To me ego is the identity one assigns to themselves. The concept me being my own entity separate from others comes from the ego. And I had mentioned earlier that I think the ego is there to protect us. Surely, life would be a lot easier if we let go of my understanding of ego because the number of things that matter would dramatically reduce. But at the same time, if I don’t have that ego wouldn’t it be hard to protect myself from others?

In the first sentence you make the statement – “The ego is the identity” (ego = identity) You can how suffering might result. I am a athlete, my self of self, my identity is attached to my athletic ability. I break my leg and can no longer perform. Who am I? Ego experienced as identify is prone to Inflation (Feelings that we are better than we are. I am better than you because I am a better athlete) and Deflation (I am nothing because you are a better athlete then I).  Perhaps you notice how both inflation and deflation are measurements that separate us from the other. Not in the healthy way that would aid someone to learning to live in harmony with others and themselves. Nothing produces more conflict, tribalism, disharmony then when ego = identity and it feels threatened.

How do I see ego? I picture ego as the part of ourselves that communicates experience. A tool we use to help one understand, learn, keep safe, become conscious…. I have an ego, it is useful, I am not my ego.

My feeling is that in the East there is a tendency to negate the ego often resulting in a lack of energy to engage, while in the West a tendency toward over identifying with ego resulting in a need to dominate, consume, own…

As you mentioned ego plays a important role in keeping one safe, the question might be then is how it does so? Ego as Identity? or Ego as container, communicator,  boundaries?

I mentioned Jung’s statement – ‘It take a healthy ego to let go of ego’. Jung suggested that the first half of life task was to develop a healthy container (ego). A neither inflated nor deflated sense of self, healthy boundaries that was capable of providing for itself, family, society…) The second half of life task involves the paradox of separating oneself from others, which at the same time recognizes the other as/in themselves. Which naturally flows into compassion for ourselves and others. A drop in the ocean contains the ocean…

This was a lesson I also learned in dancing. When you start to take classes to learn the rhythms and rules. A waltz looks like this, a Cha Cha like this. Eventually the student will be told that to dance they must ‘forget‘ what they learned to dance. But not until they developed the ‘container’. To break the rules, one must know the rules. Forget is probably the wrong word as what happens is that the student learns to Trust what they learned, trust that the body knows (Body always knew how to dance, the student must work for that which the body already knows. Like the statue that already exists in the stone)

Another story

A man traveling along a path came to a great expanse of water. As he stood on the shore, he realized there were dangers and discomforts all about. But the other shore appeared safe and inviting. The man looked for a boat or a bridge and found neither. But with great effort he gathered grass, twigs and branches and tied them all together to make a simple raft. Relying on the raft to keep himself afloat, the man paddled with his hands and feet and reached the safety of the other shore. He could continue his journey on dry land.

Now, what would he do with his makeshift raft? Would he drag it along with him or leave it behind? He would leave it, the Buddha said. Then the Buddha explained that the dharma is like a raft. It is useful for crossing over but not for holding onto….

I agree with Tommy’s concern with the word ‘seek’  as we tend to see the world as we are not as it is, thier will be a tendency to find what we expect to find.

Note however that Seek does not stand alone in the formula. The seeker seeks, knocks and waits.  Note how the knock (not passive) creates vibrations…. and puts into motion… as we wait the ripples pushing aside that which may cloud our vision, the water better able to reflect what is…..

Here is a riddle for you. When does a seeker become a finder?

Hi Samy Great thoughts

I  wonder why is identifying with emotions bad? In a non dualistic way of good and bad concepts disappear.  🙂 as for example anger can be experienced as both, even at the same moment in time.  The intention is to experience the emotion without attaching a sense of self to it. To allow the experience flow which is I guess a kind of letting go (working for that which no work is required – the moment has passed –  if so what is it that we are holding on to (attaching to) ) 

But did it change anything? Whether Lion killed motivated by nature or anger, the rabbit would still be dead. If you witness the killing and could verify that the Lion killed out of anger. Has your image and feelings toward the Lion changed, perhaps you might view the Lion with less compassion and as a other? Attaching to the Lion labels – like Lion is what it did vice the Lion did a ugly thing.

I Just worrying about what true detachment. A helpful concern to be mindful of. For myself I often find myself falling into the trap of indifference. When I notice that, I know that my practice of detachment has become something else.  Thus the Practice of mindfulness. (note that the practice of mindfulness also involves avoiding attaching our sense of self to labels, thoughts, emotions 🙂 Mindfulness is about noticing. We are better able to notice when we practice detachment. Which comes first Mindfulness OR Detachment? The question is dualistic thinking 🙂 There is no OR… or First)

I also feel that the Practice of healthy detachment creates healthy boundaries, that lead to Compassion where the idea of the ‘Other’ dissolves.  I suspect a unhealthy detachment sets one back into dualistic thinking, Tribalism, Us verses Them…

Where do you learn your lessons from?  Books have been my primary learning tool and the seem to show up when I’m ready for them. (its one thing to read/know of something quite another to integrate it, make it your own). Something Jung  noted had a big impact – He said that it takes a healthy ego (healthy sense of self) to be able  ‘let go’ of ego (letting go of ego here is not  denying the ego only avoiding identifying (attaching) the sense of self to ego)  Thus again we work for that which no work is required)

I also learned a a lot from taking ballroom dancing classes and approaching it as a practice.  Practicing being still while physically engaged in dancing and connected to a partner. Engaged while detached from outcome…  (as above so below, as below so above – the riddle of alchemy)

A Zen practice of being mindful/present while we perform our tasks, one begins to notice when the inner state is influencing the outer experience Or when the outer experience is influencing the inner. (Note in a pervious post where I mentioned that a Answer Of No to the question of ‘Life as it Is’ didn’t end the cycle of suffering. One of the reasons is that a NO usually involves trying to change life from the Outside as a act of will (often about wanting to control Life) were we have very little influence. While a YES comes from a place that starts from within, where we have influence, (if not always control) that flows with Life.)

Their is a idea of ‘Concentration without Effort’  A kind of act of will/intention that is the is a letting go of will…  words fail in trying to explain… kind of the difference between reading a book and being open to the book reading you…

Anyway You can trust that when you are ready (open without forcing yourself to be open) the ‘teacher’  will show themselves to you.

There is a saying Knock and the Door will open, Seek and you shell find. I would add that we can seek and we can knock and then we must wait at the door to open in its time. We ought not to try to open the door ourselves or force it open.

Thus I ponder the words of TS Eliot as I imagine knocking at the door and waiting: – “I ask to my soul, be still and wait without hope, for hope would be hope for the wrong thing; wait without love, for love would be love of the wrong thing; there is yet faith, but the faith and the love are all in the waiting. Wait without thought, for you are not ready for thought: So the darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.”

But if that is the case, is there room for morality? Harming others is bad, don’t we need to label it as such. This is what I’m struggling with. What do you accept and what do you label and dislike/ reject/ try to change.

Yes their is room.  The intention is to be Detached (from the labels and such) AND engaged with ones truth. The challenge is that a such a detachment can easily become indifference.

Another story

A samurai warrior had the duty to avenge the murder of his overlord. After some time, the samurai found and cornered the man who had murdered his overlord. He was about to deal with him with his samurai sword, when this man in the corner, in the passion of terror, spat in his face. And the samurai sheathed the sword and walked away.

Hi Sammy

How to reconcile existence (life) with the fact that to experience existence (life) is to experience suffering?

Life a continues cycle of birth and death. Spring dies to Summer which dies to Fall which dies to Winter with gives birth to Spring which gives birth to Summer which gives birth to Fall which gives birth to Winter….

Life feeds off of Life = inevitable suffering.

The duality (ego) consciousness experiences life as suffering and joy. We tend to pay more attention to pain, fear and measure accordingly. (So Life is suffering) Note how in a day of 10 memorable moments were one of them is negative how most people when asked about their day will think only of the negative one. In general duality consciousness is not very skilled at measuring = more suffering)

All things in thier time and a time for all things.

For a Non-dual consciousness Birth and death are not opposites as they cannot be separated, they occur together in every moment no mater how big or small.  Every creation is also a destruction, every destruction also a creation. To a unitive mind they are one ‘thing’.

Joseph Campbell suggested each of our stories is a story of the hero’s journey. THE Question that is behind each quest being ‘How to Respond to the Realty that Life devours life for Life. How to respond to ‘Life As It Is’ is wonder and horror?

Every Wisdom tradition attempts to help us answer that question for ourselves. (Not just answer but to be that answer) Oddly each wisdom tradition answer can be interpreted as both a Yes OR No by those engaged in the teaching. For Example many might say that Buddhist answer the question with a NO get me off this cycle of life that is suffering. Yet the teachings of the Buddha Gautama points to a answer of YES now go and engage ‘Life As It Is’ . (the paradox being that this YES to ‘Life As It Is’ , fully integrated in ones being, ends the cycle.) Through the practice of Detachment (not indifference) one can be Still while fully engaged. You have experiences and emotions verses you are your experiences and your emotions…

Likewise I think Christianity. The dogmas and theology tend to point to a answer of No we can fix Life if we follow the rules while Jesus teaching point to a answer with a YES, follow me engage with LIFE AS IT IS – Birth Death Reresection the reality of every breathe we take (as well as all phycological growth)

Perhaps a answer of YES requires a higher level of non-duality consciousness… if higher and lower were opposites and meant something 🙂 I would also note that every wisdom teaching  I have come across that express the concept of levels of consciousness the ‘highest level’ is always one involving non-duality. (In Jungian path to Individuation coming to terms with the problem of opposites) 

And so we work for that which no work is required. (How’s that for a paradox) 🙂

“Harry, This pain is part of being human —”

“THEN — I — DON’T — WANT — TO — BE — HUMAN!” Harry roared, and he seized one of the delicate silver instruments from the spindle-legged table beside him and flung it across the room. It shattered into a hundred tiny pieces against the wall. Several of the pictures let out yells of anger and fright, and the portrait of Armando Dippet said, “Really!”

“I DON’T CARE!” Harry yelled at them, snatching up a lunascope and throwing it into the fireplace. “I’VE HAD ENOUGH, I’VE SEEN ENOUGH, I WANT OUT, I WANT IT TO END, I DON’T CARE ANYMORE —”

He seized the table on which the silver instrument had stood and threw that too. It broke apart on the floor and the legs rolled in different directions.

“You do care,” said Dumbledore. He had not flinched or made a single move to stop Harry demolishing his office. His expression was calm, almost detached. “You care so much you feel as though you will bleed to death with the pain of it. JK Rowling”

Such is the paradox of Pain… Only a open heart can be broken, and broken, opened…

“People are afraid of themselves, of their own reality; their feelings most of all. People talk about how great love is, but that’s bullshit. Love hurts. Feelings are disturbing. People are taught that pain is evil and dangerous. How can they deal with love if they’re afraid to feel? Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they’re wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It’s all in how you carry it. That’s what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you’re letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain.”
― Jim Morrison

Hi Javier

So many people have trouble asking and accepting help. Myself included. Like you it feels like something I’m just not capable of doing. Even when I do reach out their are parts of me that hold back. So frustrating getting in my own way. In my case I don’t think its my mind that won’t let me accept help but a deep routed fear of being vulnerable, rejected, asked to do something I don’t want to… so many fears. At the root of all the fears that I can’t and wont be Loved.  To live in the pain and loneliness of not taking the risk to love and be loved OR living in the pain of the fear of taking the risk and having it confirmed.  I am not a brave man.

I envy everyone, I’m jealous of peaceful and carefree they look. I’m not sure how to cope, how to live, how to get inner peace.

One thing I am sure about is that very few people are as peaceful and carefree as the look. Jealousy is a waist of time. No one gets to ‘know’ how another is experiencing themselves and Compassion only asks that we be kind, to others and ourselves, and not assume. A sure fire way of remaining stuck is comparing ourselves to others and thinking ‘if only’. In a odd way I think it gives us permission, a excuse,  to remain as we are even as we work so hard to grow and move forward.

Now I’m afraid that there are no options left

My gut tells me that the way out isn’t up but down and through. To feel what one feels without labeling or measuring. Sometimes we reach a point where all the self help and analyzing becomes a way of avoiding feeling what we feel. We keep on seeking to avoid finding.

I think of a person caught in a riptide our undertow, the more they struggle the more likely they will tire and drown.  The key to getting out of such a situation is to remain calm.

There is a time for all things. Up to this point reading through your post I picture someone who has and is trying everything except being still. If the problem comes from the mind, allow the mind to be still. That dos not mean having no thoughts but the practice of not attaching oneself a thought. Labeling , measuring , judging it, if only… our thoughts… Thoughts flow you are not your thoughts. Once can be still within the tempest of ones thoughts.

This year I start my meditation (and before I go to sleep) with the following from TS Elliot

I ask of my soul, be still and wait without hope, for hope would be hope for the wrong thing;
Wait without love, for love would be love of the wrong thing;
There is yet faith, but the faith and the love are all in the waiting.
Wait without thought, for I am not ready for thought:

So the darkness shall become the light, and the stillness dancing.

And Or

Be still and know that I am G_d
Be still and know that I am
Be still and know
Be still
Be

Sometimes it helps… In the time of waiting and stillness I float. The tide takes me where it will, but I participate, to tired to fight, I notice that calmly moving a little this way or that, I have influence on the direction…

• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Peter.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Peter.

Hi Murtaza

I’m sorry to hear that your struggling. I relate to the crushing loneliness that comes through your posts.

I didn’t think your posts were pointless and want to thank you for challenging me it attempting to communicate my thoughts and experiences.

Their is a time for all things including a time to be still and stopping the seeking of answers and ‘fixing’ oneself. My personal experience of such a time was to be intentional about it. If I was going to take time away from seeking solutions I also need to stop asking the questions and telling myself my stories.

Friends would tell me that I needed to fill the space ‘stopping’ created with positive thinking which ticked me off. If I was able to do that I would have been doing that!!!  The pressure to force myself into  this mode of being only amplified the negative story I was telling myself. So I told them thanks but that I would avoid filling the space with any story. I would stop telling myself my stories without replacing them.  If I notice I was in my head and repeating a story I’d stop, take a breath and get back to what I was doing in the the moment.  No story, no questions, no answers… and surprisingly I found I could do that some of the time…. then more of the time….

Like you I think (sorry if I’m wrong) I’m a head person. Meaning I live most of my life in my head, watching, evaluating, gathering information, and then when I’m sure I tell my self I’ll engage… only there is never enough information and resources to be sure…  and when I do manage to engage I often late and miss the opportunity.  I’ve accepted that it will always be my prime strategy for ‘keeping safe’ but I’m better at noticing when it gets in the way. The strategy is my gift and the thing I must overcome.

Be well and kind to yourself.