Home→Forums→Tough Times→Can people really change?
- This topic has 7 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 4 months ago by Rose.
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August 9, 2014 at 8:32 am #62930IreneParticipant
Hello everyone,
I’m currently in a bad shape and been doing a lot of reading either from TB or other self help articles and website. The issues that i have revolve around self esteem, negative self talk, resentment, traumas and victim mentality. What I’ve been questioning is: “Can we really change?”.
Everybody have their own issues that they’ve been carrying for years, some maybe for as long as they can remember. Can our effort of daily struggling to change our self really work in the long run? Or it is just a temporary thing that you do while you’re in bad place and when the situation somehow get better you fall back to your old ways?
I’m sorry if this sounds absurd but i need wiser people to clear this up for me as i keep having this nagging feeling that what I’m trying so hard to change and be better at is just gonna go down the drain once things start to look up. And honestly, i don’t want that. Has anyone have the experience to share where you really managed to change something so deep rooted inside you?
Thank you 🙂
August 9, 2014 at 9:14 am #62934The RuminantParticipantHello again Irene,
Yes, my fundamental belief of my own worthiness has changed, and I can never unchange it again (which is a good thing). My personality hasn’t changed and of course there are still good days and bad days. Still, my whole life has changed for the better.
That’s about it, in a nutshell 🙂
I view us people and our personalities as kind of like an unique image in a tainted glass. The image in itself does not change, but it looks different depending on whether there is light coming through it or not. We all have capabilities and personalities that are neither good nor bad, but we can use them for good or bad, reflecting how we feel about ourselves (and as an extension about the rest of the world). Someone who is in pain might use their abilities to hurt other people. It’s not because they would be fundamentally a bad person, but because they believe that that is what they are. If that belief can be changed, everything else would change as well, even though it would stay the same. Does that make sense?
The moment you truly understand that you are worthy of love, you’ll automatically change your behaviour to be healthier. Instead of just treating the symptom (though that is a good idea as well), you’ll need to treat the actual cause. After that the environmental factors don’t rock the boat as much as they do when things are a bit shaky.
- This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by The Ruminant.
August 9, 2014 at 9:58 am #62939IreneParticipantThank you for replying Ruminant, and do i need to mention that it’s you who made me realize that i have victim mentality? Thank you! From my experience, the change that i made regarding myself are usually temporary before i tell myself that i can do it and that i “graduated”. But when hard time arise, everything i learned flew out of the window. I’m trying to treat the actual cause but it’s way to tangled for me to even know which is the real cause. how do you get to the bottom root?
It’ll be very encouraging for me to hear the ups and downs of people on TB about how they make positive changes stay in their life.
August 9, 2014 at 10:27 am #62941The RuminantParticipantIt is good to see some of our own behaviour patterns, but do look at it from a neutral perspective and do not use it for any kind of self-shaming. We all do the best that we can with what we’ve got and how we’ve learned to deal with things. Our world view is based on our experiences and if the experiences haven’t been that good, it’s easy to fall down and stay there, unable to get up, because we firmly believe that we belong there.
I look at root causes as the really, really fundamental beliefs. Believing to be deserving and worthy of love, care (physical and emotional), compassion, and so on. Not entitled to, but worthy of them. What ever would be the cause for someone thinking that they’re not worthy of those things is actually kind of unimportant in my opinion. What ever it is that caused it did cause it and is in the past, and now we just have to get back on track.
The entanglements can be solved with meditative practices. Get rid of the clutter, and don’t dwell on it too much. I know it’s easier said than done, but I’m trying to be simplistic for the sake of portraying a picture that is easier to understand.
I had a rather spiritual experience in an Al-Anon meeting where I realised that as much as I longed to be loved, I never actually allowed myself to be loved. I didn’t let anyone in my heart. In that moment, I decided that I will allow love in. I focused on my own heart and aimed all the compassion that I could muster towards it. I also silently asked to be loved. I felt this surge of energy flowing in, and I wish I could say that it felt great, but I actually felt really nauseous and I could feel my muscles tensing up, trying to prevent this feeling from happening. But I was determined and powered through, and it was then that I truly realised that it was always me who didn’t allow the love in, and that the love was always there. It was I who saw myself as unloveable, and out of fear decided to keep my heart shielded. That love has never left my heart. There are good days and there are bad days. I fall down sometimes and then I ask for help and get back up. The general direction is still upwards. I don’t think I could ever fall into an abusive relationship again, because my view of myself is so radically different. I, as a person, am still the same, but I light up differently. I feel balanced and there is much, much less clutter in my mind.
What I wanted to illustrate with my story was that it was something very simple that happened to me that changed everything. It wasn’t the only thing, and I still keep learning clearer ways to see things. I’m not sure if such an exercise would work for everyone. The place where I was at that point was also very healing, as it was a support group, and I was in a particular state of mind, really ready to finally accept love, no matter how scary it felt like and knowing that I had to be humble to accept it. But it was still very simple and the key wasn’t to understand everything that had happened in my life which has lead me to that point of being in that support group meeting in the first place. The key was so simple and it was always there, had I just chosen to use it.
I was also completely unable to make any lasting, positive changes before I changed my core beliefs. I was always in an emotional whirlwind and always thinking and trying to understand. So don’t fret. I know how frustrating it can be when you try to change things, and you keep falling back down, but it doesn’t have to be like that forever.
- This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by The Ruminant.
August 9, 2014 at 10:59 am #62944MattParticipantIrene,
What you’re experiencing is normal, natural, and part of growing. We don’t suddenly just realize and become free, graduate, rather its a process of erosion, weeding, envisioning, and replanting.
My teacher explained this in terms of meditation. We notice our unkempt mind, so we sit in meditation, come to a place of inner peace, then get up. Maybe for 5 minutes we have that peace, before the world seems to pull us away, mind becoming unkempt again. Next time, maybe 15 minutes before it does. Even when our inner peace lasts the whole day, and we don’t feel unkempt, we still go the cushion. Normal, natural, and we just keep going back to the cushion.
Said differently, its normal for pain to move us to seek health. Then, as the pain erodes, our focus of on health erodes. At some point we get tired of that game, and just keep growing our health even when we are happy. We don’t just meditate when its rainy, using meditation as an antacid for an upset mind… rather, we become proactive, as a matter of routine and upkeep and because we deserve it, we go to the cushion rain or shine. Like eating raw vegetables consistently, because we know the fiber helps us digest and the nutrients nourish our body, rather than waiting until we feel fat, have heartburn, diarrhea, and so forth.
Learning happens when we don’t grab the cookies, even when we feel the “mmmmmm, tasty” to grab them. Nope, grab some carrots, feeling the joy of it now and later, rather than “yum” now and “ooof” later. 🙂 Graduation, to me, is when we don’t feel any habitual drive to eat the cookies, and eat cookies or carrots based on what feels right in that moment, finding our balance between celebration and nourishment.
With warmth,
MattAugust 9, 2014 at 11:43 am #62953BenzRabbitParticipantIrene,
Matt gave you a great answer above.
Everything comes down to your own desire for change and your determination to keep it !
God bless !!
August 11, 2014 at 6:11 am #63073WillParticipantMatt’s answer is good. I can also feel with the Ruminant’s experience. I am the same, yet slightly better. And I still have good days and bad, and sometimes, when I’m sleep deprived or something happens that digs right down to the root of my weaknesses, it all goes out the window for a moment and I’m as bad as ever. But I get back out of that mire more quickly now. And it doesn’t happen so often, now.
Keep practicing. You don’t graduate from eating your greens (as Matt says) or brushing your teeth or getting up on time or being kind to people. It takes less deliberate effort as you get into the habit, but you keep doing these things. That’s what change is, remembering to do the things that are helpful.
August 11, 2014 at 10:26 am #63105RoseParticipantI’ve asked myself the same question many times. I’m glad I saw this forum, because these answers have helped me see the issue of changing in a different light.
I think it’s all a matter of mentality. That’s the conclusion I’ve come to, at least for myself. I have some of the same issues that you do. I’ve been a negative thinker for as long as I can remember. The mind really is a powerful thing…I’ve gone back and forth many times battling the negativity with positive thinking. It’s normally only a day or so before something pisses me off and I’m back to my old ways. But I am bound and determined to never go back this time 🙂 we can do it!!!!!
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