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Where to find strength

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Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 111 total)
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  • #376510
    Peter
    Participant

    TeaK

    Re-crossing the river would be not trusting the ‘realization’ that led to the moment of letting go.  Its a personal experience that may be best left at that. When does the seeker become the finder the realizer and makes it theirs? truly, authentically theirs? Only they can now.

    Like the person that succeeds in losing weight there will be those that are close to them that won’t like it. For their own unconscious reasons they may try to get the person to go back to how things were…

    How to explain the raft. There is a saying that to Find God you most Lose God. The Raft is the organization that my help you get you across the river but should not be mistaken for the goal. The Goal was to cross the river and once crossed to continue on the journey.  The Organization designed to help you across is also designed to keep you on the raft. To avoid the uncertainty of what’s might come next the temptation is to cling to the raft. This is when religion can become fundamentalist’s. It isn’t about growth anymore but staying safe with in the boundaries of the organization. In the Zen quote it isn’t’ the Raft that is important but what you leaned by building it.  Letting go of what you build is difficult. Letting go of therapy after the realization can be difficult. Its ‘safer’ to hold on.  Sometimes letting go of the raft feels like losing community so its understandable that we cling.  I know this is abstract

    I responded to Felix because I felt he was entering into a ‘Dark night of the soul’. If such was the case I was hoping that what I said might make sense to him and that he wouldn’t panic.

     

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Peter.
    #376512
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Peter,

    you’re asking how we can know for sure if we’ve forgiven and let go (How do you know if you have really forgiven, let go, moved forward…?).

    For that purpose, I’m including what you said about letting go:

    My parents grew up in the 40’s and 50’s were it was  parents calling to do the “carrying”. I knew they would be horrified to have me “carry” them.  Letting go of that was something I could do for them. That was the realization. I might not have been able to let go for myself but I could for them. That was what they needed from me, even while they were alive, and that was how I could, would, honor them including the disappointments and hurt we gave each other.

    So what changed after this letting go? Everything… nothing… The ‘mountain is back to being a mountain’. There is temptation  to go back and climb it again.. the moment of letting go can be intoxicating, and what if I forget…

    Earlier I was talking about the temptation of going back, re-crossing the river, over and over again to make sure, make perfect, to recreate the ‘high’ and or peace of that moment of ‘knowing’ that is beyond knowing. 

     

    From your words I gather that you’re asking whether you’ve truly let go of guilt that you’ve felt regarding your parents. You had an experience – perhaps a peak experience or a realization – where you felt like you’ve let go. It gave you a “high” and a sense of peace. It was intoxicating and you felt good in that moment. What has changed for you after that experience? “Everything… nothing”. My take on that is that you had a realization – an insight that changed how you look at things, and even how you feel for a brief moment, but on a longer run, your life and your emotional experience haven’t changed much. You tend to “forget” the “intoxicating moment” and are tempted to go back to cross the river again – to go back into your old patterns, your old feeling of guilt, perhaps, forgetting that you’ve already let go of it once.

    This is how I am interpreting your words. Feel free to correct me if I misunderstood them.

    #376514
    Felix
    Participant

    Wow, getting deeper and deeper I see. This is like metaphor kung fu. I don’t follow all the concepts presented, but I can speak from personal experience that while our childhood shapes us more than we could ever realize, I’ve truly forgiven everyone involved to the best of my abilities. I cannot forgive anymore than I’ve already let go. Some of the people were “cut loose” and some were forgiven, but I’ve let go. And not just from childhood, but from the more recent past. I’ve let go of everything and everyone. I am looking inside right now and discovering my self. My enlightenment-ish moment came when I was feeling completely empty. I let go of everything and I found what I was searching for for a long time. The problem that remains is the current topic, how to find the strength for my current situation in life? As someone mentioned above, my parents will help me when I need help, but it’s more of a rescue than an actual help. I have no one to turn to. I have bo guide in life, no wise old sage who can use some ancient wisdom to help me guide myself. I am totally lost and doing the best I can, but because I am so lost, it’s very tough for me right now. All my friends are enjoying their lives with their wives and children, spending time in the backyards and traveling the world, and I’ve lost everything. I have my dog left so not everything. But I lost my health, most of my savings, my home, my wife, my job, had cancer, had to file for Bankruptcy, and many other things went wrong. Yet, I am still here and not giving up. But life is supposed to be about ups and downs, or as Russians say, life is like a Zebra, a black line, a white line, but my downs have laster for too long. I am afraid I’ll break one of these days.

    #376516
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Felix,

    I know it’s hard for you right now, and as you said, your greatest problem is loneliness. I’ve tried to suggest a way how to alleviate the pain of loneliness (via the inner child healing), but it seems you don’t resonate with that approach at the moment. That’s fine. But let me ask you a question: What makes you believe that you won’t be able to find a companion in the near future, specially after the covid restrictions are lifted? You sound like you’ll stay alone forever, and that there’s simply no solution. You sound desperate. In reality, it doesn’t have to be like that, there are many ways to meet women. But in your mind, it seems almost impossible.

    “All my friends are enjoying their lives with their wives and children, spending time in the backyards and traveling the world, and I’ve lost everything.”

    You’re focusing on what you’ve lost (and granted, you did lose a lot), but what about the hope for the future? The things you can gain in the future? It appears it’s very hard for you to trust that things can get better.

    #376527
    Nar
    Participant

    Hi Felix,

    Good to hear from you and that you had breakthrough moments.

    I can see your current conflict is that you are seeking to change your current situation in life and wish for strength to be able to do that. From what I understand, you feel lonely romantically and you are not giving up.

    I can write to you all sorts of motivational and encouraging messages here but I think it is all rather silly and futile. Instead I’d like to ask:

    -You are saying your friends are happy travelling and having family lives You see yourself in a worse situation than some other people around you. I guess you are aware that you compare yourself a lot to others who are “happy, successful, healthy, etc.etc.” Why do you think you do this? Why do you think anyone would do this?

    -Have you looked into what emotional issues might have triggered cancer in you? Cancer is always related to strongly repressed emotions and it is a way our body is trying to wake us to the truth of it. It is a body’s extreme signal to wake one up…

    -About loneliness, it is absolutely natural and normal to feel lonely in a sense of lacking human contact and intimacy, especially in our times.Is the loneliness you feel is the desire for human contact or something more and deeper?…what is your loneliness made of? can you describe it in more details?

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Nar.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Nar.
    #376534
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi TeaK

    I suspect we are speaking past each other.  The question I asked about When does the seeker become a finder?  How we can know for sure if we’ve forgiven and let go ? Was a question I was asking you.  I have had my experience that answered that for me, which after failing badly to explain in words suspected such a experience was one of those that could disappear when ‘explained’.  So best to leave it at that

    In this context ‘clinging to the raft’ might be clinging to ‘being a seeker’  forgetting that the goal of a seeker is to find and then take what they find and make it theirs. If you have ever met someone adducted to self-help, picking at wounds so that the scar can never fully form and close the wound,  you may have met a person that is clinging to the raft, a label, a wound, a unhealthy relationship, unskillful story…  Anything to avoid entering into the woods and continuing the journey.

    #376535
    Peter
    Participant

    You enter the forest at the darkest point, where there is no path. – Joseph Campbell

    Hi Felix.

    Campbell has been one of my guides. A question behind the hero journey is how are we to respond to Life. Life as it is, the wonder and horror. Yes we flow with Life, No we can/must fix it, No get me off this ride…..  Were indeed to find the strength? That is the call.  (Google Bill Moyers interview with Campbell if your interested in a summary)

    We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us. The labyrinth is thoroughly known; we have only to follow the thread of the hero path. And where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god. And where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves. And where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world. – Campbell

    Everything you express about your experience feels very much like a call to enter dark woods which we each do alone. If, and I believe this, we heed the call and enter the wood bravely (feeling the fear) we will come across those that would aid us. In the myths these are often the “small animals” (unexpected sources that before the call we would overlook but heeding the call and keeping our eyes open we might notice)  This may sound like a paradox but “Entering the woods” and the practice of being “Still and waiting” are related if not the same thing.

    I wish you well, something tells me you will find your way.

    FYI I very much liked  Campbell book “Pathways to Bliss: Mythology and Personal Transformation”

    #376536
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Peter,

    yes, better to leave it because we do speak beside each other. You don’t want to talk about your personal experience, but about general concepts. I on the contrary tried to “interpret” your words and understand them in the context of what you might be experiencing emotionally, psychologically, in your life. But I respect that you don’t want to discuss your life, so I won’t be trying to interpret your words any more.

    #376541
    Peter
    Participant

    Thanks for taking a interest TeaK

    I would be very interested in your answer to the question of when do you know the work, a healing, forgiveness what ever has been accomplished?
    It seems to me its something that is extremely difficult to communicate and many of those you share the experience with won’t or maybe can’t believe you.

     

    #376542
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Peter,

    The question I asked about When does the seeker become a finder? How we can know for sure if we’ve forgiven and let go ? Was a question I was asking you. I have had my experience that answered that for me, which after failing badly to explain in words suspected such a experience was one of those that could disappear when ‘explained’.

    I know that I’ve forgiven and let go (and healed the negative emotional experiences from my childhood) because my life is better as a result. I feel better about myself, have healthier relationships, my life has more purpose and meaning, etc. So there is a positive impact on my life.

    #376543
    Peter
    Participant

    Nice. You focused on the outcome and avoided giving to much detail about which specific wounds you had to deal with. I see my error. Thanks

    #376560
    Peter
    Participant

    Felix you may find The YouTube movie FINDING JOE interesting

    #376571
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Peter,

    Nice. You focused on the outcome and avoided giving to much detail about which specific wounds you had to deal with. I see my error. Thanks

    Not sure what you mean above – what error of yours do you see?

    #376576
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Teak
    I didn’t understand why I was giving you the impression that the realizations and lettings go I experienced wasn’t complete or real. I know that wasn’t your intent but I felt that you were trying to push me back into re-analyses and put in doubt my experiences.

    When you were asked the question ‘how do you know when you have let go’ you avoided any personal information about the experiences that were related to that.  When I talked about my parents I opened the door for you to question my experience of letting go. I thought adding some personal information would help the point I was trying to make and that seems to have been a error.

    Anyway all good

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by Peter.
    #376578
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Peter,

    I didn’t understand why I was giving you the impression that the realizations and lettings go I experienced wasn’t complete or real. I know that wasn’t your intent but I felt that you were trying to push me back into re-analyses and put in doubt my experiences.

    You yourself were talking about re-crossing the river, using the raft when it’s no longer needed, the temptation to go back and climb the mountain again, and the possibility that you might forget the moment of letting go. These metaphors made me think that you’re doubting your own experience of letting go.

    When you were asked the question ‘how do you know when you have let go’ you avoided any personal information about the experiences that were related to that.

    I talked about my healing process on the other threads. It was mostly related to inner child healing, which allowed me to re-experience the painful memory and give it a different ending, so to speak, so that I am no longer stuck in that particular childhood wound. But I didn’t intend to hide anything when answering your question: the reason I know that I’ve healed is because my life has changed as a result. So that would be the ultimate “proof”, I believe.

    When I talked about my parents I opened the door for you to question my experience of letting go. I thought adding some personal information would help the point I was trying to make and that seems to have been a error.

    In the posts where you talked about your parents, you also used the above metaphors, that might suggest a certain doubt on your part, that’s why I thought the two may be related.

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 111 total)

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