exist.

     

    The beautiful thing about truly believing in this is that once we love and respect ourselves enough, we no longer settle for and hang on to crappy relationships. We don’t beg for love from unhealthy people who have let us down and smashed us again and again. We believe that we deserve more, and we will get more. This is not to say that we should sit around waiting for people to have let out down to change and finally return all of our favors, or at least don’t bite the hand that has fed them. That’ll not happen (Trust me, I have tested that and failed miserably), and we’ll remain unhappy and dissatisfied. What it means is that as we know that we deserve more, we’ll start to let healthier, more stable people in our lives…people who love us for who we are and not for what we do for them. People who we don’t have to “earn” their love by going out of our way to please them.

     

    People like ourselves.

     

    I wish all the best for you on your journey. It can be a marvelous one, but only if you believe that you deserve it.

     

    Mary

    August 16, 2017 at 4:08 am in reply to: family & friends who hurt you badly #164192
    Mary899
    Participant

     

     

    Let me start by saying how much I love your username…it’s so unique and beautiful.

     

    I know what you’re going through. Like, literary. As I was reading your posts I felt a strange sense of identification. I, too, was raised by, to use a euphemism, an inconsiderate mother. When I was old enough to make my own life decisions I decided I no longer wanted the same patterns that I had experienced in my relationship with my mom to repeat themselves. If my mom couldn’t appreciate me for who I was, perhaps other people could. I decided to be as kind, empathic, and self sacrificing as I could. After all, nobody  could bring themselves to treat someone that nice poorly, right?

     

    Wrong.

     

    My “niceness” resulted in me attracting a couple of people who, at the beginning of our relationship, put me on a pedestal. At first they all complimented my kindness, innocence, generosity, honesty, you name it.  At the same time, however, they judged, gosspiped about,  and condemned others in the most brutal way for the most childish reasons. I used to feel both good and worried at the same time…I felt good about how I had “earned” the love of such difficult people…deep down, however, I could feel that sth wasn’t right.

     

    And it wasn’t. In fact, a lot of things weren’t. The same old pattern with mom was at its work and I didn’t know that at the time. I soon realized that I was going out of my way to please these people, to keep things cool by apologizing even when I was accused of sth that I hadn’t done. And you know, all along the way I though there was sth wrong with ME, not them. Perhaps if could learn to be more forgiving, more accepting, more generous, things would work out somehow.

     

    They didn’t. There came a point when I had had enough. I quit playing the game as decently as possible. I stepped out.

     

    It didn’t end up as easily as that however. The consequences were disastrous. I lost “friends”, I had my reputation as an honest, kind and considerate person smeared, I was humiliated, threatened, backstabbed, and slandered. I was shattered to pieces, both within and without.

     

    I couldn’t eat, sleep,  or enjoy life the way I used to. First my mom, and now this. Every single thing seemed beyond helpless. As I still live with my parents, I had my mom to constantly confirm all my doubts, saying I had brought  all of this upon myself. I wondered if I could ever make my way out of this dark, deep, scary hole.

     

    The thing is, although I can’t claim I’ve reached at the top, I know I’m on the right track, and you will be too.

     

    The first thing I want you to know is that no matter what you’ve been said, or currently believe, no matter how bleak things may seem right now in your life,  YOU ARE NOT A LOSER. The qualities that you listed such as generosity, kindness, empathy, niceness, and the willingness to own up to your mistakes…none of them is a sign of weakness. In fact, quite the opposite is true. They are rare, beautiful, and a sign of strength and bravery. Just like any other valuable asset, however, they have to be protected and used with care, saved only for those who are worthy. And who do you think deserves these gifts the most? That’s it, you. You say you are willing to have children so that you can feel a sense of purpose in your life, before the right time for that arrives, how about giving your own inner child a chance? How about trying to make peace with your little self, to give her all the things that your mother wasn’t able to give her, namely, and most importantly, unconditional love?

     

    If we’re able to love and respect ourselves unconditionally, regardless of our past (and future) mistakes and regardless of our imperfections, things will start to work themselves out in one way or another. This doesn’t mean that other people will suddenly start behaving the way we want them to. It means that we respect ourselves enough to distinguish between what is healthy and what is not, and be willing to let go of what is not without feeling pain, guilt, feeling of being undesirable and unworthy. You have to believe that your worth is not determined by your relationships, your achievements in life or even you being a nice, caring person. You deserve love and respect simply because you exist.

     

    The beautiful thing about truly believing in this is that once we love and respect ourselves enough, we no longer settle for and hang on to crappy relationships. We don’t beg for love from unhealthy people who have let us down and smashed us again and again. We believe that we deserve more, and we will get more. This is not to say that we should sit around waiting for people to have let out down to change and finally return all of our favors, or at least don’t bite the hand that has fed them. That’ll not happen (Trust me, I have tested that and failed miserably), and we’ll remain unhappy and dissatisfied. What it means is that as we know that we deserve more, we’ll start to let healthier, more stable people in our lives…people who love us for who we are and not for what we do for them. People who we don’t have to “earn” their love by going out of our way to please them.

     

    People like ourselves.

     

    I wish all the best for you on your journey. It can be a marvelous one, but only if you believe that you deserve it.

     

    Mary

    August 15, 2017 at 10:32 pm in reply to: How can I let go without feeling guilty? #164178
    Mary899
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

     

    You don’t know what a great burden was gotten off my chest when I read your reply, so thank you 🙂

     

    Actually, both of the quotes that you mentioned in your reply refer to the same person. I read my post again and I realized in some places it was hard to keep track of who I was talking about. Sorry for that.

     

    So you believe distancing myself from her would have been the best option from your objecting point of view…how I wish I had started this post much earlier!

     

    But what about the things that the narcissist has said to her about me? After making a failed attempt to clear the air (as I said she didn’t reply) I’ve decided to let things go, to keep my distance, and to let her believe whatever she wants to believe, such as I was the (only) one who had problems with her all along way. Do you think it’s a wise decision?

     

    The thing is I am ok with apologizing for what I have said to the Narcissist with regards to her. I don’t remember all my words, but I know they were mainly about how her behavior had hurt me. I also don’t know to what level the N has exaggerated what I had actually said. However, I don’t think apologizing is going to be of any use, and I don’t know if it is a good idea or not in the first place. Is it?

     

     

    Thank you again.

     

    Love,

    Mary

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Mary899.
    August 8, 2017 at 9:33 pm in reply to: Smear Campaign: How should I cope? #162966
    Mary899
    Participant

    Hi Peace,

    I googled the pictures of the forest that you mentioned, and it is such a beautiful place indeed! Again, I wish you a marvelous trip.

    You are right, the only way to overcome irrational fears and worries is through spirituality and getting in deeper touch with nature.

    Thank you for your supporting words. I wish there comes a day that I no longer care about what anybody else thinks of me, to be perfectly OK with the fact that I am not perfect, and to live my life as fearlessly as possible.

     

    Have a great time.

    Mary

     

     

     

    August 8, 2017 at 3:29 am in reply to: Smear Campaign: How should I cope? #162788
    Mary899
    Participant

    Hi Pearce,

    Wishing you a great trip, and thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.

    I came to learn about narcissism only after I had already taken the bait. As you said they are extremely patient people. When I finally decided I no longer wanted to be a part of the game, I was taken aback by how relentless they were in their pursuit of destroying me. It was as if they had recorded every single word that I had uttered, and they threatened me that they’re gonna use this information to ruin my reputation. However, I decided that I’d rather have my good reputation “ruined” in the eye of a couple of classmates than to continue living under the narcissist’s control and staying in a toxic friendship. Curtently we’re on our summer vacation, and although I still haven’t completely overcome the fear of what they might do next to hurt me, and how I’m supposed to deal with those who used to be friends and now have been turned against me, I’m trying my best to be as brave as I can, and mostly to forgive myself to have put my trust in the wrong place.

     

    August 7, 2017 at 12:23 am in reply to: Smear Campaign: How should I cope? #162612
    Mary899
    Participant

    Hi Inky,

    Thank you so much for your advice.

     

    Oh well. I DID try what you said. Some made it obvious the yes were not interested in talking to me, and the one who did listen confronted them (Although I asked them not to) which resulted in the narcissist’s pouring in all sorts of insults, accusing me of “playing the victim”.

    Truth is the narc is somehow the leader of the class and has twisted nearly everyone around their little finger, so I’m pretty much alone. Besides, those who knew them for who they are prefer to stay away and do as they wish in the fear that they may be their next victim.

    It’s gonna be a tough year…but I need to cope. Mostly I don’t want this to affect my studies, so I have to learn to let go more easily.

    Again, thank you for your supporting words

    August 7, 2017 at 12:02 am in reply to: Smear Campaign: How should I cope? #162608
    Mary899
    Participant

    Hi Pearce,

    Thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply.☺

    I agree that the term “Narcissist” may be used rather carelessly. For a long period of time I had thoughts such as “Maybe it’s just me,”,”Maybe I’m exaggerating stuff”, “Maybe I’m just being too sensitive”, however, after reading dozens of articles on narcissism, I could finally persuade myself that it wasn’t all about me.

    Thank you for the recommendation of the book! I have the PDF available, and I’m surely gonna read it.

    So you have gone through the same thing in university? It must have been very difficult…losing all your “friends” at once. How could you stay focused on your studies? Didn’t they try to seek “revenge” after you decided you wanted to stay away at all costs?

    It is very true that hoping for a narcissist to change their behavior  is totally a waste of energy. It’s been a while that this game has been going on, and the only reason that I had been staying in it for too long was that I was afraid of what the narcissist may do if I stand up to them and leave the game. I’m hoping for the day that I deeply don’t  care about what they say or do in order to “punish” me.

     

    Thank you again!

    Mary

     

     

     

    August 6, 2017 at 10:53 pm in reply to: Smear Campaign: How should I cope? #162604
    Mary899
    Participant

    Hi anita,

    Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately they have made it obvious that they’re not interested in hearing what I have to say. I tried reaching out to them willing to talk things out, only to be rejected by them.

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