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omyk.
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July 22, 2024 at 11:08 am #435250
omyk
ParticipantHi. A friend of mine recommended I come here for some dialogue. Here’s a snapshot of my story.
I have been a widower for almost three years now. I am 52 and a single parent. I was married for almost twenty years and had a good marriage. We were solid. No relationship is perfect all of the time, so we had our ups and downs, but the one constant was that we kept working on it. I felt like we were growing together. Her death was sudden and unexpected. She went out of town for work – out of the country, actually – and I received the dreaded call.
I got lots of advice in the immediate aftermath. Plenty of unsolicited reassurance from family and others. My in laws told me that they expected me to look for a new partner and remarry soon for mine and my child’s sake. They said this two weeks after i buried my wife! Other friends reassured me that I’ll “find someone.”
In the last two years, I tried dating. I had some good times and got to know three pretty cool women in the process. The last relationship ended in March. I have nothing bad to say about these people. I just felt no desire to get closer, not at all.
I would describe my feelings as follows. I had a good marriage and I’m grateful for it. Yes, I am very bummed that it ended with death, but – I accept it. yes, my life isn’t as good as it was, but – it’s not terrible and I accept it. Yes, I liked living it with someone, but – I am increasingly liking my independence. At least I’m used to it. No vacations aren’t nearly as fun when you travel alone, but I am learning how to do it.
I’m starting to believe that I can grow into this. My child is not asking me to find someone else. And I haven’t really given going solo a chance.
Do I want to fly solo forever? I have no idea how I’ll feel in a year or two. But I can’t neglect the consistency of my previous feeling, of not wanting to have another life partner. Don’t get me wrong – I definitely want friends and companions! But to me, a life partner is a huge deal, the biggest commitment you can make to another person. I don’t take it lightly, having done it before, and I can’t think of a good reason to pursue it right now.
Here is where the accountability comes in. Every once in a while, I have this itch to date again. But the last time I was on a dating app, I didn’t even chat with any of my matches, because on the inside, I was worried that after a few dates, I would feel like I had enough. And I honestly don’t want to use someone who wants to date intentionally. This is not about sex – I have a reasonably strong moral compass and I would want sex only if I was going to actually marry for love. I just feel like I can grow into this (being content as a single middle-aged widower) if I give myself a chance.
I have two challenges.
the first is myself. What system of accountability mechanism can I create to hold off the occasional weird urge to sign up on a dating app? Is it just a matter of self-discipline? if so, I’ll muster up more willpower.
The second is a nosy friend. He is older, and has been on my case to “find someone.” He even told me he’d raise a big stink with me if he caught wind that I committed to remaining alone for any extended period of time. I’m annoyed and have distanced myself from him, and a little extra annoyed because he’s still happily married and somehow seems to think he knows more about post-marital dating just because he’s older than me.
My friend told me that y’all helped her through a tough situation with a borderline bf that ended better than she expected, so I’m hopeful for some wisdom here. A big thank to you all.
July 22, 2024 at 6:30 pm #435261anita
ParticipantDear Omyk:
I am sorry that you lost your wife!
“My in laws told me that they expected me to look for a new partner and remarry soon, for mine and my child’s sake. They said this two weeks after I buried my wife! Other friends reassured me that I’ll ‘find someone.’“- your wife’s parents and friends thought you can easily replace your wife with another woman, just like that! They were after an easy & quick solution to a tragedy that had befallen you.
“I am increasingly liking my independence… I’m starting to believe that I can grow into this… not wanting to have another life partner… I honestly don’t want to use someone who wants to date intentionally. This is not about sex – I have a reasonably strong moral compass and I would want sex only if I was going to actually marry for love… I have two challenges. the first is myself. What system of accountability mechanism can I create to hold off the occasional weird urge to sign up on a dating app?“- respect your liking for independence. I hope that you place your strong moral compass above an occasional urge.
“he’s still happily married and somehow seems to think he knows more about post-marital dating“- he thinks he knows more. Doesn’t mean he knows more.
“My friend told me that y’all helped her through a tough situation with a borderline bf that ended better than she expected, so I’m hopeful for some wisdom here. A big thank to you all.”– please say hello to your friend!
About wisdom: replacing your wife easily and quickly is not a wise endeavor, nor is it respectful to her or to you.
anita
July 22, 2024 at 10:57 pm #435263Helcat
ParticipantHi Omyk
I’m sorry to hear that your wife died. It sounds like you both had a beautiful relationship.
You are doing what is right for you when you say that you don’t want a long term partner. I don’t think that your child will suffer at all from your choice. It was wrong of people to suggest that your wife was so easily replaceable.
You feel bad about dating short term because you know that your interest will dwindle at a certain point.
Perhaps you don’t have to feel bad about it? If you wanted you could be open and honest about your intentions about dating short term. People would be understanding because of your situation. Having a nice time, meeting a new person, there is nothing wrong with that if the mood strikes you.
This next part might depend upon culture.
You don’t want to have sex because that is your boundary. That is fine. There is nothing wrong if that boundary changed one day and you decided that you did want to. Morally sex is fine without marriage. Perhaps the idea of sleeping with someone other than your wife for the first time is troubling you and something that you are not ready for?
You have done the right thing distancing yourself from this nosy friend. It is none of his business and he doesn’t get a say in how you choose to live your life.
Does it matter if you look at the dating app occasionally? If you are in the mood checking out if there is anyone that seems interesting to hang out with is not a bad thing.
Of course if you don’t want to date short term that is fine too and your boundary, your choice. In that case uninstalling the dating app would be helpful.
I’m not trying to sway you in one way or the other. Just trying to let you know that whatever you choose is okay. All you have to do is what is right for you. But if you choose to do something as opposed to not do something, you don’t have to feel bad about it.
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
July 23, 2024 at 10:37 am #435312omyk
ParticipantDear Anita and Helcat,
Thank you for responding. I appreciate it. I appreciate your words, too.
Acknowledging that no two of us are the same, I have learned that sex signifies something much deeper to me. Regardless of how it sounds to someone else, for me, at this point in my life, I want to reserve it for deep love shared in a committed relationship. I understand that it’s something else for others, and I respect everyone else’s freedom to view and practice it how they wish.
A huge part of my upbringing was constantly obtaining approval of elders. I try to be conscious about avoiding acting in an overbearing way with my own child. But I sense that I have been shape to act in ways that others approve of – even if they’re not hear to signal their approval! So, I’m working on that right now. It is really hard work to unlearn and then learn a new way of thinking!
Thanks again, and all the best –
omyk
July 23, 2024 at 11:02 am #435313anita
ParticipantDear omyk:
You are very welcome. “I have learned that sex signifies something much deeper to me… I want to reserve it for deep love shared in a committed relationship“- I admire you for this!
“I try to be conscious about avoiding acting in an overbearing way with my own child“- another thing to admire about you!
“A huge part of my upbringing was constantly obtaining approval of elders… I have been shaped to act in ways that others approve of – even if they’re not hear to signal their approval!“- the elders took hold of part of your brain and their mental representatives are talking to you. It happens to everyone. The inner critic is the part of the brain that replays a parent’s/ elder’s criticisms and even expands on it.
“I’m working on that right now. It is really hard work to unlearn and then learn a new way of thinking!”– it is indeed hard work and it’s another thing to admire about you!
To unlearn the input of the inner critic, when its input is or may be wrong, harsh and punishing, it takes challenging the input, shining the light of truth into it (is it true? Is it false? In what context?). Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is about such challenging.
anita
July 23, 2024 at 11:59 pm #435332Helcat
ParticipantHi Omyk
There are some people who choose to date after their partners die and some people who don’t.
So far you have been on some short term dates.
It is up to you what you want to do next.
I have learned in life that people do what they want to. So it is a matter of figuring out what you want.
I’m not trying to dismiss how you feel. I’m sorry if it feels that way. I’m just aware that you are not going to be speaking here on this forum forever. And years later you may change your mind. You also may not. But it is helpful to remember that incase you ever change your mind about how you feel or what you want that is okay too.
It is a lot to commit to never having a long term partner for the rest of your life and never having sex. A lot of people take solace in having a partner when they reach old age because they help each other when struggling in poor health. That being said, your child could potentially help you. Hopefully, when you get to that age.
So it really it boils down to will you get lonely? Perhaps things will change when your child moves away? Only time will tell.
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
July 24, 2024 at 4:21 am #435334omyk
ParticipantDear Helcat –
You raise a valid point and I received it happily and with a clear mind. My situation is a little complicated. I am a lower ranking minister in my religious community, which is somewhat conservative. When I was widowed, the rules state that I will be removed from ministry if I remarry. I have been doing ministry for more than twenty-five years and was considering taking the next step up when she died. Remarrying or cohabitating means giving up the ministry. A lot of people in our community don’t like this rule, but it’s not the kind of battle you can win. I’m trying to take it all as it comes. I do realize I might feel differently later, and if I do, I think I will have the courage to say that I ministered for several decades and can move on with dignity. I have another source of primary income, so I’m not financially dependent on it. Right now, there is so much on my plate in between single parenting and managing the job I have (there are serious issues at my workplace) that being still sounds very good to me.
What you say definitely makes sense and I am going to try to remain open to all good things, in as much as that is possible.
Gratefully,
omyk
July 24, 2024 at 6:11 am #435335Helcat
ParticipantHi Omyk
Thank you for your kindness. Congratulations on being a minister for 25 years! You are very open minded, your community is lucky to have you.
I see, well at least the rules are very clear so you don’t really need to worry about dating.
I can understand people worrying about you and wanting you to be happy. But you are right it is complicated as a minister and it is really deciding between the life you have lead as a spiritual leader and choosing a more traditional lifestyle.
This is a massive decision and one that will take a lot of time to consider. You don’t have to worry about it right now. It sounds like you are making the right decision for you now keeping things as they are.
It sounds like people in your personal life who have been making comments aren’t really focused on you. They are giving very default advice. Sometimes when bad things happen they don’t know what to say. Or they are suggesting what they might do. It isn’t really a reflection on you.
If you look at the situation from a different perspective and understand the content of their advice isn’t important. It is just the sentiment that they want you and your child to be happy and care is all that is important. As long as you and your child are content, they ultimately won’t care what you choose.
You are right, you do have a lot on your plate already. I wish you luck in parenting and navigating the difficulties with your job.
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
July 24, 2024 at 7:33 am #435340anita
ParticipantDear omyk:
(I am adding the boldface feature to the quotes in this post): “Every once in a while, I have this itch to date again… What system of accountability mechanism can I create to hold off the occasional weird urge to sign up on a dating app? Is it just a matter of self-discipline? if so, I’ll muster up more willpower… sex signifies something much deeper to me… I want to reserve it for deep love shared in a committed relationship… I have been doing ministry for more than twenty-five years and was considering taking the next step up when she died. Remarrying or cohabitating means giving up the ministry”–
– I thought you may be interested in the little research I did this morning on the topic of celibacy in the religious context:
From bbc. com/is it even possible to live a celibate life?: “After another sex scandal involving a senior member of the Catholic Church, questions are again being asked about celibacy. Is it realistic for someone to permanently go without sex?… To the purists, celibacy – derived from the Latin for unmarried – means a permanent state of being without sex… ‘True’ celibacy means a life without both sex and a spouse or partner. Of course, there are many who give it a looser definition…
<p class=”ssrcss-1q0x1qg-Paragraph e1jhz7w10″>”Catholic priests are all men and while there are celibate women – typically nuns – much of the debate tends to focus on male celibacy. Taken in its strictest definition, there is a question mark over whether celibacy is possible. Men are driven by testosterone to want sex, says John Wass, Professor of Endocrinology at Oxford University. Women are driven to a lesser degree by a mixture of testosterone and oestrogen, he explains. ‘I’d regard celibacy as a totally abnormal state.’…</p>
<p class=”ssrcss-1q0x1qg-Paragraph e1jhz7w10”>”Jimmy O’Brien, who left the priesthood to start a family remembers how difficult it could be for young men. ‘You have to fight the urges. For a lot of people it can be a daily battle, others are not so affected.'</p>
<p class=”ssrcss-1q0x1qg-Paragraph e1jhz7w10″>”The power of the mind through exercises like meditation can banish physical cravings, argues Vishvapani, a Buddhist…’There’s no doubt in my mind that some people are able to practice it quite happily. It may sometimes be a bit of a struggle. But the idea that biologically you can’t – that’s false.'</p>
<p class=”ssrcss-1q0x1qg-Paragraph e1jhz7w10″>”Father Stephen Wang, dean of studies at Allen Hall Seminary, says it is a sacrifice that many priests manage. ‘It’s possible when people have an inner maturity and the faith and support structures are in place.’ For him it is no different to the challenge of a husband trying to be faithful to his wife. There is no celibacy get-out in the form of masturbation, says Wang. ‘For every Christian, masturbation, sex before marriage and sex outside marriage are wrong and something you shouldn’t be doing…</p>
“Wang argues that people misunderstand celibacy. It ensures a unique relationship with God and one’s parishioners, he says. ‘It’s not about repression. It’s about learning to love in a certain way.‘ It’s not just priests who are called by the church to be celibate, it’s everyone outside wedlock, he argues. He rejects the link, commonly made in the media, between celibacy and scandal. ‘It’s not true to say that celibacy leads to sexual dysfunction or abuse. Unfortunately sexual scandals are occurring across society in various organisations, and feature married men not just celibate people.”
<p class=”ssrcss-1q0x1qg-Paragraph e1jhz7w10″>-end of my little research. Is there anything about the above that may be helpful to you, omyk?</p>
anitaJuly 24, 2024 at 7:40 am #435341anita
ParticipantRe-submitted (I am trying to clear the post from all the excess print, it may work, or not):
Dear omyk:
(I am adding the boldface feature to the quotes in this post): “Every once in a while, I have this itch to date again… What system of accountability mechanism can I create to hold off the occasional weird urge to sign up on a dating app? Is it just a matter of self-discipline? if so, I’ll muster up more willpower… sex signifies something much deeper to me… I want to reserve it for deep love shared in a committed relationship… I have been doing ministry for more than twenty-five years and was considering taking the next step up when she died. Remarrying or cohabitating means giving up the ministry”–
– I thought you may be interested in the little research I did this morning on the topic of celibacy in the religious context:
From bbc. com/is it even possible to live a celibate life?: “After another sex scandal involving a senior member of the Catholic Church, questions are again being asked about celibacy. Is it realistic for someone to permanently go without sex?… To the purists, celibacy – derived from the Latin for unmarried – means a permanent state of being without sex… ‘True’ celibacy means a life without both sex and a spouse or partner. Of course, there are many who give it a looser definition…
”Catholic priests are all men and while there are celibate women – typically nuns – much of the debate tends to focus on male celibacy. Taken in its strictest definition, there is a question mark over whether celibacy is possible. Men are driven by testosterone to want sex, says John Wass, Professor of Endocrinology at Oxford University. Women are driven to a lesser degree by a mixture of testosterone and oestrogen, he explains. ‘I’d regard celibacy as a totally abnormal state.’…
”Jimmy O’Brien, who left the priesthood to start a family remembers how difficult it could be for young men. ‘You have to fight the urges. For a lot of people it can be a daily battle, others are not so affected.’
”The power of the mind through exercises like meditation can banish physical cravings, argues Vishvapani, a Buddhist…’There’s no doubt in my mind that some people are able to practice it quite happily. It may sometimes be a bit of a struggle. But the idea that biologically you can’t – that’s false.’
”Father Stephen Wang, dean of studies at Allen Hall Seminary, says it is a sacrifice that many priests manage. ‘It’s possible when people have an inner maturity and the faith and support structures are in place.’ For him it is no different to the challenge of a husband trying to be faithful to his wife. There is no celibacy get-out in the form of masturbation, says Wang. ‘For every Christian, masturbation, sex before marriage and sex outside marriage are wrong and something you shouldn’t be doing…
“Wang argues that people misunderstand celibacy. It ensures a unique relationship with God and one’s parishioners, he says. ‘It’s not about repression. It’s about learning to love in a certain way.‘ It’s not just priests who are called by the church to be celibate, it’s everyone outside wedlock, he argues. He rejects the link, commonly made in the media, between celibacy and scandal. ‘It’s not true to say that celibacy leads to sexual dysfunction or abuse. Unfortunately sexual scandals are occurring across society in various organisations, and feature married men not just celibate people.”
-end of my little research. Is there anything about the above that may be helpful to you, omyk?
anita
July 24, 2024 at 6:40 pm #435352omyk
ParticipantDear Anita,
Yes, there is much to unpack here. Thank you for compiling this information. I have a few thoughts.
First, one cannot deny human nature. Sexual desire and connection is normal, it can be good, and (I would say) it can even be sacred.
For the few who seem to embrace celibacy without difficulty, hopefully they find healthy ways to give and receive love.
I am looking at later life celibacy as a potential choice, and certainly not an easy one. I agree with O’Brien, who says it is difficult. Difficult is not impossible. I’m not sure if I will ultimately choose celibacy, but if I do, I will try to adopt the mindset that I had a good marriage, it is a worthwhile sacrifice to do something else good, and I can find healthy ways to give and receive love. And maybe it is just as much a “soulset” as it is a mindset. I’m meditating and praying on it now, and it’s definitely difficult. But I think it might be possible. Or at least I hope it is.
I think the important thing is to avoid denying that one has urges. I don’t want to deny my humanity. I also don’t want to lie to myself. Dostoevksy says that lying to yourself eventually leads one to cease loving.
With gratitude –
omyk
July 24, 2024 at 7:27 pm #435354anita
ParticipantDear omyk:
“I also don’t want to lie to myself. Dostoevsky says that lying to yourself eventually leads one to cease loving“-
– From The Brothers Karamazov: “Above all, don’t lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he can not distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses al respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love”.
Is the truth in our urges, or is the truth in our values/ ethics/ moral fiber? Or can the two be one, animal and god?
It’s difficult to be human = part animal, part god.
anita
July 26, 2024 at 1:06 pm #435417Roberta
ParticipantDear Omyk
I am sorry that your wife died & that you had no warning. So I guess you were unable to have the discussion with your wife about new partners should a tragedy strike.
As I deepened my spiritual life I decided to try out celibacy in my 50’s as I did not want to have casual relationships. Initialy I took a vow for one year and a few months before the year was up I reviewed whether I wanted to be in a relationship. I realised that I was content for at least 90% of my time I could handle the short & occasional bouts of loneliness/longing.
I have good friends & family so I continued renewing my celibacy vow each year and after 5 years I decided to stay celibate for the rest of my life. My spiritual life has deepened over this time and once my family commitments are over I hope to take robes.
I wish you all the best in which ever path you choose.
Kind regards Roberta
July 28, 2024 at 2:16 pm #435458omyk
ParticipantDear Roberta –
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am encouraged by your words and am genuinely happy for you.
As it happens, I did have the “discussion” with my wife before she died, because of the uncertainty of COVID. I had told her that she could have a new partner, but she did not indicate her feelings to me one way or another.
Your description of longing sounds very wise. I would say that I am fine most of the time, and that bouts of longing for another still come, but I am learning how to endure the moment until it passes. I, too, am trying to track my feelings over time. I haven’t been on a date for over four months now, and I feel like I am finally allowing myself to grow into a single life – one that has powerful episodes of fulfillment, despite the cold fact that I do miss my wife.
Wishing you all the best, with gratitude –
omyk
July 30, 2024 at 12:24 pm #435601Roberta
ParticipantDear Omyk
I hope that you & your daughter are getting the support of your community & that the work issues have resolved themselves.
It is possible to be happy, content & active within a community (the fathers of my children died young 23 & 37) without a special someone. I have a lot of fun, friendship & my younger son looks after my dad twice a week so that I can lead meditation sessions. Each of my friends offer the parts ( other than sexual intimacy) that a spouse would. I am also free to be there for people of our island, where as if I was in a relationship this would take time away from my family (2 lovely granchildren) & community activities. Celibacy should be a joyous freedom not a burden.
Best wishes
Roberta
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