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  • #414919
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Coucou Tee,
    How are you feeling today?

    Oh so you would be leaving to another company? I thought you’d be moving up the ladder in your current one… What made you want to leave so soon, after only 3 months of being a manager there?

    Yes. Actually, my manager knows this company’s VP well so that’s why he gave me this opportunity. It’s more suitable role because of my diverse skillset with more responsibility. my manager said that VP is really skilled and I can learn a lot from than him.
    He said that because I made some processes efficient in few weeks that he couldn’t do in months.

     

    Well, it is sort of sudden… Although you’d probably manage to get used to the new people, just like you did with your current team. You say you feel “too much comfortable” around them – does it mean the atmosphere is pleasant and you work well together as a team? What about the changes and improvements you’ve introduced – are you pleased with that?

    I don’t know I think it just take efforts for me to get comfortable about new people. and Comfortable by I mean like Not super serious work environment. Which I prefer. Fun and focused team. We make fun of each of other and just comfortable share things which is more than work. Not too much personal but still it feels more connected that way than working with robotic people who are only focused on work you know what I mean? Yet still we finish our projects before deadline.

     

    Also I think I did help a little for more collaborative and connected team from the changes that I’ve introduced. Remember I told you about the vulnerability. Also recently I requested company to give all employees Headspace – Meditation Premium App subscription for free which they’ve accepted. And main thing I taught team how to have more Product-led growth approach.
    Am I pleased with that? Well so far I’m pleased but I think I could still do something more.

    The title of the video is “Why it’s important to stay connected“. In the first 2 minutes there’s a bit of rambling, but after that he gets into the meat of it – definitely worth watching!

    Thanks for sharing, I’ll watch the video and let you know.

     

    I see… so it seems your fear of a long-term commitment got triggered when she mentioned  it, and your knee-jerk reaction was to run away. A while ago we talked about a committed relationship and freedom, and how it is possible to have both, of course with the right person. But I guess you fear was stronger, so you didn’t want to even try to see what happens next in the relationship and if such compatibility is possible. You called it quits immediately. I am not saying this to judge you, but so you can notice what happened…

    Yes you guessed it right. She said it so seriously that I was kind of caught in the middle and I didn’t know what to say and my response was to run away. And yes I do remember we talked about a committed relationship and freedom. But I guess my heart wasn’t ready accept it fully? Maybe That’s why I didn’t even thought about it much and responded this way. And I actually felt like I’m out of some trap after that.

    Well, it could be that she’s already experienced quite a few failed relationships and would like at least a chance at something serious? That the guy she is dating doesn’t categorically refuse such an option…

    Hmm right dating is exhausting and maybe for women even more exhausting? I guess since most of the time there’s one partner after another.

    Maybe her question scared you away, because you thought she’ll be expecting you to marry her? But perhaps she only asked if you’re open to a long-term committed relationship, i.e. don’t exclude this possibility from the get-go?

    Yeah it did scared me because I’m scared for a commitment first. But you right perhaps she was asking just for that long-term possibility.

     

    #414922
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear SereneWolf,

    I am fine today, merci 🙂 Do you speak French or you only know a few words? (I had to look up coucou because I’ve never heard of it before)

    Actually, my manager knows this company’s VP well so that’s why he gave me this opportunity. It’s more suitable role because of my diverse skillset with more responsibility. my manager said that VP is really skilled and I can learn a lot from than him.
    He said that because I made some processes efficient in few weeks that he couldn’t do in months.

    What, your manager wants to let go of such a good workforce like yourself?? I say this only half-jokingly, because to me that’s strange. I mean, I’d want to encourage a good, efficient employee to stay and I’d give them a promotion, rather than encourage them to leave… unless he has shares in the other company as well 🙂

    Comfortable by I mean like Not super serious work environment. Which I prefer. Fun and focused team. We make fun of each of other and just comfortable share things which is more than work. Not too much personal but still it feels more connected that way than working with robotic people who are only focused on work you know what I mean? Yet still we finish our projects before deadline.

    This sounds really cool! To have a friendly, supportive work environment, not too serious and yet finishing tasks on time. A while ago you said you sometimes have trouble saying No to the upper management and so you just agree to everything, which then gives trouble to your team. Has that changed in the meanwhile? Are you more willing to say No to some of the unreasonable requirements coming from the upper management?

    Also I think I did help a little for more collaborative and connected team from the changes that I’ve introduced. Remember I told you about the vulnerability. Also recently I requested company to give all employees Headspace – Meditation Premium App subscription for free which they’ve accepted. And main thing I taught team how to have more Product-led growth approach.

    Sounds great! Meditation for better productivity sounds cool… Are you still keeping the feedback box as well – and are they using it?

    Am I pleased with that? Well so far I’m pleased but I think I could still do something more.

    Well, I think you should be very proud of yourself since you’ve achieved a major success: “I made some processes efficient in few weeks that he couldn’t do in months.”

    Actually, it occurred to me now that your manager might feel a little threatened by you, since you’ve managed to achieve something he couldn’t do in months. Maybe that’s why he wants to send you away? Sorry if I am too suspicious and his motives are sincere…

    Yes you guessed it right. She said it so seriously that I was kind of caught in the middle and I didn’t know what to say and my response was to run away. And yes I do remember we talked about a committed relationship and freedom. But I guess my heart wasn’t ready accept it fully? Maybe That’s why I didn’t even thought about it much and responded this way.

    Yes, it was an automatic reaction, triggered by your old wounds. That’s when our rational mind shuts down and only the limbic brain is active, which is all about fight-or-flight. You felt danger and you ran away…

    And I actually felt like I’m out of some trap after that.

    Yes, I can imagine… because you did feel trapped (you’ve already mentioned feeling trapped in the relationship before). And in this case it was just her mentioning the possibility of a long-term relationship that caused you to feel trapped. The alarm bell went off, it signaled danger and you ran away.

    Hmm right dating is exhausting and maybe for women even more exhausting? I guess since most of the time there’s one partner after another.

    I don’t know what was her dating experience. But I think it can be exhausting for both women and men. If she has met many guys who just want to have fun and no sincere intentions, I can imagine it’s exhausting for her…

    Yeah it did scared me because I’m scared for a commitment first. But you right perhaps she was asking just for that long-term possibility.

    Right… I mean objectively, you weren’t in any imminent danger, because she didn’t ask you to marry her or anything like that. But your emotional wound made you see it as danger and react the way you did.

    Have you talked about your fear of relationship/intimacy in therapy?

     

    #414933
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    I’m really glad to know that you’re doing well. So keep it up
    And yeah I’m kinda beginner to intermediate level in French. Because I adore romance languages. I want to learn Spanish, Portuguese and Italian as well.

    What, your manager wants to let go of such a good workforce like yourself?? I say this only half-jokingly, because to me that’s strange. I mean, I’d want to encourage a good, efficient employee to stay and I’d give them a promotion, rather than encourage them to leave… unless he has shares in the other company as well

    You see he’s an angel investor in that company. And that position’s salary range is quite high so… and most of all 100% Remote work! Now you see what I mean? 😂
    It’s been few months in city and I’m already feeling bored so I need new city adventure you know

    A while ago you said you sometimes have trouble saying No to the upper management and so you just agree to everything, which then gives trouble to your team. Has that changed in the meanwhile? Are you more willing to say No to some of the unreasonable requirements coming from the upper management?

    Well I’d say I haven’t perfected that I’m still working on Saying No properly but in face to face saying NO is quite hard for me. Via Emails I don’t have much problem now because I have time to think and explain the reasoning and it’s not just fight-or-fight response you know

     

    Sounds great! Meditation for better productivity sounds cool… Are you still keeping the feedback box as well – and are they using it?

    Yeah because I noticed that some of the  freshers still get anxious and worried for every little work even though I gave them freedom to make mistakes (In a way which I can solve without much issue) So I think if they’re more mindful about this it would be lot better for them in long run. Yup they are using the feedback box recently we made developers dress code 100% casual. For other teams it’s still smart casual. But still I encouraged that they prefer neutral colors so it doesn’t look too funky or sloppy for an office environment

     

    Well, I think you should be very proud of yourself since you’ve achieved a major success: “I made some processes efficient in few weeks that he couldn’t do in months.”

    Actually, it occurred to me now that your manager might feel a little threatened by you, since you’ve managed to achieve something he couldn’t do in months. Maybe that’s why he wants to send you away? Sorry if I am too suspicious and his motives are sincere…

    Haha thanks!
    Oh now that you pointed it out, Maybe??? But I think it’s still win-win situation for both of us. And another thing that I’m doing is that two of my assistants making “ready” for the work that is unfinished or let’s say just continue with the better stability. That way I wouldn’t have to worry much of my absence and ruining the values that I’ve created there.

    Yes, it was an automatic reaction, triggered by your old wounds. That’s when our rational mind shuts down and only the limbic brain is active, which is all about fight-or-flight. You felt danger and you ran away…

    Right and What kind of things could be helpful for automatic triggered reactions in your opinion?

    Yes, I can imagine… because you did feel trapped (you’ve already mentioned feeling trapped in the relationship before). And in this case it was just her mentioning the possibility of a long-term relationship that caused you to feel trapped. The alarm bell went off, it signaled danger and you ran away.

    Yes right and Inside my head I’m still like missing her and another side of brain is you crazy? It happened for well. You’re lot safe now.

     

    I don’t know what was her dating experience. But I think it can be exhausting for both women and men. If she has met many guys who just want to have fun and no sincere intentions, I can imagine it’s exhausting for her…

    Hmm that’s true

    Right… I mean objectively, you weren’t in any imminent danger, because she didn’t ask you to marry her or anything like that. But your emotional wound made you see it as danger and react the way you did.

    Haha yeah it was a silly move of me.

    Have you talked about your fear of relationship/intimacy in therapy?

    Yes. She told me to work on being kind with myself and loving myself more. Because it’s a part my CEN (Childhood emotional neglect) and True healing occurs when I learn to BE the loving parent to myself that I never had – Like we talked about the parent figure before (But in most natural and mindful way possible)

    She told me to continue the mindfulness practices that I’m doing…

    It’s a type of insecurity that I have to work on actively to break this toxic mindset. Accept other people as they are and stop expecting to be perfect because different people will show me love in different way. But if I’m just closing my heart for everyone (including myself) it could get worse over the time.

    And another main thing is that my ability to trust others. Because she told me being so much independent since the teenage years now you have mindset that thinks I don’t need anyone (Emotionally) and I’m safe by myself that’s why you fear the emotional vulnerability with others.

     

    And working on replacing on old beliefs to new beliefs to change to thought patterns.

    #414946
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Also, I just finished watching the video you told me about – <b>Why it’s important to stay connected. </b>

    It was insightful and something to think about

    In video he gives good example of Phone’s network connection and asks where are you?

    And after some thinking I’m just going back and forth to every connection type. But I’m more jumping on No connection to good connection (To get that next thing addiction)

    about bad connection one thing is that now I feel like I’m working on it good enough that I don’t let other people judgments define me so even if they say something I don’t care about it. For example, like what my father told me in past and how critical he was, Yeah, I accept that it gave me an emotional wound to heal but I’m at least not letting that wound to get worse.

    And for Real connection – and I think it’s a good reminder of what we talked about having a good supportive people around

    I can safety say that my real connections are growing. They help me become who I and empowers me. You, Some good supportive friends, Good career mentors…
    So Yeah I’m thankful for everyone and everything. 🙏🏽

     

    #415040
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear SereneWolf,

    yeah I’m kinda beginner to intermediate level in French. Because I adore romance languages. I want to learn Spanish, Portuguese and Italian as well.

    Wow, you’re quite ambitious wanting to learn 3 new languages! I myself am more of an utalitarian type of person – I’d do it only if I absolutely need it, e.g. if I want to live there.

    You see he’s an angel investor in that company. And that position’s salary range is quite high so… and most of all 100% Remote work! Now you see what I mean?

    OK, I get it now: it’s in his interest to employ the best workforce in that other company, so it makes sense why he’d encourage you to apply…. Good then, I am not suspicious any more 🙂

    It’s been few months in city and I’m already feeling bored so I need new city adventure you know

    So you too are keen to leave, right, because you’ve started getting bored with the city you live?

    Yeah because I noticed that some of the freshers still get anxious and worried for every little work even though I gave them freedom to make mistakes (In a way which I can solve without much issue) So I think if they’re more mindful about this it would be lot better for them in long run.

    Great that you gave the newcomers the freedom to make mistakes, so they don’t need to feel so anxious! That, together with some meditation techniques, might be really helpful.

    But I think it’s still win-win situation for both of us. And another thing that I’m doing is that two of my assistants making “ready” for the work that is unfinished or let’s say just continue with the better stability. That way I wouldn’t have to worry much of my absence and ruining the values that I’ve created there.

    Yeah, it seems like a win-win situation because both of you find it beneficial. And you’re doing a good job preparing your successors to keep up with the practices you’ve started.

    Right and What kind of things could be helpful for automatic triggered reactions in your opinion?

    Well, the first thing is to become more mindful – to slow down and observe yourself as you’re going through some of those triggering situations. To notice that e.g. “my anxiety is going up because she mentioned a long-term commitment”. You notice it and you know it’s a trigger for you, which gets you to react defensively (fight-or-flight).

    So if you don’t want to react defensively and run away immediately, you may want to take some slow breaths to calm yourself down. And you can tell yourself “I am being triggered now”. Also, don’t judge yourself for being triggered. Instead, have compassion for yourself as you’re observing the surge of emotions and the impulse to run away.

    So just breathe and observe yourself without judgment. That will help you stay in your rational brain and not be completely taken over by the limbic brain. Maybe this is enough for starters. Or you can also tell yourself something like “I don’t need to get married if I don’t want to. I am free to decide what I want to do.” If you don’t trust these affirmations (i.e. if you don’t trust that you have the freedom to decide), you’d need to work on that in therapy.

    But in any case, strengthening the observer part of yourself would be very important. Your therapist suggested the same: mindfulness. Be mindful, i.e. notice when you get triggered. And then try to slow down and calm yourself down, instead of reacting from your limbic brain, making rash decisions.….

    She told me to work on being kind with myself and loving myself more. Because it’s a part my CEN (Childhood emotional neglect) and True healing occurs when I learn to BE the loving parent to myself that I never had – Like we talked about the parent figure before (But in most natural and mindful way possible)

    Yes, when you make a mistake, or when you feel you should be doing more at work, call in the positive father figure and send the drill sergeant away 🙂

    And another main thing is that my ability to trust others. Because she told me being so much independent since the teenage years now you have mindset that thinks I don’t need anyone (Emotionally) and I’m safe by myself that’s why you fear the emotional vulnerability with others.

    Yes, you’ve been independent since your teenage years, and it certainly made an impact on you. In fact, you said the reason you left home at 16 or 17 was that you didn’t want anyone (specially your parents) to tell you what to do and how to live your life. You wanted to be free from their grip and their control (and their judgment).

    Living with someone and being partially “dependent” on them, or at least affected by them, probably causes a terrible fear in you. Because in your mind, it could be that living with someone means to be subject to their control, judgment, constraints to your freedom etc. Maybe you equate living with a partner to living with your parents…. and it terrifies you?

    It was insightful and something to think about

    Glad you liked the video!

    about bad connection one thing is that now I feel like I’m working on it good enough that I don’t let other people judgments define me so even if they say something I don’t care about it. For example, like what my father told me in past and how critical he was, Yeah, I accept that it gave me an emotional wound to heal but I’m at least not letting that wound to get worse.

    It’s good you’re not allowing other people’s criticism get under your skin as much as before. And that you’re developing more and more self-compassion and treating yourself with kindness.

    Where I notice your childhood wound is still having an impact on you is in intimate relationships. You’re afraid of intimacy, of being judged by the other, perhaps of being controlled by them and losing your freedom. As I said above, perhaps you see an intimate relationship a similar kind of prison like you saw your childhood and the relationship with your parents? And that’s why the very idea of living with someone in a committed relationship gives you the creeps?

    And for Real connection – and I think it’s a good reminder of what we talked about having a good supportive people around

    I can safety say that my real connections are growing. They help me become who I and empowers me. You, Some good supportive friends, Good career mentors…

    I am glad that your real connections are growing, and that you see me too as someone who supports your growth. I am really happy for you and am rooting for you, as you continue to walk your path!

     

    #415146
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Dear Tee,
    How are you doing?

    Wow, you’re quite ambitious wanting to learn 3 new languages!

    Well romance languages are kind of similar to one another, So not so hard and it’s just fun watching old vintage French and Italian movies on weekends so…

    I myself am more of an utilitarian type of person – I’d do it only if I absolutely need it, e.g. if I want to live there.

    Well that’s also good and feels like less burden I guess haha

    So you too are keen to leave, right, because you’ve started getting bored with the city you live?

    Yes. I get bored pretty quickly. If there aren’t enough things that interest me

    Great that you gave the newcomers the freedom to make mistakes, so they don’t need to feel so anxious! That, together with some meditation techniques, might be really helpful.

    Yup! I really hope so

    Well, the first thing is to become more mindful – to slow down and observe yourself as you’re going through some of those triggering situations. To notice that e.g. “my anxiety is going up because she mentioned a long-term commitment”. You notice it and you know it’s a trigger for you, which gets you to react defensively (fight-or-flight).
    So if you don’t want to react defensively and run away immediately, you may want to take some slow breaths to calm yourself down. And you can tell yourself “I am being triggered now”. Also, don’t judge yourself for being triggered. Instead, have compassion for yourself as you’re observing the surge of emotions and the impulse to run away.

    Okay so I’ll note this and try to work on that. Thanks! In some situations like when my anger gets triggered I do notice that directly, be mindful about it and then ask questions and calm it down after some slow breaths

    So just breathe and observe yourself without judgment. That will help you stay in your rational brain and not be completely taken over by the limbic brain. Maybe this is enough for starters. Or you can also tell yourself something like “I don’t need to get married if I don’t want to. I am free to decide what I want to do.” If you don’t trust these affirmations (i.e. if you don’t trust that you have the freedom to decide), you’d need to work on that in therapy.

    Hmm I think I can trust these affirmations if I reach to this step after being mindful about this specific trigger
    But in any case, strengthening the observer part of yourself would be very important. Your therapist suggested the same: mindfulness. Be mindful, i.e. notice when you get triggered. And then try to slow down and calm yourself down, instead of reacting from your limbic brain, making rash decisions.….

    Yes I agree

    Yes, when you make a mistake, or when you feel you should be doing more at work, call in the positive father figure and send the drill sergeant away

    Yes that’s what I’m working on.. You think act as a father figure to my cat counts? 😂

    Yes, you’ve been independent since your teenage years, and it certainly made an impact on you. In fact, you said the reason you left home at 16 or 17 was that you didn’t want anyone (specially your parents) to tell you what to do and how to live your life. You wanted to be free from their grip and their control (and their judgment).
    Living with someone and being partially “dependent” on them, or at least affected by them, probably causes a terrible fear in you. Because in your mind, it could be that living with someone means to be subject to their control, judgment, constraints to your freedom etc. Maybe you equate living with a partner to living with your parents…. and it terrifies you?

    Hmm well that’s an interesting and clever of you to think from that perspective and I think yeah! I don’t like being even partially “dependent” on someone or affected by them. It could be because I like to control (It’s lot better than before but still) but not being controlled. Because I prefer some things should be my way. And It should be without judgements. Like I know I’m in touch with my inner child and I still do lot of things that an adult actually doesn’t do like I turned into a kid when I’m with kids, Different kind of bicycling, Singing and dancing for no reason (Lot of times while cooking, Watching Anime and Cartoons and lot of things like that) And I kind of fear they would judge me for that and not actually understand. And also constrains to my freedom is a big thing you see sometimes I can’t say No to a person even though I’d like to say No. But another reason is I really fear disappointing them. So yeah lot of things going on

    You’re afraid of intimacy, of being judged by the other, perhaps of being controlled by them and losing your freedom. As I said above, perhaps you see an intimate relationship a similar kind of prison like you saw your childhood and the relationship with your parents? And that’s why the very idea of living with someone in a committed relationship gives you the creeps?

    Hmm I guess so.. with my parents It was mainly the freedom thing because of their overprotectiveness. But I do get what you mean in relationships we also get over caring and over protective.. or at least that’s something how I feel it

    I am glad that your real connections are growing, and that you see me too as someone who supports your growth. I am really happy for you and am rooting for you, as you continue to walk your path!

    Thanks a lot!🙏🏽

    #415228
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear SereneWolf,

    How are you doing?

    I am having another not so good period health-wise, so I am not too cheerful. But holding on, keeping hope that it’s going to get better eventually…

    Well romance languages are kind of similar to one another, So not so hard and it’s just fun watching old vintage French and Italian movies on weekends so…

    True, I was told that Spanish and Italian are sort of similar. Don’t know about French – everyone says it’s pretty hard….

    Yes. I get bored pretty quickly. If there aren’t enough things that interest me

    For a guy who watched a lioness give birth… no wonder that cities are boring 😀

    Okay so I’ll note this and try to work on that. Thanks! In some situations like when my anger gets triggered I do notice that directly, be mindful about it and then ask questions and calm it down after some slow breaths

    You’re welcome! Great you’re already practicing mindfulness when you notice you’re getting angry…

    Hmm I think I can trust these affirmations if I reach to this step after being mindful about this specific trigger

    Great! So at least intellectually you know you’re free to make your own decisions and no one is forcing you to tie the knot.

    Yes that’s what I’m working on.. You think act as a father figure to my cat counts?

    Haha… I don’t even think it’s possible with cats – they are great individualists and pretty sneaky 🙂 But you can be a father figure to that boy from the neighborhood, whom you were teaching how to ride a bike.

    And It should be without judgements. Like I know I’m in touch with my inner child and I still do lot of things that an adult actually doesn’t do like I turned into a kid when I’m with kids, Different kind of bicycling, Singing and dancing for no reason (Lot of times while cooking, Watching Anime and Cartoons and lot of things like that) And I kind of fear they would judge me for that and not actually understand

    I get it… that’s great that you’re in touch with your inner child! When you were a child, did you feel judged by your parents for being spontaneous and a little silly? Did they often tell you to “behave”?

    I don’t like being even partially “dependent” on someone or affected by them. It could be because I like to control (It’s lot better than before but still) but not being controlled. Because I prefer some things should be my way.

    Can you give me an example? What in your life should be your way and you wouldn’t agree to any kind of compromise?

    Thanks a lot!

    You’re very welcome, SereneWolf!

     

    #415350
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    I don’t know why that post goes into moderation.

    Anyways I have another question. Did you also had self-esteem issues growing up? How did you tackle it?

    #415349
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Ola Tee,

    I am having another not so good period health-wise, so I am not too cheerful. But holding on, keeping hope that it’s going to get better eventually…

    Oh I see but I’m glad you’re keeping up the hope. I also hope you’ll be better

    True, I was told that Spanish and Italian are sort of similar. Don’t know about French – everyone says it’s pretty hard….

    Haha yeah French is not that much similar or say least similar in romance languages, also tongue twisting a lot. But Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are very similar to each other.

    For a guy who watched a lioness give birth… no wonder that cities are boring

    Well even in the big cities I prefer outside areas not center areas just for near to wild and some more peaceful and farther from city noise.

    Great! So at least intellectually you know you’re free to make your own decisions and no one is forcing you to tie the knot.

    Yes I know that so I just have to stop fearing about it

    Haha… I don’t even think it’s possible with cats – they are great individualists and pretty sneaky 🙂 But you can be a father figure to that boy from the neighborhood, whom you were teaching how to ride a bike.

    Haha I agree with you on cats. And yes I do spend time with him but less since he’s spending more time indoors.

    I get it… that’s great that you’re in touch with your inner child! When you were a child, did you feel judged by your parents for being spontaneous and a little silly? Did they often tell you to “behave”?

    Hmm they never had to tell me to “behave” because I was very observant. And grandfather used to talk about other kids of my age how much they have “accomplished” and well behaved they are. So without much thought I was like okay as a kid this age I have to be well behaved and not do many silly things like other kids doing who aren’t much “accomplished”

    Can you give me an example? What in your life should be your way and you wouldn’t agree to any kind of compromise?

    That’s not an easy question to answer but I’ll try

    Hmm I think my freedom and ability to do whatever I want. Because like in relationship I care too much and even if they’re little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I can’t focus on my things.

    After that I noticed that in relationships I just loose myself in the process because over caring and overthinking about partner. And it affects my mood and even the sleep so…

    Back to the freedom part like I said If I even notice even a little that what I suggested made them uncomfortable I wouldn’t hesitate to change my plans just to see them not disappointed.

    Also ability to go wherever I go. It’s like a parent would be like don’t go to hike there it’s dangerous out there and then even after she said no and I’d go I feel guilty.

    But I had two different partners who were very accepting yet still I was worried about all these things.

     

    #415383
    Tee
    Participant

    Ola SereneWolf 🙂

    Haha yeah French is not that much similar or say least similar in romance languages, also tongue twisting a lot. But Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are very similar to each other.

    Oh I see, I thought you said French, Spanish and Italian, but you actually said Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are similar… okay, noted 🙂

    Well even in the big cities I prefer outside areas not center areas just for near to wild and some more peaceful and farther from city noise.

    Sure, it’s always better to be in or close to a green area…

    And yes I do spend time with him but less since he’s spending more time indoors.

    How come? Is he ill or the family just changed their habits?

    Hmm they never had to tell me to “behave” because I was very observant. And grandfather used to talk about other kids of my age how much they have “accomplished” and well behaved they are. So without much thought I was like okay as a kid this age I have to be well behaved and not do many silly things like other kids doing who aren’t much “accomplished”

    Right, so it seems you got the message that spontaneity, silliness, or rather playfulness (which are the qualities of the inner child) are not good qualities if you want to achieve something in life? And so you did your best to behave yourself, to hide that playful side of yours in front of other people.

    Perhaps that’s why you’re struggling to show that side of yours to your partner, fearing that you would be judged? Because your parents and grandparents judged it too?

    Hmm I think my freedom and ability to do whatever I want. … Also ability to go wherever I go. It’s like a parent would be like don’t go to hike there it’s dangerous out there and then even after she said no and I’d go I feel guilty.

    This is what I am reading from your words: that what you cherish the most is your freedom and ability to do whatever you want, without feeling guilty.

    It seems you’re very sensitive to your partner’s moods and are worried if she is worried, to the point of not being able to sleep:

    Because like in relationship I care too much and even if they’re little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I can’t focus on my things.

    After that I noticed that in relationships I just loose myself in the process because over caring and overthinking about partner. And it affects my mood and even the sleep so…

    If I even notice even a little that what I suggested made them uncomfortable I wouldn’t hesitate to change my plans just to see them not disappointed.

    What you’ve described is similar to being co-dependent: your mood depends on your partner’s mood, and if she is unhappy, you have the need to make her happy. And you can’t be happy if she’s not happy. You can’t separate your own mood and happiness from that of your partner.

    Also, you don’t want to cause any frustration to your partner, so you’d rather cancel your plans than to see them disappointed. You’d rather adjust to your partner than see them displeased with you. However, you don’t want to adjust and stop doing what you love doing, since you’re a freedom-loving guy. So you’d rather not have any relationship at all than have to sacrifice the things you love for another person.

    The truth is that you don’t really have to sacrifice the things you love – it is only your belief that you do. The problem you have (if I am seeing this correctly) is that you can’t stand your partner’s frustration. It’s too painful for you and you feel guilty. So rather than try to assert yourself or negotiate, you run away from the relationship entirely. It’s easier for you to live without a constant feeling of guilt.

    Am I seeing this right?

     

    #415385
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Ola SereneWolf 🙂

    Sure, it’s always better to be in or close to a green area…

    Also, because it’s just lot easier for evening walks and bicycling!

    How come? Is he ill or the family just changed their habits?

    Yup. His family is trying to change his habits. Already making him “ready” for “elite” school.  Typical. ://

    It did make me angry when I found out and even though I shouldn’t be in between but at right time I will talk to his mother. Because it’s like I’m seeing my past in this! and I don’t want him to go through what I’ve been through.

    Right, so it seems you got the message that spontaneity, silliness, or rather playfulness (which are the qualities of the inner child) are not good qualities if you want to achieve something in life? And so you did your best to behave yourself, to hide that playful side of yours in front of other people.

    Yes kind of…

    Perhaps that’s why you’re struggling to show that side of yours to your partner, fearing that you would be judged? Because your parents and grandparents judged it too?

    I guess so.. Maybe?

     

    This is what I am reading from your words: that what you cherish the most is your freedom and ability to do whatever you want, without feeling guilty.

    It seems you’re very sensitive to your partner’s moods and are worried if she is worried, to the point of not being able to sleep:

    hmm Yes that’s right…

    What you’ve described is similar to being co-dependent: your mood depends on your partner’s mood, and if she is unhappy, you have the need to make her happy. And you can’t be happy if she’s not happy. You can’t separate your own mood and happiness from that of your partner.

    Also, you don’t want to cause any frustration to your partner, so you’d rather cancel your plans than to see them disappointed. You’d rather adjust to your partner than see them displeased with you. However, you don’t want to adjust and stop doing what you love doing, since you’re a freedom-loving guy. So you’d rather not have any relationship at all than have to sacrifice the things you love for another person.

    The truth is that you don’t really have to sacrifice the things you love – it is only your belief that you do. The problem you have (if I am seeing this correctly) is that you can’t stand your partner’s frustration. It’s too painful for you and you feel guilty. So rather than try to assert yourself or negotiate, you run away from the relationship entirely. It’s easier for you to live without a constant feeling of guilt.

    Am I seeing this right?

    Yes exactly! Because I think it feels like lot of sacrifice. it does include my partner’s frustration. But not always, There are times when I can be extremely stubborn about things and not give up until they agree. But another thing I felt that when people around me are sad I feel extreme need to help them in whatever way I can. It’s like people who are near me should be happy around me even though it’s not in my control yet I’m still trying to control that. And until I’m able to help them properly I feel anxious and restless. It’s like I feel very responsible even though I’m not.

    But you’re right I need to work on this constant feeling of guilt…

    #415390
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Ola Tee*
    I addressed myself instead of you 😂

     

    #415393
    Tee
    Participant

    Ola SereneWolf,

    no problemo 🙂

    Yup. His family is trying to change his habits. Already making him “ready” for “elite” school. Typical.

    How old is he?

    It did make me angry when I found out and even though I shouldn’t be in between but at right time I will talk to his mother. Because it’s like I’m seeing my past in this! and I don’t want him to go through what I’ve been through.

    I understand you, seeing yourself in him… be polite though and very diplomatic when speaking to his mother. Parents don’t like to be given advice, unless they ask for it…

    Yes exactly! Because I think it feels like lot of sacrifice. it does include my partner’s frustration. But not always, There are times when I can be extremely stubborn about things and not give up until they agree. But another thing I felt that when people around me are sad I feel extreme need to help them in whatever way I can. It’s like people who are near me should be happy around me even though it’s not in my control yet I’m still trying to control that. And until I’m able to help them properly I feel anxious and restless. It’s like I feel very responsible even though I’m not.

    Yes, that’s typical for codependent relationships. Say if the parent is a worrying type, we try to make them not worry. If they are depressed, we try to cheer them up… because when the parent is unhappy, the child is naturally unhappy too. So we do everything in our power to make them happy. It’s almost like a survival need, because having a happy, care-free parent is in the child’s best interest. So we’re trying to regulate the parent’s moods, so they could better take care of us.

    Do you think this was the case with you and your mother? That you felt you needed to make her happy, i.e. regulate her moods? And you felt guilty if she was not happy?

    I do remember you mentioned you don’t like to make your mother worry, so you often don’t tell her if something’s bothering you. You pretend that everything is fine, and put on that big smile of yours. This could be exactly because of this emotional enmeshment: you can only be happy if she’s happy. And if she’s worrying about you, you can’t be happy?

    You said that your two previous girlfriends didn’t really put any constraints on your freedom (I had two different partners who were very accepting yet still I was worried about all these things.). But your guilt of displeasing them is very likely the same guilt you felt about displeasing your mother… it’s the guilt felt by your inner child.

    But you’re right I need to work on this constant feeling of guilt…

    Yes, and I believe it has to include separating yourself emotionally from your mother (i.e. your partner). And allowing her to be frustrated (for whatever reason – be it because of you or unrelated to you), and yet feel good about yourself. Don’t make your mood and the feeling of happiness depend so much on hers.

    Because it seems that your tendency is to get emotionally enmeshed when you’re in a relationship. That’s frustrating and exhausting (and you feel guilty all the time), so you think the only way to prevent it is not to be in a relationship at all. But it’s a false cure…

     

    #415404
    SereneWolf
    Participant

    Hi Tee,

    You feeling better?

    How old is he?

    He’s like 7.5 Years old if I remember correctly.

    I understand you, seeing yourself in him… be polite though and very diplomatic when speaking to his mother. Parents don’t like to be given advice, unless they ask for it…

    Yes I know but his mother is good natured and nice with me. So I’ll try to present this matter clear and calmly as possible. Because another thing I noticed is that I think she’s the main decision maker, her husband is naïve and he’s mostly saying yes to her. It’s actually funny to see them talking sometimes 😆

     

    Yes, that’s typical for codependent relationships. Say if the parent is a worrying type, we try to make them not worry. If they are depressed, we try to cheer them up… because when the parent is unhappy, the child is naturally unhappy too. So we do everything in our power to make them happy. It’s almost like a survival need, because having a happy, care-free parent is in the child’s best interest. So we’re trying to regulate the parent’s moods, so they could better take care of us.

     

    Okay well that’s a new discovery for me. Until now I thought I only have to deal with my Fearful avoidant attachment style but now I’ll have to work on this one as well. But I don’t actually remember try to regulate my parent’s moods, For example whenever my father is angry me and my siblings would just try to avoid him and not face him.

    Do you think this was the case with you and your mother? That you felt you needed to make her happy, i.e. regulate her moods? And you felt guilty if she was not happy?

    No. Not really. Because I even told her about my hypothyroidism, and she took it well. And in past there was times when even if I have a headache, she’d get really worried.

    But as far as I can remember I didn’t tried to regulate her moods.

     

    I do remember you mentioned you don’t like to make your mother worry, so you often don’t tell her if something’s bothering you. You pretend that everything is fine, and put on that big smile of yours. This could be exactly because of this emotional enmeshment: you can only be happy if she’s happy. And if she’s worrying about you, you can’t be happy?

    You said that your two previous girlfriends didn’t really put any constraints on your freedom (I had two different partners who were very accepting yet still I was worried about all these things.). But your guilt of displeasing them is very likely the same guilt you felt about displeasing your mother… it’s the guilt felt by your inner child.

     

    I mean which mother doesn’t worry about her  kids? So it’s obvious that she is worried sometimes and yeah in the past I tried to hide things from my mother because I was scared that she’d be worried because I was still just a high school boy going in wilds… But I think now she’s not worried as before because she can see that I’m a grown up? I’m not sure though. So now I do feel comfortable sharing my things with her as per her level

     

    Yes, and I believe it has to include separating yourself emotionally from your mother (i.e. your partner). And allowing her to be frustrated (for whatever reason – be it because of you or unrelated to you), and yet feel good about yourself. Don’t make your mood and the feeling of happiness depend so much on hers.

    Because it seems that your tendency is to get emotionally enmeshed when you’re in a relationship. That’s frustrating and exhausting (and you feel guilty all the time), so you think the only way to prevent it is not to be in a relationship at all. But it’s a false cure…

     

    Hmm you’re right and what steps I can take for separating myself emotionally?

    And Yes allowing someone to be frustrated because of me already seems very unpleasant.

    Right I know it’s not the cure because few days ago I was talking to one of my friend and she was like I have so much love to give and but I’m not allowing other people to give and receive to myself because I’m not letting close to me emotionally. And without this healthy exchange there’s this void.

     

    Oh and kind of a funny thing happened on valentine’s day. One of my friend’s doctor proposed me 😂

    There was definitely fight or flight response feeling because It was kind of sudden

    But the thing was that I couldn’t say No! I felt like if I say no today she’d feel disappointed and then it would make me feel guilty. But I didn’t said yes either. I mean I said yes for a date. It was really bold move for her. So I was stunned and she’s actually really attractive as well so… I mean here I am thinking about taking a bold move like that for years but 😂

    It’s been like 3 months, and she only knows me because I go to her clinic with my friend every two-three weeks, and she’s actually younger than me.

    But to be honest I’m not putting up any high expectations. Go on a date, get to know her a little bit and then maybe something…

    #415517
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear SereneWolf,

    I wish I could tell you I am feeling better, but I am not unfortunately… I’ll let you know if there’s some progress finally…

    Yes I know but his mother is good natured and nice with me. So I’ll try to present this matter clear and calmly as possible. Because another thing I noticed is that I think she’s the main decision maker, her husband is naïve and he’s mostly saying yes to her. It’s actually funny to see them talking sometimes

    Okay… if you share about your own childhood and your own experience, that might have some weight and she might consider it. Also, you can say that nowadays children spend too much time on the internet, and it’s not good for their health, so actually nowadays parents should encourage their children to go play outside and not try to keep them indoors.

    This occurred to me because I’ve recently seen a cartoon about old and new trends. One of the illustrations shows the Old trend: mother pulling her son back to the house because he’s been playing too much outside, and New trend: mother pulling her son out of the house, while he is glued to his smart phone 🙂

    No. Not really. Because I even told her about my hypothyroidism, and she took it well. And in past there was times when even if I have a headache, she’d get really worried.

    But as far as I can remember I didn’t tried to regulate her moods.

    Well, if in the past she got worried about you for even as little as headache – that’s a lot of worrying. Remember, what matters is what happened in your childhood – that’s the imprint you’re living with – even if now she’s not worrying that much. What did you do when she’d get worried about your headache, do you remember?

    I mean which mother doesn’t worry about her kids? So it’s obvious that she is worried sometimes and yeah in the past I tried to hide things from my mother because I was scared that she’d be worried because I was still just a high school boy going in wilds…

    Sure, that amount of worry is understandable, and since you were doing some really wild stuff, it’s sort of obvious why you didn’t want to tell her… But you also mentioned that she was worried when you wanted to learn how to swim, in a swimming pool with an instructor (if I remember well?). That’s a bit of an excessive worry, in my opinion. How old were you then?

    So I was thinking about emotional enmeshment, which I suggested as a possibility last time, but based on everything we’ve talked about so far, and how you behave in relationships, I don’t think this is the case with you after all.

    Because like in relationship I care too much and even if they’re little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I can’t focus on my things.

    You’ve talked about this before – that you get “overprotective” i.e. controlling when you try telling your girlfriend that she should eat healthier, or have better sleeping habits. From what I’ve understood, you don’t just tell her “you should get more sleep, staying late is bad for your health”, and then sort of let it go, but you turn into this drill sergeant who is pushing her to eat healthier, sleep healthier, etc. That’s the same drill sergeant who sometimes turns on you (in the form of the inner critic), and sometimes on the people close to you (in the form of the outer critic).

    So it seems to me that the “care” you show towards your partner has this overlay of criticism. And so you turn into this overprotective, critical father, who is watching his “daughter’s” every step, trying to “improve” her. You get so focused on her and her problems, that it consumes you completely and you can’t focus on your own life.

    I think this type of dynamic is not emotional enmeshment, but more like that you’re focusing too much on her and her “wellbeing” (but in a bad sense, like an overbearing parent), and then you’re frustrated when she doesn’t want to take your advice. This then is frustrating to you and you rather give up, i.e. leave the relationship.

    What do you think? Does this sound plausible?

    Oh and kind of a funny thing happened on valentine’s day. One of my friend’s doctor proposed me… It was really bold move for her.

    Yes, it was! But you know you don’t need to accept her marriage proposal, right? 🙂

    But to be honest I’m not putting up any high expectations. Go on a date, get to know her a little bit and then maybe something…

    Exactly! No rush… If she wants to rush things, please know that you have the right to say No. Even if she doesn’t like that…

     

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