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    “So you didn’t tell her ex that you were involved with her, but only that she refuses to talk to you? And then he said that she refuses to talk to him too?”

    It was in a professional context since he suggested that she’ll be able to help me with this and that. He absolutely didn’t strike me as a bad, abusive person with awful work ethics. Which makes me wonder about just how much of what she told me about him was pure slander, and about how poorly she painted me to my “friend”.

    “If you allow your emotions to stay cemented (“cannot be molded”), you won’t be able to heal and learn lessons from this experience, so you don’t repeat it again.”

    The lessons have been learned I think, what’s left is to disengage myself from the pain and disappointment.

    Thank you for your help once again, it gave me a lot to ponder about. I probably should let this be for some time until there’s a new development, and for my own mental health, so I don’t keep spinning the happenings over and over.



    I’m not sure why exactly you needed to mock me as I’m already dealing with a whole lot of pain here. There’s nothing fictional about this story and I would appreciate it if you just ignored this thread if you’ve got nothing to contribute.


    It did look like she completely lost her mind once he stopped his abuse and “validated” her. She went as far as betraying her lover and closest friend, and completely forgetting just how much he hurt her and how much she despised his personality and behavior towards others.
    Whatever it was, it’s far from sane and pretty much everybody who knows of the situation, agrees there.

    “And what if she doesn’t apologize and doesn’t come to her senses? Where does that leave you, both emotionally and in terms of your living situation?”

    The living situation is mine to handle and I’m doing what I can, there’s no plan because a plan is impossible in my case but I’m trying my luck while attempting to recover from this incident, which took a very heavy toll on my body and mind. I have never experienced so much pain and abuse before.
    Curiously enough, recently I decided to contact her ex whom she demonized in all ways to me; calling him abusive and how she despised everything about him, that his work ethics were terrible and so on (yet they spent years together somehow), whom she ghosted when she decided to end the relationship.
    He runs a company in the field where my skills are relevant, I didn’t go into detail, only that me and her worked together, and he was actually very polite and helpful, giving me both tips and practical help like offering to introduce me to some companies which may be good for me. He was also obviously hurt by her but didn’t say anything negative, just that she’s also refusing to talk to him.

    The emotional side cannot be molded though, and I’m not somebody who forgets. I do not want to bear with the pain and that distorted image of her for the rest of my life.


    Another thing;

    Based on the few interaction I had with him once this started, and even though he avoided saying much, it became apparent to me that he’s been manipulating her. He mentioned that he knows everything she says to me and tells her which words to use because “he knows me”, that he’s been removing “my brain parasites” from her, that he knew my “intentions when it comes to her”, that he knows her better than me even though they only spoke for a few weeks and so on. He started talking and “being nice” to her when she was in a vulnerable and confused state due to our relationship issues, I’m more than sure there was an agenda at play, considering the situation, timing and the outcome.
    Likewise during my last interaction with her (where she refused to give me back some of my property), she immediately got him to try and talk to me while being extremely hurtful and evasive. Everything that was going in between me and her since the conflict started, has been actually going through him and he told her what to say, eventually he even tried to talk on her behalf.

    If this isn’t manipulation then I don’t know. To me it feels like she became his hostage. As a reminder, I did warn her about him being possessive when things started, and she herself said that she’s feeling it too.
    In the end she disregarded my warnings, was unable to stop and things went past the point of no return.


    “Who removed him? You, as the person in charge of the project, or someone else?”

    I did since things were going nowhere.

    “You might have complained or told her about your difficult financial situation, and she, in an attempt to be “nice” and a “good samaritan”, offered her help.”

    Like I said before, she was the one asking questions, wanting to be close to me and forcing all those promises of help. I just enjoyed spending time with her.

    “I think it would be worth, just for the sake of complete honesty with yourself, to examine if there was anything you did that went against the moral code, or best practices, in your field of work.”

    I didn’t tell him anything about her or our relationship, just that she was very important to me and so he can’t continue to belittle and abuse her. I can’t think of anything and she herself commended the amount of work I have done and just how much I had to put up when it comes to troublesome people (especially my “friend”).
    Likewise he’s in no position to criticize and slander somebody when he only displayed extremely poor work ethics, social skills and treatment of people to her and everybody related. Such words coming from somebody like that should hold no value to begin with, especially not the person he abused.
    And as I said, everybody who knows him or interacted with him, is on my side of the story, except her because for reasons unknown, she did that 180 switch and she became absolutely blind, excusing him of everything and letting him blame all his poor behaviors on me.

    “Are you expecting her to get back to you? Are you hoping that she’d still help you with your relocation? What are you expecting from her?”

    I want her to be free from whatever venom he may have injected into her mind. I want her to explain things clearly and to apologize for all the harm, pain and injustice she inflicted. I simply don’t want to see her in a bad light for the rest of my life, like somebody dishonest, ungrateful, cruel and fickle.

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by Tineoidea.

    It is the same project, yes. She was having work-related depression, as in having trouble finding the motivation to work and had a lot of free time on her hands, so I thought I’d invite her since it was a field she was interested in and could learn new skills. She indeed found it interesting and involved herself deeply, we did many things together and had plenty of fun.
    There was no “supervisor” to speak of, although everything is in my hands and I was showing her around, explaining things and so on. She had the full freedom to be creative, at her own pace.
    My “friend” was on a “break” from it (as in, not really caring), then he came back, noticed her and was furious about his “authority being challenged”, also started to belittle her work and challenge her, and she challenged him back.

    “And also, when your “friend” started slandering you recently, did she believe him? Are you in danger of getting fired from the project?”

    I don’t know what she believes or not since she’s been refusing to communicate and cut me off. Considering how her treatment of me shifted towards vile, I assume that he did fill her head with a lot of nonsense. What makes zero sense to me is that she seemingly forgot just how much she criticized his poor personality, social skills, work ethics, the way he treated others and the abuse he subjected her to. The very moment he stopped being nasty to her, she betrayed me and was on his side, despite not really knowing anything about him as their previous interactions have been very scarce and mostly involved fighting. Our mutual friends are also very critical of him as they have experienced first-hand his poor behavior and personality, and have advised her to not involve herself with him, which fell into deaf ears.
    As for being fired, it is my project and fully in my hands.






    “It cannot be both carefree and loaded with conflicts. And it cannot be carefree when he was threatening to kill himself…”

    I guess it’s always been contradicting like this with him.

    “And in spite of his bad conduct and him causing more harm than good, you still got him involved in your latest project too (where he is now slandering you)? Or it’s one and the same project, which is still ongoing?”

    It is the same project, and of course he was removed from it a long time ago, when the conflict in between those two was ongoing and he pushed my hand. The slandering was done through mutual acquaintances.

    “BTW you earlier said he thought she was an impostor. In what way? What exactly did he have against her?”

    That it makes no sense for somebody to be so helpful, that her overdone friendliness feels very fake, that she will hurt me and separate us two. Things like that. He was worried that I was being played, and ultimately he was right.

    “Does it mean she promised to help your mother too to relocate to her country, together with you? Your mother would come to live with the two of you, in the big house that was being built, or something like that?”

    The house was for us two, although she did mention wanting to help with her accomodation and work somewhere close to us. Obviously after the breakup, I didn’t expect any grand plans anymore yet she still promised to keep helping in the ways she can (as those ideas of hers started even before we got romantically involved).
    Just a couple of days after that, she suddenly became very aggressive and petty, withdrew all the support entirely, said we aren’t friends anymore and many other hurtful things such as attacks on my personality (the same she fell madly in love with), but also to “not doubt her affection for me”.
    She even refused to take a quick look at some critical documents I made with her guidance and to give her opinion on those.

    During the turmoil, she sent me many mixed signals as she would go from angry and cold/cruel to nostalgic or even affectionate. From saying that she doesn’t want me in her life anymore to saying that she missed me badly and still loves me even if that diminished. Likewise she kept saying that she has no romantic feelings for my “friend” but is still on his side fully and wants to try things out.
    Later she said that with me she also lost her best friend but we can’t keep in contact largely because she doesn’t want to do that to him (his manipulation?), and also that interacting with me makes her very sad as she keeps remembering the life we had, which she missed a lot.

    He himself admitted to putting her against me and even trying to force our separation, he’s full of hate for me and obviously has been filling her head with all sort of delusions and slander. I am more than sure that he did manage to manipulate her a great deal while exploiting her strange obsession towards him (little brother figure?) and “wanting to take care of him” by playing victim, and he has a long history of victimizing himself in conflicts he himself creates.
    Still, not only she allowed for that to happen, she said that she actively chose to engage in it and that being objective or fair wasn’t her goal, against all my, and her own warnings.

    My only hope is that she’ll be able organize her mind and remember what we had, what happened during the conflict with him, his vile treatment of me, and how he actually is. And I hope that it happens sooner than later.
    By betraying and hurting me in the most cruel ways, she did the same to herself and her integrity. The lively, joyful, curious and good person I knew, became some sort of hateful husk (which she blamed on me), and it is truly devastating for me to see her like that.


    “It seems to me that you were attached to helping him, you wanted to help him and save him at all costs. And so you kept involving him in common projects, even if he only caused trouble? I am just assuming here, but would you say this was the relationship dynamic between the two of you?”

    Not generally, no, although of course I did worry and care for him when things were tough on his side. Our general relationship was mostly carefree but also loaded with conflicts which ranged from small to big, and I did have to take a stern or distant stance during those. Like I said before, he was very bad at respecting boundaries and my wishes.
    When it comes to my project, he wanted to help and so of course I let him in. Sure there were times where he helped or tried to, but in the end he mostly kept causing issues, stirring conflicts with other people and always let me down when I tried to rely on him for actual work. Likewise he often challenged my authority while overblowing his own even though he wasn’t contributing much if anything. I’ve had a lot of people complain about his conduct and how he was sabotaging things with his thoughtless behavior, which in turn devalued my own work, which is also what my ex kept saying about him.

    “What did they actually expect from you? How should you have solved it?”

    She wanted me to mediate so I don’t lose a friend over her, while constantly provoking him. He wanted me to get rid of her and cave into his demands while constantly disrespecting her and me both. As to how, I’ve no idea, but I truly tried.

    “Your ex promised both you and your mother to help you financially, but she only gave you “breadcrumbs” and then turned against you and went back on her word. So she left you stranded… is this what happened?”

    Not only financially but also logistically, and to help us with the relocation to a better place.


    “In general, when we treat someone like a child, we feel superior to them and we feel it’s our right to lecture them, tell them what to do, how to behave etc. You might have been very much invested in keeping him “on the right track” and saving him from himself, and in doing that you might have been patronizing him and treating him like a child. Would you say this is what happened?”

    That’s perhaps how he saw it. I myself was pushed into a corner with his behavior and didn’t know what else I could try at that point, and I have tried a lot. He kept hurting her, himself and me because he simply refused to apologize and to treat her with basic respect since he thought she’s insidious and has ulterior motives, will hurt me and separate us two (all prophetic).
    Like I said before, those two started the conflict but the responsibility of solving it was placed on me.

    “I don’t really understand what kind of promise she gave to your mother, which would require your mother to compromise her health and happiness? Was your mother required to take up extra work, so that the “ultimate goal” would come to fruition?”

    It involved my mother being stuck in a place she didn’t like, doing ridiculously exhausting work which worsened her health. Because moving somewhere else would have compromised or set back those “plans”. She encouraged my mother to stick to it and that soon things will be much better.


    “Right. It seems you were both mother and father to him. In your mother role, you were unconditionally loving and forgiving, in your father role you might have been strict and cold sometimes (after he’d throw a tantrum), but you’d quickly revert to your “motherly” love and caring for him. Would you agree?”

    That may be so, though near the end I finally began to lose patience.

    “How has she caused harm to your mother? If I understood well, it had something to do with her withdrawing her financial support?”

    She actively involved my mother in those empty “plans and promises” she made, which made her compromise her health, time and happiness for a long time, working towards that ultimate goal which was never going to happen. There wasn’t any real financial support to speak of, just the promises of it and some breadcrumbs.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Tineoidea.

    Perhaps as a brother more than a child, although there were many times where I did sort of have to treat him like a child due to his behavior. This is one of the complaints that my ex voiced when it comes to my “poor treatment” of him, that I treat him like a child. That may have been true when he was throwing tantrums like one and there was just no reasoning with him. Ironically, she herself called him immature, selfish and prone to childish tantrums many times, based on their own interactions.

    I am slowly getting but every time I wake up, there’s this still this deep pain because of the harm she caused to my mother. It’s one thing for her to blindly believe whatever angry slander, delusions and exaggerations about me that he’s been throwing at her, as a way to justify her stockholm syndrome, cheating and monkey branching, but how is my mother at fault for anything?




    “Perhaps you took pity on him because his mother wasn’t loving and caring?”

    That’s an interesting take and I didn’t think of it before. His mother basically dumped him when he was little and his father eloped shortly after he was born if I remember correctly, so he was raised by his grandparents. Not sure if this affected anything though.


    Ah, nothing outside of the average child’s mischief. It’s just that not all mothers are as caring and involved.


    “Do you believe you still did something wrong, without being aware of it?”

    I can’t think of anything which could have led to this. Neither of them communicated much if anything so it leads me to believe it was just an excuse. It is more than obvious that both of them seriously lack personal accountability.
    When their conflict started, it was instigated by him and constantly fueled by her, yet the responsibility of solving it was placed on my shoulders. In the end, not only I was blamed for not solving “properly” something which wasn’t of my making, but also became the scapegoat for her betrayal and his vitriol towards me.

    “To whom was she absolutely loyal and caring, no matter what?”

    To me of course.


    I’m well aware that a child is innocent, I was talking about the recent happening.

    Also, my mother is somebody I respect more than anybody as she did absolutely all she could to raise and keep me safe through all the strife. There are things she blames herself for, things she could have done better or differently for me, but I absolutely can’t put any blame into her, she has done much more than most could.
    The relationship with her has been nothing but deep and good. Curiously, I recall my ex saying that if she had to choose between me and her parents or anybody/anything else, she would choose me without much hesitation. Thinking about it now, it doesn’t feel quite right to say something like that, especially considering her betrayals.

    Perhaps I’ve been trying to copy the traits my mother displayed during my upbringing, the absolute loyalty and utmost care no matter what, bearing with everything. While such behavior is only natural when directed towards your children, I guess one has to be more assertive with friends and lovers.

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