Dear Paradoxy,

She is not gaslighting because she did care for me regarding the physical aspect but failed in the emotional and mental aspect.

Well, she said she always noticed when you felt upset:

My mom… started lecturing me that I should be more caring and stuff and how she always cared about me whenever I looked upset.

Upset is not the same as feeling tired, sleep deprived, or undernourished:

she was caring regarding the physical aspect. She noticed when I was tired, she noticed when I was sleep deprived, she saw how weak I looked from days I went without eating to focus on studying while I was in college,

Since she is claiming she would notice your upset – which is not a physical, but an emotional  state – she is indeed gaslighting you. Besides, she told you that you humiliated them when she learned about your suicide attempt. That’s how emotionally “supportive” and “tuned in” she was.

I don’t blame her though but the audacity to say that she noticed whenever I was unwell is just pissing me off.

Well, sure, you don’t blame them for anything. Even if they’ve hurt you. And they’ve hurt you in two ways: first, when they didn’t notice anything beyond your physical health, and second, when they claimed they cared for you, even if they didn’t care about your emotional health one bit. So, first they’ve hurt you, then they claimed they didn’t. That’s a definition of gaslighting.

My father also sucks up his own problems.

So basically, in their eyes, nothing of my issues are worth me complaining about.

Sure, because in their eyes, only physical issues and illnesses are worth complaining about. And since you are still young and healthy, why indeed would you complain about a single thing? You must be an idiot if you do (says your father).

Yes I see that but I also realized that my parents are right about me being an idiot.

First, you are not an idiot for sometimes being absent-minded, or forgetting something, or making a mistake. You are simply human who is making mistakes, like other humans. But when they raise you with a belief that you are an idiot, that that’s your identity, i.e. that something is fundamentally wrong with you – that’s what’s horribly damaging. And they raised you like that.

That’s what you believe about yourself: that something is fundamentally wrong with you. And that’s what all children (and later adults) who were emotionally abused believe about themselves. Until they start healing and reverting those damaging core beliefs.

So technically my parents were right about me being an idiot. So now what? Can’t really say that my parents are wrong about me now….

You are not an idiot –  not now, not before. You make mistakes, like we all do. But you, Paradoxy, don’t want to accept it: you fell for their false view of you: that you are an idiot. That you are not good enough. You fell for that false identity. In other words, you accepted a lie.

Yesterday I came across these verses, which I think describe very well what happened to you (and to me too, until I’ve started healing):

Don’t break a bird’s wings and then tell it to fly.

Don’t break a heart and then tell it to love.

Don’t break a soul and then tell it to be happy.

Author: Najwa Zebian, from her book “Mind Platter”

Dear Paradoxy,

My mom was infuriated by me “not caring” and started lecturing me that I should be more caring and stuff and how she always cared about me whenever I looked upset. BULLSHIT. Forgive my language but she probably asked once or twice or thrice at most, and that too after I started Med. Nobody cared during all those years that I suffered. Nobody noticed the pain I was going through when I found out about my ex cheating on me, and now she tries to say she always noticed whenever I was unhappy and that she cared about how I felt?

So your mother is gaslighting you too: telling you that she would always ask how you are and would notice if something is troubling you. Whereas you know it’s not true, and besides, if you were honest with her (or your father), they would use it against you and start criticizing you:

if I open my mouth once, they will force me to open up about my issues and then go right back to criticizing me and etc.

I know about that, btw, because my own mother used to do that: if I would complain about something, being emotionally vulnerable with her, she would use it against me and start blaming and criticizing me. So after a while I learned to never share my troubles with her, because there will be a backlash. I never felt I could confide in her.

So anyway, your mother was never too caring or empathic, quite the contrary, but now she is claiming that she was. Which is gaslighting. And she is blaming you for not showing more compassion for your father, when you know how that went in the past:

me caring for him might actually end up biting me back in the form of more criticism or something.

When you interact with your parents, you are in a self-protective mode, because whenever you open up, it might cause trouble and you might get blamed. You behave like that because you are forced to: years of experience with them have taught you to express your troubles only minimally, or else you’ll get in an even bigger trouble. Also, your father taught you that when you have an issue, to suck it up and be a man. So he wasn’t really welcoming vulnerability. On the contrary.

And so now, when he is supposedly weak, you are expected to show care and concern? When you were punished, or perhaps even ridiculed, for expressing care and concern in the past.

So yeah… this is how our parents shape us: first they condition us to live in a self-protective mode, not daring to express our true self. And when that self-protective persona proves to be faulty and inadequate, they blame us for it.

I am sorry for the way I am…..

You were shaped to be that way… by your parents’ conditioning. I hope you can start seeing that?

Dear Lily Margarette,

I am sorry that you are still suffering and feeling trapped in your situation. However, I am happy to hear that you did find a job:

He now wants the weekend after…when I’m working and I need him to look after the kids.

Because the last time you wrote, you felt terrified of going out to work again, after having been a stay-at-home mom for more than 10 years. So congratulations on that! Is it a part-time or a full-time job? How are you satisfied with it?

Unfortunately, it seems your husband does have narcissistic tendencies, and such people have very little chance of changing. The fact that therapy didn’t help at all proves it:

He recently went to therapy on his own, and he’s been ten times worse. It’s like his ego has inflated.

So therapy only strengthened his ego. That’s what happens a lot when a narcissist – who is typically charming and very convincing – goes to an inexperienced therapist. The therapist gets charmed away too! And they tend to believe the narcissist, i.e. the abuser, not the victim.

How do I handle this? Please don’t suggest couples therapy

Yeah, definitely couple’s therapy wouldn’t make sense, first because he might equally charm away the therapist. And secondly, if he believes there is no problem with him but tends to blame you (or the children) – then therapy makes no sense, because he doesn’t want to change, neither does he see the need to change.

I think the only long-term solution, unfortunately, would be to separate from him. But I know that with 3 underage children, it might seem overwhelming.

But you don’t need to do it all at once. You might even wait till your children are older, while in the meanwhile you are slowly preparing to stand on your own two feet again. It seems you already made the first step: you found a job. So you have broken through that barrier that you felt 2 years ago. Which is amazing!

How is your self-confidence at this point? Do you think you would be able to separate from your husband and organize a separate life from him, or it still seems very scary?

In terms of day-to-day life, try not to expect too much from him. For example, don’t count that he’d be there for all of the school appointments. With his character, there is a high chance that he “forgets” or double books things or just follows his own needs and wants, without considering you and the children. So, try to accept (temporarily, of course) that this is his character and don’t expect too much from him. Don’t be disappointed if he lets you down.

But also, you can put your foot down and demand that he be there for certain occasions, when you absolutely want him there, or when it would be very impractical to organize child care etc. or example. Such might be e.g. your daughter’s religious presentation, or the weekend when you need to work and you don’t have anybody to take care of the kids.

He might throw temper tantrums and blame you for ruining his outing with his buddies, but you can remain cool about it, because you know it’s not your fault and that him being there on those occasions is an absolute must. So have him do what he promised, even if he is fuming about it and “hates” you for it.

So try to be less emotional and more pragmatical about it: let go if it’s not a big deal, and insist that he keeps his promise if it is a big deal and him bailing out would cause problems. Have those boundaries clear in your mind: what you can and what you absolutely don’t want to tolerate. And play according to those rules (your own rules).

I know it hurts to have a husband like that, and to have to treat him like an unruly child. But if you accept that this is who he is and stop hoping for something different, then perhaps you can proceed to really separate from him, slowly but surely. Methodically. Strategically. By looking for the best exit strategy – for you and your children.

What do you think?

Hey SereneWolf,

Although sometimes I think I should start taking caffeine for a better focus at during worktime. In the morning time I always look so sleepy no matter how many hours I have slept.

If you want a wake-up effect, then I guess Latte would be a poor choice, at least for me it is, because all that milk puts me to sleep rather than waking me up 🙂 That’s why I said, Latte is comfort food for me 😀

Yes I agree with you.. and it’s same like my father, my father thought even words of encouragement spoils the kids. Then hugs and kisses are far away lol

Yeah, same with my mother. No words of encouragement, no praise – that too spoils the kid. It was a kind of a Spartan upbringing…

And to be honest it’s quite common here not just for my father. But it’s surprising for me I though mother figures are mostly affectionate but I guess not in your case.

Well, she didn’t have an affectionate mother herself, so she didn’t really experience love and affection. But the saddest part is that she thought highly of her mother and never allowed any criticism of her. Even though her mother was a very critical, strict and cold parent.

My mother even blamed herself for not being a good enough daughter… so there was never even a glimmer of awareness about how bad effect her mother had on her. And unfortunately, due to that lack of awareness, she never worked on her own healing and only transferred her trauma on to me (which is how generational trauma happens).

it’s changing though (almost like since covid I think) My father would at least put his hand on my forehand when I’m working on my laptop and when I ask what he’s doing that for he’s like..To check if you got a headache or not haha

Hahaha… that’s quite a unique way to express affection. I thought he was checking whether you have fever or not 🙂 But if you feel he wants to be closer to you nowadays, but only knows how to do it in clumsy ways, well, that counts too 🙂

I’m glad you got touching type husband. You believe in 4 love languages? Because sounds like your husband’s love language is physical touch

Yeah, could be. I think Acts of service and Quality time is also what’s important to him, actually to both of us. And Words of affirmation too. Neither of us is big on gifts though, or going out to dinners and special occasions. So we more or less speak 4 love languages, and the 5th isn’t important to either of us 🙂

Yes he does appreciate me. He trust me at that level that he put his power attorney on my name. and he told me that during my lifetime I have never seen honest and humble person like you. And he did a love marriage and my aunt is also very wise lady. So he told me He’s only vulnerable with two person. One with his wife and one me. I think he’s also one of the reason I got entrepreneurial spirit.

Oh my! Your real uncle is your Uncle Iroh then!! That’s amazing! To have such a loving and caring elder – someone who appreciates you so much and trusts you – that’s such a blessing.

You should learn from him about relationships! Because you said he married out of love, to a good, smart woman. Which means it is possible, SereneWolf. He is your proof.

I just listen. I don’t try to give her solutions and when she works late after that she drinks a lot and then get all “horny drunk” then I try that she could sleep on time so she can have proper rest.

Naah I don’t think she speak up to her bosses. Because she would be texting me even while working. And watching Instagram reels while working. And she has quite a bad relationship with her parents she speaks to them only when needed.

Oh, so she’s not only smoking, but also tends to drink a lot. She has anger issues but it seems she uses alcohol to “soothe” her pain. And she likes to vent a lot and fume, but it’s only like letting out a bit of steam from a pressure cooker – she is not really working on healing her issues.

 I try that she could sleep on time so she can have proper rest.

This is similar to what you were doing in your LDR – caring about the girl’s health and that she is getting proper rest, is eating well etc. So this is the same kind of “savior” behavior with this girl too. And this girl is trouble, similar to your first LDR.

So beware of that – that you might get sucked into another savior kind of relationship, where you want to “parent” a troubled girl, who doesn’t really want to go to therapy and work on her issues. Perhaps now you would be a more compassionate and understanding parent, because you’ve worked on yourself, but nevertheless still in a parental role. And that’s not a good recipe for a relationship.

But it’s been like 5 days I haven’t even texted and neither did she

That’s good! It seems you are attracted to problematic girls, whom you want to help improve, and that’s a part of the excitement you feel about her. So be aware of that…

Hmm tbh I don’t think that was the reason. And when I’m with her I did feel that she is someone that is capable of accepting the whole me. I’m saying because the way she was talking to me and also many times she reassured me that I can have bad feelings and I can allow myself to be sad and angry in front of her. And I used to vent about things with her.

Okay, so she was able to accept you as you are, with all your good and bad sides. You didn’t need to pretend with her. And you could vent to her, and she would listen. It didn’t overwhelm her. But you see – you didn’t feel that “tension” and excitement with her that you feel now with this latest girl. And it could be because she didn’t need fixing. You even felt a little inferior to her (I remember you mentioned that).

So perhaps she was intimidating because you felt not good enough for her? And this one – the problematic girl – doesn’t feel intimidating because you feel better than her? And so you feel safe?

No judgment here – I am just asking those questions, so you could get to the bottom of the problem. Because I am seeing the same pattern as before, and perhaps now is the time to become aware of the pattern and try to break it (or rather, heal it).

Right. Totally platonic. And I did noticed that my female friends are good listeners than my male friends and kinda more empathic. So I tend to be more vulnerable with my female friends

It seems that caring, empathic girls don’t really attract you in the romantic sense – but you only stay friends with them. And then they find a guy and move on. And you are left alone. It seems like self-sabotage. A good girl, capable of emotional intimacy, isn’t attractive to you romantically. Because you are afraid of that deep vulnerability, which comes with a romantic relationship. So yeah, it all seems to be a part of the same pattern.

I’m thinking short term situationships would make me feel lighter and still have that sense of closeness with someone? Like Friend+Lover you know?

Think about it in the light of what I’ve said above. You want some closeness, but not real closeness. You want to stay on the surface. Because when you fall in love, you fall in love with problematic people, which drain you (like this latest girl has the potential to drain you). And of course, you don’t want such a relationship.

But the biggest problem is that you are afraid to fall in love with healthy people. With whom you could experience a healthy, fulfilling relationship.

and it’s also good because now I’m also capable of travelling so I’ll be changing the places frequently. … If I’d be just dating a local woman from the city that I’m staying. It’s also good for activities and time spending outside the work. So spending good time together and some sweet memories and then say see ya senorita on the next adventure…

Yeah, you want to be like a sailor, having a different woman in each port 😉 But you know it’s not the solution, SereneWolf. It’s an escape. So think about it. Your own uncle managed to have a loving, committed relationship. And he knows what love is. So… give it a thought….

Dear Paradoxy,

It doesn’t affect my decision to never return to her.

That’s good to hear.

Ok fine, I can’t argue with that. She never actively expressed it directly to me so it never came across to me.

Glad there is at least one thing you cannot argue with 😉 Yes, she expressed her disapproval indirectly, by acting in a passive aggressive way.

So I have decided to sell the laptop to her and she has started paying me back in installments.

That’s another thing I am glad to hear.

We entered the investment knowing the risks, so she didn’t force me into it. I needed a passive source of income because I can’t work when I have to handle the workload from med.

She didn’t force you into it, but you went for it because of her: because you used up all your savings to pay for her upkeep. So you needed the extra money. And she convinced you to try trading.

And yes she convinced me to invest in trading, and it partially worked. We made a profit of 600 dollars with the initial investment, but the guy we hired chose to party instead of focusing on the trading and so he lost all the money and we went right back to square one.

So it wasn’t a professional broker, but some guy she found? And he didn’t bear any responsibility for losing your money?

I definitely am not under the belief that women are dumb and need to be educated. Maybe a little dramatic and a pain in my bottom rn but not dumb.

Don’t underestimate the influence your father had on you and forming your beliefs. What he put you through was indoctrination, and it left its traces (just think of being forced to sit with the adults at 5 years old, listening to their “wisdom”,  instead of being allowed to play).

I just thought B was dumb cause of the lack of guidance she had received as well as how her decisions lacked common sense

Her decisions lacked common sense, but as I said before, many decisions, both destructive and self-destructive, don’t make sense. They are very bad decisions. And yet people do them, unfortunately.

But I understand your point. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

You are welcome. Yesterday I came across an article about gaslighting, and was amazed to see that it describes almost to the tee the tactics used by B:

Denial – The abuser denies events or experiences that the victim knows to be true, causing the victim to doubt their memory or perception.

Minimization – The abuser downplays the significance of the victim’s feelings or experiences, making them feel like their emotions are unwarranted or invalid.

Projection – The abuser attributes their behaviors or feelings to the victim, making the victim question their intentions or actions.

Blame shifting – The abuser puts the blame on the victim for the problems in the relationship or other circumstances, making the victim feel responsible for the abuser’s actions.

Withholding – The abuser withholds information, affection, or communication, leaving the victim feeling confused and anxious.

Diverting – The abuser changes the subject or distracts the victim from important issues or concerns, making it challenging to address the real problems.

False allegations – starting gossip about the victim in an effort to reduce their social credibility.

I think she used all of the above, except maybe diverting, although not sure about that.

Anyway, all these are apparently gaslighting tactics, and she used them regularly on you. No wonder you were super confused whether you should forgive her. Because she was constantly denying your reality, telling you that what she is doing is not hurtful, invalidating your feelings, telling you you are overreacting. Plus shifting the blame on you, falsely accusing you, even making false allegations about you to her female friend. And of course, withholding key information from you.

All in all, very abusive. I hope you can learn from this and heal.

Dear Paradoxy,

I won’t be able to try to convince you

Haha, this sounds like a Freudian slip on my part 🙂 Yeah, I won’t be able to convince you, probably.

I meant to say: I won’t be trying to convince you anymore. I hope I can stick to my own word 🙂

Hi SereneWolf,

Very similar to what I like in weekends. Except caffeine.

Yeah, I am still a fan of caffeine, only “diluted”, with plenty of milk. Latte is almost like comfort food for me, so yeah, there is an attachment there, which so far I don’t want to break free from 🙂

Lack of physical affection is even worse than the emotional neglect. Because it has that feeling of safety. Like I got you, don’t worry.

Yes, physical affection is very important when we’re babies, because that’s the only language we understand. And if we are caressed and played with, and soothed and held when we’re upset, that means so much for our nervous system and our basic sense of safety. And also, the basic sense of feeling loved, because physical touch means affection.

My mother didn’t like physical affection because I think it didn’t come naturally to her – because she herself felt so deprived of love and affection (due to her own childhood). So she couldn’t give what she didn’t possess… But then she rationalized it by saying that giving hugs and kisses will spoil the child, or that it’s fake, that the person giving hugs and kisses isn’t sincere and doesn’t truly love us. So she rationalized her own coldness and emotional detachment, instead of admitting that there is something missing in her…

My mother used to caress my head sometimes and my grandma as well. But I’m quite sure no physical touch from my father. Only aggression.

I have a photo with my father in his lap, when I was maybe 1 or 2 years old, where he is looking at me with great love and affection. But he wasn’t really a hugging type, and we didn’t have much emotional closeness later as I grew up. But he was never aggressive. He just didn’t protect me from my mother’s aggression, so that’s his major “crime” against me.

But because of that you think it kinda turn us into not touchy people?

Actually yes, I myself used to be rather restrained in expressing physical affection. I think one of the main reasons was that I felt empty inside, I felt like I have nothing to give. But that was before setting on my healing journey. Now I am more free, but still not super touchy-feely.

Luckily, my husband is the touching type. He likes to give me hugs and back rubs, and I enjoy it like a baby 🙂 He definitely made up for what I was missing as a child, both in terms of physical and emotional affection. So that’s been a huge blessing in my life.

Like even now I feel awkward when someone tries to hug me. Yet I do get little emotional. One of my uncle is really extrovert and I have a good relationship with him and the thing is that he always hugs me. Literally like half minute hug. Not a quick one. And that guy has a germophobia. We meet rarely but whenever we do. We talk a lot.

Aw that’s wonderful! Your uncle must really like you and appreciate you a lot. I hope you can take it in and allow your heart to open up, to receive his love. Because he seems genuine in his expression of love, and you said you don’t like people who are kind in a fake way, because they usually want something from you.

But it seems your uncle is an example of someone who genuinely cares about you, so perhaps next time he gives you a hug, try to really receive his love and open your heart? (if you haven’t already)

Hmm We talk just about similar things. She complins about work. We both are into cats so we talk about cats a lot too. Other than that just flirting here and there.

When she complains about work, what do you do?

Ohh I haven’t looked from that POV. But I don’t think so, I don’t want to mimic something like that. Specially not getting angry over small things. Because it takes a lot to make me angry. I already have a calm image even for myself.

Okay, so she is someone who gets angry over small things? And she freely expresses that anger? While you get angry only over big things? But even then, you suppress your anger and you don’t say anything to the person who is mistreating you or otherwise doing something you find unacceptable. This is what you said about the incident when your nephew and other kindergarten kids went to the doctor:

I got so much angry but I didn’t want to disrespect a woman inside a hospital there so I controlled myself and stayed calm.

I don’t raise my voice lot of times when I should, and then get angry after that.

You already know how much of my anger is just buried.

It’s okay that you didn’t make a scene there and exploded in uncontrolled anger. However, you also say you don’t raise your voice when you should, and then you get angry afterwards. Which would mean you don’t dare to stand up for yourself in the moment and set boundaries, or speak for yourself.

Btw, is she (your new love interest) the kind of person who speaks up for herself when needed, or she only vents to you, but doesn’t dare to e.g. speak to her bosses?

If I remember well, your previous girlfriend (the doctor) praised you for being so calm and composed. But that was likely only a persona, because your anger is deeply buried. And maybe that’s why you didn’t like her, because you didn’t allow yourself to be authentic with her (and by being authentic, I mean expressing your anger too). So perhaps you felt that she likes your persona (the part which you were comfortable showing), but not the real you?

it happened before with one of my other friends too. We used to talk a lot and share a lot of things and then She got into relationship and then they decided to move to Canada together. Now we talk rarely. And it’s not just talking but I think somewhere in between I have to learn to accept that people come and go.

One thing I am hearing is that good friends leave when they find a partner. You had a certain closeness with her, a certain emotional intimacy, but I guess neither of you were interested in a romantic relationship? And then you lost that closeness once she found a boyfriend and moved away, right?

And with this recent female friend, she found a boyfriend and started talking about him enthusiastically, and you don’t like it:

since yesterday I don’t like to talk to one of my friends who’s got into new relationship. Because she always be talking about how good and nice he is. I know as a friend I should be supportive but yeah I’m just not in the right mindset.

Perhaps you are feeling a sense of loss of that deeper bond that you used to have – which always disappears when your female friend gets into a relationship? And also, there seems to be a longing for something you don’t have:

it just feel weirdly painful when I hear like “Ohh my bf made a playlist for me”. “Ohh he surprised me with flowers” It reminds me of myself when I was in relationship

Perhaps when they tell you these things, you get reminded of the good times in your own romantic relationships – good times which lasted for only a short while, and only in the beginning. But then the anger, upset and anxiety would set in (at least it was like that with your LDR, with whom you stayed for almost 3 years, if I remember well?). So there seems to be a longing for a relationship, but also fear because it never turned out well.

Okay so I think we should discuss about this in depth. According my situation, Because again I just tend to think rationally instead of emotionally,

I know I don’t want a superficial relationship. But because I don’t feel ready what if I start with something like situationship first instead of go all in serious romantic relationship and overwhelm myself?

Yes, you don’t want a superficial relationship, but you are afraid of a deep relationship. Of deep attachment and vulnerability. Because that might hurt you. You have some false beliefs about a romantic relationship, e.g. expecting perfection from both yourself and your partner, expecting the relationship to be hard work etc. We talked about it previously. So because of these false beliefs and your own fear, you make relationship to appear super scary. And of course, you don’t want it.

You want something “light”, as opposed to “hard”, which you believe a committed relationship is. But “light” can only work with someone who doesn’t want to be committed (i.e. someone with intimacy issues, like you), or someone who is hoping to change you, like your ex did. She was hoping that you would get madly in love with her and won’t be able to live without her – even though you told her you have attachment issues. But she was hoping you would change for her.

Anyway, “light” relationship isn’t the real solution. It’s an escape from fear. And fear is lying to you that a loving, committed relationship is hard work and involves a lot of sacrifices.

Maybe it would help if you wrote down everything you believe about a loving, committed relationship and what it involves. Perhaps it would shed some light on the various (false) assumptions you have around it?