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TeeParticipantHi Adam,
I do feel as the finishing piece would be to have a loving long term partner who understands me. I have been successful in a lot of other ways and completed lots of goals of mine already at a reasonable age. Ever since I was young I’ve longed for a real partner.
Right, I see. Yeah, love and career are two major parts of our life. You’ve got your career sorted out, you say you’ve achieved many of your goals. And now you’d like to find a loving partner, someone to settle down and share your life with.
It’s interesting you’ve been longing for a real partner since you were young. Have you felt alone a lot in your childhood? You don’t have to answer, but I think it could be significant. You also say gaming was your “escape” (both in your childhood and now). Escape from what, if you don’t mind me asking?
I don’t feel like I’ve been a spontaneous person at all, I’m a lot more about planning and calculating
Planning is not a bad feature at all. It’s very necessary if we want to achieve goals. And you have achieved a lot of your goals. You’ve also earned enough money to buy a house. All excellent things.
As for spontaneity, I look at it like a season that adds flavor to your meal. For example, you plan a great trip and prepare for every eventuality, but then once you’re at the location, you allow yourself to enjoy, perhaps explore some hidden paths and new vistas, decide on a whim to visit a secret bay… in short, you’re in the moment and enjoying it. So I think the combination of planning and preparing on one hand, and being able to be in the moment and enjoy – is the “winning combination”.
So perhaps the question is: once you’ve reached your goal (either a tourist goal or in terms of your career), can you relax and enjoy it? Or you’re already thinking of the next goal and calculating how to get there?
I am a landscaper by trade so I enjoy the outdoors and gardening. We did lots of terrariums and indoor planting together which was really fun to do as a couple so I will continue do so myself.
That sounds like something that sparked joy in you. It might be a passion worth exploring? It’s a good idea to continue doing on your own and see how you like it…
I think her passion for her craft really intrigued me. She was into crystals, chakras etc and I never have been a spiritual person like that. I found it interesting but not convincing. I think this was also a big difference for her. She read into a lot of things because of her knowledge on chakras etc and I think this is where comments like “your body is rejecting mine” came from. In saying that I admired how much she really enjoyed making necklaces etc.
Yeah, you said she spent hours and hours, till deep into the night, making those necklaces. That’s probably when she was “in the flow” – completely consumed by what she was doing, enjoying every moment of it, and feeling like the time has stopped. Do you have some activity like that, where you forget about time and you “lose yourself” while doing it?
As for her spirituality, it could have been a double-edged sword, because it might have led her to try to heal on her own, without professional help. Whereas for trauma survivors (specially if it was sexual trauma), it is super important to get proper therapy. Not necessarily CBT but somatic therapies. Because I believe you can’t heal trauma just by using crystals and chakra healing.
So it was wrong of me to push her? Or it was wrong of me to expect that pushing her would start the change?
Okay I do understand what you are saying. I expected her to change and thought my efforts would make it happen?The last one is the closest: “I expected her to change and thought my efforts would make it happen.” Yes, you wanted her to be a more stable person, with some adult goals, that are compatible with your goals. So you definitely wanted to see her changed. But she wasn’t showing any willingness to change. Or perhaps she didn’t want to change in the way you wanted her to.
And then your mistake was to push her and expect things of her. Later you stopped pushing openly, but you were still hoping that with enough patience and understanding on your side, she would start changing. Your intention and vision for her was to see her changed, and you got fixated on it. Whereas the healthy response would have been to let her go.
I am slowly realizing it wasn’t my destiny and I think I always knew this. I think if she stuck around and didn’t leave so much I would’ve felt more destined with her. I think if someone pushes through those tough times with me and shows me they can change and want too then I get that destined feeling. However I’ve never had that, only glimpses with her.
Yeah, her reflex reaction (and perhaps a manipulation tactic) was to leave whenever she didn’t like something. But again, your insisting that she should change (and staying with her) while she didn’t want to change – that was the problem.
I ended up telling her she was getting blocked just out of courtesy but i don’t think she really cared. However I told her she can reach out in the future if she wants to share stories one day. I don’t think she will but I will be in a better spot by then.
Good that you blocked her! When you told her she can reach out in the future, do you mean by email? Or that you’ll unblock her after some time?
It gets me thinking about my past exes and relationships. I always have a soft spot for my past women it’s almost a comfort thing.
Have you stayed friends with your exes?
One of the things that really stuck with me is how she said we are morally different. For example Her morals would be to drop everything to be there for me. Yet she wasn’t. She claimed it was bare minimum because she wants me and needs me and that I should also want to be there for her.
You said it was always one-sided: you were supposed to drop everything for her and also to have understanding for her feelings and her mood swings. But she didn’t understand your feelings – you weren’t supposed to talk about it. As you said, it was a double standard. It was all about her and her needs. Whenever you expressed your needs, you were blamed for it.
Another bare minimum for me was fighting for what you want and she never did that. The fact that it was always me fighting, writing poems, letters, offering comfort and never receiving any from her should’ve been my wake up call and it almost is now. I deserve someone who would’ve done the same for me as I did for them.
Yes, the relationship was one-sided: you invested all this energy in her, and it was never enough. She was just taking and demanding even more.
A relationship shouldn’t be so unbalanced and one-sided. So that should be your big clue for the future.
May 22, 2023 at 8:50 am in reply to: Understanding someone who's recently divorced and not ready #419075
TeeParticipantDear Dafne,
I am fine, thank you. I do have some health issues, but I am managing, so it’s okay.
You’ve been so helpful again! I really like your suggestions for the vision of a dream man and also the example text you created
I am happy it helped you! Have you perhaps written your own version of your “dream man”?
Tee, you were right about this last man. Unfortunately, it got even worst than I expected. I’ve sent him the text 3 days ago and till now he did not reply at all! (left me on seen).
Sorry about that, Dafne. Sadly, I knew it would most likely turn out like that. He really isn’t interested in more than sex, that’s why he is not replying.
I can’t believe it. I’m not even worth a simple reply.
Oh you are so worth it! Only he is an inconsiderate, selfish man.
All the promises written in the sand. I was so wrong about him. I thought he is suffering after his divorce and needs time. Now I can see that he has not even the smallest decency to be a man and reply.
Yeah, I think he actually doesn’t know how to say it politely that he isn’t interested in going out with you and dating you properly. That’s why it’s easier for him to stay silent. He believes you’ll figure it out from his silence that he isn’t willing to give you what you’re hoping for…
As for his promises, it was just something he said to make you come to his place. Remember he said he’s only willing to go to the exhibition with you if you first come to his place. So all those “promises” served one goal: to get you to sleep with him.
My friend suggested to give him a final call in few days to have a closure but I’m not sure if asking for reasons over the phone is a good idea? Also meeting him at his workplace might seem like too much.
I don’t think calling him is necessary. If he picks up, he’ll probably try to manipulate you once again to come to his place. You don’t need to know his reasons – what you need to know is that he isn’t willing to have a serious relationship with you. That’s all you need to know. And he was very clear about that. And yes, if you go see him at his work place, he might view it as too intrusive (and it is, in fact). So no, please don’t contact him, don’t ask for explanations, don’t seek him out. Let him go.
Also, my friend found his profile on the dating site so I guess he is busy with other women. I believe that they are more easy going & carefree than me so it makes him more interested
Yes, he is seeking women who are more willing to have casual sex with him.
He told me that he is not looking for anything serious but on the webpage it says that he is not sure yet. Might be a way to attract more women?
Yes, that’s a bait. It’s rare that a woman would want to get involved with someone who from the get-go tells her he only wants her for sex. By being vague about it, he is increasing his chances to meet someone who would give him what he wants.
Maybe the sexual compatibility is more important to him than getting to know someone as a person first. Maybe that’s how the relationships start nowadays and I was not aware of it.
I don’t think sexual compatibility is what he is interested in, unless he is into kinky stuff, which he would have indicated on his profile. He is interested in plain old sex (sorry to be so blunt about it), i.e. in a woman who is willing to give it to him. That’s all. No mystery there.
And no, relationships shouldn’t start with checking each other’s sexual compatibility, because I believe that if two people love and care for each other, sex will come naturally. In other words, there is a high probability that they will be sexually compatible. It is the personalities that need to be compatible first and foremost.
Tee, how is it that some women go easily for casual sex and it turns into a committed relationship? And women who wait with sex are ghosted in the end?
Maybe they don’t go for casual sex, but fall in love and have sex pretty early on. And if they’re lucky, it’s a good guy and things progress into a committed relationship. I think it’s not that frequent that a woman is “cool” about having casual sex and doesn’t develop feelings. There are some women like that, but they are not the majority.
As for women who wait with sex, it depends how long one wants to wait. If she wants to wait till marriage – it has to be consensual. She has to communicate it with her partner. But if she wants to wait for a few months, or whatever time she needs to properly get to know the guy – that’s not an unreasonable expectation.
I think the worst is if the woman feels pressured to have sex, even though she isn’t ready for it and doesn’t want it. If you feel pressured by the guy or modern societal “norms”, and your heart isn’t in it, you shouldn’t do it.
Is there any way to know when is the best moment to start being physical with a man (and avoid being ghosted)? Some coaches say that it is not about sex on the 1 or 2 date but the emotional attraction you created before it happened. But how is it that those women create the bond so fast?
I agree that emotional bond is important. As I said above, what happens frequently is that the woman falls in love and is eager to enter sexual relationship too. If the woman is relatively emotionally healthy and can recognize a good guy, then chances are she won’t be disappointed and things will turn out just fine.
But if the woman has issues (e.g. emotional wounds), she might be attracted to problematic guys. So she falls in love with the guy, enters a sexual relationship with him and is eager about him, believing that he is “the one”. But the guy is actually trouble and doesn’t feel the same about her. Maybe the guy is just using her, or isn’t emotionally available and cannot really give her the love she is longing for. But she is in love with him and suffering…
What I am trying to say is that a lot of times when you think that someone created an “emotional bond” very fast, it can be that this emotional bond is one-sided, where only the woman has deep feelings and hopes for a long-term, committed relationship. While the guy is not that enthusiastic at all and sees the relationship more casually. (Of course, this can be vice versa: in some cases, the guy is the one with a deeper attachment, while the woman is flaky and avoidant). Real love requires two-sided emotional bond…
It is all a big mystery to me…
Yeah, there are no hard and fast rules. The best advice I can give you is to work on your healing, so you can recognize a good, decent guy, whose goals are compatible with yours. The more you respect yourself, the less likely it is that you’d tolerate lesser treatment and men trying to take advantage of you.
I regret that I let him be more than a friend. I was hoping that it might change something between us but it didn’t.
Be satisfied with yourself that you didn’t fall for his manipulation and slept with him. You weren’t really friends either – as he wasn’t interested to get to know you as a person. So the little that happened between the two of you cannot break your heart because you wisely decided not to give yourself to this guy. You decided well!
TeeParticipantHi Adam,
I am struggling to not beautify the relationship. I know it was quite toxic, manipulative and controlling. But I just have that feeling within me that I could’ve made anything work with this person. Almost as if it’s meant to be for a reason and we will reconnect.
I know how hard it is to let go when we believe we’re meant to be with someone. That’s the worst. I’ve experienced it myself once and it was devastating. But I’ve learned since that my strong attachment to this person came from my own unmet needs. I believed this person possessed some qualities that I don’t, and that together we can complement each other. And that this will help me fulfill my “mission” in life. So I saw this person as a prerequisite for me fulfilling my mission. And I believed that without them, I would fail. That’s what made it so hard to let go of them, and felt like the end of the world.
So I believe that in the large majority of cases when we feel a strong attachment and believe the relationships is “destined”, it’s actually our deepest longings and fears that drive us. In short, we believe we need this person to be happy and fulfilled. And that without them, there is no way we can be that. That’s what I think is behind the intense longing. But of course, it’s not true. It’s a false belief.
And perhaps for you, this “something” you believe you won’t have without her, and that you’re desperately missing, is spontaneity, playfulness and passion:
I admire those things a lot and do feel like sometimes I am not spontaneous in particular.
I think I look for childishness and spontaneity in a partner as it it something I feel I lack when I’m single and alone.
I adored how she had a real love for her passion.
It could be that somewhere along the way, you lost (or rather, suppressed) those qualities, which are inherent in every child. I noticed you said gaming was the only thing you did as a child:
I think gaming has something to do with my inner child as it’s all I did as a kid.
Would you like to say a bit more about this? Does it mean you haven’t spent much time with your parents, doing fun stuff, but were mostly at home, at your computer? If so, I can see how this is not very conducive to a child developing their passion and interests.
So respect my needs and boundaries. Maintain a degree of freedom. Don’t try rescue. Don’t allow blaming and guilt tripping. Be warned by double standards. Is that a decent summary of the lessons?
Yes, that’s an excellent summary – straight to the point! 🙂
I’m not sure of this third lesson. I feel like I did accept her for who she was. I understood her trauma, mental issues and needs to the best of my ability. It was almost as though she didn’t accept me. Do you mean don’t get into a relationship with someone who isn’t healed fully. I’m not sure if she was even trying to actually heal, I think she wanted too but was actually bottling it all up.
Well, you’ve been nudging her to get a job, seek therapy, get her life in order. You were not wrong for expecting those things from your partner. However, you were wrong in pushing her to become a good enough partner for you – because she wasn’t able to and didn’t show any interest in healing. So you got fixated on her and changing her (or waiting till she decides to change).
That was a wrong approach. You should have realized that you can’t change a person if they don’t want to change. And also, that it’s unhealthy to stay with someone who is abusive and doesn’t meet some basic requirements of what you consider a good partner.
So, to summarize: your desire to have a relatively healthy and stable partner, who isn’t suffering from major trauma, is a legitimate one. However, your attempts to make her into that healthy and stable partner (or the expectation that she would make herself into that partner) was mistaken.
I don’t know if I’ve actually learned these lessons yet and I’m worried I may not.
It could be, because the heart’s longing overwrites what we rationally know. Desire is a potent force. But as I said above, this desire is born out of our own wounds and false beliefs. If you believe she is your destiny, it will be incredibly hard to let go.
Last time we split up she got very emotional 3 weeks later when she realized I was still caring. I am so tempted to show her that I still am but I think it’s just a lost cause… I don’t know why I still do and why I still would want this person even after everything we have spoken about I still feel a strong connection.
Again, I think the explanation is like the one I mentioned above: strong desire born out of your unmet needs and false beliefs. I can tell you that I too had a hard time blocking that person whom I thought I was destined to be with. It was like letting go of something so true and precious… And I was so totally wrong!
So I encourage you to stay strong and not reach out, and to actually unfollow her (if you can’t block her). Because like this, you’re staying connected with her, like with an umbilical cord, and it makes it so much harder for you to start healing.
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I don’t want to scare him away, maybe telling him something like i feel he has been distant lately and I’m gonna give him some and that he can always reach out to me
Well, if you phrase it like that, you’re assuming that he wants a time out, and you are giving it to him, and kind of pretending to be cool about it. Neither of this is true. First, you don’t know what his intentions are, and second, you are totally not cool about giving him a time out. Instead, you are very anxious about his potential leaving.
So instead of playing the “cool girl”, I’d talk to him and express my feelings. But as I said, without attacking him. This is called non-violent communication: you speak in the “I” form. For example, “I feel hurt when you don’t discuss important things with me”. Instead of “You’re being so cold and distant lately and aren’t telling me anything”.
Or you can say something like “I feel sad because I feel that you’ve been distant lately”. So you express your feeling and tie it to his behavior, but you don’t attack him for this behavior.
How does that sound?
TeeParticipantHi Adam,
Yes doing it alone didn’t help her I think. It put more pressure on me as well to always be there. She didn’t have many friends, her best friend ghosted her a lot and ditched plans. I think this again put more weight on me as I was expected to be there for her when a friend wasn’t despite what’s happening in my life.
I see… so you were the only reliable person in her life, and she relied on you for everything. Not just to regulate her moods but also to spend time with her, whenever she was idling or her friend ghosted her or cancelled their plans.
It was a terrible experience but it was also one where I learned valuable lessons. But I can’t actually think of these lessons I learned right now. Could you help me with writing some of these down? I guess one lesson I learned is I think to be firm, honest and stand my ground regardless of how the other person is feeling or being scared of triggering them.
Yes, I think that’s one lesson you’ve learned: to respect your own needs and not to overwrite them just because someone is expecting it from you or guilt tripping you about it. So, respect your own needs and boundaries.
Second, beware if the person is possessive and expects that everything in your life revolves around them. This also means that you can’t have hobbies and interests of your own, you can’t do what you enjoy, unless you get permission from the other person. So if you can’t maintain a degree of freedom – that’s a warning sign.
Third and perhaps the most important lesson is not to get involved with someone whom you can’t accept as they are, e.g. with someone who is suffering from depression, anxiety, or addiction, which you expect they will heal from, but aren’t there yet. Don’t get involved with someone with major trauma, whom you then try to “rescue” and “help heal”. If you can’t accept your partner as they are and feel they should heal first in order to function normally – don’t get involved with them.
Fourth, if the person is blaming you and doesn’t want to take responsibility for their own moods, behaviors and life situation – that’s toxic. Don’t allow blame and guilt tripping. Be open to feedback though and willing to correct your own mistakes, but if the only thing you get is blame, that’s not healthy.
Fifth, if the person is telling you one thing but doing the opposite, beware of that. If they give you promises, but with their actions they don’t honor those promises, that’s a warning sign too.
These five lessons is what comes to mind so far. What do you think? Is that something you think you’ve learned?
She definitely did seem more laid back in the beginning. Almost like she was expecting more and more as time went on.
You actually said she was smoking pot when you two met, so perhaps that’s one of the reasons she seemed more laid back? But then she stopped smoking, pretty quickly you said, possibly because she had you as her “mood regulator”? And then her traumatized self began to come out more and more, with more and more demands, frequent breakups, trying to control you etc.
I remember her asking about moving in with me I said not at first but she would still be over a lot, about 6 days. She got very upset. However when I moved out she didn’t want to spend more time together it seemed. She would go home and start arguments about how we don’t spend quality time and other things. However I was always open to doing different things which we did early on. As time went on it got stale and I don’t think she was enjoying life in general so she didn’t want to do anything it seemed like at times.
I am not sure I understood this right: are you saying she got upset when you didn’t let her move in with you? Although you were spending a lot of time together, 6 days in a week. So whenever she would go home, she was complaining that you’re not spending quality time together, and she refused to go to trips together like you did in the beginning. If this is what was happening, it seems she was punishing you for not letting her move in, and so she refused to do stuff together. Instead, she was complaining a lot and guilt tripping you most of the time.
It could also be that her quitting her medication played a role too, and so she became more and more agitated and unable to control her moods. And she mostly took it out on you – so you became her punching bag, as you said.
She had a lot of qualities I admired. She was very Loving at times, spontaneous, had interesting hobbies. Just to name a few. I almost liked how she had highs and lows to a certain degree. I feel when I am my normal best self I am just in the middle ground. Just balanced. I was very comfortable around her at times.
I guess she actually fun and she got me out doing different things. We went camping a lot which I hadn’t done since I was a kid. She was very crafty and made necklaces, collected shells which we would do together. She was a bit childish which I liked and I think she brought out my inner child. Maybe that’s what I liked about her and what I’m attached too.
Yes, this seems like a theme: you admiring her playfulness, spontaneity, childlike nature and passion for things. You told me you don’t know what your passions are… So it could be that you suppressed some of your inner child, and you mostly feel “balanced”. But perhaps this “balanced” is also a bit dull – like not really passionate or excited about anything?
You said you are focused on your job and house, i.e. that you’re working hard, which enabled you to buy a house, right? That’s very admirable and a totally valid goal to pursue. However, maybe in striving for success and being a successful adult, perhaps you forgot to play and enjoy things along the way? Maybe you somewhat suppressed your playful, spontaneous and passionate inner child?
Anyway, this is just an idea…. Let me know if it resonates?
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I am so sorry you’re hurting. What do you think of my suggestion to talk to him and express how you’re feeling, instead of bottling it all up?
It’s good you’ve applied for therapy, and also that you’re planning to go home, to have a break from everything.
Especially since everybody knows about us at work, and now i feel put on the spot, because they are asking me about him.
You can tell them he is not coming to London after all and goes straight to Portugal, due to his job. You don’t need to tell more details, if you don’t want to. Perhaps you can confide in people you trust a little more, like X and Y?
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
He didn’t give me any explanation. Just a no I’ll be going straight to Portugal. To me that’s a break up.
Well yes, if he doesn’t give any explanations and just kind of informs you about his decision, that’s cold. It’s not what someone who cares would do.
I think the best would be to talk to him. Tell him what you told me: that you feel hurt when he changes plans without discussing it with you and just informs you about it. Tell him that this makes you believe he doesn’t care about you and that you’re not important to him any more. Be honest and express your feelings, without attacking him. And see what he has to say.
So my advice is to try communicating with him before calling it quits, because no relationship can succeed without communication. So I’d give him a chance to clarify what he feels and what his intentions are about you.
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I am really sorry about that. Does it mean his company changed their plans and are not opening properties in London or delaying the whole project?
I can’t believe this is happening. He broke his promise to me.
I understand your disappointment. But wasn’t his coming to London dependent on whether the company needs him there or not? It seems he is on a pretty tight leash there and doesn’t have time to swing by London before going to Portugal.
He kept promesing me that he would tell me if things changed, but he never did
Do you think it means he doesn’t care about you? Or it’s just that he is unable to ask for anything for himself and just does what the company dictates?
I’m so confused. I don’t what i do to deserve this
You haven’t done anything wrong! It’s the circumstances that are doing this… The way I see it, the main question is whether he still cares about you and is interested in a relationship with you. If his feelings haven’t changed, then you can talk about things and see what your options are.
Are you still going to Portugal for his birthday? I wouldn’t cancel it, if his feelings haven’t changed and he wants to see you. But if he is indifferent or insecure, that’s another story. I hope his feelings haven’t changed, but just that his priority at this point is to secure the job with this company.
I think the key at this point is: 1) how he feels about you and 2) whether he is willing to do the minimum to spend some time with you. If he isn’t willing to invest even a day or two to be with you in Portugal, it would mean you’re not that important to him. But if he is keen to see you and can ensure 2 days off, that would show that he cares and that he is willing to “fight” for you, i.e. ask for 2 days off in spite of his fear of what the company might say.
TeeParticipantDear David,
you are most welcome! I am glad this confirmed your decision and gave you a peace of mind 🙂
Wishing you good luck with wedding preparations and every happiness in your future marriage!
TeeParticipantHi Adam,
I’ve seen your second post only after I’ve submitted mine.
I am happy to hear that you’re analyzing your relationship from a more rational, objective perspective, without being swept by emotions.
I think I am finding it difficult with attachment because as an individual she definitely had certain things I liked in terms of a partner.
What are the qualities she had that you cherish in a partner?
The other things making it difficult is knowing I actually did try everything. I changed a lot, I wrote letter, poems, supported her, did things she liked, reasoned with her and put lots of effort in. I am also proud of this just knowing how much I can do for someone is a good feeling. It’s also nice knowing that’s how I am as a person.
Great! So you are reframing this experience not as a failure (“I did everything, but nothing helped”), but as a proof of how good and caring partner you are. That’s the right attitude!
Lastly it just feels bad realizing that she didn’t love me the same way I did to her. But that’s okay because I know I will receive the same love one day.
Also a great attitude! You’re realizing it’s not your fault that she didn’t love you enough, but it’s her own limitations.
I remember one time I picked a movie that was about child abuse in a church. She freaked out straight away and asked me if that’s what I’m into and why I would be interested in a movie like that. So she was basically accusing me of being a pedophile or atleast had thoughts of it because I chose a movie based on the topic.
If she was sexually abused, it would have been triggering for her. But accusing you of being a pedophile is definitely an overreaction and not fair.
Anyway I just thought I would post again to get some stuff off my chest. I’m writing down goals in my notes and I have a good list so far!
Fantastic! I am glad you’re looking towards the future. Just keep posting and sharing here, for as long as you need…
TeeParticipantHi Adam,
I am glad you resonated with that description of your relationship, and that it puts things into perspective. I do believe it is close to the truth.
No she wasn’t enjoying life at all she was in a terrible spot and it affecting the whole relationship.
Yes, so by quitting her medication and choosing the “do it yourself” route, she actually made things worse. I can imagine that doing it alone, without professional help, rarely works out. It’s a pity that she didn’t want to see that and is most likely delaying her healing.
I am still processing it and realizing that it’s actually over for the best. I can feel small improvements slowly coming. I daydream not as much as last time we split.
I am glad you can actually think of this breakup as something not so terrible, and that you’re daydreaming less than the last time. Try to stay anchored in your rational self, who can see the reality. If you start drifting into daydreaming, you can pull up that list of grievances, to serve as a metaphorical splash of cold water on your face. (You may even splash your face with cold water for real, if you think it would help you stay real and not drift away into fantasy).
She did allow me to feel the deepest feelings I’ve had in my life. When it comes to a romantic partner atleast. I am proud of myself for how good of a lover and partner I was even if we didn’t always see eye to eye.
Good! Please don’t forget that you did your best and are not responsible for how it ended.
Maybe it does have something to do with being able to fully feel. Like I said earlier it was the most I’ve ever felt. I really was on cloud nine at times.
When we feel a very strong longing and attraction for someone, it’s often because they fill a hole in our being, they possess something we believe we don’t, and we believe this “something” will make us complete. So perhaps she had a quality you admired and believed you yourself don’t possess?
You wrote that you previous girlfriends were not as laid back, and that you had to walk on egg shells around them. (I probably wasn’t very considerate during my first couple relationships. They would definitely frustrate me a lot with their own problems which is harsh to say. …. I did feel like I was stepping on eggshells with them. They were not as laid back). It turned out that this girl made you walk on egg shells too, eventually. But perhaps in the beginning she seemed more laid back?
TeeParticipantHi Adam,
you’re welcome!
I almost feel like I’m chasing a high and I would go through those lows just for that high again.
Yes, she had an effect on you like a drug – caused you to feel high at times, but was destructive for you on the long run. Staying with her was ruining your life.
You spoke about being down and daydreaming earlier, I spoke to my psych about a similar thing. I almost enjoy that feeling a bit as it is real pain and it not something I always experience. It’s like I force my mind to really feel the emotions and dig deep to bring it all up at times like this
Okay, so are you saying that without her, you would feel flat, you wouldn’t really feel all that much? And so being on a roller-coaster with her, with emotional ups and downs, is still better for you than feeling dull? Being with her allows you to feel deeply?
I was thinking today how the relationship changed overtime and how it got worse after each break up. It’s like I was punished for being comfortable around her and towards the end I wasn’t comfortable but I still didn’t want to loose her at any time during our relationship.
You were punished for being honest with her, for telling her what you think she should change. She didn’t want to be told what she is doing wrong, or how she is hurting you. You were punished for that honesty, for speaking your mind.
People don’t know what they have until they loose it, I think is the quote. I feel like I knew what I had and that I could loose it very easily.
Well, what you had was a girl with untreated mental health issues. She stopped taking medicine and thought she could manage on her own, but she couldn’t. It resulted in those “horrible moods”, as you called it.
As for knowing you could lose her – well yes, you knew you could lose her easily because she was breaking up with you frequently. She used that to control you.
So you had a girl with untreated mental health issues, who basically blamed you for being upset about her moods, and wanted you to stay silent. And she managed.
That’s the reality of your relationship, Adam. If I may be honest with you: you didn’t have much, and you didn’t want to lose the little that you had.
Considering what some of my friends have said do you think it will come to a point where I am just holding onto nothing and talking about it too much?
Well, you do see it in a distorted way, through rose-colored glasses. You believe you had a lot, whereas in reality, you didn’t. You didn’t lose much either, because if you read the above list, there was a lot of abuse in your relationship. You were getting only bread crumbs. But you were sticking to fantasy of how it might be some day, when she is healed.
She wanted to enjoy life without being medicated as she felt it would disconnect her a bit, I think that was her main reason so I was supportive of that. I understood.
But was she enjoying life? As far as I understood, she was as miserable as ever, frequently getting into those moods, accusing you of not being supportive enough. That’s not a good life, but suffering, both for her and for you.
Everyone is telling me she will grow and mature then come to notice how committed and caring you really were. I think this in itself gives me hope and causes wishful thinking.
I think people try to console you and so they say whatever they think might make you feel better. But telling you that she will grow and mature and you then can be happy together is feeding into your fantasy. It’s not helpful at all.
First, it’s not true because we don’t know if she will grow and mature – she might spend many years trying to “heal herself” but not getting anywhere. You don’t want to keep fantasizing about a day when she will finally get better. You don’t want to make your happiness dependent on her – because that’s what you have been doing all this time, and this is the result. You don’t want to put your life on pause, waiting for her to get better.
I told her myself I would do it all over again.
And that’s a problem. That you would be willing to do it again, knowing how hurt you were this time round.
Don’t get me wrong – I do understand you, Adam. I know how emotional wounds can make us blind and can make us work against our best interests. I know how bad we may want something that is bad for us, believing it will make us happy.
But I think you’d need to work on the reasons of this attachment, this sticking to fantasy, rather than accepting reality. You said you felt alive while on an emotional roller coaster with her, so perhaps that’s something to look into? Perhaps sometimes you feel numb and out of touch with your feelings, and being with her allowed you to feel fully?
TeeParticipantHi Adam,
I think if she reached out anytime soon I would have a discussion with her about why we can’t.
Good! She might actually reach out, since so far you always wanted her back. But it’s great if you feel strong enough to tell her no now.
What do you think if she reaches out in the distant future? That is a worry of mine. I feel as I would still have some attachment years from now.
Hm… I wouldn’t worry about that right now. You don’t know what the future holds. I think the most important at this point is for you to learn your lessons from this experience: to be less vulnerable to emotional abuse and more able to recognize it if it starts happening in a potential new relationship.
I hope you can move on from this and find yourself again. And be less prone to being manipulated and silenced like this. If you focus on that, you’ll grow as a person, and you’ll know what to do if she ever reaches out. As a general advice, if she isn’t in therapy (or stable mentally) and doesn’t have a job, she hasn’t move forward with her healing. And she would be in the same place, or worse, as now.
But don’t linger on that possibility too much, because that’s again fantasizing about some future situation, where things might be better and where you might rekindle your relationship. Which is a part of that same daydreaming and clinging – which you need to heal!
I never even had a thought of emotional abuse in my life until the week before the break up. I think I was experiencing it more and more as time went on. I felt like at the start when she was working and on her correct medication that the relationship was a lot better
It’s quite possible that she was feeling better when she was on medication. But then something prompted her to try to wean off on her own, without going to therapy, which was a very unhealthy move. And it took a toll…
But come to think of it we had break ups every 2 months. Either way we were splitting up but maybe it wasn’t until later when I actually experienced the manipulation etc.
Or perhaps you became more sensitive to it, more able to recognize it? If I remember well, after the last breakup you didn’t feel like you were walking on egg shells around her. But now, in this last period, it became quite obvious to you. So perhaps you were deluding yourself and had a blind spot, which prevented you from noticing certain things? And at the same time, she probably got more and more demanding, and you more and more “obeying”, not to upset her.
I know how to treat myself right and focus on myself it will come to me again soon enough. I have support for when I’m lonely and daydreaming. I am obviously upset but overall I’m coping. Still a bit of a shock to the system in saying that even after so many times.
I am glad you have support, both of your friends and family, and that you know how to treat yourself well. Yes, you are doing the right steps! You can’t just expect to heal over night, it will take time. So be patient with yourself, but whatever you do, don’t allow to go too deep into daydreaming and beautifying the times when you were together.
I will start writing some stuff down myself but any help would be greatly appreciated!
Here it is, the list of “grievances” that you expressed about her. I did minimal edits, to make it as succinct as possible:
- Really did feel like it was all about her. A remote control car was a perfect analogy. She really did control everything including how I felt.
- I felt as if I couldn’t be myself and do what I want to do. She needed a caregiver 247 and when I wasn’t there for her it was again signs of me not loving her enough and her not getting what she was wanting.
- I feel quite attacked. My side was never considered and she would selfishly use me as a punching bag for her irrational behavior.
- I felt I was trapped and walking on egg shells, any word or action could set her off and cause me anxiety about what’s around the corner.
- It wasn’t a relationship that I wanted but I did tell myself and I push past this and deal with all the bad despite how it made me feel.
- The whole situation sucks. I’ve just woken up to what was happening and I also got over trying to fill a bottomless pit with my love.
- I lost myself in the process.
- I started seeing the signs of emotional abuse last week. This was definitely what I was experience as well as manipulation.
- I feel violated and taken advantage of.
- I was constantly told I wasn’t listening to her or understanding her needs. Yet I understood fully, however she didn’t understand mine.
- She would accuse me of not having my priorities right, expecting that she should be number 1 before anything else.
- I felt so trapped and alone the day before she left me. It’s because I was in the end.
- I was suffering in silence because of her mental instability.
- I felt as I couldn’t speak in fear of upsetting her or just being straight up rejected.
- I was relying on her for happiness in a lot of cases but I slowly started to feel alone towards the end.
- I lost myself trying to help her.
- I couldn’t constantly be responsible for how she was feeling. I never made her responsible for my feelings.
- It’s a shock to the system realizing I was being abused and manipulated a lot of the time.
- I felt the less I’d upset her the more I would be anxious on walking on egg shells. But when I spoke up I felt I was shut down and told I wasn’t listening to her.
- She took everything I said about her as an attack. All my comments about her getting work, her attitude etc were always taken personally and I was told not to bring it up. She use to say things along the lines of ‘I shouldn’t feel bad for feeling a certain way‘ , yet when I would say something similar it was unfair in her eyes. It was always a double standard.
- She didn’t want to change. She wanted to relationship to work around her and accommodate to her needs and wants.
- I am going to move on because that’s not what I want from a partner in the end. A relationship shouldn’t be that difficult. It was super toxic.
- She definitely used the break ups as a way to control me, whether she knew it or not. She knew I was readily available when she wanted.
- There was so many things, mostly innocent that triggered her. Whenever there was a disagreement her first reaction was to leave and it almost seemed like a power move to keep me on my toes.
- No time was any different, it honestly just got worse and spiraled out of control. All the false promises, still no work, still left, still unstable and the list goes on. Those few things should’ve been enough for me to leave.
- Leaving would’ve been a healthy reaction in the first place. It was all just a fantasy and in reality she was not good for me.
- I was trapped and got brought down by her disgusting moods.
- She blamed me for a lot. Made me feel worthless and like I was doing something wrong but it was her just taking anger out on me.
- She wanted me to know that I can’t pick and choose when I see her. I stopped asking for my own time after that.
I hope it will help you stay on track!
As for the childhood stuff, I am glad you had a good childhood and no bad memories. I don’t know why you would be susceptible like that, but there also could be external factors for our issues. It doesn’t necessarily have to do with our parents. You did mention once that you suffer from occasional anxiety, so perhaps there is something there to look at.
Anyway, I wish you slow but steady progress and healing with his. Take care of yourself, be gentle on yourself. Post anytime!
TeeParticipantHi SereneWolf,
Hmm I see. Have you a found new doctor?
I am on the lookout for other healing modalities, since the pain is fluctuating, it always comes back. So I need to find something that will give me a more lasting relief.
But lately I feel like not doing anything, hopeless and I’m missing my cat too!
I am sorry about that. It could be that the loss of your cat leads you to feeling more sensitive and down. And this can contribute to resorting to self-soothing tools, such as overeating. Because a lot of us use food to soothe ourselves, specially if the only nurturing we had in childhood was physical nurturing. If instead of being emotionally nurtured, we were given food whenever we were upset, that’s a perfect recipe for developing eating disorders later.
My mum wouldn’t allow me to eat that much late lol because her first question on the phone is always, did you ate?
Seems you mother was similar to mine: mostly interested in your physical nurturance (and physical well-being), but in terms of emotions, not really supportive.
And yeah usually I do eat a lot in the evenings. During the day it’s okay but at evening I always eat a lot.
Yes, that too is typical. I’ve just watched a video on binge eating, which explains that by the evening we have already been exposed to various stressors during the day, and our stress tolerance gets depleted. That’s why we have a greater need to soothe ourselves in the evening. Besides, that’s when most of the people come home from work and have the need to relax and unwind… and so eating too much becomes a part of that ritual.
The title of the video is “How to stop binge eating“, by psychotherapist Kati Morton. She also explains what to do to help ourselves. One of her suggestions, in fact her first suggestion, is the same what you doctor friend told you: to eat at least 3-4 times a day, and to have snacks in between to prevent getting extremely hungry and then overeat.
She has other useful tips too, like not restraining yourself and dieting because that’s only going to produce a counter-effect. Also to observe our inner voice, because the inner critic can get very loud when we overeat, or don’t eat as healthy as we would like to. I know from my own experience that I used to berate myself for my ED, and it was strengthening my inner critic, making me feel very bad about myself. And then I’d need something to soothe myself, and ended up eating again.. so it was a vicious circle.
Yes. After getting back from the trip she said she thought about it a lot and she don’t think getting back together with her ex is a good idea. She did open up with me and told me maybe that idea of being alone is just scary for her and she’s just not used to it. And we talked about how I handled to live all by myself for years…
After that she was like yeah I can try for sometime without being in a relationship.
She seems like a pretty self-observant person, willing to learn and grow. She was honest with you and explored the reasons why she felt like going back to her ex. And she realized that it’s maybe because she is scared of being alone. But now, she’s realized that this is exactly what she needs… So a learning moment for her! I like her 🙂
So did I just spread my disease into her?
Hmmm, yeah, I mean you gave her a different perspective. And maybe she does need to find herself a little more, to become less needy and less craving for attention, for being the center of her partner’s universe. Because she did say things like that, if I remember well. If that’s the case, she’d need to learn how to be more self-sufficient. Which is what you’re an expert in 🙂
You’re right how can I make myself become less triggered? I mean there is boundaries there somewhat. My father doesn’t disrespect me anymore otherwise he knows I’m not going to just listen to him silently.
It’s good that you don’t tolerate his open criticism, so he isn’t even trying any more. I just wanted to ask you if there was a situation where he started criticizing you but you stopped him. But then I remembered that you mentioned that you did challenge him once on the phone and told him that if he cannot talk to you normally, better not talk at all, right? And then he hang up, but then called you back a few days later?
I guess that was his lesson, and he learned that he can’t be openly rude with you. And I can imagine your mother talked to him too and convinced him to speak nicely to you… So I guess he is suppressing his need to judge you, but it’s still there in him, and comes out indirectly, in the form of those veiled remarks and comparisons with other people.
Well, I guess you can’t really change that because as you said, he’s not going to work on himself and suddenly become transformed. So I guess if you want to keep contact with him, you’d need to be like teflon in those occasions and not let it stick.
But for that, you’d need to be judgment-proof. Almost like bullet-proof. You’d need to let those arrows slide from you, like from a shield. Which means that you’d need to have your “armor” on whenever you talk to your father, and not let anything in. What is also super important is to diminish the voice of your inner critic, because your inner critic is like a Trojan horse – he opens the door and lets the arrows hit you. I am using the military analogy again, but perhaps it helps?
Yes you remembered it well, I’m confused about it, because I don’t like when I need external validation, but external validation does kind of helps to believe in things…faster? I don’t know.
It seems to me you’re disregarding the positive input from people, because you want to believe you’re not attractive enough. It’s like the impostor syndrome, when we believe that we cannot possibly be talented, that our success happened by chance and not by our merit. With this too – your inner critic is telling you you’re not good looking (or not muscular enough or whatever), and you rather believe him than the feedback you receive from people.
TeeParticipantHi Adam,
No we are not staying friends. Like you mentioned I was there for her for 11 months straight.
Good you’re not staying friends!
She was only saying things like ‘I’d love to still have you in my life’ but I don’t think she actually meant it. If she did I would be.
I think you shouldn’t agree to stay in her life even if she asks for it. Because it would inevitably lead to getting attached to her again and sucked into the relationship. So please, if she reaches out wanting to be friends, don’t accommodate her. Because you need to focus on yourself in this next phase. You can’t be sucked into caring about her all the time, which inevitably leads to emotional abuse and losing yourself.
She really blamed me for a lot. It hurt to hear her say that in her final message. That she took it out on me because that’s what it really felt like at the time and I was so confused, I tore myself apart because I thought I was overthinking it. Made me feel worthless and like I was doing something wrong but it was her just taking anger out on me.
Yeah, as you said, you ended up being her punching bag. That was clearly emotional abuse – blaming you and not taking responsibility for her own moods and actions.
There was so many things, mostly innocent that triggered her. I wouldn’t even no where to start but whenever there was a disagreement her first reaction was to leave and it almost seemed like a power move to keep me on my toes.
Yes, it seems she was using withdrawal and breakups as a means to control you, to make you more accommodating and more compliant with her needs.
However the next day she told me she only said that to be petty. She wanted me to know that I can’t pick and choose when I see her. I stopped asking for my own time after that.
Wow, that’s really controlling! It’s like saying “your needs don’t matter, I don’t care what you want. It only matters what I want. If I need you, you’ll get here, no discussion about that!” It’s almost like wanting to completely possess you. And you yielded, in fact. You stopped asking anything for yourself…
I was like a parent, partner, caretaker, brother and a friend all in one. It was a full time job and it became so consuming and overwhelming.
Yes, and she wanted to possess you completely, it seems. You were her ownership, not a free person with your own needs and wants.
I am trying to focus on things that make me happy. Work and my house is a big priority for me. At the moment it’s hard to find things that make me happy
I think the reason you don’t know what makes you happy is that you have been completely focused on her for a long time. Did you have hobbies in the past? Did you have things you enjoyed doing?
You say your work and house are a priority for you. Is that something that makes you happy, or it’s more like tasks that need to be tended to?
I’m glad I’m not walking on egg shells anymore. I had this realization last night when I was sitting and home and it just seemed so peaceful. No responsibility with how another person is feeling. No bad moods affecting my mood.
Yes, it’s liberating. Cherish those moments free from emotional abuse. However, it can be that after a while you’ll start feeling bored and down a little bit… Do you have friends you can spend time with on the weekends? Something or someone to help you with those lonely moments that will inevitably creep up after a while?
I felt loved as a child I think as a teenager, especially from girls I didn’t feel loved. More judged. I might have attachment issues because of this, I’m planning to speak to my psych about it too.
So you felt judged by girls, not loved? It’s a bit like with her too – she judged you, you were never good enough.
Have you felt judged, or otherwise not adequate, in your childhood too? For example, have you tried to please your mother, help her the best you can, but she was often frustrated and unhappy about something (not necessarily about you, but about life)?
I am asking because that’s usually how codependency develops: if we are our parent’s helper and they rely on us sometimes even for emotional support. So we become “parentified”, i.e. a little bit like parents to them, which is role reversal. Our needs don’t get met, because we try to meet our parent’s needs. Anyway, I am not claiming anything since I don’t know much about your childhood. Just saying what can be the cause of codependent behavior once we grow up.
Any tips of healing my inner child? It’s been a week now and I’m honestly feeling okay, I’m just digging up all the old things that I kept my mouth shut about. And there is a lot of things I regret not speaking up about but as discussed it wouldn’t have changed anything if I told her.
That’s good that you looking back and revisiting your relationship, and noticing how and when you were poorly treated. Being aware of how we were mistreated is a key step in preventing abuse in the future.
As for the inner child, well, for now I’d suggest to look within. Bring your focus on your own needs. Start first self-care first: basic physiological needs, lots of sleep and rest, healthy food and exercise. When we’re codependent, we neglect our own needs and focus totally on the other person. So now, bring that focus back on yourself. You have the right to care for yourself and be a little “selfish” about it.
Also, when you start feeling lonely and perhaps start daydreaming about her again, have someone to reach out to to talk to and hang out with. Don’t stay alone with your sadness and longing. You can always post here if you start feeling down.
Also, I recommend writing down on a piece of paper all of the abusive stuff she did and how you felt as a result. For example, walking on eggshells, being accused of not having her as your No1 priority, not being allowed to have needs of your own, being like on remote control, feeling like a punching bag, becoming a shell, etc etc. If you want, I can help you create that list based on what you’ve shared here.
But basically, to have a list of “grievances” ready for those challenges moments when you start forgetting how bad it was and fantasizing of getting back together.
So I think at this point what is important is to have a set of precautions in place not to fall into limerence and fantasizing. Surround yourself with supportive people. Go to therapy. Take care of yourself and your basic needs.
And keep posting here as well, for as long as you need…
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