July 2, 2021 at 11:35 am #382310
Dear Anita ,
Correct , i sometimes still have flashbacks on how i felt as a child and how i acted in times of distress… and i surely did back then felt that i did something terrible. but looking at my situation right now and because my partner told me that im the devil during our last fight it resonated differently i guess this time or resonated better if it makes senseJuly 2, 2021 at 11:55 am #382316
I didn’t know that he told you that you were the devil. Seems like he heard you saying before that you were a bad person (maybe even calling yourself the devil). Fast forward, he wants to make you feel guilty for not doing what he wants you to do, so he tells you what he heard you say about yourself, so to make you feel bad/ guilty. And.. he succeeded in making you feel badly.
Is this the case?
anitaJuly 2, 2021 at 12:03 pm #382317
i guess probably thats the case, i can bet that i mentioned that im bad when i confessed the cheating repeatedly so i guess yes this is the case.
NatieJuly 2, 2021 at 12:06 pm #382318
but honestly im not sad that he called me this , im approaching it as i mentioned in this post earlier, what if i after everything you have read and i have put him through that he is right that i am the devil or this kind of a horrible human … was this breakup wrong, am i wrong for letting go .. i dont know whats real anymoreJuly 2, 2021 at 12:26 pm #382320
Thank you for addressing me as dearest this time, it feels nice.
“but.. what if I after everything you have read and I have put him through that he is right that I am the devil or this kind of a horrible human … was this breakup wrong, am I wrong for letting go .. I don’t know what’s real anymore”- from reading all that you shared, and based on my experience communicating with thousands of members over the years, I say: (1) he is wrong, (2) you are not at all the devil or any kind of a horrible woman, (3) the breakup was right for you!
Guilt is a very convincing emotion and state of mind, even when it is not valid at all. And this is the case here: this guilt is causing you to believe something that is not true. Unfortunately, you can’t get rid of it easily.
You know the term being “under the influence” in regard to alcohol, right? Well, when you think under the influence of guilt, your thinking is distorted, you just can’t “know what’s real anymore”, just like you wrote. So, best thing you can do is calm down, and only later, when you are calm (and not under the influence of guilty, even if temporarily so)- then think about what is real.
I will be away from the computer for over an hour. You can post again anytime, better when calm.
anitaJuly 2, 2021 at 12:37 pm #382321
Im happy that it made you happy and it felt nice so its always Dearest Anita 🙂
if its not too much trouble, could you please elaborate more on the three points you concluded? it could give me sense of peace and help bring clarity , or at least i hope so.
Thank you for always being unbiased in your answers and always asking questions to understand the full picture. we need more people like you to knock some sense into us
natieJuly 2, 2021 at 2:16 pm #382322
You are welcome and thank you for your kind words! It’s not too much trouble for me to elaborate on the three points:
(1) “he is wrong”- he is emotional, you say, but when you told him about the affair you had with a woman he was not at all emotional, didn’t seem to bother him (maybe because the affair was with another woman vs. a man. I don’t know). Fast forward (8 months, was it?), he brings it up- not because he was in pain about it- but because he wanted to cause you to feel pain. Guilt is a form of pain, and in my personal experience, it is a severe kind of emotional pain. He wanted to cause you severe emotional pain (and he succeeded) for his selfish purpose of manipulating you to do what he wanted you to do.
This makes him Wrong.
(3) “the breakup was right for you!”- it is Right for you to break from a Wrong man
“(2) you are not at all the devil or any kind of a horrible woman”- you are just not. But because you felt like a horrible girl when you brought a bad grade to your mother, and when you otherwise failed to make your mother happy (or to prevent her from being unhappy)- deep inside, you believe that you are a bad girl. An allegedly bad girl grows up to be (in her mind) a bad woman.
This core belief does not disappear without work, over time. You are vulnerable to be made to feel guilty by manipulative people like your ex-boyfriend in the future, for as long as you don’t address and resolve (as much as possible) this untrue core belief. If you want to start addressing it with me, you are welcome. Otherwise, you are welcome to post again anytime, on this topic and on any other topic.
anitaJuly 3, 2021 at 12:21 am #382330
Dear Anita ,
Thank you for the clarification as i now understand better the point of view and it resonates well with me. However, one last question, given everything, would you say that i was controlling as they told me ? was i also wrong in wanting to land a job/ career in an industry i like and not any kind of industry and prepare for my MBA?</p>
Also, yes , i would very much like to start addressing the core belief with you. i would love to hear what did you do to resolve it and how should i start approaching it.
Thanks a million,
NatieJuly 3, 2021 at 7:04 am #382340
You are welcome. “would you say that I was controlling..?”- I would say you were not controlling of him. You were trying to control your life– which is fair, it’s what you are supposed to do.
“was I also wrong in wanting to land a job/ career in an industry I like..?”- no, you were not wrong: it is your life, your career- it is right (not wrong) that you decide what career to choose in your life.
Addressing the core-belief will be difficult. As you do that, you will sometimes feel uncomfortable and want to stop. When that happens, let me know. You are always welcome to stop: there is no pressure from me that you continue when you don’t want to. It is the same principle as the above: it’s your life, you decide!
Also, you may be uncomfortable sharing personal things on a public forum, maybe afraid someone who knows you or your family will be reading and figuring out it’s you, not wanting to embarrass your family by sharing private matters. So, remember to not share any real names (of people or places), and you don’t have to share details that are not relevant, like the very exact ages of people, the titles of their jobs, their looks, etc. Remain vague in regard to some things.
So, let’s start, what happened when you brought a bad grade home: what did you feel when you first got the bad grade, what happened next.. ?
anitaJuly 14, 2021 at 8:20 pm #382872
I hope you are okay, are you?
anitaJuly 20, 2021 at 11:54 am #383138
Thank you so much for checking up on me and im so sorry for getting back to just right now. i was and still am not doing so well, i saw him face to face several times he said some ugly words about the fact that he doubts any guy would want to be with me with my mentality ( not wanting to marry right now and join him at the states because im still not ready and we agreed on marrying at 27 and so i arranged my career and studies to happen prior to that time- i asked him to continue doing our long distance relationship like any other couple but he said that this is not love and im not putting him as a priority then) , he denied everything i have ever done to him and i had to explain everything i did for him and for this relationship for him to finally comprehend some of it. we ended up apologizing , decided to break it off and stay friends, he went back to the states and i stayed at my hometown , he started texting and checking up continuously even after i deleted my social media accounts but now i stopped responding and its been complete silence for the last 4 days and i feel guilty because i agreed to stay friends and see where the future might take us both but it seems like right now i cant do it and im also always thinking of him if he is doing ok or if he is hurting alone away from his family and friends while im here with my family , add to that the fact that i have the confusion of whether this break up was right or i exaggerate things, now the single life looks scary as the dating seen completely sucks “as i have been hearing from friends and family when it comes to their experiences”…
July 20, 2021 at 1:49 pm #383144
- This reply was modified 3 months ago by natie.
Good to read back from you, but not good to read that you are not doing so well.
“I saw him face to face several times he said some ugly words about the fact that he doubts any guy would want to be with me“- his ugly words make him ugly. (His ugly words do not make you ugly!)
“I asked him to continue doing our long distance relationship like any other couple but he said that this is not love..“- it is his right to reject your offer of a LDR.
“We ended up apologizing , decided to break it off and stay friends, he went back to the States and I stayed at my hometown“- so the relationship ended, it is now part of your past, and his past.
“he started texting.. but now I stopped responding and its been complete silence for the last 4 days“- it is supposed to be silent if the relationship ended.. but it did not really end.
“I feel guilty because I agreed to stay friends and see where the future might take us both“- this doesn’t sound like a break up, and.. why be friends with a person who says ugly words to you and who guilt trips you?
“I’m also always thinking of him if he is doing ok“- in your mind and heart, a breakup did not happen yet, that’s why you keep thinking about him
“I have the confusion of whether this break up was right“- like I suggested above, I don’t think you broke up with him yet.
“Now the single life looks scary as the dating seen completely sucks, as I have been hearing from friends and family when it comes to their experiences”- your personal experience with dating can be way better than your friends’ and family’s, if you do it right. (I have dating advice if you are interested).
Post again anytime, if and when you feel like it, dearest natie, and I will be glad to reply further.
anitaJuly 21, 2021 at 5:29 am #383163
its always refreshing to hear back from you.
“I asked him to continue doing our long distance relationship like any other couple but he said that this is not love..“- it is his right to reject your offer of a LDR.- i totally understand and agree with you , its just caused me a confusion because prior to the breakup we used to agree on this ( do LDR for the next 3-4 years) but i guess there was a change of heart and thats fine…
“I feel guilty because I agreed to stay friends and see where the future might take us both“- this doesn’t sound like a break up, and.. why be friends with a person who says ugly words to you and who guilt trips you? – good question, well the rational behind it is that we thought that we first were best friends before being in a relationship and genuinely thought that we could keep this good thing alive between us..
“I have the confusion of whether this break up was right“- like I suggested above, I don’t think you broke up with him yet.- so how would you define a break up ? and how would you approach it while you are still confused about whether you exaggerated the reasons that led to the break up or if they were valid?
“Now the single life looks scary as the dating seen completely sucks, as I have been hearing from friends and family when it comes to their experiences”- your personal experience with dating can be way better than your friends’ and family’s, if you do it right. (I have dating advice if you are interested). – i truly hope so , given that im not someone who is really good at showing emotion and i tend to be an over-thinker and a realist most of the time.Plus, im genuinely interested to hear your advice/advises.
July 21, 2021 at 9:59 am #383170
- This reply was modified 3 months ago by natie.
“The rational behind it is that we.. were best friends before being in a relationship and genuinely thought that we could keep this good thing alive between us“- you proved yourselves wrong in this regard. A non-romantic/ non-sexual friendship between two people is gone forever when romance and sex becomes a new reality. After a breakup, a different kind of friendship is possible for some people, but it is not the same friendship as before. For a lot of people, no kind of friendship is possible after a breakup.
“how would you define a break up?
– I would define a breakup as a time when you are at peace (no longer confused and conflicted) about being broken up.
“And how would you approach (a breakup) while you are still confused about whether you exaggerated the reasons that led to the break up or if they were valid?“- restated, you are not really asking a question. What you are saying is something like this: I am confused, I don’t know if I want to break up with him/ to remain broken up.
You are confused and conflicted, going back and forth in your mind: to get back together- to not get back together. This conflict goes on and on and on, and it is exhausting, isn’t it?
“I’m genuinely interested to hear your (dating) advice“- I’ll be glad to give you dating advice, but you need to really break up and be single again first (no longer confused and conflicted, being on the fence- neither here nor there)!
anitaJuly 21, 2021 at 11:26 am #383171TeaKParticipant
I’ve been catching up with your posts on this thread, since when you posted originally I was on holidays and rarely at the computer. I see that you’re questioning whether it was a good idea to initiate the breakup, and further, whether you’re an evil person, a devil, for focusing on your career first and not wanting to settle down just yet.
This is what you wrote on the subject of career vs settling down:
he wanted to get married from the first year of our relationship and i want to be with you but lets first figure out our careers and do our MBAs and then we can settle.
he said some ugly words about the fact that he doubts any guy would want to be with me with my mentality ( not wanting to marry right now and join him at the states because im still not ready and we agreed on marrying at 27 and so i arranged my career and studies to happen prior to that time-
he always told me he was proud of me and how motivated i am in my career and he feels bad for my bad luck in my unstable jobs but suddenly i was told twice that i was selfish and i put work as a priority because if you love someone you need to compromise and life is short and work in a specific field is not important
im putting alot of effort into my career and studies at least for the next 3 years and refusing to tie the not in the meantime,
im asking too much from a guy to wait all these years ( especially that he met me at 21/22) just for me to start my career and get my MBA , , in his own words ” no guy waits all that long , all i want is to be with you , i dont see why you cant make that happen even if it means to change your entire career you can always find another job..
he saw my latest internship to the UAE ” as a selfish move and that i did it for my own good and not to the good of the relationship” –> which is a point i can not understand till now
we had a huge fight two days ago where he ended up acusing me of being slefish and just want to follow my career
i asked him to continue doing our long distance relationship like any other couple but he said that this is not love and im not putting him as a priority then
It appears that from the start of your relationship, he wanted to settle down relatively soon (presumably after you both graduate?), but you didn’t want that and expressed that to him. You then agreed to get married at 27, after you get your MBA and/or settle in your career. So it seems that in the beginning, he agreed to wait and supported you in pursuing your career and further education first. But after a while, specially after his father’s death, he seems to have changed and started accusing you of being selfish for putting your career first before him.
Would you say that’s true – that you initially had an agreement, and then the circumstances changed, and as a result, his attitude changed too?
It could be that his father’s death was a big emotional shock to him, and suddenly he became more vulnerable, asking you to accommodate for that and change the original agreement (of getting married at 27). But you had and still have the same goals and ambitions as before (nothing wrong with that), and didn’t want to abandon them just like that. So you’re sticking by the old plan, and he’s asking you to change it, for his sake.
I don’t think you’re evil for wanting to accomplish your career goals. I don’t think he is evil either for feeling vulnerable and perhaps lonely, and wanting to settle down sooner. I still think it would be best if the two of you could talk honestly and try to understand each other’s motives. But if every discussion you have ends up in an argument and him accusing you of being selfish, then he isn’t willing to see your point.
What I am noticing as a potential problem is that perhaps he doesn’t feel heard by you, because you tend to immediately offer practical advice on how to reduce his pain. For example, when his father died, you said you were sending him prayers, meditations, suggesting therapy etc, but when talking to him on the phone, you weren’t very supportive but moody, and perhaps he sensed it. Perhaps, rather than hearing about ways to reduce his pain, he just wanted to be heard and his pain acknowledged. Or, when he called you from the US in the middle of the night, crying, you told him to man up and were upset that he woke you up:
3 days after his arrival to the states he called me crying in the middle of the night and i was like really? and i started talking with a high pitch but all my content was me telling him the following ” its tough i know we all been there , i know people who kept on crying for 6 months and wanting to leave and then they survived it ,, i went through this just like you last year and its going to be ok, you need to man up as your father told you ,, etc..” anyways we ended up arguing as he was like why are you screaming why are you acusing me of waking you up , why cant you be more loving by telling me that its ok to go back home or to keep on crying and that its difficult and nothing forces you to stay , etc…
It seems like he didn’t feel heard by you, because you sort of attacked him for calling you in the middle of the night, and then you told him to man up and “get over it”.
You said you were like a mother to him in the first 2 years of your relationship, helping him in so many ways and teaching him how to improve himself. Anita likened your behavior to that of a practical mother. Indeed, you seem to be very practical and pragmatic in your approach: if there’s a problem, you seek to fix it as quickly as possible. But you may be missing the soothing, comforting quality of that “mother” – having compassion and understanding, and simply listening to the other person, being there for them, “sitting with their pain”, so to speak.
It doesn’t mean you need to be a mother to him, either a practical and problem-solving, or a comforting one, but I am just saying that there might be an energy about you where you tend to seek solutions before you really empathize with the person. I wonder if you see any truth in this?