Dear Dafne,

But what I want to avoid is living together too soon or being with someone every minute of the day. When that happens, it doesn’t feel right or natural – it’s almost as if we’re already married, before we’ve even had the chance to exchange those vows that make it real and special. For me, that takes away from what should feel new, special, and exciting between us.

Sure, you don’t need to move in with someone immediately, I don’t think that’s even advisable. I was in a LDR with my now husband, and we only met once per month or so. But we communicated via email regularly (there were no smart phones in those times 🙂 ). And we went on trips together.

You can get to know the person quite well over a period of time, even if you don’t live together. But it’s still important to meet them in real-life situations, not only online (which you did, both with this last guy and previously).

As for maintaining premarital purity, I guess you really need to look for someone who is on the same page with you, i.e. who will not try to lure you into living together too soon. They have to be on board with no sex before marriage, but also in being patient and willing to wait – because they value premarital purity, the same as you do.

So look for someone who values premarital purity, not only agrees to do it for you, reluctantly.

I’m sure there are many other situations too – everyday challenges, problem-solving together, or simply observing how we support each other in different circumstances – that can show just as much about compatibility as living under the same roof. Would you add any other possibilities, Tee?

Sure, even going to a restaurant can reveal a lot, or going on a trip together, or doing some activities (hobbies) that you both like, or perhaps going to a family function together. There are many opportunities to see the person “in action” and decide whether you like their character.

Yes, Tee, he fits the profile of a high-conflict or problematic partner. To add to what you’ve already notices for example, he often criticizes others in ways that feel unnecessary or mean-spirited.

One example is how he spoke about his best girlfriend’s boyfriend — someone she’s known for more than five years. He criticized him harshly; it seemed clear that this other person doesn’t like him and they have no contact. He was mocking his job, even though he actually has a stable job and is competent. It was uncomfortable to hear, and it made me realize that he tends to demean or belittle others to feel better about himself.

Yeah, mocking and talking badly about someone just for fun is not a good feature. And you’re right, he might have been jealous of the guy because he had a stable job, whereas he himself had a part-time job and no real career success (so far). And so he might have felt the need to mock the other guy to feel better about himself.

At first, he seemed to create the fairy tale I wanted. By slowly revealing myself, he became the ideal person for me. In the beginning, I thought this was a good thing – he was eager to please and be agreeable, which seemed like a beautiful quality, right?

Well, it can be a tricky thing, because if you want the person to be different, to become “someone else” – because the way he currently is isn’t good enough for you – that might be a problem. Because we have to accept people as they are – I mean, their major character features – and not want to change them.

I’m not talking about some small details and annoying habits they may have – which are not key features of their character. But let’s say you want to turn a shy guy into an extrovert, that’s going to cause trouble and tension. Because we’ll have unrealistic expectations on them, and they’ll feel under pressure to accomplish things, to fulfill our expectations, to become something they’re not. If you know what I mean?

He was trying to be who I wanted him to be, and in itself, that might not have been a bad thing. He seemed okay with being that “new person” for me.

What kind of person did you want him to be, which he wasn’t being when you two met?

The problem, though, was that over time, his actions didn’t fully match what he was trying to show. It felt like he was more focused on gaining my time or approval, rather than genuinely changing.

What kind of change was he promising? Was it related to his character (that he would become a different kind of person), or rather to his career and the success of his projects and suchlike?

We did establish that he was quite manipulative and vague in telling you about his business deals. The question is whether he did it because he was hiding his true intentions and possibly wanted to take advantage of you, or he felt under pressure to “perform”, so to speak, to please you, to meet your expectations, and so he was lying/hiding the facts because he didn’t want to seem like a loser, for example?

I don’t know, so far I got the impression that he was rather manipulative, and the motorway incident showed that he didn’t really have empathy for you and that you couldn’t count on him in times of need.

But I’m curious what change was he promising, that never came to be?

Regarding the question about the wrong fear, I’m still thinking about it. I think the most important is to know what a healthy love and a healthy relationship looks like. To recognize abusive and manipulative behaviors. To know that we deserve certain things (love, respect) and not settle for people who don’t give us that. We need to know what the red flags are in a relationship, and if there are no red flags, we can proceed with more trust.

But I guess we also need to heal those things (emotional wounds) that made us lose faith in people who were supposed to love us. In people closest to us. We need to regain healthy trust in people. But for that, healing needs to happen. It takes time.

Okay, dear Dafne, I’m signing off for now. Take care and lots of love! <3

Just an addition:

Not only does Anita not acknowledge that her words might have hurt me and Alessa – she now even pretends that she doesn’t remember if she was talking about us:

I don’t remember if I had you and/or Alessa in mind when I wrote that sentence (I wrote so much in my stream-of-consciousness posts…),

So much for the willingness to be accountable for one’s own actions…

Hi Alessa,

I can really only speak to my own experience. I can understand why Anita was hurt by what I said.

That’s kind of you, you have empathy and can put yourself in Anita’s shoes. However, what about your pain? The fact that Anita felt hurt doesn’t negate that Anita also caused hurt to you (and me). You did express that multiple times, including most recently:

There is no need to agree to disagree. I can speak for myself. I was hurt by the things that were said.

This is Anita’s reaction:

I hear that you were hurt during the conflict. I’m not dismissing that. I simply don’t have the capacity to keep unpacking this dynamic. I’ve said what I needed to say, and I’m choosing to step back now.

Is that an apology? She is taking note of your pain, however she didn’t say she apologizes for causing you pain, or for doing anything wrong that might have hurt you. You on the other hand apologized to her, quite extensively:

I’m sorry to hear that you felt unsafe, overwhelmed and unable to process it at the time. … I feel like I definitely said the wrong thing in that message to you. … It wasn’t really appropriate for me to go into such deep ideas in the middle of a conflict. I’m sorry, I understand that it hurt you.

Anita acknowledged that you were in pain, but refused to take responsibility that her words or actions (e.g. repeatedly speaking badly about both of us and refusing to stop) might have caused that pain. From what I am seeing, Anita refused to be accountable for her actions.

And that’s what hurts me: lack of acknowledgment that harm was done, or even if there is some vague acknowledgment (I hear that you were hurt during the conflict. I’m not dismissing that.), lack of apology.

Perhaps even more than her lack of accountability, it hurts me that you, Alessa, believe that this is all fine, and that Anita is doing her best. These are your words to her:

I appreciate that you have done your best to talk about these things despite it being difficult for you. I appreciate you being respectful and understanding. I can see that you are trying your best.

I understand that this has been difficult for you, but I appreciate that you tried anyway. So thank you for that.

But is she really (trying her best)?

Dear Eva,

thank you for sharing about your relationship with your parents… it certainly wasn’t easy, and I think you’re right that your current relationship problems (the inability to let go and the fear of abandonment) stem from your relationship with your father.

What he has been doing is emotional abuse: first, he is very strict and perfectionist, scolding you, hitting you and otherwise punishing you for any “imperfection” or mistake you may have made:

We always had to get good grades, there was scolding, yelling if they were weaker than a 4. With us, the maximum best grade is a 5. We were also punished very often, if we did something that was not a rule. He knew how to hit us, yell, and I was not allowed to bite, I had a curfew until 12 o’clock until I was 18. He was very strict with us

On top of that, if you did anything that he didn’t approve of, if you expressed criticism of him, or even gave him well-meaning advice, he would get angry and emotionally withdraw, giving you a silent treatment that lasted for days on end (in extreme cases even threatening to kill himself):

He is a man that wants everything under his control, if I do/act/say something opposite of his opinion, there was always that dissmisive, angry approach and being mad for days not talking to anyone at home.

He doesn’t accept criticism, he gets angry if he is criticized or given advice, he goes to work and sits there for days angry, he doesn’t talk to anyone.

We also had a moment 10 years ago, very dramatic, where they fought a lot with shouting, pushing, that he was going to leave, even that he was going to kill himself and I don’t know what.

Silent treatment is a way to punish you for daring to oppose him or even to disagree with him. You couldn’t have a relationship with him, because all you got was criticism, scolding, punishment, and then his shutting down if you dared to protest. Sometimes he resorted to threats of abandonment and even suicide, which is a very cruel way of manipulation and forcing a child into submission.

Unfortunately, he had no compassion or empathy for you, no understanding of your needs. It was all about him, his needs, his moods, his getting what he wants. Indeed, very childish (and selfish). And manipulative.

I’m afraid he too has narcissistic features, like your boyfriend. It’s all about him, nothing about you.

And of course, growing up with such a father left a deep scar on you. You definitely didn’t get any validation, and so even if you did well at school and in your studies (I’m not spoiled and I’m not a lazy person. I always tried hard, I studied, I got a lot of awards and successes.), you feel like you haven’t achieved anything (I feel like I haven’t achieved anything and like I’m nowhere right now.)

That can all be contributed to having a demanding, criticizing father, who could never be pleased. Whatever you did, he was never happy. You were never good enough.

So the message you got from him (and are still getting from him) is “you’re not good enough”. But you have to understand that that’s his false opinion of you, not the truth.

You would need to heal all that false conditioning from your childhood. Have you been talking about your childhood in therapy?

I would love to help you more, and would love to continue our conversation here…

Anita,

You are interpreting my emotional processing as projection, false accusation, and a Smear campaign, framing my subjective experience as objectively harmful, even though I didn’t name you or Alessa, didn’t claim either one of you rejoiced in my pain—only that I feared it. I was writing in my own thread, about my own healing

Your subjective experience was posted on a public forum, and we all knew who you were talking about. You felt threatened by us, and you verbalized it. It might have been healing for you to say those words, but it was hurtful for the recipients of those qualifications and insinuations.

If you cannot see it, I’m sorry. However, accusing me of gaslighting when it is exactly what you are doing – denying that your words did any harm to us – is extraordinary.

None of the quotes you provided indicate verbal abuse. Not by any ethical, psychological, or relational standard.

* Verbal abuse involves such things as targeted insults, threats, degrading language, and intentional harm.

I did none of that. I expressed distress, reclaimed my voice, and set boundaries around my healing space.

You expressed qualifications, accusations and insinuations about us. You presented those qualifications as facts: “current invalidating people… people who continue my mother’s work of invalidation and judgment”. People who “arrogantly, self-righteously.. ignorantly… criticize, point to what’s lacking in the other person”.

Is that expressing distress or also a qualification of those people? Labeling? You labeled us as invalidating, judgmental, criticizing, arrogant, self-righteous.

You also stated as a fact that we try to hurt you, and that we dismiss and misuse you:
She doesn’t accommodate those who try to hurt her. She doesn’t submit to those who dismiss her.. those who misuse her.

You also expressed fear of being punished by us:
But they will hurt me, they will punish me.

Eventually, you insinuated that we might rejoice in your pain:
And I was thinking: if I share this here, will some people rejoice in my pain?
Will some people go: Yea! The **** got hurt!?

All of the above is painting us in bad light, making negative qualifications about us, presenting us as your abusers, de facto.

If you don’t see that this was hurtful to us, then I won’t try to convince you of anything anymore.

I’ll let other forum members decide who is gaslighting whom here.

Anita,

“When this verbal abuse reached a culmination”- what verbal abuse? Any quotes to indicate verbal abuse on my part?

Okay, let’s see:

July 31, 2025:

BELIEVE Me, be on MY SIDE.
Keep current invalidating people out of my personal space: people who continue my mother’s work of invalidation and judgment.. however politely.
I feel anger at all the people past and recent.. who hurt me. I don’t want to do the same to others: to arrogantly, self-righteously.. ignorantly… criticize, point to what’s lacking in the other person…

August 5, 2025:

Young Anita to older Anita: …. Really, really.. I don’t have to talk to anyone I don’t want to talk to..?
Older Anita: you don’t have to.
Younger Anita: I DON’T have to?
Older Anita: You don’t have to.
Younger Anita: I can talk to whom I want to, to not talk to whom I don’t… Just like that?
Older Anita: Just like that.
Younger Anita: And they can’t make me???
Older Anita: They can’t make you.
Younger Anita: And the people I try so hard to reach, to win.. I don’t have to anymore?
Older Anita: You don’t have to. You are free.
Younger Anita: F.R.E.E.. Just like that?
Older Anita: Just like that. You earned it.
Younger Anita (a sigh… a concern): But they will hurt me, they will punish me.. They will punish me if I don’t.
Older Anita: Anita doesn’t go belly-up anymore. She doesn’t accommodate those who try to hurt her. She doesn’t submit to those who dismiss her.. those who misuse her. She is a strong young-old little girl.

After the above post, Alessa asked Anita to stop talking about her:

I’m sure you don’t mean anything bad by it, but can you please refrain from making anssumptions about people you don’t want to talk to. Thanks very much.

But Anita flagged her post as inappropriate and kept posting (July 7, 2025):

SOCJ:
I was cutting blackberries today (thorny, aggressive ouch-if-they-hit-you), and my left arm bled in different locations. At a different area, cutting blackberries, I was hit by stinging nettles- it’s a neurological hit- I am feeling it right now om my right hand as I am typing with my left.
And I was thinking: if I share this here, will some people rejoice in my pain?
Will some people go: Yea! The **** got hurt!?
This is what crossed my mind, following recent interactions here, in the forums.
I’m being as honest as honest-can-be.
Performative Politeness (PP) is not the same as Kindness, at least not the genuine, trustworthy kind of kindness.
I can tell the difference.
So, I am sharing this in my own thread, which I think of as my private sanctuary, a private sanctuary which I need others to witness, at least a few others.
Witnessed, not attacked.

**
SOCJ, continued: The more I share here, the more stuff I give my criticizers (a couple, a few) to use against me.
Yet I keep sharing because (it’s making me smile right now.. although stinging nettles are still stinging).. because there’s no substitution for my growing TRUST in ME.
This is what I lacked for way, way… way too long.
I’m so happy right now.

Alessa posted again following the above two posts, asking Anita very politely, with lots of compassion and understanding, to stop:

Hi Anita
I appreciate that you’re going through something right now.

Boundaries are a two way street. If you don’t want replies. It is important to stop making painful assumptions about people that you don’t want to talk to you. You might not understand what you are doing is hurtful. It is. Which is why you have been asked to stop multiple times. No one has to stay quiet whilst you talk about them. It is a public space.

I am not criticising you. I am managing my own boundaries as someone you are repeatedly talking about. I am allowed to take care of myself, just as you are allowed to take care of yourself.

Honestly, I don’t need this stress. If you don’t stop I’m just going to leave because I don’t have the emotional bandwidth to deal with it right now. I really don’t like conflict because of my PTSD which is really bad right now.

On a side note, I don’t even understand why you got upset at me in the first place. You didn’t want to discuss it. I would like to work things out and listen to you when you are ready to talk. This might be the last thing I talk, so take care in advance. I wish you well and healing on your journey. <3

Anita refuses and posts this defiant reply:

This is my space—my healing space. I will continue to speak freely here unless Lori, the site owner, or a site moderator asks otherwise.

In my SOCJ writings, I can’t help but think of this or that person—whether in real life or here on tiny buddha—when I reflect on certain emotional or behavioral dynamics. I may be referring to multiple people at any one time, not just one.

I’m not mentioning names or sharing personal details that others have disclosed about their private lives, so this is fair.
It’s not reasonable—or healing—for me to walk on eggshells, wondering: Will this person or that person think I’m referring to them? Should I delete this?

My SOCJ thread isn’t just a journal. It’s a reclamation of voice after years of emotional silencing. It’s a space where I assert boundaries, name harm, and integrate my story. It’s a living archive of my healing—raw, unfiltered, and courageous.
To abandon it would be to submit to the very dynamic I’m working to dismantle: the one where someone else’s discomfort overrides my truth.

Then I post, asking Lori to intervene. As a result, two of Anita’s posts (those posted on July 7), in which she insinuates about me and Alessa wanting to see her hurt, are deleted.

Is this verbal abuse? Well, it is certainly abuse, because you, Anita, are accusing me and Alessa (in a veiled manner, not mentioning our names, but it’s clear who you’re talking about) of all kinds of things, such as:

– continuing your mother’s work of invalidation and judgment,
– arrogantly, self-righteously.. ignorantly… criticizing, pointing to what’s lacking in the other person,
– wanting to hurt you and punish you,
– dismissing you,
– misusing you,
– rejoicing in your pain,
– wanting to use derogatory names against you.

You had verbalized your negative feelings about us, accusing us of all manner of things, in a public space. When one person is accusing another of hurting them – when it is only the person’s subjective feeling, not the reality – what is it called? False accusations?

Hi Alessa,

I know that in some ways, I might have helped and in some ways I might have hurt? I’m sorry, I relied on your openness, kindness, good faith, insight, willingness to reflect and understand that I was trying to help. It’s not really fair is it? Especially when you’re in the middle of a painful conflict. I’m deeply sorry for that. ❤️

I know that I didn’t handle the situation in a healthy way and I’m trying to learn more about how to handle situations like this because I want to do better. I’m under no illusion that I’m perfect or know the right thing to do. These situations are so complicated and being human is complicated.

Please don’t worry about it. You haven’t hurt me. I’m much more resilient emotionally than I am physically, haha 🙂 Really. I appreciated your support and I’ve also noticed your struggle. But I know your heart is in the right place, and that your attempts came from the place of wanting the conflict to go away. For everyone to get along, I assume? I totally understand where you were coming from, so please don’t worry about it.

I would like for you to talk more about any hurt you felt about how I mishandled the situation? If you want to? It is up to you.

First, let me assure you you haven’t mishandled the situation. My impression is that you very much wanted to re-establish communication with Anita, and you’ve tried everything to make that happen. And so there might have been some things that didn’t feel so good to hear, however, they didn’t truly hurt me, because I knew where you were coming from.

We can talk about it later, if you’d like, but better not now, because you said you’re pretty stressed at the moment:

Do I know how I feel yet? No, I’m still processing. I am pretty stressed at the moment and a bit out of it. I ran out of medication and had a PTSD episode. I should be able should get some more later today though.

As for Anita re-appearing on your thread, I must say I don’t see it the way you do:

I understand that Anita is trying in her own way. I learned to acknowledge in conflict when someone is trying, not just when someone handles a situation perfectly.

However, I don’t want to push my opinion on you. We can talk about it later…

P.S. I see that Anita’s just posted on this thread…

Dear Alessa,

you’re very welcome!

That is why I tried to help explain things with you. I’m sorry that the explanation and the apologies didn’t help.

Yes, I remember you explaining what I meant to say to Anita, after my first “problematic” post (on radical acceptance), and then later too, after I spoke out regarding unfair accusations. You sort of “defended” me and tried to explain why I said what I said, because I assume you felt very uncomfortable about the growing conflict and wanted things to calm down, right?

Verbal abuse is just as damaging as any other kind of abuse. It weaves its way into the mind. You are a good person Tee.

Yeah it is, it might be more insidious and difficult for the child to spot. And a part of me did believe my mother when she said those things.

Still, the abuse you went through is horrendous and I can imagine it impacted you in significant ways. But luckily, you’re healing now and becoming stronger and more compassionate every day <3

Although, I meant that I learned to stay calm in the moment by being emotionally vulnerable. I used to be afraid of vulnerability during conflict with my mother because she would be encouraged to abuse me more. With others, I was afraid of being rejected. Ironically, I often shut down emotionally when I felt rejected. One day I realised that there is nothing to fear because I have already been rejected. The vulnerability helps me to connect to empathy in the moment.

Aah I see! Yeah, being vulnerable (open and honest about our feelings) with the abuser is often an invitation for more abuse. I’ve learned that too. And indeed, people usually brace themselves during conflict and are in the defense mode (fight-or-flight). In that mode, empathy is not really switched on, and the reptilian brain leads the show.

What you’re saying is that you try to stay connected to your vulnerability, i.e. have empathy both for yourself and for the person you’re having a disagreement with, right? You show understanding for the other person (or for everyone involved in the conflict), and try to see everyone’s perspective, keeping an open heart towards everyone, rather than closing your heart.

To me, it seems like I was instantly cast aside simply for having a different perspective.
Also, I set a boundary that was actively rejected.

Yes, I remember that. Anita refused to talk to you, i.e. talk about what’s bothering her, and requested that no one post in her thread. But then she continued “journaling” and speaking badly about both of us in her journal. And she refused to stop, even after you asked her to. That was pretty painful to witness.

Anita might be under the false impression that we got what we wanted. But we didn’t want this. We wished that she was able to understand where we were coming from and for it not to get to this point. Her doing something because a moderator told her to is not the same thing as respecting our boundaries. She is honouring a boundary set by Lori, not with me.

Yeah, I know… Well, I’ve got to say that I was rather surprised, and honestly, a bit upset when I saw Anita posted in your thread this morning, expressing empathy and compassion for the suffering you went through as a child, however without saying a word about the past conflict, or offering an apology.

To me, that’s not how you repair a relationship. You cannot just pretend that nothing happened and walk in as if no harm was done previously. You cannot continue business-as-usual without acknowledging and taking responsibility for your past actions. Because that in itself can feel like abuse.