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  • #157040
    Lisa
    Participant

    The small percentage of men who believe women are the stronger gender have been unfortunality let down in life to think that. Masculinity and feminity are equal in value. I would think that is a very small percentage.

    As far as men thinking women are equal in value. Where are they? I have possibly seen them in public life but they are rare and extremely hard to find.

    Most men recognize the power they have because women who are mostly out for themselves if we are going to be honest hand them that power on a silver platter. If they have a chance to be put up above other women they will certainly take it.

    There are enlightened people but the people in my third paragraph unfortunality rule most of the world.

    Women don’t like each other because they are competitors. I am one of the very few women who does not want to be a competitor. I hate when women turn on me because of a man and hate when men judge me because I have an opinion.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Lisa.
    #157048
    Lisa
    Participant

    Just to give you a live example of the story of my life. A man sitting next to me said hi to a guy going out the door and this guy sits down and talks to this gentleman. If I had said that to this man he would have probaly thought why is she saying anything to me? Just to let you know no he did not know this gentleman but to the guy going out the door he was a person. He was not measured on what he could do for the guy going out the door. If I spoke to him his first thought would probaly have been, “What can she do for ME?” Not interested in anything I have to say.

    So he has a pleasant conversation with this man and then moves on….because he values him as a person plain and simple.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Lisa.
    #157080
    Lisa
    Participant

    The man who delights in ignoring me is having a conversation with another woman in front of me, no doubt enjoying excluding me. I will change my opinion when I am given proof against what I say.

    #157122
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lisa:

    I was glad to read your post on the other thread, about favorite films. I want to read your recent posts here with an awake brain tomorrow morning. It is shutting down for the night. During my walk this afternoon, I thought about the topic of men, women and equality, following our communication earlier. Will write in about ten hours or so.

    anita

    #157132
    Monk
    Participant

    I did not read all your posts, but sounds like you need to keep an open mind, that is my $0.02 advice. You have become very bitter and prejudiced against men, introspect and ask yourself if that is the case.

    Some more philosophy, if that helps…there is a sport called skeleton sledding, not sure if you have seen it, but some very brave people lay belly down on a sled and navigate down an ice track at speeds >80 m/hr with 4-5 G acceleration forces. The only thing that helps a sledder to possibly perform better and not get thrown off is ‘Visualizing the Track’ they literally close their eyes and visualize themselves going down the track even before they do it..imagining every corner and turn, how and when they are going to shift their body weight and center of gravity.

    How is this relevant to your case? you got to ‘Visualize’ yourself with a man, in a happy marriage,  or however you desire your life to be..write a few pages on how you want your future life to be.. you need to create this possibility in your mind, for you to subliminally accept that it is OK for you to be in a happy relationship and there is no such thing as men hate you.

    Try it, no harm in trying, even if you feel its stupid.. all desires that get fulfilled start out with an idea in the mind, where the mind subliminally thinks its possible to get that desired outcome. The universe will do the rest for you, all you need to do is imagine that outcome.

     

    #157136
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lisa:

    In the first part of my post to you, I will again, state what you believe based on your three most recent posts of yesterday. In the second part I will give you my thoughts.

    First part, what you believe: The great majority of men believe women are the weaker gender. A very small percentage of men believe women are equal or the stronger gender. Men who believe the two genders are equal in value are rare and extremely hard to find. Most men recognize their power over women and take it, while women hand it to them on a silver platter. Women compete with each other for men, turning against each other. Very few women are not competitors and you are one of them. You hate women who turn against you in their competition for men and you hate men who disapprove of you being outspoken, expressing your opinion. Men evaluate women for what the women can do for them, things to be used, not equal people who’s thoughts and opinions matter while they treat other men as people whose thoughts and opinions matter. You are very convinced of this and have seen evidence of this multiple times, over the years.

    Second part, my thoughts: I believe boys and girls, men and women are of equal human value. Social conventions regarding gender roles which are taught to boys and girls early on, do play a huge part in the social/ relationship dynamics between the two genders. It is true that lots of men do exercise the power-over given to them by social conventions and by women who submit to them.

    Most women who are given power-over-others do exercise that power as well, to the disadvantage of others.  it is a human inclination to take advantage of power, not a men inclination. Once again, boys and girls, men and boys, are human beings first, born the same. Have the same needs and inclinations.

    It is also true that many women compete with each other for men.

    But it is not “a very small percentage” of men who do not take advantage of the gender role traditional power. Lots and lots of men do not because they never felt that power, never experienced it. Lots of men were treated badly by their mothers and learned to fear and submit to the women in their lives, unfortunately for those men. I personally know of quite a few.

    Although historically men had the right to own property and vote etc., and women did not, in western societies, lots of legal and economical changes have been made. The historical inequality still exists to some extent and is more prevalent in some societies, cultures, countries than in others.

    Thing is, in real life, millions of men in the U.S. alone, never had the … pleasure of experiencing that historical gender power, never felt superior to women or to anyone at all.  Many feel powerless, anxious, needy and desperate.

    Many millions in the U.S., Europe, Australia, and in other parts of the world. Many of these men post on these very forums!

    I have no doubt that if you were to consider a relationship with a man, you will have to make sure it is a man who is not inclined to feel superior over women for being a man. Thing is you have millions to choose from.

    anita

     

    #157432
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lisa:

    On the first day of your thread, May 1, 2017, you wrote: ” I am female and 48 years old. I have never had a relationship. I have always longed for one. Every day since I was a teen I have imagined being in relationships… I have prayed, wished for, read books to find my soulmate but like my father he never came to me….It feels like men hate me ..Why do men hate me so much?”

    Your biological father didn’t hate you. He didn’t visit you because your mother’s family hated him. On May 2, you wrote: “my mother’s family did not like my father. I understand there was a huge fight when he came around to see me and was told to stay away from me” and on June 20, you wrote: “I was told he (your father) fought to see me when I was a baby and he was around but eventually was told by my mother’s family to stay away.”

    Hate kept your father away.

    On July 2, you wrote: “I appreciate everyone who has posted but have you noticed no men have? They just don’t care” and July 7, you wrote: “I could have bet money that men wouldn’t post on my thread.”

    Your clear and tangible hate for all men is keeping men from posting on your thread. And it is the same hate that is keeping men out of your life.

    May 27, you wrote: “I am a good person but often become resentful and angry” – you get hateful. On May 13 you wrote that you are “too honest, too opinionated”- yes, you are very honest and very outspoken to men about your hate toward them, and this is why they stay away. At times you may be nice, at first, but soon enough you express to them your hate in no uncertain terms.

    July 7, you wrote: “I know a man that I have to interact with everyday who never initiates a conversation with me because of a bit of truth I gave him in October”- that bit of truth was a bit of your hate. Understandably he does not initiate a conversation with you because he doesn’t want to experience more of your hate.

    June 14, you wrote: “I have seen women who brought many problems to relationships and yet someone loved them. I don’t understand why he doesn’t come along.” People do not volunteer to experience being hated, this is why “he doesn’t come along”.

    You hate all men, not only the rich and powerful men, but also men who have never experienced the advantage of their gender. You even hate men who speak for fairness and justice for women; June 19, you wrote: “even the few men who know intellectually the value of feminity still objectify women. They just don’t brag about it and even speak out against it.  They too put women in categories socially but intellectually speak as if we are all worthwhile…You think some men are enlightened and it turns out they are not”.

    So no man is excluded from your hate.

    Thing is, it is not only men that you hate. You also hate women whom you refer to as worthwhile, or “the worthies”, that is, women who love and or are loved by men (May 1: “I get upset and resentful. Especially at married women and women who seem to get all kinds of attention for doing almost nothing”)

    This leaves only the women in “the unworthies” category free of your hate. But not if they do not hate men too and clearly express it to men (June 25: “I wish other women were as strong as I am and didn’t let them (men) get away with everything they get away with. They are weak”)

    June 23, you wrote: “I don’t know if men hate me or I hate them…I am looking for the answer of why men haven’t pursued me”-

    I answered your question.

    anita

     

     

     

    #157590
    Lisa
    Participant

    I want to respond to Monk’s post and Anita’s when I feel I can do so.

    A question for Anita: If I do “hate” men, I often thought I resent them, do you think that hate comes out of the thin air? Most of the problems in the world exist because people don’t ask “why?” Just saying “oh that’s just the way they are,” doesn’t solve problems. There are reasons people are angry.

    #157606
    Lisa
    Participant

    I am not saying you are saying ” that’s just the way I am.” I am saying that my feelings come from somewhere. That somewhere has to be acknowledged.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Lisa.
    #157612
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lisa:

    I very much know that your “feelings come from somewhere”- I read your story since May 1 and I retold your story, and then read your story again, I studied it, over time. I understand and I feel great empathy for you. Please pay attention: what you feel is okay. You are not a good or bad person for what you feel. So when I wrote that you hate men, I am not criticizing you.

    I wrote on these forums again and again, that feelings are automatic mental events, we don’t choose them. Since we don’t choose them, what we feel does not make us good people or bad people.

    Sure you have your reasons for hating (or resenting) men, and it doesn’t come from thin air. At the same time, it is also true that people do not like to engage with people who hate them. People stay away from people who hate them. So the fact that you hate men is the reason they stay away from your thread and from your life.

    You asked a while ago: “I am looking for the answer of why men haven’t pursued me”- my answer is that men did not and do not pursue you because in their interactions with you they sensed your hate for them and they stay away from you, not wanting to experience more of it.

    Do you see how the two go together: you have your reasons to hate men AND your hate keep men out of your life?

    anita

    #157970
    Lisa
    Participant

    Monk I would like to be open minded about my situation, I try to be open minded and I do read what people write and work it out.  I am bitter and I do generalise when I am particularly upset. Am I prejudiced against all men? I don’t think I am, I don’t know. There have been a lot of men I admire whom I have never met but my personal experiences with them have not been so great. Even in the ones I admire I look for those flaws which do seem universal in the hope that I am proven wrong. I do believe that all people are individuals and the more individualistic a man is, meaning following his own path and not what impresses the world, is what I admire.

    I have seen skeleton sledding. I am a huge Olympics fan. I would imagine it taking a lot of focus. I understand what you are trying to say about not losing focus.

    I have tried to visualize myself with a man and creating the life I want but it’s very easy for me to lose focus because of my endless issues. In this particular area of my life I have been reading about “love avoidance.” Of all the things people do who have this problem, sabotaging relationships I am the queen of.

    I will write down as you advise after visualizing myself with a man in a life I want to be a part of and keep telling myself that I can make it happen.

    My reactions to men for me I have always felt have been in psychological self defense over feeling rejected or feeling guilty rejecting someone else. Acceptence overall in society is very important to me and I am overwhelmed by that.

    I know the “men hate me” is what I think in my mind because I always thought that one man would come along and be different from most of the ones I encountered in my life but it seemed they were not interested in me and I slowly became more and more resentful, especially talking with the men who married women I knew.

    I wouldn’t feel stupid at all visualizing something so wonderful. My only concern would be easily losing my focus and crashing right back into depression and bitterness again.

    Thank you for the advice.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Lisa.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Lisa.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Lisa.
    #158002
    Lisa
    Participant

    Anita I am trying to answer your post but I am having a difficult time doing so.

    #158014
    Lisa
    Participant

    I have to work until 2pm. I have had a very busy week at work but am off for the weekend. I appreciate your input Anita as well as others but I want to post a more thought out post instead of a reaction post.

    #158050
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Lisa:

    Take your time. And take care of yourself best you can, please.

    anita

    #158262
    Lisa
    Participant

    Anita thank you for your patience.

    I have a difficult time equating my feelings with “hate” when it comes to men. When I think of hate I think of something or someone you want nothing to do with.

    I know that people are not thinking “oh she’s just defending herself” when I say some of the things I say but it truly is how I feel. I feel as if I am defending myself or other women when I give my opinion. I am always on guard but I truly felt one man unfairly criticised a woman and I truly thought that others who have not liked what I said were trying to intimidate me or spoke to me in a way that made me feel as if I was not valuable. I do not go up to random men and be difficult with them although on occasion thanks to my PMDD I can be quite rude to men and women, especially if I feel they have relationships. That’s when my loneliness turns into jealousy and anger.  I do not single men out when I feel like that. When I am rational like I am right now I feel no irritation at the men and women passing me by in the cafe right now. I am jealous of relationships but it doesn’t result in me blaming them for being able to have them when I feel I can not.

    I understand what you are saying and I hear many people use the word “hate.” I think I just view the word differently than most but that is the case for a lot of things. I don’t feel I hate men because I feel I wouldn’t want a relationship with one so badly if I did. I found it difficult to answer because I didn’t want to continue being argumentative with you when you are trying to give me advice.

    I do agree that I probaly give off a vibe of stay away from me or I can be overly assuming and judgemental about the intentions of some men. I do agree somewhat that I can be prejudiced against men thinking they are all the same to some extent. I especially feel that when my emotions are running high or I feel hurt.

    As someone who didn’t feel heard growing up I always live in fear that if I do not say anything then no one will when it comes to things I think are unfair. I am extremely stubborn which is why I admire extremely stubborn women and men as a matter of fact. They don’t sway. I view their stubborness as strength.

    I know to have a relationship I am going to have to start to sway or be open minded but it is so hard. I was bullied in a lot of ways when I was a child and I use to cower and hide until one day I turned around and looked directly into someone’s face and said very pointedly, “I’m not afraid of you.” I came to view all men as either ones who wanted to use me, intimidate me, or mock me. They weren’t always like that but they were a good amount of the time so they were my role models for men. My grandfather who I do believe liked me and didn’t want to hurt me could be very old fashioned with his views so even if he was a better role model who would I have found like him when I should have been dating years ago? He was from a completely different generation.

    I found myself drawn to men on television who were different from the men I knew growing up. I didn’t have crushes on “bad boys” or men who everyone else was having a crush on. My crushes were on men who I thought were physically attractive although they might not be to a majority of people. I was more interested in the way they acted and interacted with other people. I was fascinated with their emotional intelligence and gentle way they had. I loved their talent and their strength as well. I am not saying that all the men I grew up with didn’t have moments like that, they just had too many issues that overpowered who they could have been.

    I also feel I didn’t have a female mentor of any kind growing up. I “felt”my aunts abandoned me to get married and have their own children. My real mother was never really able to overcome her issues to be a strong influence on me and my grandmother who was very practical and had a very difficult childhood was just glad to have a roof over her head.

    I know I am rambling but I do agree that I am a big part of the problem as to why I have never been able to form a romantic relationship and also why I have difficulties with friendship and people trying to help me. I have more than a few issues and working all the time for little money is exhausting and I feel I do not have the time or money to get the help I need.

    I still think that I can turn it around and find a way out of my loneliness. I just don’t know if I have the tools or the directions on how to make it work. I know I have to move on with this thread though and start actually doing something about my problem. Thank you again for being patient with me.

    Lisa

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Lisa.
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