Dear Katrine,

I asked not to work nights because it’s bad for me and my Cptsd and fortunatly i don’t have to do them any more.

I am glad that you’re spared from working in a potentially dangerous environment! It’s good that the management has understanding for your concerns.

Yeah he’s known for it. Prepandemic though he was friends with the top manager and so never had any consecvenses I really hope that this is taken seriously this time. They work so hard in that kitchen but they also need a good work environment. He can’t treat people this way.

What’s his position btw? Some kind of manager? That’s totally unacceptable that he’s been harassing people without any consequences or disciplinary action. I guess everybody was afraid of the big boss and afraid to file a complaint? But now, someone finally filed a complaint against him?

Got back after midnight after picking up my parents and he was sitting next to her do it looks like they made up again. She was sad all of last week and people were hugging her because he was foling around behind her back.

Oh so they’re back together? And he’s been fooling around behind her back… well, Katrine, I am glad after all that he’s not your boyfriend. He is still playing games, like sitting next to you but not saying anything, or looking at you but not saying anything…. and at the same time he has a girlfriend but is also flirting with other girls… I don’t like it at all.

He knew for some months that i was hurt by this, he didn’t think it is okay for him to ignore and act weird around me. He is the best he is like the guy i was with, you just know your in good hands, and I have been starting to see him as more than friends.

From what you shared about the chef, I like him. He really seems like a decent guy, also someone who is emotionally stable because he can tolerate you having a crush on someone else and accepting it and waiting patiently. It’s good news that you started to see him as more than a friend! He sounds promising! 🙂

I really want to start therapy and asking around is a great idea, I really want to feel better.

I wish you to find someone suitable and affordable too!

Ola SereneWolf 🙂

Haha yeah French is not that much similar or say least similar in romance languages, also tongue twisting a lot. But Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are very similar to each other.

Oh I see, I thought you said French, Spanish and Italian, but you actually said Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are similar… okay, noted 🙂

Well even in the big cities I prefer outside areas not center areas just for near to wild and some more peaceful and farther from city noise.

Sure, it’s always better to be in or close to a green area…

And yes I do spend time with him but less since he’s spending more time indoors.

How come? Is he ill or the family just changed their habits?

Hmm they never had to tell me to “behave” because I was very observant. And grandfather used to talk about other kids of my age how much they have “accomplished” and well behaved they are. So without much thought I was like okay as a kid this age I have to be well behaved and not do many silly things like other kids doing who aren’t much “accomplished”

Right, so it seems you got the message that spontaneity, silliness, or rather playfulness (which are the qualities of the inner child) are not good qualities if you want to achieve something in life? And so you did your best to behave yourself, to hide that playful side of yours in front of other people.

Perhaps that’s why you’re struggling to show that side of yours to your partner, fearing that you would be judged? Because your parents and grandparents judged it too?

Hmm I think my freedom and ability to do whatever I want. … Also ability to go wherever I go. It’s like a parent would be like don’t go to hike there it’s dangerous out there and then even after she said no and I’d go I feel guilty.

This is what I am reading from your words: that what you cherish the most is your freedom and ability to do whatever you want, without feeling guilty.

It seems you’re very sensitive to your partner’s moods and are worried if she is worried, to the point of not being able to sleep:

Because like in relationship I care too much and even if they’re little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I can’t focus on my things.

After that I noticed that in relationships I just loose myself in the process because over caring and overthinking about partner. And it affects my mood and even the sleep so…

If I even notice even a little that what I suggested made them uncomfortable I wouldn’t hesitate to change my plans just to see them not disappointed.

What you’ve described is similar to being co-dependent: your mood depends on your partner’s mood, and if she is unhappy, you have the need to make her happy. And you can’t be happy if she’s not happy. You can’t separate your own mood and happiness from that of your partner.

Also, you don’t want to cause any frustration to your partner, so you’d rather cancel your plans than to see them disappointed. You’d rather adjust to your partner than see them displeased with you. However, you don’t want to adjust and stop doing what you love doing, since you’re a freedom-loving guy. So you’d rather not have any relationship at all than have to sacrifice the things you love for another person.

The truth is that you don’t really have to sacrifice the things you love – it is only your belief that you do. The problem you have (if I am seeing this correctly) is that you can’t stand your partner’s frustration. It’s too painful for you and you feel guilty. So rather than try to assert yourself or negotiate, you run away from the relationship entirely. It’s easier for you to live without a constant feeling of guilt.

Am I seeing this right?

Dear Helcat,

You’re welcome and thank you for your kind words!

I find objective third party opinions very helpful, I often ask friends how they perceive situations.

It’s great that you’re open to feedback and ask trusted people for their view on the matter. That’s a very useful practice!

Your explanation makes sense. I can see now that Anita was sharing an overview of her thought process. That makes it less painful.

I am glad it helped you a little. Yes, I believe anita wanted to be transparent and so she over-shared, unwittingly.

So I’ve spent quite a lot of time studying your and anita’s interaction, and have noticed some patterns. I just want to say that what I am about to share, I am sharing in good faith. My intention is not to judge either you or anita, or take sides, but to give you my impression as an outside observer, and hopefully help in some way.

So what I’ve noticed is that there were plenty of interactions where both you and anita saw things clearly and responded from your true self. That’s when you got along well and had good and mutually respectful conversations.

But there were also situations in which either one of your or both of you reacted from a wound (and misinterpreted things, or overreacted), which then caused conflict.

Let me give you a few examples of what I mean.

An example of the situation where you saw things more clearly and anita refused to see it is when you warned her about treating some members harshly, e.g. when she addressed one member with the label “incel”, or when she accused another member for creating multiple accounts and lying. She strongly refused that she was disrespectful to anyone (“you keep repeating that I disrespect OPs when this is not the case“), and instead accused you of having a personal vendetta against her.

An example of the situation where anita had a good intention and you were too sensitive is when you believed that she was questioning the validity of your childhood trauma. The way she phrased her post was triggering for you, and you wouldn’t accept her explanation of why she didn’t mean anything bad.

An example of the situation where both of you were too sensitive and overreactive is when you thought that anita was talking about you on the thread School Bullying, when she wasn’t. You interrupted her conversation with another member, and asked her to stop referring to you and the disagreement she had with you. I’ve checked her post and she really wasn’t referring to you, but was talking about her mother’s bullying. I am pretty sure you’ve misread it.

But then anita – reacting from her own wound – escalated the conflict and accused you of cyberbullying and stalking. Which were definitely inappropriate accusations.

I think another example of such a situation, where both of you had an unbalanced reaction, was your first conflict, which happened in May, on the thread Attacked.

Anita was sharing about her progress with her mental health, but then you pressured her to admit that her anxiety is still high, and told her that her bar for happiness seems low. That wasn’t very kind… You later explained what you meant and that you wanted to encourage her to rise above her limitations. But even if so, that post of yours wasn’t very supportive.

Anita’s reaction to that post was severe. She stopped addressing you directly and instead addressed the rest of the community, show-casing you as an example of “how not to communicate”. Her tone was pretty condescending and belittling. In my opinion, that post was quite hurtful.

A few days later anita apologized for that, saying: “Dear Helcat: I apologize for expressing anger at you harshly and indirectly. I felt too hurt and too threatened to (1) be aware of my feelings,  and (2) to express my feelings clearly and directly.”

Following her apology, you apologized to her too for unwittingly causing her pain. You also explained where you were coming from when you “pressured” her about her anxiety. You two smoothed out the conflict (on May 18) and ended the exchange on a positive note.

This mutual apology is an example of both of you acting in good faith, with empathy and understanding for each other.

So this is the dynamic, i.e. the four types of interactions that I’ve noticed between you and anita. I’d love to hear your feedback and if you think there’s some truth in it.

A lot more could be said, but I wouldn’t want to push my opinion. If you found this helpful, I’d be happy to go into more detail.

Dear SereneWolf,

How are you doing?

I am having another not so good period health-wise, so I am not too cheerful. But holding on, keeping hope that it’s going to get better eventually…

Well romance languages are kind of similar to one another, So not so hard and it’s just fun watching old vintage French and Italian movies on weekends so…

True, I was told that Spanish and Italian are sort of similar. Don’t know about French – everyone says it’s pretty hard….

Yes. I get bored pretty quickly. If there aren’t enough things that interest me

For a guy who watched a lioness give birth… no wonder that cities are boring 😀

Okay so I’ll note this and try to work on that. Thanks! In some situations like when my anger gets triggered I do notice that directly, be mindful about it and then ask questions and calm it down after some slow breaths

You’re welcome! Great you’re already practicing mindfulness when you notice you’re getting angry…

Hmm I think I can trust these affirmations if I reach to this step after being mindful about this specific trigger

Great! So at least intellectually you know you’re free to make your own decisions and no one is forcing you to tie the knot.

Yes that’s what I’m working on.. You think act as a father figure to my cat counts?

Haha… I don’t even think it’s possible with cats – they are great individualists and pretty sneaky 🙂 But you can be a father figure to that boy from the neighborhood, whom you were teaching how to ride a bike.

And It should be without judgements. Like I know I’m in touch with my inner child and I still do lot of things that an adult actually doesn’t do like I turned into a kid when I’m with kids, Different kind of bicycling, Singing and dancing for no reason (Lot of times while cooking, Watching Anime and Cartoons and lot of things like that) And I kind of fear they would judge me for that and not actually understand

I get it… that’s great that you’re in touch with your inner child! When you were a child, did you feel judged by your parents for being spontaneous and a little silly? Did they often tell you to “behave”?

I don’t like being even partially “dependent” on someone or affected by them. It could be because I like to control (It’s lot better than before but still) but not being controlled. Because I prefer some things should be my way.

Can you give me an example? What in your life should be your way and you wouldn’t agree to any kind of compromise?

Thanks a lot!

You’re very welcome, SereneWolf!

oops, something went wrong with formating. Reposting….

Dear Lori, Helcat and all,

I too am sorry that anita chose to leave, even though nobody forced her to, moreover she in her most recent posts expressed that she doesn’t want to leave. I too valued her contributions immensely and I believe that her presence on the forums will be irreplaceable, since she was completely dedicated to helping each and every person, and no one’s post was left unanswered. Also, she offered super valuable advice and insight to so many people. Her contributions will really be missed 🙁

I agree with Lori that the situation with anita and Helcat isn’t black-and-white. In my opinion, there was sensitivity on both sides. For example, anita didn’t mean to question the validity of Helcat’s childhood trauma, but Helcat seems to have interpreted anita’s words as questioning and possibly accusing her of lying, which wasn’t anita’s intention.

But, truth to be told, anita has in the past accused several members of lying and inventing their stories, which led to some of those members leaving and deleting their accounts. I am not sure if this is what made you, Helcat, super vigilant and believing that anita accused you of the same, when in fact she didn’t?

I want to stress that anita helped hundreds of people with kindness, care and respect, whereas the instances where it wasn’t the case were pretty rare. The good that she did far outweighed a sporadic problematic reaction here and there.

But if we want to talk about how to prevent such situations in the future (answering to Lori’s question “If anyone has any thoughts to share to help me better address situations like this in the future, feel free to post them below!”), what I see as problematic is that I started to censor myself whenever I noticed a potential problem in anita’s reactions (which, I want to stress again, was very very rarely).

But nevertheless, anita reacted very strongly to criticism, even constructive criticism, directed at her. And she came up with a rule, which I believe isn’t a part of the forum guidelines, which she repeated to Helcat too (on Sept 18, 2022):

To promote safety and calm in the forums, it is important that Responders (members who choose to reply to an OP, in the OP’s thread)  do not criticize other Responders. It is not at all necessary because a Responder can thoroughly express his/ her understandings, convictions, etc.-  as many times as she wants, and at length- without criticizing other responders. Not only is there no benefit to the OP in such criticism, but it can easily turn an OP away from his/ her thread and discourage Responders from responding because of fear of being criticized.

This “rule” basically says that we shouldn’t say anything, even if one member is being unkind to another member. Anita presented this rule to me too, when I once tried to point out that she might be unkind or insensitive to another member. She reacted very strongly, explained why it was wrong of me to address her directly in the OP’s thread, and told me she wouldn’t be communicating with me again.

I’ve recognized it was a sensitive spot for her, and I think she too realized it in the meanwhile (and we’ve smoothed our misunderstanding since). However, the result was that from that moment on, I’ve never said anything, even if sometimes I’ve noticed things that bothered me.

This “rule” silenced me. I didn’t want to say anything to anita, because she truly did so much good on the forums and I didn’t want to provoke unnecessary conflict.

I understand how this rule can be beneficial too, because it prevents exactly that – unnecessary conflict and criticism among members. But when taken to the extreme, it can discourage constructive criticism as well, and things are swept under the rug, instead of clarified and talked about.

So, I agree with Brandy that this could be an opportunity for growth for all of us. At least it is for me. As much as I cherish peace and no conflict, sometimes it is necessary to speak out, even if it might be uncomfortable. Constructive criticism, when there is a loving intention behind it, isn’t bad, but necessary.

It is also my impression that Helcat’s criticism of anita was partially constructive (i.e. justified) and partially stemmed from over sensitivity. That’s why I said I believe this wasn’t a black-and-white situation. But unfortunately anita saw it as black-and-white. She felt attacked and even stalked by Helcat, and chose to leave. And it’s a huge loss for the community.

I truly hope she works through some things and returns to the forum, because her help, advice and care will be greatly missed.

Dear SereneWolf,

yeah I’m kinda beginner to intermediate level in French. Because I adore romance languages. I want to learn Spanish, Portuguese and Italian as well.

Wow, you’re quite ambitious wanting to learn 3 new languages! I myself am more of an utalitarian type of person – I’d do it only if I absolutely need it, e.g. if I want to live there.

You see he’s an angel investor in that company. And that position’s salary range is quite high so… and most of all 100% Remote work! Now you see what I mean?

OK, I get it now: it’s in his interest to employ the best workforce in that other company, so it makes sense why he’d encourage you to apply…. Good then, I am not suspicious any more 🙂

It’s been few months in city and I’m already feeling bored so I need new city adventure you know

So you too are keen to leave, right, because you’ve started getting bored with the city you live?

Yeah because I noticed that some of the freshers still get anxious and worried for every little work even though I gave them freedom to make mistakes (In a way which I can solve without much issue) So I think if they’re more mindful about this it would be lot better for them in long run.

Great that you gave the newcomers the freedom to make mistakes, so they don’t need to feel so anxious! That, together with some meditation techniques, might be really helpful.

But I think it’s still win-win situation for both of us. And another thing that I’m doing is that two of my assistants making “ready” for the work that is unfinished or let’s say just continue with the better stability. That way I wouldn’t have to worry much of my absence and ruining the values that I’ve created there.

Yeah, it seems like a win-win situation because both of you find it beneficial. And you’re doing a good job preparing your successors to keep up with the practices you’ve started.

Right and What kind of things could be helpful for automatic triggered reactions in your opinion?

Well, the first thing is to become more mindful – to slow down and observe yourself as you’re going through some of those triggering situations. To notice that e.g. “my anxiety is going up because she mentioned a long-term commitment”. You notice it and you know it’s a trigger for you, which gets you to react defensively (fight-or-flight).

So if you don’t want to react defensively and run away immediately, you may want to take some slow breaths to calm yourself down. And you can tell yourself “I am being triggered now”. Also, don’t judge yourself for being triggered. Instead, have compassion for yourself as you’re observing the surge of emotions and the impulse to run away.

So just breathe and observe yourself without judgment. That will help you stay in your rational brain and not be completely taken over by the limbic brain. Maybe this is enough for starters. Or you can also tell yourself something like “I don’t need to get married if I don’t want to. I am free to decide what I want to do.” If you don’t trust these affirmations (i.e. if you don’t trust that you have the freedom to decide), you’d need to work on that in therapy.

But in any case, strengthening the observer part of yourself would be very important. Your therapist suggested the same: mindfulness. Be mindful, i.e. notice when you get triggered. And then try to slow down and calm yourself down, instead of reacting from your limbic brain, making rash decisions.….

She told me to work on being kind with myself and loving myself more. Because it’s a part my CEN (Childhood emotional neglect) and True healing occurs when I learn to BE the loving parent to myself that I never had – Like we talked about the parent figure before (But in most natural and mindful way possible)

Yes, when you make a mistake, or when you feel you should be doing more at work, call in the positive father figure and send the drill sergeant away 🙂

And another main thing is that my ability to trust others. Because she told me being so much independent since the teenage years now you have mindset that thinks I don’t need anyone (Emotionally) and I’m safe by myself that’s why you fear the emotional vulnerability with others.

Yes, you’ve been independent since your teenage years, and it certainly made an impact on you. In fact, you said the reason you left home at 16 or 17 was that you didn’t want anyone (specially your parents) to tell you what to do and how to live your life. You wanted to be free from their grip and their control (and their judgment).

Living with someone and being partially “dependent” on them, or at least affected by them, probably causes a terrible fear in you. Because in your mind, it could be that living with someone means to be subject to their control, judgment, constraints to your freedom etc. Maybe you equate living with a partner to living with your parents…. and it terrifies you?

It was insightful and something to think about

Glad you liked the video!

about bad connection one thing is that now I feel like I’m working on it good enough that I don’t let other people judgments define me so even if they say something I don’t care about it. For example, like what my father told me in past and how critical he was, Yeah, I accept that it gave me an emotional wound to heal but I’m at least not letting that wound to get worse.

It’s good you’re not allowing other people’s criticism get under your skin as much as before. And that you’re developing more and more self-compassion and treating yourself with kindness.

Where I notice your childhood wound is still having an impact on you is in intimate relationships. You’re afraid of intimacy, of being judged by the other, perhaps of being controlled by them and losing your freedom. As I said above, perhaps you see an intimate relationship a similar kind of prison like you saw your childhood and the relationship with your parents? And that’s why the very idea of living with someone in a committed relationship gives you the creeps?

And for Real connection – and I think it’s a good reminder of what we talked about having a good supportive people around

I can safety say that my real connections are growing. They help me become who I and empowers me. You, Some good supportive friends, Good career mentors…

I am glad that your real connections are growing, and that you see me too as someone who supports your growth. I am really happy for you and am rooting for you, as you continue to walk your path!

Dear SereneWolf,

I’m stressed out for other things like if I’m going to join the company, again I’ll have to build the good team relationships with different people.

Oh so you would be leaving to another company? I thought you’d be moving up the ladder in your current one… What made you want to leave so soon, after only 3 months of being a manager there?

The team that I have now I’m just too much comfortable around them but now thinking about other people and task feels like so much challenge and I’m feeling anxious, overwhelmed and about this. I’m asking myself like am I capable of doing this?

Well, it is sort of sudden… Although you’d probably manage to get used to the new people, just like you did with your current team. You say you feel “too much comfortable” around them – does it mean the atmosphere is pleasant and you work well together as a team? What about the changes and improvements you’ve introduced – are you pleased with that?

Well that would be like I’m kind of dependent? Also it’s just I don’t know awkward for me

Okay, so if you show the need for her love and attention, you’re afraid you’ll seem needy, and this to you is a weakness, right?

There is a great video by Henry Cloud about the importance of connection. He talks about 4 states we can be in: 1) alone and disconnected, 2) in a bad relationship, 3) numbing the pain of loneliness with various addictions including escape into work, and 4) in a healthy relationship.

The title of the video is “Why it’s important to stay connected“. In the first 2 minutes there’s a bit of rambling, but after that he gets into the meat of it – definitely worth watching!

Thanks for your advice for the date I’ll take the important notes like Asking instead of assuming and Honest and open communication.

You’re welcome!

So just today we were talking and out of nowhere she asked like are you a person who prefers commitment in relationship or the other way around. So I told her that Honestly if she’s thinking about anything long term commitment with me She can stop. Because as of now I’m not ready for that and therefore I don’t want to waste your time and energy if you want something like that.

I see… so it seems your fear of a long-term commitment got triggered when she mentioned  it, and your knee-jerk reaction was to run away. A while ago we talked about a committed relationship and freedom, and how it is possible to have both, of course with the right person. But I guess you fear was stronger, so you didn’t want to even try to see what happens next in the relationship and if such compatibility is possible. You called it quits immediately. I am not saying this to judge you, but so you can notice what happened…

So she was like I already feel exhausted from dating and things (She’s same age as me) So I was surprised. So I was like I feel like I’ve only started this. And you’re already exhausted?

Well, it could be that she’s already experienced quite a few failed relationships and would like at least a chance at something serious? That the guy she is dating doesn’t categorically refuse such an option…

Maybe her question scared you away, because you thought she’ll be expecting you to marry her? But perhaps she only asked if you’re open to a long-term committed relationship, i.e. don’t exclude this possibility from the get-go?