December 24, 2020 at 9:10 pm #371577
It’s funny how my comments are judged as inappropriate if they don’t tell you what you want to hear. I read *EVERY* word you wrote just as much as the other people who responded but you only shot down the comments that were trying to get your to cut through the nonsense. I pointed out a lot of things jump out as obviously dysfunctional and you took them as a personal attack. You get bent out of shape because it is the harsh truth you obviously don’t want to face. I can see from your follow up comments that you only value “advice” that tells you to keep wondering and analyzing even though a million tangible and obvious signs point to this “relationship” being a waste of your time and energy. I think you are desperately seeking any microscopic nugget of hope and are making up stories in your head and a narrative to hold on to that hope.
You don’t understand men – if they want you to know you’re special THEY WILL TELL YOU. If you’re “confused” or it’s back and forth or hot and cold that’s a sign he’s not as into you as you want him to be. Women who get obsessed with a man often like the confusion because there’s just enough good and positive stuff to outweigh the bad or confusing stuff….all while he never fully commits. So you’re going to analyze this “relationship” to death so you can keep wondering and waiting for that moment that unfortunately, is never going to come.
Re: “I don’t know what to think Anita, as I go back and forth between feeling like he only sees it short-term, to also being confused by some of the things he says and some of the actions he makes. Also these new revelations seems to discredit what you have said in the past, no? I Do you still believe that he has trouble opening up with people because of his parents, or do you think it is just me he has trouble doing this with.” <<—— This is classic “confused” woman trying to analyze a man’s actions to find some tiny shred of hope.
Re: “Therefore he would need to seek out other women to reinforce that I am truly not or truly am what he is looking for.” <—- NOPE, that’s definitely not true. I’m not sure how much experience you have actually dating but a person can DEFINITELY know someone is not the one without dating others to compare them to. This is just another method you have of tricking yourself into believing that there’s hope and he might “Come around” to pick you after he’s tried other women. No, it’s not going to happen.
Re: “I also don’t think he would’ve been so distraught at the idea of losing me over the summer. He was severely depressed for the weeks that we weren’t talking or seeing each other much. I feel like men who have not really wanted to be with me and have been fine to move on and seem to feel relief when it’s over.” <<—–This (again) is you trying to make up something that isn’t there to hold on to that sliver of hope (again). You’re trying to act like he’s not in touch with his emotions and that his angst might be a sign of how much he loves you and can’t admit it.
Re: “I’m confused as to why he would want to come to my family’s house and get involved with them again if he only sees it as short term” <—– Men do this all the time. He likes your company enough to be involved to a certain level but he won’t make a full commitment. This is the “placeholder” concept I tried to tell you about earlier that you ignored. And here it is happening again.
Re: “black and white.” Some things in life ARE black and white. Yes, really.
Since this is a BUDDHA / Buddhism site study the concept of ATTACHMENT: You’re not willing to let go. You’re wayyyyyyyy too attached to a fantasy in your head of what you want and not accepting the reality of what IS.
LIFE LESSON: When a man leaves you “confused” it’s a BIG RED FLAG that he’s not the one. When a man is crazy about a woman he tells her, his actions will match his words, he won’t be hot & cold, he won’t pull back …and you won’t have to chase him.
But it ALL comes down to this: ““He keeps saying that (he) loves me, in a way, but I am not his one and only. He says it so robotically that I don’t know how to believe it”- he said it robotically- robots do not have intuition.”
If he is telling you right to your face that you are not “The One” – believe him. It doesn’t matter what his tone of voice was. Stop doing the analyzing that women trying to find an “out” or mixed message that will give you a sliver of hope. Yet your comment of “I don’t know how to believe it” means you’re trying to read something “Confusing” into it to hold on to that hope.
HE”S TELLING YOU YOU’RE NOT THE ONE. That’s the truth.
You’re FAR Too emotionally involved with him to see this clearly but his honesty is a gift. It’s a sign to stop investing and move on to someone who will value you. You have to understand and accept that a person can love you (on varying levels) but not want to fully commit EVER. It happens ALL the time. That’s you.
The only thing left in all of this with you and him is figuring out how you can let go.
I’m sure you’ll flag this response too since it isn’t sweet and fluffy and giving you hope but if you took a hard look at how much wondering and confusion you’re CONSTANTLY dealing with you’d know I’m right.
You’ve written enough to fill a small novel about a man who won’t fully commit and that was obvious all along. Do you really not understand what is happening here? I think you’ll be here in 2021 grasping on to the slightest positive sign while you continue in your “confusion” about this man and his intentions.
You may not be old enough or mature enough to know this but that is NOT love.December 24, 2020 at 9:10 pm #371578
How can you assume he is “Too scared to love a woman” without actually asking him how he feels?? Your assumption could be wrong. What really matters is that he is not loving Michelle the way she wats to be loved. He might be able to love the right woman for him when he meets her. Maybe he has just not met “The One” yet.
The bottom line is that it really stops there.December 24, 2020 at 9:11 pm #371579
“I have been thinking a lot about why he rejects the commitment, and I do agree that it seems to be a lack of self esteem on his part and the belief that perhaps if he lets me in that I will abandon/reject him.”
It’s because you’re not The One.
“I do wonder about his past and if he was ever cheated on. He still has not disclosed anything about prior relationships, but has opened up in other ways slightly.”
You’re not his shrink. You don’t need to analyze his past to get him to love you.
“It’s strange. The way he has weaved himself into my life. The way he cares about insignificant things. ”
<b>You’re obviously trying to interpret this as some “hidden” love he has for you but that you think he won’t admit. That’s wrong. When a man loves a woman she doesn’t need to hyper-analyze his actions for hidden clues of love. He simply tells her and shows it. </b>
“But I dare not ask questions. I still feel extremely connected to him and even more so after all of this time. The more I look back on our story, the more fated it seems. I remember how I felt before I even met him. I just saw his picture and I thought “that’s my one”.
<b>This statement just shows that since you feel this way everything he does is incorrectly colored by your “fated to be together” interpretation.</b>
““Lately he has been especially romantic, taking me on dates, taking time off of work for me”- one would think that it means that this is leading to a long-term relationship, but what if him being especially romantic etc., is possible for him because it is clear in his mind that this is a short-term relationship.”
Here you go again wanting to see romance in everything he does. You seem to lack a fundamental understanding that a man can be great IN THE MOMENT but still know deep down that he won’t marry you or you’re not ‘The One.’ I cannot stress enough that he very likely sees you as a placeholder (someone to enjoy) as he travels along in life waiting for “The One” or someone who knocks him off his feet. Believe me, if he meets her, he’ll drop you and stop “Acting” like a boyfriend.
** IT DOES NOT MATTER IF A MAN IS ACTING LIKE A BOYFRIEND IF HE HAS NOT MADE YOU HIS GIRLFRIEND. ** Titles and real commitment matter way more than acting like a boyfriend.
“I also recently had a bit of a pregnancy scare, and he reacted rather well. He just said it would be my decision and he would support me. Now when my period is a bit late, he says “oh do we have one on the way”… He said the only thing that scares him about it, is that he doesn’t know how to talk to babies.”
OMG – USE CONDOMS!!! Do you really want to be having kids with men who are not committed to you? That is really not wise. Why does it matter what he thinks if he wouldn’t be the father? Did you tell him about the “scare” to see if he would get jealous? He obviously didn’t get jealous at all. << —- That’s a sign he’s not invested in you deeply. He doesn’t care if you sleep with other men or have kids with them. I think you’ll ignore this though.
” Something that is truly yours cannot be lost. If you need to hold on to it, you’re grasping and it will be manipulated into something that isn’t true”
But you just said you thought you were “FATED” to be together. I think you pretend to be casual and cool about things not working out but really you’re hyper-attached and are going to hang on until he hits you in the face with a frying pan screaming “I don’t love you!!!!” I think that’s the only way you’ll wake up and realize it’s never going to be a real committed relationship again.
I think you’ll reject this “Advice” and come back with another 20 examples of how he’s “acting like a boyfriend” and how “confused” you are and how you’ll psycho-analyze him until the end of time hoping he’ll wake up one day and declare his formal love for you.
It’s not going to happen and writing 3000 more words about it won’t change that. Sorry.December 25, 2020 at 6:35 am #371681
There are so many things wrong with your reply and so many things to reply to. You have so much of it wrong and you clearly did not ready through my posts. I am not sleeping with other men and no I wouldn’t tell him about a pregnancy scare to make him jealous.
Perhaps you have been wronged by men in the past, I’m not sure why you keep such a singular view, but you keep it with such a fervent measure. You’re discounting all relationships that ever proved to be confusing or hard or requiring of patience with your view. I have a friend who said I love you to her husband and he didn’t say it until a year later and they’re married with kids now. Not every man who can’t express how he feels is a waste of time or user looking for the next woman.
He may very well not see me as the one and there may very be a better woman out there for him, but that doesn’t exclude the possibility that he does close himself off from people he gets close to and that he uses excuses to keep them at a distance. There is a reason why there is psychoanalysis. The human mind and early experiences are very diverse and shape us all in different ways. I am slowly watching and hearing more about his experience. I am not trying to force conversations that he sees as hard. Even his own sister has expressed that he’s a difficult one to figure out.
Anyways I don’t need any more of your analysis chickadee, thank you, but it’s not an analysis that I’m unfamiliar with. I’m not rejecting it to fit so schema in my head either. Most of the time I tell myself how likely it is this won’t work out. I’d be surprised if it did, but it doesn’t mean our connection is worthless or that I need to drop him like a hot potato. I’m aware of what is going on and I don’t feel that I am being used. Please do not respond to my thread anymore. I am looking for analysis that is kind and open minded and seeks to uncover truths that might be a little more hidden than I believe your type of analysis can account for. That’s just what peaks my curiousity. I believe your more Frank and black and white approach may suit certain situations and with other relationships I may have benefited from it, but not with this one.
Respectfully, Michelle.December 25, 2020 at 7:50 am #371684
I am not surprised that you are familiar with his attachment styles and aware of his particular one. Regarding his sister telling you that she had a good childhood and that “she also doesn’t understand how he views their parents marriage as being so poor”- that’s very, very common that children and adult children view their childhoods as good when it was not. Children apply convenient (make-believe/ nostalgic) thinking so to feel better, and unless corrected, this thinking extends to adulthood.
‘It’s perception, right?”- an inaccurate, and sometimes very inaccurate perception, does not make it reality. A person can not pick and choose reality based on what he or she prefers it to be. Reality is what it is.
Regarding the recent messages you received from another member- I want to attend to them because there is a lot there to learn from. First, I want to address the delivery: it is rough/ aggressive- I am sorry for this rough “gift” presented to you just on time for Christmas.
The following makes her delivery aggressive, she:
(1) uses LARGE capital uppercase letters- looks like she is screaming in your face,
(2) uses bold print- similar to the first,
(3) uses You-s repeatedly with attached critical/ disapproving messages: “You only shot down… You get bent out of shape… you only value ‘advice’…This (again) is you trying to make up something… You’re trying to act like.. You’re wayyyyyyy too attached to a fantasy…. You’re not willing to let go… you’ll reject this ‘Advice'”- feels likes an accusing/ disapproving finger pointing at your face, again and again,
(4) uses sarcasm (using words that show irritation, meant to insult a person): “It’s funny how my comments are judged”,
(5) uses aggressive/ violent verbs: “you only shot down the comments… cut through the nonsense… You get bent out of shape”,
(6) is being argumentative: “I read *EVERY* word you wrote just as much as the other people… But you just said you thought you were ‘FATED’… This is the ‘placeholder’ concept I tried to tell you about earlier that you ignored“,
(7) is insulting otherwise: “I’m not sure how much experience you have actually dating… Do you really not understand what is happening here?… You may not be old enough or mature enough to know this… You seem to lack a fundamental understanding“,
(8) she is throwing a temper tantrum- the whole three posts are a temper tantrum, except for the one word that closed the long tantrum: “Sorry”.
(9) she presents herself as The authority figure, a god of sorts that is all-knowing, having monopoly of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, able to read people’s minds/ know people’s unstated intents and able to predict the future: “the harsh truth you obviously don’t want to face… you’ll be here in 2021 grasping on to the slightest… if he meets her, he’ll drop you… it’s never going to be a real committed relationship… It’s not going to happen..”.
(10) is inaccurate: a. she quoted me and assigned those quotes to you, b. she went on a tangent with a Fictional account of you trying to make him jealous and him not caring if you sleep with other men.
* I want to continue with a second post shortly.
anitaDecember 25, 2020 at 8:58 am #371685
Again, I am sorry you received this “gift” on this day. It really is an assault, not a gift, and it strengthens my resolve to do-no-harm to others best I can.
Her delivery killed the few points that I agree with. I will present them without uppercase letter, bold print, accusatory you-you-and- you-s!, sarcasm, aggressive verbs, arguing, insulting, presenting myself as an authoritarian, all-knowing, future-predicting god; without inaccuracies, best I can, and I will not be throwing a temper tantrum (not on Christmas Day, and not on any other day).
The points I agree with:
(1) I see some desperation in you, a desperation for this man that at times is too strong.
(2) I see this desperation fueling a tendency to at times, look for any and every possible evidence that is compatible with what you hope to be true; possibly interpreting his expressions and behaviors in ways that favor your hopes,
(3) If you want to be The One for him (the one he wants to be with for the rest of his life), then at one point and on, if he still tells you: you are not The One for me, then it is time to believe him and no longer doubt his words/ no longer analyze the mental/ emotional goings-on that behind his words.
Additionally: I personally do not believe in fate in the contexts of relationships, I view this belief as convenient-thinking, that is, a thinking that is comforting but is not true to reality.
* She wrote, “I cannot stress enough that he very likely sees you as a placeholder (someone he enjoy) as he travels along in life waiting for ‘The One’ or someone who knocks him off his feet”-
– I appreciate the “likely” in “very likely”- a rare exception to the all-knowing-almighty expressions elsewhere, and I disagree with this sentence: he is not a man who travels-along in life. I see him as being stuck in significant unresolved old conflicts and obsessive thinking). I don’t think that he is waiting for a woman to knock him off his feet (as in being so wonderful as to resolve his conflicts, end his obsessiveness and make him want to spend the rest of his life with her)- I doubt that he was ever knocked off his feet by a woman, and given that he is 36, he may never be knocked off his feet.
I read your recent assertive and gracious reply to the other member. Post anytime, and again, Merry Christmas.
December 25, 2020 at 9:26 am #371690
- This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by anita.
I agree with most of your point Anita. At times I do feel like I am reaching, but I do not feel that I am knowingly looking for evidence that may confirm what I hope to be true. It’s more that I’ve doubted do much that it can be true (that he loves me and perhaps see a future) that I actually notice when he does something that questions this doubt. So while it seems like I am trying to reaffirm a belief, it is more as though I just really can’t tell what is real anymore.
<p style=”text-align: center;”>I wouldn’t say that I resign myself to the idea that things are fated completely. I don’t really believe this, I think we still have some free will within the framework. I do believe that people come into our lives for different reasons and that each person that we form unique bonds with has purpose for our lives. The things that feel fated with this man are more like synchronicities than a belief that we have to end up together. I believe more in what is revealed is what is meant, so I don’t hold the preconceived idea that I have to be with this man. I feel a kinship with him. We lived within a block of each other growing up in a large city, and there was no way I would’ve known this until meeting him. We also worked in the same plaza inna different location at the same time. His sister and me worked at the same spa within a few months of each other, etc. Odd things like that, that I guess could be coincidences. I just feel that my life is tied to him in odd ways.</p>
Like I’ve said before I would rather it be neat and tidy. I’d rather believe I am not the one for him and we could go on in our lives and he could find the one. Usually when someone tells me it’s over and done they don’t continue to pursue me and build experience with me, but besides that point, I am usually happy to believe them because usually it reaffirms for me that THEY are not the one. I had one boyfriend tell me this in the past and I accepted it and moved out from our living situation but I did not fully believe him. Within a month he wrote me a letter about how much he wanted to be with me and was going through something and we were together for three more years. Sometimes what someone says at face value just doesn’t add up or feel right, as much as it would be easier and neater if it did. That’s the problem I’m having here. I always think of Shakespeare “doth though protest too much”. I feel as though something is off when this man tells me he doesnt see me as the one, which hasn’t been recently btw. I feel as though he is almost creating this as the story for himself to fit what suits his defense mechanisms. But anyways beyond all the psychoanalysis, I know I have to do what is healthy for me too eventually. And I may just kindly need to take time for myself eventually. I do hope we are in each other’s lives as friends for life. Because even if we both find other partners there is nothing more beautiful than a friendship that stands the test of time. I still feel that we are changing each other.
Sorry for the block of text. This is on my phone. Can’t really edit well without my computer.December 25, 2020 at 10:49 am #371693
Your text is clear enough to me.
You made an interesting distinction in your first paragraph, paraphrased (and please correct me if I am paraphrasing wrong): it is not that you are drunk on love, feeling loved by this man, and in that state of mind you interpret anything/ everything he does as loving. What it is, is that your state of mind is that of feeling unloved by him (“doubted .. that he loves me”), and being in this state of mind, when he acts lovingly- it gets your attention, as a surprise.
But then, you “just really can’t tell what is real anymore“-
– this, right here, is The Problem, as I see it. This problem needs to be attended as first priority: it is more important that you know what is real than it is that he loves you in one way or another.
“I do hope we are in each other’s lives as friends for life”-
– then how about this, what if you tell him today something like this: (name), I hope that we can be in each other’s lives for life, as friends, if nothing else. As a friend, I need your help today: I don’t know what is real anymore, sometimes I am okay not knowing, at other times I am confused and it disturbs me to be confused. This is what I am confused about: on one hand, you told me that I am not The One for you, (meaning that you don’t see me as a girlfriend or wife long-term), but on the other hand, it seems to me that you do love me in a way that will make you realize sooner or later that I am The One for you. Can you help me with my confusion: if you are absolutely sure that I am not The One for you, please tell me. If you are not sure, if there is any part of you that feels that I may be The One, please tell me.
What if you said that to him, or did you already (it is difficult for me to imagine that I can come up with something you didn’t come up with already)?
anitaFebruary 15, 2021 at 10:15 pm #374727
So today I became very brave. We had a lovely Valentine’s Day together and he made us a steak dinner and I bought him some chocolate. He bought me ice skates so we could go ice skating. I was satisfied, but at the same time growing as confused as ever, because a year ago we were broken up and he didn’t see a future. I also spent a second weekend in a row with his family and his sister and her kids and he bought presents for them and said they were from us. More acknowledgement of us as a couple.
So I decided on some questions I could ask. First I asked if he was still seeking other women on the dating apps. It seems that I caught him off guard. He said he still had the apps but he found them ridiculous and was only using them for people watching and he was not interested in seeing other women. Just a reminder this statement comes about a month or so after I told him I would be off them for good. I played dumb and said “but don’t you want to meet someone else” because that had always been what he’d been telling me. He said no I don’t like other people and I have you. And I pushed further and said but I thought you felt there was someone else out there for you and he just said “no I don’t want to meet anyone else anymore.” Then he asked again if I was.
So I left that and we went on with our day, but I was still curious if this was just some stuff he was telling me to appease me. So I waited and wrestled back in forth with it in my head, should i just leave it or should I ask him. I promised that if the answer was no I’d try to start dating again. So we lay down cuddling and he asked how my Valentine’s was, and I came up with the courage and blurted “would you even consider living together?” before I could chicken out. He seemed to respond rather quickly and said “maybe, but where would I put all of my stuff?” It seems that he’s been pondering on his own. I told him we could get rid of my stuff but I didn’t expect him to move here. Maybe he’s been considering here because of the cheap rent hah. I said I thought it was too far from work and he said it probably is. I wasn’t going to let him off scotch free, so I said well maybe when you move out again soon, we can have a trial where I stay with you for a bit and if it makes you uncomfortable I can leave, no questions. He said he would think about it. MAJORRR progress. I feel, from him telling me he’d never be with me and didn’t see a future. I’ll take it for now, even if he takes it back. It just feels like one giant leap for womankind, everywhere, who deal with men and their commitment issues and have some patience.February 16, 2021 at 7:05 am #374738
It’s a pleasure reading your recent post here and your reply on another member’s thread: I wasn’t feeling great this morning and I just realized that after reading your update I am feeling pretty good, so thank you!
I re-read your 2020 Jan 6 and Jan 27 posts. Jan 6, before the breakup, you wrote: “We are exclusive.. with some probing, he has said he is on board with a relationship with me, and is not interested in dating anyone else.. but he is not vocal about declaring exactly what he wants, nor about how he feels. He is most demonstrative in action and consistency… I quite surely have an anxious attachment style”.
On Jan 27, you wrote: “My boyfriend of 5 months and I just broke up yesterday.. He came over to my apartment.. somehow got on the topic of marriage and how he doesn’t see it for himself. He thinks his parents have an unhappy marriage..”
The breakup was on Jan 26 2020, and it seems like it took Jan 26 2020 – Feb 15 2021 for the two of you to get back to where you were on Jan 25 2020. The reason I bring this up is that I am concerned in regard to what you referred to as your anxious attachment style. I know that you learned a lot this year, and it shows in your writing, but I never underestimate anxiety.
Even though you learned a lot and succeeded- if you are not mindful of your attachment anxiety every day, the anxiety can take over one day- when you are very tired or are especially upset- and undo your success. It may be that let’s say you and him move in together and because you live together, the anxiety rears its ugly head, motivating him to probe him, to question him, to.. demand that he will be different from who he is.
He is probably the same person he was on Feb 6 2020: “not vocal about declaring exactly what he wants, nor about how he feels”- let him be this way, be very easy on the probing (“with some probing”), and repeat to yourself that for as long as he is “demonstrative in action and consistency”- that’s good enough for you!
Keep posting here for as long as it helps. When you feel the anxiety intensifying, post here instead of seeking reassurance from him. Again, glad to read your posts today!
anitaFebruary 16, 2021 at 9:13 am #374740
Good advice Anita. I just felt like I needed like a fraction of reassurance and I feel like I waited a good amount of time before I probed again and I feel like it was just enough to see that the progress I feel that we’ve been making, has been seen and felt by him too. I will definitely have to keep working hard to be mindful. Glad I could brighten your day a bit.February 16, 2021 at 9:39 am #374743
You are welcome. Everyone needs some reassurance, and you did well yesterday probing some but not excessively. Probe gently and infrequently, is my suggestion.
anitaFebruary 17, 2021 at 11:28 am #374769
Anita, what do you think about me expressing love again. I almost feel like he’s been trying to express it for a while, and I would like to let him know he can, or give him an opportunity to, but it will probably be easier if I say it first again. What do you think? It’s hard because he didn’t respond the first time and because of what he’s told me in the past. I don’t feel the need to push it, or feel assured. I do feel that he does. I just feel like it could be time to try again.February 17, 2021 at 12:50 pm #374771
In your very first post, on Jan 6, 2020, you wrote: “I have almost let ‘I love you’ slip twice… As an anxious individual, naturally in the past I’ve required a lot of reciprocation and I would declare ‘I love you’ to get reassurance in a relationship. This is not the case in this relationship. I am sure that there is care although I am not sure that he is aware of his own feelings yet.. I am okay with him not reciprocating and progressing at his own pace… I am really trying to be as mindful and delicate as I can with it, but I am starting to feel like I am holding a grenade”.
What I italicized is your what you felt at times but not most of the time. Most of the time you were anxious, you needed reassurance from him just as you needed it in previous relationships, and you were not okay with him not reciprocating. That grenade you mentioned was your strong desire for him to reassure you, to return your I-love-you once you say it to him.
Today, more than a year later, you are back to the topic you started with: telling him that you love him (“what do you think about me expressing love again”). You asked me what I think: I think that what is currently happening is that you are anxious/ your anxious attachment style is active, and you want his reassurance and you are eager to get it, the desire for his reassurance feeling like a grenade again. You want to tell him that you love him so that he will say it back to you.
If you tell him that you love him and he does not say it back to you, you are likely to experience distress and anger and bring about another breakup, similar to what happened in later January 2020.
Back to Jan 6 2020, you wrote: “he is not vocal about declaring exactly what he wants, nor about how he feels. He is most demonstrative in action and consistency.. I quite surely have an anxious attachment style”- if you want this relationship to last, you have to find a way to be satisfied with his “action and consistency” and stop trying to get him to express his love vocally, saying the words you want him to say, the words that you think will calm your anxiety.
Thing is even if he told you the exact words you want to hear, you may calm d0wn for just a little while, but too soon, the anxiety will be back and that grenade will cause you to want another reassurance.. and another. You need to address the anxiety with a professional psychotherapist. You are welcome to share more about it here with me, if it helps. I have lots of experience with anxiety- felt a whole lot of it in my life- maybe I can help with ideas about addressing it without risking the relationship you worked so hard to get back to where it was a year ago.