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Dear Peter,
it was just my opinion, based on the way you’re expressing yourself here, on this forum. I don’t know anything about you and your life. You and only you know that. You know if you’re happy and fulfilled, or there are areas that bother you. If, as you say, you experienced lack of emotional nurturance and intimacy with your parents – and this wound hasn’t been healed – you would likely have issues in your adult relationships too. If you don’t experience guilt and disappointment any more, and you have satisfactory, fulfilling relationships – I am happy for you!
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
My 12 year old self would not have been able to understand that or articulate that tension of being disappointed and hurt by those that cared for him and suspecting he was also disappointing and hurting them.
So yes there was guilt and the dread of not being enough.
The child always blames themselves if they don’t receive love and appreciation from their parents. The child feels unlovable, and not being good enough. That’s the first wound and the first, unconscious conclusion that the child makes about themselves: “I am not good enough, something’s wrong with me.” Then later, as we’re getting a little older, we start blaming our parents for not giving us what we need. That’s why since you teens, it appears you were blaming both yourself and them: “Its hard to separate, this failing others and others failing us.”
That this is a realty of all relationships would not have been understood. My parents were wonderful providers for my physicals needs however we struggled with communicating and expressing our emotional needs. Not uncommon for many families.
Yes indeed. Quite a few of us on this forum have a similar experience of having been given everything materially, but the emotional part was lacking. Your parents weren’t worse than others, they were doing the best they could. And yet, what I am saying, is that each child has certain emotional needs, which if not met, cause problems in our adult life. It doesn’t mean we should keep blaming our parents for having been deprived, but it does mean we need to heal those emotional wounds, if we want to have a happy and fulfilling life.
I’m not sure why you assume the experiences hasn’t been processed?
Well, if you want my honest answer, it’s because of the way you express yourself. You’re expressing yourself in philosophical, lofty terms, which are sometimes hard to follow. I’ve checked your two threads from 4 years ago, and they sounded much more down to earth and easier to follow. At that time you felt disillusioned about people’s ability to change. But you sounded more present, expressing your honest resignation, or disappointment. Since then, it appears you’ve become more philosophical and “esoteric”, and it’s usually a sign of going into the intellect to try to explain away one’s problems and soothe the pain. I believe that the pain is still there, but now you’re trying to rationalize it. But this is just my observation, it doesn’t mean I am right.
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
I am sorry that both your parents passed away. What I am reading from your words is that you felt guilty for disappointing them (“The inevitable experience of being disappointed but more so the fear of disappointing”, and “honor them including the disappointments and hurt we gave each other”).
It appears you couldn’t let go of the feeling of guilt for them “carrying you”, but then with the help of therapy, you managed to let go. Am I understanding this right? Could you talk a bit more about your guilt for not “carrying them” – is it that you didn’t help them enough, you weren’t there for them when they needed you?
This feeling of guilt sounds like the central theme for you. You say the disappointments were mutual, and that you were all “idiots”, even though you – both you and your parents – tried your best to be “reasonable good person to those we cared about”.
So they tried their best, and you tried too, but it didn’t work. Although you understand it and have forgiven yourself and them somewhat, the injury has nevertheless happened and needs to be processed. That’s the wound on the foot we were talking about…
For that wounded inner child that still exists. I still see him standing alone on the school ground vowing never to let others get to close to hurt him, hurt me.
This is the protector part in you vowing to never allow your wounded inner child to be hurt again. You closing your heart is a consequence of that original wound – of not having received the love and care you needed. And perhaps that’s why you later closed your heart for your parents too. Now this wound needs to be healed…
- This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by Tee.
TeeParticipantDear Felix,
I am sorry about your childhood, you’ve been through a lot. It’s not easy to be ignored by your own father, and then to experience something similar by your step-father too. It seems you needed to “toughen up” pretty early, since you were on your own already at 16. Life has been throwing you curve balls already since that time… And although you say about your family that “Over the years, through ups and down, we stuck together“, I imagine that emotionally, you felt alone. Perhaps your parents helped you when things got really tough, but other than that, you were alone and scared, as you said.
Yes, title kid in me is scared, but just like Jordan Peterson asks in his book, we have to be our own parents sometimes and treat ourselves as if we’re our own parents.
The little boy just wants to be loved.
It’s good you realize it. And that you’re in touch with him. When you talk about being lonely to the point that it hurts (“I crave physical and emotional connection to the point where it makes me psychologically and physically ill, and “I crave intimacy and closeness like drug addicts and alcoholics crave their vices.”), the pain is so big exactly because of your wounded inner child. Those are his words, his pain and his craving. He’s telling you that the pain of loneliness is enormous, because it felt enormous to him as a child.
Now you’d need to be a loving parent to that boy, be there for him and soothe him. Make him feel that he belongs. Alleviate his pain. Once you do that, I am almost sure that you’ll start seeing your current loneliness differently too. It won’t feel like an impossible burden and almost a death sentence, but something that can be changed. It will become much more manageable and much less threatening.
TeeParticipantDear Felix,
I appreciate you sharing some more, and telling us more about your family. I understand your love and loyalty to your family. I love my parents too, and they help me whenever I need it. However it doesn’t mean that their style of parenting, specially that of my mother’s, didn’t affect me and my life even as an adult. Because we all carry the wounds from our childhood with us into our adulthood, and we employ various defense mechanisms to protect us from pain. Whether we like it or not, we’re directly impacted, even programmed, by our childhood experiences. So when you say “It’s big boy time“, it’s not completely true, because the little boy is still inside of you. You may try to make it work without tending to him, but it will be very very hard, and there will be always something missing.
You seem like an independent, capable man, who’s been through a lot, and came on the other side. You also know what your values are, and you don’t want to sell your soul for profit. Excellent! But still, you’re suffering because it’s so damn hard. You feel lonely, and on top of that, the universe is throwing you curve balls. You’re trying to let go, to not expect anything, to toughen up even more… but as you say, it’s exhausting. You’re tired, you can hardly take it any more.
What if the way is not in toughening up even more and not hoping for anything, but instead, to soften? To connect to the vulnerable, fragile side of you, that needs help, needs company, needs respite from the constant struggle? That dares to hope in providence, in good things to come, in love… To change the approach and allow yourself to be vulnerable, and yet not weak (because the two are not the same)?
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
I found in my own crossing of rivers, a tendency to linger by the shores, clinging to the raft, trying to take it with me and not trusting my ability to build another. Perhaps that is what I was responding to in this thread.
If you’re willing, you can give an example of how in your own life you were “clinging to the raft”, and what in this thread you find similar to your own experience.
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
A stumbling block many have may be associating the idea of forgiveness with the idea that a forgiven person can no longer be held accountable. That would not be Love or a path to healthy boundaries. Unconditional Love becoming a unhealthy unconditional allowing.
I agree. Unconditional love or unconditional forgiveness can be just an empty phrase, and is sometimes used by spiritual people who find it hard to face their pain (or to accept responsibility for their actions), so they’d rather transcend their pain and pretend that all is love and light. I also agree that true forgiveness doesn’t mean allowing others to abuse or disrespect us, or to cross our boundaries. Even if we forgive our parents for having treating us badly, it doesn’t mean we’ll allow them to do it again. If they don’t want to change, we need to protect our boundaries and e.g. reduce contact with them.
I also wonder if that some times instead of healing our wounded inner child the tendency isn’t to cling to them.
Many people react from their wounded inner child. Actually, according to Internal Family Systems, our wounded inner child is only one part of our personality – the most fragile one, which was hurt by the lack of love, care, appreciation, support etc in our childhood. But we have other parts, called the protectors, which serve to protect that wounded inner child from pain. A protector part is e.g. when we act tough and distant in a relationship because we’re afraid of intimacy, we’re afraid of actually being hurt again. So we use various defense mechanisms to protect our wounded inner child. Those mechanisms are dysfunctional, they don’t help us, but still, we believe they shield us from pain.
So yes, we can cling to those defense mechanisms for a long time, till we decide to feel the original pain and heal it, so that we don’t need the false protection any more. That means that e.g. we heal from the fear of intimacy, which enables us to become open and vulnerable in a relationship. We aren’t playing defense any more. As a result, we can have deeper and healthier relationships.
What makes you wonder if Felix hasn’t found his way to heal the wounded child?
I don’t feel comfortable talking about Felix without him participating in the discussion. But I’ll just say that whenever we don’t want to look into something, it’s a sign that a defense mechanism is at work.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by Tee.
TeeParticipantDear Sarasa,
what I am noticing is that you’re talking about his behavior, saying that he was texting you all the time, calling you every day, checking on you if you don’t respond immediately. You say you got quite attached to that – you got used to him contacting you frequently. But you don’t say if you have a romantic interest in him or not. I asked you in my previous post whether you told him how you feel, you haven’t responded to that. But maybe a better question is – do you know how you feel towards him? Are you clear on that with yourself?
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
Part of that process is pulling back our shadow projections and ‘becoming our own mother and father’, learn to nurture and protect ourselves. Or set healthy boundaries. Having the best or worse parent, the task is the same. Finding peace with our parents inevitable failures while creating healthy boundaries.
I agree that we need to become a loving, compassionate parent to our own inner child, and learn to nurture and protect ourselves, as you say. Eventually we need to forgive our parents, regardless of how inadequate they might have been. What I was saying is that we can’t forgive by simply changing our thinking – we need to also process it emotionally, i.e. work on those unmet needs from our childhood, i.e. our wounded inner child.
The memory of the pain we felt as we step on the piece of glass is just that a memory. Perhaps their is even a scar and a lesson to be more careful around broken glass.
Until we heal our wounded inner child, i.e. give ourselves the love and affection we didn’t get as children, the wound will be active and festering under the surface of the skin. It first needs to be cleaned in order to start healing and a scar developing. Only then can it become a memory which doesn’t hurt any more. We can then truly forgive our parents and hold no resentments, because we know that they too were just a wounded children themselves and didn’t know better.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by Tee.
TeeParticipantDear Peter,
I think I understand what you’re trying to say – that we can help ourselves by changing our perspective, by looking at things differently. That’s true up to a point. But if we step on a piece of glass and hurt ourselves, we can’t pretend that it doesn’t hurt. We can’t look at it differently and say “no, I’m not in pain.” It’s pretty simple with physical pain.
With emotional pain it’s a bit trickier, because we can actually tell ourselves that it doesn’t hurt. We can rationalize it. We can try to “transcend it”. But the inner child is the part of us which still feels the pain – and the pain is very real. It’s like when we step on a piece of glass, only the glass is in our soul, in our heart. We can try to ignore it but it comes out in different other ways.
“Because perhaps it’s true what they say, that up to a certain age a child loves you unconditionally and uncontrollably for one simple reason, you’re theirs. Your parents and siblings can love you for the rest of your life, too, for precisely the same reason.” ― Fredrik Backman
It’s true that a child loves their parents unconditionally, because it depends on them completely. They are the source of love, nurturing and protection, and the child depends on them to meet their physical and emotional needs. Without the parents or care-takers, the child wouldn’t survive.
Parents or care-takers (or siblings) on the other hand, don’t necessarily love the child unconditionally. Sometimes they withdraw their love when the child doesn’t behave in a certain way. Sometimes parents can be physically and/or emotionally abusive. The fact that someone is our parent doesn’t guarantee they love us unconditionally. We might have been wounded by the very people who were supposed to love and care for us, and that’s why it’s so painful. We need to heal those wounds if we want to have a happy, fulfilling life.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by Tee.
TeeParticipantDear Felix,
There’s something else I’d like to add. When you say you’ve forgiven your parents and love them unconditionally, without actually having done the inner child work, you’re invalidating the feelings of that inner child. You’re telling your younger self that it doesn’t matter that he was hurt by the actions of your parents (“My parents did some bad stuff in the past when I was younger. And by bad, I don’t abuse or something terrible in that sense. I mean neglect and absence of love and care.“)
Emotional neglect can be very hard on the child, because we feel unseen and unappreciated. From what you’ve written, your parents didn’t see the real you, but were only interested in superficial things. (“They are so different that if we weren’t related I would not look in their direction and they would not look in mine. They are obsessed with wealth, superficial things, Kardashian culture, and truly believe that only material wealth brings true happiness. I am 100% opposite of that.”)
They most likely didn’t appreciate the real you, because they weren’t in touch with their authentic selves either. So you probably felt not understood and very alone. Actually you said it yourself: “The ONLY thing that still bothers me through all my actualization, realization, etc., is my aloneness. It has been with me since the beginning of time.”
I imagine that you felt alone since the beginning of time because your parents never saw the real you, nor were they interested in the real you.
“What matters is that I am learning to love myself, not in a vain selfish kind of a way, but in a way where I see that my mind, body, and my consciousness are starting to work together in unison.”
If you want to truly love yourself, you need to embrace your wounded inner child. You need to validate his feelings, validate his pain, and truly see him, rather than push him away (which is quite the opposite of how your parents treated you). Only then can you truly love yourself.
TeeParticipantDear Felix,
I know you’re not asking for feedback any more, but I still want to say that what Anita noticed isn’t off topic. Not at all. I understand you don’t want to use this public forum for personal therapy and talking about your past, but I suggest you do find a therapist to work through those issues in private. Because even though we say we’ve forgiven our parents and hold no resentment towards them, it’s not completely true because it’s not enough to do it mentally, rationally. There’s still a wounded inner child within us, and no matter how your enlightened adult self is trying to accept it and rationalize it telling yourself c’est la vie, the wounded child is screaming for love, care and attention. Unless you do the inner work of healing that wound, it will be difficult to move forward. You’ll feel empty, exhausted and lonely, like you do now. If you want a rich, fulfilled life, you need to tend to the unhealed wound within.
TeeParticipantDear Peace,
now it’s getting clearer to me why you were so unhappy in childhood – your mother was too busy with various chores and was a type of person who didn’t say much. It seems like she didn’t ask you too many questions either, e.g. she didn’t inquire how was school, or what’s up, neither did she notice if you felt disturbed or sad about something. Probably that’s why you never had the urge to go to her to complain or confide in her when you had a problem. You didn’t tell her about your period either, neither did you dare to mention the sexual abuse when it happened to you. You had to carry a very big burden by yourself, and it appears that your mother didn’t show too much interest in you and your feelings. Although she didn’t criticize you, she was actually emotionally distant – it was a sort of emotional neglect.
This probably happens quite frequently in big families like yours, but still, you didn’t get the care, attention and protection (and guidance) a child should get. I can imagine you didn’t feel important enough to even bother your mother (or your father) with your problems, did you? You didn’t feel seen and you didn’t feel worthy to be seen either. And this is why you prayed to God to die, it was so unbearable for you.
To be honest, when you first told about your parents – that they were loving and haven’t criticized you – I didn’t understand how come then you had such a hard time as a child. But now I understand – it wasn’t emotional abuse, but emotional neglect. Perhaps if you had been more demanding, your mother would have paid more attention to you. But you were sensitive, you rather withdrew and suffered in silence, because you believed you don’t have the right to demand attention.
All this explains why you’re longing for attention now – you are longing for someone to see you and “mirror” you, to understand you, to be there for you. You said in one of your earlier posts that you wanted from a man to “take a stand for you” (“i feel like no one will ever accept me as a partner everyone will come to pass their time but none will ever take a stand for me“). Your mother, and it appears your father too, never took a stand for you. Never even asked you how you’re doing and what you’re feeling. Never noticed that you’re hurting. You don’t want to go through the pain alone any more, so you’re looking for a man to be there for you. But until you learn to be there for yourself and soothe yourself, no one will be able to give it from the outside.
I think you should find a counselor to work on the sexual abuse trauma, and also to help you heal emotional neglect. So you can be whole within yourself and be able to soothe yourself, without looking for a man to soothe you (which always ended up badly so far). If I were you, I would focus on my healing, I wouldn’t engage in relationships with men for now, because you always end up hurting afterwards. Try to put aside for now the pressure to get married and the whole issue of being a virgin. You need to first find yourself and own yourself, before you can enter in a healthy relationship with a man.
Once you heal, you’ll be able to attract more balanced and emotionally mature men, who will appreciate you for who you are as a person, in your entirety, and won’t see you as a piece of meat or a piece of hymen, as you said. The process of healing and self-discovery may take a while, even a few years, but it’ll be worth it, because the benefits and consequences will be for a lifetime…
- This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by Tee.
TeeParticipantDear Peace,
Anita might be unto something when she says your mother might have not protected you enough. How did she react when your siblings were teasing you, or when your cousins insulted you? For example, you said one of your cousins told you to stay at home when you were 11 years old. You father had already started showing symptoms of dementia at that time, so I assume he didn’t intervene much? What about your mother? How did she react to this cousin harassing you and telling you to stay at home?
Another problem I see is that until you were 9-10 years old, you father was working all day long and didn’t participate in your upbringing too much. Later, as you entered puberty, he started getting more and more ill and incapacitated to be there for you. Instead, there were numerous male cousins who sort of started taking the role of your father in “guiding” you, but actually they insulted you, humiliated you, tried to control you, and showed zero appreciation for you. Where was your brother in this whole picture? Was he old enough to be a positive influence on you, or he joined your cousins in mocking you?
I imagine this is what led you to miss the presence of a healthy, supportive father figure. And if your mother wasn’t strong enough, or it wasn’t culturally appropriate that she protect you from your male cousins, then of course, you would suffer a lot and long for a man who would love you and protect you. That could be why you got involved with a man much older than you when you were only 15 years old. But he wasn’t too interested in you either, he wouldn’t even touch your hand when you tried to touch his.
Later, in Germany, you felt freer and started exploring relationships with men, but they all ended badly. You rushed from one relationship into another, and the reason is probably that you craved man’s love and presence so much, that you felt you couldn’t do without it. Also note that you were attracted to men older than you (all except your current boyfriend). So you crave the love of a mature man. Two of your ex boyfriends actually have children of their own.
This all tells me that the pain and the craving for love is related to a missing father figure. Probably your mother couldn’t fill that role, or wasn’t even supposed to, due to cultural limitations? You received a very negative message from men in your early life (your male cousins, possibly your brother too) – basically that you’re unlovable and worthless. That makes you long for a man who’d finally tell you you’re lovable and valuable to them.
How does all this sound to you?
TeeParticipantDear Peace,
thank you for sharing some more or your very interesting story! If I am understanding it well, you actually felt loved and supported by your parents. However, you were very much hurt by the behavior of your siblings and cousins, and your parents’ love couldn’t make up for your feelings of lack. You said earlier that you felt so miserable that at some point you prayed to God to die (“Even though i had not a happy childhood, i felt unloved, wished to be dead because no one shows me affection, appreciation, care, love apart from my mom… I was very sensitive… I used to cry alone nd used to pray to God for death in childhood…”).
So it appears that you felt unloved not because your parents didn’t love you, but because your siblings and cousins didn’t love you or show appreciation to you. Your siblings (7 sisters and 1 brother) were mocking you (“criticized me in fun way which hurted me“) and were jealous that your mom loves you so much (“my other siblings were actually jealous because my mom loves me alot”).
Your cousins and aunt insulted you and humiliated you because you were poor. They didn’t want to offer you tea or take you in their car with them. By the way, did they treat your other siblings like that too, or just you?
It could be that the voices of your siblings and cousins, who were many, overpowered the voice of your parents. So you focused on not receiving love, on not being appreciated by them, rather than on receiving love and being appreciated by your parents. You took one part of your childhood experience and made it your whole reality. And you suffered because of it a great deal. This is how we often operate – we focus on the negative, and forget or take for granted the positive experiences.
You say that later your sisters actually helped you and enabled you to go to study abroad. One of them sold her gold, and the other one took a loan so you can go abroad. So although they might have mocked you when you were children, they were generous and supportive of you later, as adults. Or at least they supported you materially. Do you feel they support you in general or they criticize you for how you live your life?
Right now I don’t want to return immediately to the subject of your boyfriend, but for now, perhaps just try to re-frame or take another look at your childhood experience of feeling unloved. Because in reality, you were actually loved by your parents, but you chose to focus on being unloved by your siblings and cousins. You focused on the pain and lack. Try to see that you were loved as well, try to go back to the positive memories and focus on the love you received in your mother’s lap, when she fed you and cared for you, when your father was kind to you, when he told you he wants education for you etc etc…
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