April 13, 2017 at 7:36 am #144843
I am 38 and he is 43. He was separated with 2 kids for a year before we got in contact. when he started approaching me he was in process of divorce. He likes me since high school, but i never gave him chance. When he got in contact with me again for a relationship last year i was controlling but then I found myself drawing into him quickly. He told me he usually dont fall in love quickly and me too but we fell easily for each other. I never been comfortable or secured with anyone before like that in my life. He is soo kind hearted and we agreed on time frame to our serious relation to complete.
After 3 months of being together, he knew his wife was diagnosed with BDP (Borderline personality disorder). He started to get worried about his kids more. He is sooo attached to his kids and ideal father taking care of them always. He used to go to their home whenever he wants and sometimes spend the night in their room feeling the divorce getting closer and he will b away from them later. He told me to bare with him he wont b stable the coming period. I asked him if he needs space, but he refused. I still gave him space and support. Then the divorce happened and he stayed not stable and depressed for almost a month after it (i know not enough) I used to see tears in his eyes talking about his kids. He even said he cried in his room thinking he wont live with them again. I told him before dont mind his kids stay with us whenever they want. I met them and i love them.
Me and him rarely fight and he says am patient and comfortable with me. Even when there is misunderstanding we communicate well. He apologizes when wrong. He again told me he knows he is not himself and should make me happy and not bother me with his problems. But i started to feel bit insecure and worried cos he was acting distant. I got pissed off that he refuse to go out to party one night on valentine, although he told me lets celebrate our 6 months together. Then day after he sent me message he wants a break. I was in shock. Just with a message so easily just like that. I then got pissed off and send him while angry that i was seeing it coming and he doesn’t love me and i was a rebound and me too doesn’t want to continue with someone taking me for granted and not making effort (As i feel in 6 months, he never bought me any thing not even a flower to show he cares) and cold and run away and break with a message. He then asked to meet and talk twice but i refused then said he didn’t want to “end” it this way when i didn’t answer!! Few days after send me message commenting on my pic but I didn’t reply.
After few weeks I called his mother on mothers day and she was so nice and happy and I found him calling me just after it. We decided to meet and talk. I felt he was going to tell me he cant take any step now and its a break up not just a break. I wrote him a letter. Sooo emotional stating what was bothering me lately but apologize if i made things hard on him. I wrote how i felt when we took the break then i read all our old messages full of genuine words from the heart and promises and cant believe it was a lie or over. And what we r going through is only a phase and I understand its hard phase on him after divorce but we have to b in it together and not give up easily from first big obstacle.
We met and he was putting a huge defense. He started by saying he was burdened that i was not happy lately as he was not giving me time and he cant fulfil his word of taking step and cant introduce me to his kids now and he cant tell me to wait for him as he doesn’t know when. So i stopped him from continuing as i felt where he was reaching. Yes I didn’t want to hear. So i gave him my letter cos i cant give it to him if he says he needs a break up. I told him though that he can continue after reading but not do change what he was going to say. But ofcourse i wanted him to. He read it and kissed my hand but not passionately. He felt those r words from my deep heart. Then started again continuing his mission. That cos of my age to start having a family and baby, he tell me to waint and he cant continue. I asked him in the beginning he meant break or break up, he said break. I asked till when, he said he doesn’t know. He said he is trying to think with his mind completely and may b one day i wont b available for him. Then he said he was ready for marriage before his divorce but now he is not ready!!!! He was soooo cold. Not him
Here i couldnt hold my tears and sadness and anger. I started to cry and getting alll what was on my chest since the break started. I blamed him he didnt listen to me when i told him to wait till he finalize his divorce completely but he was after me and insisting. We were in the car and told him remember here in this very spot 8 months ago u stopped here and asked me why i was not giving u chance, why i was putting defence and he cant act normally with me!!! NOW u know WHY i was not opening up,,, cos i didn’t want to get hurt. Was saving my heart from pain But then i trusted u.
He was so cold and said he is upset that i am upset like that. I raised my voice while crying that he should not b sorry for me but for himself. I said it twice. I told him i cant believe how he became so cold and selfish and he should go remind himself of the passion that was between us and the promises and the words.
Then after i got everything out my chest i calmed down then asked him to drive me home.
He sat still and didn’t turn the keys.
He then said noone ever talked to him like that but he wont comment cos I have all the right in what i said. But my words are soo harsh.
I said ok,, i will make it up for your, give me goodbye Hug. I didn’t hug him emotionally i was concentrating on his body language. In the beginning he tapped brotherly tap on my back as still being in control. Then he started to hug me passionately and not letting go. While unbracing i was gonna kiss his check so mistakenly i kissed his neck.
Then i discovered he cried and kept looking on his left. I came near him and asked him why he is doing sooo? Why pushing me away.
He then started to loose his guards down and talk normally. He said he is not stable at all and its not him being soo cold. Not his character.
I told him I forgot telling him a very important thing: “do u think u can get rid of me easily. We were not playing games him as we are not kids” and smiled, and added “Remember when I thanked u for keeping after me and insisting and not giving up and was patient on me”
He confirmed he remembers.
Me: “now it is my turn to do the same”
He started to look to my eyes tenderly and i told him, didn’t u want someone soft whom u can talk to with whatever u feel.
He said he knows he is gonna regret this cos sometimes he is stubborn with himself.
He then said that everyone says someone cant get out of divorce into a relationship but we were already together. I told him even this difficult time we can b in it together.
He stated he has to go through this phase alone. He promised he will call me himself like he did this time.
I told him good he is traveling for a while to change mood and relax. I asked him to read our old messages and not b late on me.
He touched my face and then finally confirmed and said it loudly he misses me so much.
But since then, nothing from him?? now 3 weeks has passed. I know he must have got stressed from my blaming him as he already just got out of an abusive relation ship. I am thinking to call him at easter and act normally and positivly and ask to meet him without opening any sensitive subjects. I feel he is depressed and i want to help him get out of that mood and to revive the early feelings between us, especially that before our break, he wanted to travel, but the chance didnt come and am thinking to suggest to travel as he wanted.
Sorry for a long post, but i need to know how to deal with him while being depressed and getting out of an abusive relation, and win him back.
Thank youApril 13, 2017 at 11:10 am #144923
From reading your post, it is my understanding that you shouldn’t be with him, that you should not pursue him for a relationship, or be otherwise involved with him. You are not compatible with the kind of a relationship that he needs and he is not compatible with the kind of a relationship that you need.
You need a man who does not have children or who is not involved with his children. A man who is removed, emotionally and physically, from previous relationships. He needs a woman who is calm, emotionally stable, reliable, predicatable. I don’t believe you are these things.
anitaApril 14, 2017 at 1:21 am #145017
First thank u for taking the time and reading and responding to my problem. But why u say i am not calm? Is it because I expressed my pain to him about the break up? Is it because i expressed once in 8 month to give me time in an event other than his children. I never complained about his kids or his time with himApril 14, 2017 at 3:34 am #145027
Divorce is horrible, hateful. He has no choice but to put his children first, everything else will come second to that. He is a good father, there’s no doubt of that. And because he doesn’t get to see them as often, and their mother is BDP, it must be a very pressured and worrying time for him. I think he may be so overwhelmed by these events that he feels there is no room for anything else in his life right now and that is why he is withdrawing from you. Perhaps he sees you as one less thing to worry about if your relationship with him is ‘off’. Think of him as a juggler, juggling balls, and trying to keep them all up the air without dropping one on the floor. In that sense, you are the ball he wants to drop for a while, so as to keep the others up there in the air a bit more easily.
If it was me in this situation, I would be keeping in touch, but with no demands, just a simple ‘hello, how are you?’ in a friendly but not intimate manner. And I would be getting on with my own life as if I were single again. I wouldn’t be suggesting traveling to him either, as he would be unable to be too far away from his children right now to enjoy a vacation. It’s very human to want to help someone in this situation, but it seems to me from your post that he doesn’t want your help with his depression (which I think is probably just the overwhelming aspects of the divorce). It might be that he never gets back to you. It might be that he will get back to you at some point in the future. Either way, I think that it would be good for you to put this relationship to one side for now, as that seems to be what he wants you to do.
I hope I have been of some help.
JayApril 14, 2017 at 9:02 am #145045
You are welcome. In my last post to you, I wrote: “He needs a woman who is calm, emotionally stable, reliable, predictable. I don’t believe you are these things.”
You answered: “But why u say i am not calm? Is it because I expressed my pain to him about the break up? Is it because i expressed once in 8 month to give me time in an event other than his children. I never complained about his kids or his time with him”-
Yes, it is the reason. It may very well be that for 8 months you were most calm and patient with him, an angel, a saint of sorts. But all hell broke loose after 8 months as you posted in your original post:
“I got pissed off that he refuse to go out to party one night… I then got pissed off and send him while angry that i was seeing it coming and he doesn’t love me and i was a rebound…(that he was) taking me for granted and not making effort.. he never bought me any thing not even a flower…. He then asked to meet… I wrote him a letter. Sooo emotional stating what was bothering me… i couldnt hold my tears and sadness and anger. I started to cry and getting alll what was on my chest since the break started. I blamed him… He was so cold and said he is upset that i am upset like that. I raised my voice while crying… I told him i cant believe how he became so cold and selfish…Then after i got everything out my chest i calmed down…”
All these emotions didn’t happen AFTER 8 months, but during those eight months. Things bothered you, a lot, but you kept them in, practicing self discipline, not expressing any of these strong dissatisfaction, strong anger at him. And then all-hell-broke-loose, all that dissatisfaction, all that anger exploded out of you. This is very much the behavior characterized in the Borderline Personality Disorder diagnosis.
You wrote at the beginning of your original post: “….I never been comfortable or secured with anyone before… But i started to feel bit insecure and worried…” At 38, you “never been comfortable or secured with” any man. Then you felt uncomfortable and insecure with this man as well.
Some characteristics of BPD is difficulty regulating emotions, impulsivity, outbursts of anger, taking a long time to return to a stable emotional baseline after an angry explosion.
In summary: it is not good for him or for his children to have another woman in their lives who suffers from some of the features of BPD. And it is, I believe, in your best interest to enter competent psychotherapy so to function better in relationships.
.April 14, 2017 at 5:33 pm #145143
So Anita, u say i need therapy cos i expressed that i was hurt him leaving me just after his divorce.After him going after me and not listening to my words to wait till he finalize his papers. I felt used and deceived giving up on our love so easily with just a message from his side.
Yes i was angry and hurt and any woman would feel so. I was insecure when he started to withdraw without no reason and we always have good communication.
I don’t have mood swings like his ex. I read very well about BPD. He used to tell me i am the love he was dreaming of and he is comfortable with me and i am patient.
Yes may be last time i blamed him and was crying. May b its childish that a woman blamed her man and cries and blames him for giving up on our love from first big problem. But it happened and i want to change this. He cant judge me from one insident. I even in the letter apologized if i ever made things harder on him. That is the most thing he commented about after reading that i didn’t make thing harder on him and that is wrong.
Even if he got upset i blamed him, cant he forgive me as i forgive him for hurting me? Cant i make it up with him?April 14, 2017 at 7:31 pm #145151
You got angry with him because he didn’t take you out to celebrate Valentine Day, that was before he suggested a break. After you got angry at him then he told you he wanted a break. Following that, you got angrier at him and you told him (or wrote to him) that you saw it coming, that he doesn’t love you, that you were a rebound, that he took you for granted, that he didn’t make an effort, that he never bought you a thing, not even a flower. Next he wanted to meet you but you refused, again and again.
Finally you did meet with him and sometime during that meeting you raised your voice and cried and told him he is cold and selfish and he should remember the promised he made and the passion that was etc.
This is a lot of drama (excessive expression of anger that is ineffective, distressing to the recipient without the possibility of conflict resolution/ positive outcome) on your part. Now, he was freshly out of a marriage with a woman diagnosed with BPD. He has children that are now living with a BPD mother and he is tormented by not protecting his children from their BPD mother, being worried about them. In these circumstances, do you think he needs MORE drama with a new woman?
It is okay for you to expect to be taken out on Valentine, absolutely. It is reasonable for you to expect the man in your life to spend more time with you, to be more attentive, to buy you a flower- it is okay to want these things, but not from him, not considering his situation. And then, it is not okay to give him hell so to add to his distress.
This is why I don’t think it is a good idea for you to get back with him.
April 14, 2017 at 9:57 pm #145169
- This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by anita.
I am a bit concerned about what you are writing. If I am understanding correctly, it seems you implying that Jesss might have BPD as well. Can you clarify, because she really needs to see a trained specialist for such a diagnosis, which takes time and history to come to such conclusions.
Having re-read what you wrote, maybe it’s the way it is worded that could be misconstrued by the reader. Do you mean Jess’s is showing similar traits (angry, overly emotional etc) that would be familiar to a man who deals with an ex-wife who has been diagnosed with BPD, which would be hard on him (and perhaps triggering) but that you are not implying Jess’s herself has BPD?
I just want to make it clear, I personally feel it is not conducive to speculate or suggest someone has a mental or personality disorder on a forum.
April 15, 2017 at 9:48 am #145255
- This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by Mia.
* Dear Mia: in any one thread, I believe, those who reply should reply to the Original Poster (OP) and not to other respondents. If you’d like to start your own thread, on the topic of your very post above, please do and I will respond there.
anitaApril 15, 2017 at 2:40 pm #145279
Thank you for your concern and comment.
Will try to take it from the good side that Anita meant exactly what i think happened that he already got out of a hard relation and would b afraid to feel any drama or any blaming, especially that i read later on that BPD complain alot and blame and criticize their partner about everything nearly.
And that is what i am trying to solve. Lovers dp forgive each other. Dont they? I love this man and its normal to feel insecure when he start to withdraw. Yes i lost my temper once by messages. And i withdraw when he asked for a break till he called me.
This time i will call him after easter holidays to check on him and have positive spirit and ask to meet him without opening any of the old subjects.
Will not give up on him as he was not giving up on me before. Will show him i am patient and supportive and understand the phase he is going through. I will do as he used to do with me in the beginning.
Please pray for me all of u and wish me success to get things between us back on track.
If any can have any tips to say to solve things, please advise.April 16, 2017 at 8:37 am #145329
I re-read all your posts on this thread (only your posts, not my/others’ replies). I read very slowly in effort to understand better and try to be helpful to you. I will make this reply as gentle to you as I possibly can. Again, my purpose is to be helpful to you, and by being helpful to you, and possibly, through you, to be helpful to him and to his children (in only a tiny, tiny bit).
Through my reading of all of your detailed sharing, he reads like a decent, honest, loving man. I found nothing dishonest or selfish about his behavior. Clearly he felt strongly about you, but it is your behavior that turned him away from you.
You accused him of being selfish, cold and pushing you away, while it is you who were selfish, and it was you who pushed him away. You accused him of hurting you while it was you who hurt him with your harsh words and uncontrolled angry behavior.
You suggested that he deceived you because he pursued you too soon even though you suggested waiting- but that was not deceit. He was emotionally very shaky and needy of support and he found it in you, so he pursued that support. He was honest with you throughout. Forgive him for being human, for needing you. He did not deceive you.
You wrote that you want to win him back. First, please consider if it is at all a good idea for you. If you did win him back, life with him in your life will not be easy. Are you ABLE to be involved long term with a newly divorced man with minor children, a man so troubled by not living with his children? That means he will not be as available to you as you need a man to be; that means you will have to ask less of him and give more, be understanding and less demanding. Are you able and willing to be that woman to him?
To be with him, you will have to change the dynamics of your anger. Instead of bottling things inside and then exploding and bringing up things that you kept inside over time (ex., how he didn’t buy you anything to show he cares), you will need to be assertive on an ongoing basis. You will need to take care of yourself on an ongoing basis. You have needs and wants, you will need to let him know in a RESPECTFUL way, what you need AT THE TIME you need it. And be reasonable about what those things are.
The communication you had with him was not as good as you think it was because you were not assertive with him.
If you win him back by acting as patient as possible, but then, a few months later, you explode again, that will be so very wrong: you will be harming him and by harming him, you will be harming his children. You have a responsibility to not do that.
And you have a responsibility to yourself. Any relationship, to be a healthy relationship, needs to be a Win-Win relationship. Make it a win-win kindly, respectfully, responsibly.
anitaApril 16, 2017 at 1:03 pm #145341
Thank you for ur words thst brought tears to my eyes. Yes, this is what i wrote to him that i was not communicating properly with him about some simple needs. I wrote to him that this break made me realize how much i love him and look at things differently. That i dont want to lose the comfort feeling that was between is no matter what. For me its hard to give or compromise or even sacrific anything without love. For me its not easy to get attached to kids. I dated before divorced men with kids but i was not comfortable or getting along with their kids as i feel for his kids. I even need his kids in my life. I imagin us going out all as a family, playing with them and be friending them and supporting them as i know their mam case and condition and how confused they may be. I know it will not b easy but i see i have the strength inside me that can do it.
And yes i forgive him. I want to apologize to any word of accusation i told him at a hurt moment. And although he said I didn’t make things hard on him, i feel i did. I just want him to give me another chance. I worked on myself lately and thought alot, analyzed and made meditation. I realize what is more important to me. I want also To assure him i am strong for that responsibility.
Yes i will tell him that even if he doesn’t want to continue with me, at least me being in his life helped him through taking a step he wanted to do long time ago to get out of this abusive relation. And i will be there for him whenever he wants me.
Am sending him a spring song tomorrow For easter. Cheerful hopeful song her from our country. It says with meaning to close all the bad subjects behine us and just meet without excuse.
I hope he replies. I will ask to meet him to tell me what he did in his last business trip. Then at the end apologize to him. Or what do u think.April 16, 2017 at 8:19 pm #145377
You are thinking of apologizing to him- you can post next your apology, imagining you are talking to him, what will you say?
Once you post it, if you will, I will let you know what I think of your apology.
* Why are you thinking of apologizing to him after asking him to tell you about his last business trip (and not before)?
anitaApril 18, 2017 at 7:18 am #145657
Here is the update.
I sent him yesterday the song , then asked about him. He replied and asked about me too. Then I asked him if we can talk or chat, and he didnt reply. Then asked what he has done in the holidays and when he didnt reply although seeing my message, I told him that I wanted to see him and in sake of what was between us, i need to see him to know what is wrong and i promised I wont give him a hard time, just need to tell him some things.
This last message he saw it this morning, then he called me from work. I was sounding cheerful and smiling and asked about his vacations, and he asked me too. Then tried to laugh about the song i sent him, then told him i want to see him and jokingly without excuse, as the song say,, he laughed and said ok, but not tonight as he is busy, we can arrange tomorrow. I told him i am free after 8 pm tomorrow. He asked me why, i said cos i have a course, he asked me what course.
So, now,, i am meeting him tomorrow hopefully.
There are 2 scenarios i have:
1- To act normally and talk about our days and news, and not talk about anything regarding the past, but try to ease the tension and break the ice. And see how it goes. Only if he asks me what i wanted to tell him, I apologize briefly in general about anything i might have done that bothered him or put him under pressure, or drama, or any stupid accusations.
2- From the start I apologize by getting more in details for anything I might have done that bothered him or put him under pressure, even if he said i didnt make things hard on him, but at the time before the break, i made him feel that I am not happy with him, and got pissed off and accused him of taking me for granted and not making effort, when that was not completely true. I was just sensitive due to the lack of communication that we had before it lately, which we should not leave ourselves to reach this point again, and then refusing to meet him, but may be that was for the best for a while for us to calm down. Then apologize if i said any harsh words in our last meeting, and crying and being dramatic, when he already have been in so much drama lately and got out of an abusive relation, which was so hard on him, and I should have been softer. And Ask him if we can give ourselves another chance to make this work.
I also want to reminder him I am his destiny as he once called me, and that does not mean that we can not start dating again as this should have been the right time to date after his divorce not before, without all the problems he was going through. I also want to tell him, that i need his kids in my life as they will need me too.
JesssApril 18, 2017 at 7:52 am #145663
Regarding apologizing to him, I recommend that you don’t use the word Might, as in “about anything I MIGHT have done that bothered him”, or If, as in “apologize IF i said..”- apologize for what you definitely did and definitely said. When you use the word “might” and “if”- that means that maybe you did say and do offensive things and… maybe not. It makes the apology weak and iffy. You can say something like: I realize I used harsh words, and accusations against you. I was wrong for using those words and for making accusations against you. I regret it”- that would be effective apology.
Regarding reminding him that he said you are his destiny- not a good idea (unless you are trying to make him feel guilty and under pressure)- because people say things that are true for them at the moment but they are allowed to change their minds. When he said you are his destiny, it was not a legal contract, something you can take him to court for, so don’t mention it.
Regarding his kids- I would say it is too soon to address them in the first post break meeting.
* And remember, the words and behaviors you apologize for, do not repeat those later. Not repeating the behaviors that you apologize for is the most important part of apologizing.
Post again, anytime.