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PeterParticipant
Thanks Brandy that was nicely put.
PeterParticipantThe first time I heard the notion of centering prayer it was in connection to the notion of contemplation leaving me to wonder what the difference was between Meditation, Contemplation, Prayer – Centering prayer.
I haven’t found clear answers however my thoughts are that the general difference between meditation and contemplation is that meditation is a emptying (decent) that can creates space for the state of contemplation which isn’t so much as about thinking and words but a non-dual listening – Which is similar to a state centering prayer leads to which is a prayer that we don’t make happen, No intention other then having eyes to see and ears to hear, no ego or beseeching...) but a happening resting in and arising from stillness/silence.
My experience has been that centering prayer often transitioned to contemplation which transitioned to meditation then back to contemplation and centering. The Common thread being a emptying and ungrounding which paradoxically lead to experience of being centered.
A Zen master might say nothing was attained. Not that the experience was not experienced only that the experience was is always present… for those with eyes to see and ears to hear… put another way we return home to see it for the first time, and that we work for that which no work is required, nothing is attained because each of us have always had and are it.
But another way, Einstein noted that the same level of consciousness that notices a problem won’t be the same level of consciousness that solves it. The tenancy is to try to ascend our way out of the problem by thinking our way into a new level of consciousness, to use the mind to grasp the mind, the eye to see the eye. However new levels of consciousness can not arise from ascending but only from first descending of which meditation, contemplation and centering prayer are aids.
In the end language is problematic. I appreciate the space to wonder. 🙂
PeterParticipantHi Lisa
Its clear your hurting, please know that you have been heard.
I’d like to comment on your last post
It doesn’t matter how hard I work. It doesn’t matter how much I care. It doesn’t matter how much time I devote to something. I will never be successful if the people around me do not want to see success.
That reads like your measurement of success is being determined by others? Which gives these others allot of power over you, power that is not thier to have or maybe even not want. (If I’m being honest when I give away my power to others it usually in a subconscious attempt to exert power over them, to get them to like and approve of me which is also a power game.) Either way the task would be to take your power back. I know easier said then done. A first step may be to tell us what does success look like to you, what would it feel like. Is their any connection to your vision of success to how you view others viewing you?
Movement creates Life, Stillness creates Love, to be Still, yet still Moving is everything. – Do Hyun Choe
I like that play on words, Still yet still Moving. Life ups and downs surrounded and supported by a calm compassionate Love, a love that includes self love. That is the sound of AUM…
“Aum” is a word that, what can I say, represents to our ears that sound of the energy of the universe, of which all things are manifestations. And “Aum”, it’s a wonderful word, it’s written A-U-M. You start in the back of the mouth, Ah, and then, Ooh, you fill the mouth, and M-m-m, closes it, the mouth. And when you have pronounced this properly, all vowel sounds are in that pronunciation: “Aum”. And consonants are regarded simply as interruptions of “Aum”, and all words are thus fragments of “Aum”, as all images are fragments of the form of forms, of which all things are just reflections. And so “Aum” is a symbol, a symbolic sound, that puts you in touch with that throbbing being that is the universe.
And when you hear some of these Tibetan monks that are over here from the Rgyud Stod monastery outside of Lhasa, when they sing the “Aum,” you know what it means, all right That’s the zoom of being in the world. And to be in touch with that and to get the sense of that, that is the peak experience of all. “Ah-ooh-mm.” The birth, the coming into being, and the solution to the cycle of that. And it’s just called the four-element syllable. What is the fourth element? “Ah-ooh-mm,” and the silence (stillness) out of which it comes, back into which it goes, and which underlies it.
Now, my life is the “Ah-ooh-mm,” but there is a silence (stillness) that underlies it, and that is what we would call the immortal. This is the mortal, and that’s the immortal, and there wouldn’t be this if there weren’t that. — Joseph Campbell
If you want to hear AUM, just cover your ears and you’ll hear it. Of course, what you are hearing is the blood in the capillaries, but it’s AUM: Ah – waking consciousness; ou – dream consciousness; and then, mmm – the realm of deep, dreamless sleep.
AUM is the sound of the radiance of G_d (transcendence).
The point is that this AUM heard in silence informs all things. All things are manifestations of it. Now you are inward turned.The secret to having a spiritual life as you move in the world is to hear the AUM in all things all the time. If you do, everything is transformed. You no longer have to go anywhere to find your fulfillment and achievement and the treasure you seek. It is here. It is everywhere. (You are It, as am I) — Joseph Campbell
Movement is Time creating Life – AUM – immerging from and returning to Stillness which is eternity creating Love, supporting Life – AUM
PeterParticipantNeedless to say our on again, off again history gives me hope that one day she will let me back into her life
Having been were you are I can’t help but wonder if at some level we invite the experience of being abused. Is that karma… as in our actions create results and we ought not be surprised when they do.
Zen Buddhism suggests that suffering arises when we want things to be other than how they are and that where there is hope, there is fear and where there is fear there is hope. Two sides of the same coin where the two can’t be separated from each other. Non duality has us imagine that by naming a pair of opposites a coin we have solved the problem of duality… only we can’t help ourselves from picking the coin up, flipping it into the air and calling heads OR tails and so we suffer. We hope to escape fear and wonder why fear keeps chasing us.
The Way suggests that freedom from fear is to become hopeless, which goes against almost every thing we have been taught. You got to have hope… right? OR maybe, what if, Liberated from hope and fear, we are free to discover clarity and energy in the present moment.
If we think about it our notion of hope almost always involves looking backwards to some unwanted past we wish to change or to some imagined future where where we can get Life to work out as we would have it be (read ego/control). Keeping us stuck flipping coins, this time for sure, in only, maybe, what if, should of, could of.. so we suffer.
What would your contact with your friend look like without the baggage of the hope/fear coin?
In Zen the notion of hopelessness is not the same notion as despair. That’s something we have been taught to believe, something I’ve bought into, only now I’m not so sure. Giving up the hope/fear coin is about learning to sit in, leaning into impermanence, groundlessness and uncertainty, which is actually the reality of everyone moment. Without the coin, being in that moment as is, eyes open.
Without mistaking the notion of ‘hopelessness’ with not having intentions or goals, Imagine yourself not feeling as if you must hope something… what a wonderful freeing feeling!
Imagine not living in this limbo of hope/fear and being honest with your friend. The history suggests your not going to be happy with the answer but at least you will know one why or the other. If you decide that that is not a risk your willing to take, fearing that you might lose what you have, then enjoy what you have as it is without the need for the hope/fear coin. You suffer either way however at least it would be a honest suffering.
Reading over the last I suspect I have been advising myself with regards to my own situation.. a exercise which I find oddly cathartic…. If I come off harsh I apologize.
PeterParticipantMy story is a sad one of half a lifetime that has been ruined by my inability to deal with my situation.
It may be more accurate to say that you are dealing with your situation only not achieving the desired results… though you are likely achieving the subconscious ones. Maybe its semantics but in my opinion how we tell our story is important. In the end its the story we live in not the moment of life as it is, which is a reason we suffer.
I like how Richard Wagamese put it: “Life is hard. There are challenges. There are difficulties. There is pain. As a younger man, I sought to avoid pain and difficulty and only caused myself more of the same. These days, I choose to face life head-on — and I have become a comet. I arc across the sky of my life, the hard times are the friction that shaves off the worn and tired bits. The more I travel head-on, the more I am shaped, and the things that no longer work or are unnecessary drop away.
It’s a good way to travel. I believe eventually I will wear away all resistance, until all that’s left of me is light.”I’ve been looking into the Zen notion of non-duality and spontaneity and what that means with regards to facing life head on, as it is. Uncertainty, doubt, fear, suffering these are things when faced the impulse is to back or even run away. The Way suggestion is to lean in. Funny its the same advice you get in the military when you find yourself ambushed, turn into the ambush and press into it.
Funny / Sad we suffer more from the stories we tell then from the actually happening. If true, a task on the path is to master ones stories, vice letting the stories master you. Either way you will suffer… still depending on the path you just might end up with better stories. Keep an eye out for victim and villain stories, thier often a sign of justifications, projections, shadow…. all the things we do in order to suffer in place and stay stuck.
Just as it is often the case that we are sad because we are sad, we suffer because we are suffering. Begs the question if its possible we suffer more form the notion of suffering then from the event where we were disappointment by a desire not turning out as we hoped and or willed it might.
PeterParticipantI wasn’t offended. I tend to ‘step in it’ with relationship topics 🙂
The way you expressed yourself in the last post was very elegant
PeterParticipantI’ll be honest to saying I’m not sure how to respond. I hear you, your pain and frustration of not being heard or seen by your family as you need and as a parent that has done thier best deserve.
I don’t wish to be cruel, and I am not saying your wrong to feel entitled or desire for respect and consideration. I’m saying, with regards to emotional mastery, the idea of entitlement and desire, (this is a tiny buddha site), is creating much of the suffering that your experiencing. In that regard your decision to limit interactions may be the most loving for all involved. Yet I suspect that that decision is also a source of suffering. It really depends on which suffering you accept and the best path to get you were you want to be as you move through it. I’m hoping you move though it vice getting stuck in it.
I don’t feel that what you need is justification for your feelings or experience which can only harden hearts. I’m hoping you find ways to move though the suffering, feel what your feeling instead of getting stuck.
I have to apologize I don’t usually engage in relationship posts and will now bow out.
I wish you peace.
PeterParticipantHi Jill
Healthy boundaries are important, establishing them difficult, especially as it comes to family. So easy to trigger the “ghosts” of the past and doing so reacting to the past instead of the present moment and the relationship we really desire to have with those we love. We all have a tendency to focus on the worst memories and overlooking the more positive ones.
The task of removing the past from being in the present requires creating a safe space for honest communication. Here the art of detachment, meditation and contemplation can help, even then its not easy. The best advice on preparing to enter into such dialog I’ve come across was a book by Kerry Patterson – Crucial Conversations Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High.
That said there are times when Love requires that relationships end. (relationships never end even if people decide not to meet up again so the word ‘end’ may not be the correct word).
I intentionally use the words the “Love requires”, meaning that the decision to end a relationship is for the good and growth of all involved and and genuine concern of all involved. In Crucial Conversations before dialog begins all parties involved must first ‘master thier stories’. I believe the same is required in determining if ones actions are coming from a place of love or from a the intention to punish and be right.
It seems most of the stories we tell ourselves, as they involve troubled relationships, tend to fall into two categories – victim and villain stories – which more likely then not trigger the ghosts and end dialog/relationship. I mention it only to suggest that if were telling victim and villain stories were probably not acting from a place of love but to punish, ourselves and others. And being right, we love to be right, nothing better then being righteously right. (no saying your doing that, that very much is a trap of which I am well versed.)
I’ll be candid even knowing the above I’ve failed more times then succeeding in healing troubled relationships and that for the good (growth) of all involved have had a relationships end or limited. Surprisingly it has been in the pain of a ending relationships that I have learned and grown to do and be better. That growth sometimes lead to reconciliation but not always. That is the way of Life.
I wasn’t sure what you meant when you asked for support and I hope I have not crossed a line. I am not suggesting you are not right in feeling what your feeling or that your decision to limit contact isn’t for the best for all involved. My hope for you is that by accessing to your inner truth and stillness you find peace with your decisions. In your stillness you will know.
March 22, 2023 at 1:56 pm in reply to: Book Suggestion Abt Peace/Serenity/Staying Positive/Gratitude/Manifesting #416612PeterParticipantI enjoy Richard Wagamese – Embers, One Ojibway’s Meditations
Short little meditations on life I found helpful in centering and contemplation.
Life is Sometimes hard. There are challenges. There are difficulties. There is pain. As a younger man, I sought to avoid pain and difficulty and only caused myself more of the same. these days, I choose to face life head-on —
and I have become a comet. I arc across the sky of my life, the hard times are the friction that shaves off the worn and tired bits. The more I travel head-on, the more I am shaped, and the things that no longer work or are unnecessary drop away.
It’s a good way to travel. I believe eventually I will wear away all resistance, until all that’s left of me is light.This meditation I came across when I was missing my Mother
Me: I miss my mother sometimes. Really bad.
Old Woman: Maybe try missing her really well.
Me: How do I do that?
Old Woman: See that sunrise? See how beautiful the colours are? How clar and clean the air feels? How good it fels inside of you?
Me; Yes. It’s wonderful.
Old Woman: She lives in that. So maybe just say, ‘Thanks, Mom” when you see and feel things like that.
***
I miss my mother really well now. – Richard WagameseMarch 22, 2023 at 9:19 am in reply to: How to fix life when I have messed up multiple aspects of it? #416593PeterParticipantI feel like a sad pathetic person and am not looking for comforting words but for some direction on how to go about fixing my life by fixing my day-to-day
I think you answered your own question with the suggestion of taking things day to day, perhaps focusing on steps you can accomplish day by day.
I personally don’t like the word fix in this context, not sure why…. (thinking out loud) much of our suffering comes from wishing things were other then they were, if only this, should of this… as if such thinking could change our past experiences and changing the past fix our future. The source of our If only’s, and should of’s tend to be about ego and control , a desire or even demand that life be as we deem it should to be other then as it is. To fix things within that context would likely continue trying to control life as we would will it to be vice engage in life as it is in the moment where we actually have influence to change, inevitably leading to more suffering and stuckness.
We can’t fix the past or the future, we can however learn and learning better do better. A change in perspective that is more growth orientated then a ‘fixed’ a one. My feeling is that from such a perspective one is more likely be kinder to one self and avoid such labeling as pathetic. Such labeling being unhelpful in the day-to-day approach to change. More of a flow with life then trying push against it.
Not sure if thier was any advice in that, just thoughts. The following from Auden cam to mind as I was thinking out loud. To move forward we have to let our illusion die, which isn’t saying that we don’t feel what were feeling about our past and such. Only that we don’t hold on to them as if they are the reality of the present. Effectively creating the things we fear
“We would rather be ruined than changed
We would rather die in our dread
Than climb the cross of the moment
And let our illusions die.” ― W H AudenPeterParticipantThanks for your story and reminding me/us Lost1Flow that if we can create even just a small space to flow that surprises can happen.
I wish you well as you re-engage with your flow. 🙂
Stillness is what creates love,
Movement is what creates life,
To be still, Yet still moving
– That is everything! – Do Hyun ChoeMovement is time, stillness is eternity. Realizing the relationship of the temporal moment to the eternal—not moment, but forever—is the sense of life. Realizing how this moment in your life is actually a moment of eternity. (Love) – Joseph Campbell
PeterParticipantGood question Lost One Flow
Came across a book when I was much younger titled ‘Surprised by Joy’. I’ve always liked that title. It hasn’t been my experience that one can ‘find’ joy, seek it out as if it was a something that you could hold onto. My experience of it is that its a something that happens and surprises, the surprise part of the experience of joy.
This morning I was at a yoga class. Everyone moving from flow to flow of the routine similar to the other mornings. Anyway during the class I catch a glimpse in the mirror of everyone bending and twisting, and could help but wonder of the absurdity of it… but then also a kind of beauty of everyone showing up, struggling through, sometimes if just a moment flowing through. In that absurdity of the moment I was surprised by joy.
Each of us it turns out have questioned the sanity of getting up at that early hour, especially those days when we arn’t feeling our best and if asked what is the point couldn’t answer. But you show up, engage with the moment, with life as it is, in all its routine absurd struggle and sometimes surprised by the wonder of it and in the wonder joy?
Like a yoga class life will find you twisted up in routine of work and family obligations.. but maybe if one creates the space for it, will glance in the mirror and noting the absurdity of all our striving also see the beauty and be surprised by joy.
I wonder Lost1Flow if the answer to your question is in your avatar name – Create some space within and find the flow.
PeterParticipantRegret, like all emotions when grasped onto blocks flow, traps one in a imagined past of ‘should of’ giving birth in the same moment a mourned for future that cannot be of ‘if only’.
True regret can point one to different paths in the present and if skillful then released, but my experience and observations is that regret is the emotion we tend to hold onto more then the others. I wonder if thier isn’t a perverse pleasure of holding on to our disappointments and failures so tightly while discounting out gifts so easily.
The feelings that hurt most, the emotions that sting most, are those that are absurd – The longing for impossible things, precisely because they are impossible; nostalgia for what never was; the desire for what could have been; regret over not being someone else; dissatisfaction with the world’s existence. All these half-tones of the soul’s consciousness create in us a painful landscape, an eternal sunset of what we are.― Fernando Pessoa
How does one stop? By stopping. I suspect that stopping is so easily difficult is that we attach our emotions and experience to time.
“We are living in a culture entirely hypnotized by the illusion of time, in which the so-called present moment is felt as nothing but an infinitesimal hairline between an all-powerfully causative past and an absorbingly important future. We have no present. Our consciousness is almost completely preoccupied with memory and expectation. We do not realize that there never was, is, nor will be any other experience than present experience. We are therefore out of touch with reality. We confuse the world as talked about, described, and measured with the world which actually is. We are sick with a fascination for the useful tools of names and numbers, of symbols, signs, conceptions and ideas…. – J Campbell
How does one stop? Stop naming and break the dam that hinders flow. We stop by flowing – a ironic paradox .
Eventually something you love is going to be taken away. And then you will fall to the floor crying. And then, however much later, it is finally happening to you: you’re falling to the floor crying thinking, “I am falling to the floor crying,” but there’s an element of the ridiculous to it, even worse, while you’re on the floor crying you look at the place where the wall meets the floor and you realize you didn’t paint it very well. ― Richard Siken
Cry until you laugh… I recognize that person on the floor… We are such wonderous, messy absurd beings.
PeterParticipantCame across the following today from Power of Myth
“You must have a room, or a certain hour a day or so, where you do not know what was in the newspapers that morning, you don’t know who your friends are, you don’t know what you owe to anybody, you don’t know what anybody owes to you—but a place where you can simply experience and bring forth what you are and what you might be. This is the place of creative incubation. And first you may find that nothing’s happening there. But if you have a sacred place and use it and take advantage of it, something will happen.”
This corresponds to my experience – that creating just a little space each day in which you can empty oneself of self does bring about change
PeterParticipantHi Sprteflower – I like that username – what led you chose that, and did you intentionally leave out the i – sprite – a small being, human in form, playful and having magical powers? (I wonder if its not time to embrace a little of the sprite in only to see what ‘powers’ such play might revel?)
We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more from imagination than from reality. – Seneca
Thanks for sharing your story.
Your post reminded me of something I read long ago
If you have a nagging feeling that you do no measure up to the person you imagine you ought to be, the generic label for what you feel i shame. We have shame when we persistently feel that we are not acceptable, maybe unworthy, and are less than the good person we are supposed to be. Shame is a vague undefined heaviness that presses on our spirit, dampens our gratitude for the goodness of life, and slackens the free flow of joy. Shame is a primal feeling, the kind that seeps into and discolors all our other feelings, primarily about ourselves but about almost everyone and everything else in our life as well.
Shame can get us in touch with the most beautiful part of ourselves, a warning we that we are becoming a person we do not want to be, But shame is often an unhealthy feeling of un-worth that is distorted, exaggerated, and utterly out of touch with our reality. Most of us carry both kinds of shame – shame we deserve and shame we don’t deserve. – L B Smedes
Reading through your post I suspect the shame your experienced is undeserved yet in holding on to this undeserved shame it is also a warning that it is this holding onto this undeserved shame that is leading you into being the person you do not want to be. The irony of being caught in a loop of being ashamed about being ashamed, trap I can relate to.
You mention – My path has been successful from the outside – suggesting that you have overcome the objective experiences of your past, a indication that you will continue to do so and to which you should give your self more credit. It seems it is the inner stories you are telling yourself that you can’t get past. In other words its possible that its language that is keeping you stuck in undeserved shame.
A meditation practice I like is creating space and stillness as I remind myself that I am not my thoughts, there are thoughts, I am not my memories, their are memories, I am not my emotions, thier are emotions, I am not my past, the past has past, I am not the words I use to tell my stories, there are words. The map is not the territory, and words are not the things they can only point to, there is no requirement that I hold on the them.
<p lang=”en-US”>“You likely have parts of your own history you’d rather forget, same as I do. But when I actually wrote these things down, when I got up close and personal with them—yes, there was pain, and yes, there was hurt—by giving them a name, I stripped them of their power. And what I learned is that lies (undeserved shame) will always be worth fighting against. Because what you’re left fighting for is the truth, and that is the most freeing thing in the world.”
― Joanna Gaines, The Stories We Tell: Every Piece of Your Story Matters</p> -
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