Honestly, as a parent myself, I’m on board with your boyfriend. The kids come before anyone I date, and I would do the same thing if my kids weren’t comfortable with someone I’m dating just yet…. but there are things your boyfriend can do besides forcing the kids to be in an uncomfortable situation, especially when they’re worried they’d risk the love of a caregiver.

Most importantly, the mother needs to get over it, and she needs to have a talk with her kids that she will NOT reject them. I would suggest that your boyfriend have a talk with her, help her to see that it’s not good for the kids to be living in fear of their mother rejecting them for any reason, and that it would be better for everyone, mostly the kids, if their mother’s love is unconditional. If they can get that resolved, then the kids should feel much better about being around you, and your boyfriend shouldn’t have an issue with you all being together.  Sometimes talking together with a psychologist/mediator can help a ton with these discussions.  I know that’s what it took for my daughter’s father to finally stop acting like a jerk, and he even apologized!

Otherwise, if he won’t stand up to the mom and make sure they both as parents let their kids know that their love is unconditional and they won’t ever reject them, he’s going to have to not bring anyone over until both kids are grown and moved out, and in that case, you might be wasting your time unless you don’t mind the possibility of things staying the way they are for the next 7 years or so.

Hi Malena,

I would cool it for a few more years. The mother is looking for drama out of habit. If your boyfriend doesn’t mention you and the kids don’t see you, there is simply nothing for her to be upset about. Of course this means she’ll have to look for something else to be mad at. Probably her current boyfriend.

Then when all the kids are in their twenties, I envision you getting married (?). This will resurrect the old drama, but it will be ancient and the mother will sound ridiculous even to herself. Quietly have a small ceremony (kids optional) and don’t make a huge production of it.

His children ARE in the middle, and why should they be in the middle of their parents’ torment? It’s not fair to them, and I would just live with it even though it’s not fair to you. You can handle it. An eleven and seventeen year old can’t.

Best,

Inky

Dear Malena:

You wrote about the mother of your boyfriend’s 11 and 17 year old children:  “she continuously threatens to leave them if they engage in any positive way in dad’s relationship so they live in constant fear of mother’s rejection… bf is a fantastic dad so I fully understand that he doesn’t want to cause the children any distress”-

– but they are already experiencing lots of distress. It doesn’t take a mother to actually leave her kids to cause the kids distress, it takes threatening to leave them that causes them a great deal  of distress.

I grew up with a mother who repeatedly threatened to leave me, ever since I was about five and throughout my second decade of life. She never left me but the repeated threat that she will leave me caused me so much distress that I develop a variety of anxiety disorders, including Tourette Syndrome and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, beginning in  my first decade of life.

It may be better for his children (for as long as they know that he is dating you) to have you  in his house while they are there, and let their mother know about it before hand. Whatever happens next is not likely to be worse than his children waiting and waiting and worrying about their mother leaving them sometime in the future.

The ongoing anxiety- filled anticipation, day after day, night after night, of a dreadful to happen the next day, or the next,  is more harmful to a child than the event itself.

Every day or night that they are afraid that she will leave them is as bad for them as if she did leave them that day, or night.

anita

Dear Malena:

You are welcome.

In the context of two children suffering ongoing severe emotional abuse, it is hard for me to think about your relationship with this man. It is difficult to look away from the abuse part of these two children and look at the boyfriend-girlfriend relationship between you and their father.

The father of these two abused children should do all that he can do to have her charged with child abuse and/ or seek full custody of his two children ASAP.

If this is not possible for him, then he is held hostage by this woman for as long as the children are living with her, and as unfair as it is, he should not date until such time that the two children (one a year from being legally an adult) live independently and away from their mother.

If I was you, for as long as their mother has any type custody of the children, I would end this relationship because I wouldn’t be able to endure the thought that I have any part in this story of abuse.

Outside of the child abuse part, this is not a great situation for you and doesn’t look like it’s getting better. I am sure there is a better dating/ relationship option for you out there.

anita

Dear Malena:

You are welcome. In your original post you wrote: “Bf says he doesn’t want to put his children in difficult position.. I just don’t get my bf’s reasoning”. In your most recent post you wrote: “he doesn’t want to deprive the children of contact with mum”-

He is denying reality so to lower his stress level. Reality is that his children are not yet to be in a difficult situation, they already are, and it is a good idea to deprive them of contact with their mother! He denies this reality and makes believe that his children are in an okay position as is, and that their contact with their mother is a positive thing that should continue.

His reasoning is significantly flawed. I think that you are correct in that “it’s a hostage situation for all involved”, and you are held hostage directly by his flawed reasoning.

I hope you free yourself then, from his wife and from his flawed reasoning regarding what he needs to do to right his children’s situation. No wonder he is in no position to figure and do what is right for you!

anita

Dear Malena:

You are welcome.

Regarding: “the kids are so desperate for her love they don’t want to be parted from her”- young children are very needy of their mother, but when she threatens to leave them in one way or another, over and over again, they become desperate for her, not only as young children, but as teenagers and adults- It is the threatening behavior of the mother that fuels her children’s lifetime desperation for her, a desperation that shows itself in different ways.

You shared that your boyfriend of 3.5 years has been divorced four years. He and his wife have joint physical custody of the kids, 11 and 17, the kids spend 50% of their time with their mother and 50% of their time with their father. His two kids refuse any contact with you “out of fear of rejection from their mother… constant fear of mother’s rejection” as she “continuously threatens to leave them if they engage in any positive way in dad’s relationship… any form of disloyalty from the children is punished by tantrums and threats. It’s heartbreaking to watch” (did you personally watched it?)

His ex wife “doesn’t see anything wrong with what she’s doing, she refused to do any form of mediation or counseling for herself”, and any attempt by your boyfriend “to have a constructive conversation with his ex end up in verbal abuse from her”.

His 17 year old recently started giving her father “silent treatment at any mention of our relationship” and the 11 year old is “too scared to support dad”.

You also shared that you and your boyfriend have planned to get married and live together but as it is, you are not allowed to stay in his home while his kids are in his custody, and when you suggest that you should be allowed in his home while his kids are there, you “almost become the ‘bad guy'”.

My input today: I don’t know if during these 3.5 year relationship, you ever met his kids, if you spent time with them in their father’s home at earlier times. I don’t know if you ever met his ex wife, if you personally watched the way she treats her children, or the way she treats her ex husband.

You wrote that his 17 year old gives her father “silent treatment at any mention of our relationship”- I don’t know why their father keeps you out of his home so to prevent his children being harassed by their mother, yet mentions you to them, knowing that she will harass them for it.

* If you never met his ex wife or his children, then all this is a third person’s account, that is, your boyfriend’s account. When thinking of all possibilities in a situation, then it is a possibility that he doesn’t want to proceed to live together and marry you and is using this story to buy time.

If his story is true, you met the kids perhaps, spent time with them and their mother started to harass them about it (a more likely scenario) then this woman, their mother, is not  only abusive to her kids when it comes to his relationship with you, but she is abusive to them otherwise. A mother who punished her children with “tantrums and threats” is not likely to limit her tantrums and threats to one issue. If it works for her in one context, she will use it in another context, for example, if her 17 year old dates someone she disapproves of, or.. if her 11 year old doesn’t want to eat his broccoli (a wild example, but it happens).

If you look at the US federal website regarding child abuse: w w w.  childwelfare. gov (no spaces), it states there: “Federal legislation provides guidance to States by identifying a minimum set of acts or behaviors that define child abuse and neglect. The Federal Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA).. defines child abuse and neglect as, at minimum: ‘Any recent act of failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation’; or ‘An act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm.'”-

– according to what you shared, his ex wife is emotionally harming her children, he knows it and fails to act on what he knows (by seeking sole custody, for one.. and by mentioning you to his children and their mother, knowing this mentioning will lead to (more) abuse done to them.

Under “Reporting Child Abuse and Neglect”, on the same website, it states: “Each state has a system to receive and respond to reports of possible child abuse and neglect. Professionals and concerned citizens can call statewide hotlines, local child protective services, or law enforcement agencies to share their concerns”-

– I think you qualify under “concerned citizen” to share your concerns about his 11 and 17 year old kids.

In summary: people turn a blind eye to emotional child abuse because there is so much of it, and because there is no blood or broken bones involved, but emotional child abuse often does lead, over time, to illness, injury and death (ex. by drug overdose and other risky behaviors), in addition to the emotional suffering before visible injuries and death.

Like I wrote before, this story goes beyond a relationship between a man and a woman.

anita

You are very welcome, Malena. Post again anytime you want to, if you do, and I will be glad to reply to you.

anita