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- This topic has 31 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 2 months ago by Anonymous.
March 5, 2022 at 12:56 pm #394366
Thank you for replying.
1. I did basically tell him that he’ll find some other woman. I knew it wouldn’t be me. I should’ve left because he had explained that it wouldn’t be me a long time ago. But then his actions and his words would make it seem like he could also see me as his wife. So I kept thinking that he was thinking about it.
2. I was interested. I felt like we could have a fun, mutually respectful life together.
3. I do feel like I bring up some things later rather than addressing them right when they happen. Like if I get upset over something he said, I just quiet and then maybe will bring it up after a day or two. But I don’t think I dwell on the past or the negative. I’m just trying to understand it. I don’t try to make feel guilty, I think that’s just him.
4. I didn’t stalk him or chase but I guess I kept in contact and I shouldn’t have done that. I removed him from social media but we still had one channel of communication.
5. I don’t know. I think he may be brought up that way where he has to always prove himself or where love and respect is kind of earned in his family. I don’t know to be honest. I think he just finds me frustrating because I won’t let him go and he wants to focus on finding someone he can actually make his wife but I hold him back and he feels guilty because of it and then angry and resentful towards me.March 5, 2022 at 1:24 pm #394367AnonymousGuest
You are welcome. I submitted my post to you with questions and you submitted your answers 16 minutes later. I took more time asking you questions than you spent answering them. I suggest again that you calm down best you can, take a cold or hot shower, or a walk outside, if it’s daylight where you are, and if it’s safe, and post again later. Not in a rush, there is no reason to rush, is there?
I need to be away from the computer for a few hours and may not be back to your thread before Sun morning, which is in about 17 hours from now.
anitaMarch 5, 2022 at 4:23 pm #394376
Hugs Angel. I have had a relationship just this. I expect he will show up in your life again at some point. PLEASE don’t go back to him no matter what he says or does.
Its not you. It’s him. Trying to figure these types out can drive you crazy. I was with the similar person around 6 years, and he even gave me a engagement ring or rather he told me it was an engagement ring.
I learnt a few weeks ago that he passed in 2018. I am much older women than you – early 60s and he was about 4 years older than I am. He was in a relationship when he passed.
Best to just move on.March 5, 2022 at 8:45 pm #394379AnonymousGuest
Back in July 2020, you “sounded” reasonable and calm, sensible, like you were in charge of your life. Fast forward to March 2022, and you “sound” disturbed, rushed, a “girl interrupted” is a term that comes to mind, being in no control of anything at all. What happened in this first relationship of yours? When and how did it become okay with you to continue a relationship with him knowing that he will not marry you,… what happened?
By the time I am typing this, the two of you may be back together (“Over the course of 2021, we broke up a so many times we lost count”) and I have no idea what your relationship with him is about and what a break up is about.
anitaMarch 5, 2022 at 11:10 pm #394388
I’m not sure what happened. I feel like I kept accepting less and less over time. By certain point, I feel like I just wanted his presence even if it didn’t match the requirements I set. I’m scared to see how much I accommodated. I know I shouldn’t have and I regret it a lot. But I think what hurts me the most is that somehow I ended up in this position where I’m just begging for him to not hate me. I don’t want him walking away thinking I was a crazy person because that’s what he keeps telling me.
I know we are not getting back together anymore. A lot has changed this time around from the other times that we broke up. I think I’m just dependent on his presence and what he has given me in the past.March 5, 2022 at 11:14 pm #394389
Thank you for sharing your experience. It really does hurt because I feel so confused and lost because of his actions.
I will definitely be trying to move on. I know I have to because I probably won’t get any understanding of why he did what he did.
It still hurts 🙁
Hope you are well now.March 6, 2022 at 2:00 am #394391
Oh Hugs Angel,
I can’t know of same with u our ex but mine admitted to being add i cited to drama. I caught him cheating on me and I believe it was because he constantly needed excitement where a I think I am more a person who would rather peace and happiness.
For a while, I too considered him my best friend and would have walked over broken glass for him.
It was very difficult to move on with my life without him. We had many breakups and getting back together. Sadly, I would find that each time I got back with him, within a few weeks, his behaviour would become worse than ever.
As I said, I am much older than you are. I’m choosing to be alone now. I’ve been married, had family, have my own home so I am at a different place in life.
I wish I had the courage and means to have worked more in myself when I was younger. I become extremely anxious in relationships to the point of becoming a wreck. I just don’t want to do it a anymore. I’m seeking peace and stability, and hope to find love outside of relationships. XXXMarch 6, 2022 at 2:40 am #394392
Angel, I found my confidence was very much affected by that saga. That’s one of the most important things to work on. You sound like you have a lot going for yourself.March 6, 2022 at 9:17 am #394399AnonymousGuest
Dear Angel (first post out of two):
Yesterday, March 5, 2022, you didn’t understand the following: (1) “What I don’t understand is how someone for whom I have shown so much love and affection and care could turn around and tell me how much they hate me? (2) I don’t understand what I did that was so bad (3) I don’t understand how to move on from such hate and anger towards me… from someone hating me this much?”
“Someone please help me understand”
This first post will include my study of what you shared, retelling what you shared in the course of the only two days you posted on your thread: one on July 17, 2020, and the second, on March 5, 2022, including quotes. In a second post, the one that will follow this one, I will do my best to answer your questions above and to help you understand.
Back on July 17, 2020, you shared that you met a man a bit over a month earlier, in June 2020 and it’s been your first relationship. On the first date he acted “nervous but very respectful“. At the end of the second date, “he said he was in love with me“. When he said that, you “asked him why he thinks this“. He explained that he knew what love felt like because he was in a two-years long relationship before, and that the love he felt for you was “a lot stronger than anything he’s ever felt before“.
When you expressed to him your concern with the speed at which he told you that he is in love with you, he suggested that you take your time and that he has no expectations that you return his feelings. He also told you “how amazed he is that someone like me is with him and that he’s still afraid that I will just leave him after getting bored“, and that “he didn’t want a physical relationship too fast because he was afraid I would leave after“.
On one of your dates, you “confronted him with my feelings and explained that I felt like everything was moving too fast and I am liking him to fast“. He then “calmly and patiently” encouraged you to “keep my feelings protected because he knows how much it hurts“. He told you that “the speed of this relationship would be entirely decided by me“.
His behavior in that first month: “He goes out of his way to make plans with me and is mindful of how my time is being used since I am currently studying for a major exam“.
You wrote: “From our conversations, I also gauged that he has been used by people for his money before and that is a concern his family has for anyone he dates… On a drunken night, he called me and explained how his culture and family limit him from doing things he enjoys, and he has ended up sacrificing his happiness for them“.
You were concerned at the time: “Something that really concerns me about this is that I think his culture and his family have a lot of control over what his life looks like… I am concerned that if this relationship were to progress further, not only would there be concerns about me as a ‘good person’ but also he would caught between pleasing ‘two sides’ and I’m not confident I would be happy with the outcome. I don’t even think I want to be a part of that situation“.
Another concern you had at the time: “he can be so involved in his own stories… that I almost feel like I don’t get to talk“. You were concerned that while he talked a lot about himself, he didn’t care to know as much about you: “at this point, I am amazed that he doesn’t ask me questions as often“.
You ended your original post, still a little over a month into the relationship with, “I’m just afraid that this is all moving too fast and being my first relationship, I don’t know what I’m feeling“.
Your second post on the same day reveals your excitement about meeting him and your need for insight: “Meeting him again today! Would appreciate some insight!”
Later on, on the same day, you shared that he told you that his family believes in certain dietary restrictions which he doesn’t follow when not in their presence, and he hides it from them. You then asked him a question: “So I asked him, how he would deal with a situation where his partner would not be okay with hiding this“. You were not satisfied with his answer, and you were concerned “about what he would do on bigger decisions in life that matter a lot to me… like upbringing of children… these just seem like really big red flags to me, and I don’t know if I should be careful or if I should even bother continuing?”
The last thing you wrote on July 17, 2020, was: “I am saddened to let go of this relationship because I do truly enjoy his company and I’ve been wanting a relationship like this for quite some time. I wonder if I explain my fears and concerns to him, if he would be able to address them and show me what he could do.
“As much as I am willing to give in to others, I am also very strong on my own core morals and values, something that I have made clear to him and he has told me that he very much values that about me and he would not expect me to change that about myself. It’s his encouragement and his loving words that continue to draw me in. Do you think I am being too naive?”
You were back to your thread on March 5, 2022: “I closed my eyes on a lot of his behaviors“, you wrote and shared that in Nov 2020, you “caught him on a dating apps“, confronted him about it, and he promised that “he wouldn’t be talking to anyone ever again“. After that, he started fighting with you about little things, “bringing up all the time that he wasn’t meant for marriage“, he got angry and even yelled at you, angry about “the way I laughed… or the way I just becoming quieter over time. We had great times, but small things would set me or him off. I would feel bad but then would be scared to bring it up because he said I have this habit of dwelling on the negative… he would just be mad that I couldn’t let things go“.
You broke up many times and got back together: “I kept going back thinking he wouldn’t be that mean ever again but he was every time. He would yell at me for continuously bringing up the same sad drama over and over again but I guess in my head I never resolved and any time I would try to, he would get upset“.
“In December 2021… He wanted me to leave his life. He was saying it in anger and then would tell me that he didn’t mean it… in Jan 2022, I ended it completely… We decided to go on one last date. But we got drunk and he… told me I’m like child, I won’t let go, I’m latched onto him and I’m machine to make people crazy. I kept crying… and he kept asking me why I was so sad, why I had to keep crying to make him feel guilty when he has already told me so many times that he doesn’t want to marry me… I tried to explain to him… He said he hates me and he hates that he ever did this and we were a mistake. He thought I was a cool, ‘modern’ girl and not this“.
In answer to my questions yesterday, you explained that even though he repeatedly told you that he wouldn’t marry you, “his actions and his words would make it seem like he could also see me as his wife“, that you were interested in marrying him, hoping “we could have a fun, mutually respectful life together“. In your answer to one of my questions, you wrote: “I don’t think I dwell on the past or the negative. I’m just trying to understand it“. In regard to his upbringing, you wrote, “I think he may be brought up that way where he has to always prove himself or where love and respect is kind of earned in his family“.
As to my question to you, what happened? You answered: “I’m not sure what happened. I feel like I kept accepting less and less over time. By certain point, I feel like I just wanted his presence even if it didn’t match the requirements, I set… somehow I ended up in this position where I’m just begging for him to not hate me. I don’t want him walking away thinking I was a crazy person because that’s what he keeps telling me…. I think I’m just dependent on his presence and what he has given me in the past“.
March 6, 2022 at 11:58 am #394403AnonymousGuest
- This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by .
Dear Angel (second post out of two):
I spent about 3 hours putting together the first post, processing the information and as a result I am getting a clear picture of what happened, it’s not complicated really, in my mind. Here is what I see: there has been, from the start, a fundamental incompatibility between you and him: you are intellectually honest, he is not.
By being intellectually honest, I mean that you have an honest attitude to finding answers and solving problems: you ask questions because you are looking for the truth. You are open to receiving answers that you don’t like, as long as they are true answers. You present information in a straightforward, honest manner. You don’t purposefully omit relevant facts and information so to appear to be who you are not, nor do you fabricate information, aka lie. You share with another person what you honestly think and what you honestly feel, best you can, so to give him (or her) a true picture of who you are, and in so doing, you make it possible for him choose what is right for him. Generally, what you present to others as yourself is really who you are.
On the other hand, he is intellectually dishonest: he is not looking for the truth, instead, he keeps much of the truth hidden from himself and from others. He omits relevant information, he twists information, and he lies so to appear to be who he is not. Generally, what he presents to others as himself is not really who he is.
On the two occasions you shared about him being drunk, he told you the truth: (1) Summer 2020: “On a drunken night, he called me and explained how his culture and family limit him from doing things he enjoys, and he has ended up sacrificing his happiness for them“ – he is angry at his family for limiting him, for robbing him from joy and happiness, he is angry at them for demanding that he sacrifices his happiness for them.
(2) Early 2022: “But we got drunk and he… told me… I won’t let go, I’m latched onto him and I’m machine to make people crazy. I kept crying… and he kept asking me why I was so sad, why I had to keep crying to make him feel guilty… He said he hates me and he hates that he ever did this” –
– he projected the anger and hate (strong, lasting anger) that he has for his family (one or both parents, a grandparent perhaps) => to you. It is his family who robbed him from joy and happiness, who latched onto him and made him feel guilty and didn’t let him go until he sacrificed himself for them. It is his family that he views as a machine made to make him crazy.
You are intelligent and you have an inquiring mind, therefore you ask honest, straightforward questions. Back in July 2020, he told you that he was in love with you. Being as intelligent as you are, naturally, you wanted to understand how it could be that he was in love with you so quickly. So, you “asked him why he thinks this“.
When he told you that he eats foods that his family forbids eating, hiding it from them, you “asked him, how he would deal with a situation…“, a question motivated by your legitimate concern over his family’s control over him and how that would affect your children, if you had children with him in the future.
When he accused you of latching on to him and being a “machine to make people crazy“, he meant in part, I believe, that you are a question-asking machine. He didn’t like your truth-seeking questions because he hides the truth from himself and from everyone else (similar to him hiding eating foods his family forbids eating and all else that he hides from them). When you asked him questions, he felt like you were tormenting him, making him crazy.
I am ready now to answer your question #2: “I don’t understand what I did that was so bad” – you asked him honest, fair, truth-seeking questions and to him, it felt like a bad thing.
I think that you fell in love with some of the ways he appeared to be in the beginning: respectful, calm and patient, encouraging, comforting. But also, from the beginning (July 17, 2020), you saw “big red flags“.
On your last post in 2020, you wrote: “I wonder if I explain my fears and concerns to him, if he would be able to address them and show me what he could do“- you considered at the time, placing your trust in an intellectually dishonest man. Fast forward, you did just that, and that was a mistake: an intellectually dishonest person will not address your question honestly.
You wrote on that last post of 2020: “I am also very strong on my own core morals and values, something that I have made clear to him, and he has told me that he very much values that about me… It’s his encouragement and his loving words that continue to draw me in” – you spent a lot of time in the past contemplating your core morals and values, practicing them, and you truly believe in them. When he told you that he very much values that about you- those were only words, meant to appear a certain way. He didn’t think much, if anything, about your core morals and values. He said what he felt was a nice thing to say.
Regarding his upbringing, you wrote yesterday: “I think he may be brought up that way where he has to always prove himself or where love and respect is kind of earned in his family” – I think that he tried, as a child, for many years, to earn his (unloving & disrespectful) family’s love and respect, failed to do so, and eventually settled into hiding the truth from them and appearing to be what they were likely to approve of. Fast forward, that’s what he did with you: hiding the truth from you, and appearing to be what you are likely to approve of.
Your first question was: “how someone for whom I have shown so much love and affection and care could turn around and tell me how much they hate me?” -he hated your question and truth-seeking more than he loved your love, affection and care. Your questions pointed to thoughts and feelings inside him that he didn’t want to face. He hated the idea of looking into what he didn’t want to look into.
You wrote yesterday when trying to explain what happened: “By certain point, I feel like I just wanted his presence even if it didn’t match the requirements, I set” – by a certain point, his presence in your life was more valuable to you than your “own core morals and values“, core values that include honesty and decency.
Your third question was: “I don’t understand how to move on from such hate and anger towards me… from someone hating me this much?” – reverse the choice you made before and choose your core morals and values over his presence in your life. Choose honesty over dishonesty, truth over deception, substance over appearances.
“I don’t want him walking away thinking I was a crazy person because that’s what he keeps telling me” – he does not want to face the crazy that’s in him. He does not want to point his finger to his crazy, so he points his finger at you and he says: you are the crazy one!
If you go back to him yet again, you will not be able to force his finger to point in his own direction. As hard as you try, you will hurt your own hand and his finger will still be pointing at you. There is nothing else for you to do that makes sense, other than… you tell me (?)
March 7, 2022 at 1:23 pm #394523
- This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by .
I definitely agree with you that confidence and self esteem are things I will be working on now. I also will try to be more mindful in the future about relationships and what I’m willing to put up with.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. I truly appreciate it.
AngelMarch 7, 2022 at 1:40 pm #394526
Thank you for laying it out for me. You’ve given me a different perspective. I wanted to believe more than anything that he wouldn’t be a dishonest person. That his words were not just candy coated lies. I feel like I gave my all and if I was simply honest and kind and patient, that would be enough to garner the same back. I would often ask for these things in return as well and sometimes I felt I got them and other times I didn’t. Which I suppose I can now identify as behavior meant to appease me for a bit so I would stop asking.
There is no way I am going back to him. I can see how he has taken my love for granted and I don’t want to feel worthless like that again. I want to move forward but I’m also scared of knowing someone. I truly believed a lot of the kind and sensible things he said. How do I know trust myself again?March 7, 2022 at 2:53 pm #394529AnonymousGuest
“How do I know trust myself again?” –
Know that no one lies all the time, even the most prolific liar in the world, sometimes tells the truth.
“I truly believed a lot of the kind and sensible things he said” – sometimes he really meant the kind and sensible things he said, I have no doubt.
When you evaluate a person, avoid the all-or-nothing thinking: people are not like the depiction of some cartoon characters: the evil/ dishonest ones are evil and dishonest all of the time with everyone, and the good/ honest ones are good and honest all of the time.
Let’s take Putin. I am sure Putin was kind to some people, but should the world think of him as a good person?
Look at the big picture of how a person affects others: the current economic and emotional suffering of millions because of Putin; the displacement, physical injuries and deaths of however many in Ukraine, so far and yet to come, in Ukraine and in the world, because of Putin, because of what he chose to do (he did not at all have to invade Ukraine)-
– in the big picture, is he a good person?
Back to the guy who hopefully was (and will not be any longer in your life): “I don’t want to feel worthless like that again… I truly believed a lot of the kind and sensible things he said” – at times he said some kind and sensible things to you. At times he comforted you, but in the big picture his dominant effect on you was your feeling of worthlessness-
in the big picture, has he been a good person to you?
When you meet a man in the future, look at everything, keep your eye and mind on the big picture.
“I feel like I gave my all and if I was simply honest and kind and patient, that would be enough to garner the same back” – this is a nice thought, a nice hope, and it sometimes happens. But it is not a good idea to expect or to assume that your honesty and kindness will be returned to you.
anitaMarch 15, 2022 at 6:06 pm #395312AnonymousGuest
I am wondering how you are feeling and if you are back with him? I just re-read my analysis on nine days ago and I think that I was too confident on that day that I was seeing things accurately. I think that I didn’t see things accurately and wanted to discuss it with you, if you are available.
anitaMarch 15, 2022 at 6:53 pm #395317
I hope you are okay Angel. I know it took me such a long time to completely extricate myself from him but it was the best thing I could have done for myself. It’s like there was a chain of attachment that kept me bound to him. It takes a while to BREAK THE ATTACHMENT.