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September 11, 2023 at 2:45 pm #422004BenParticipant
I was under the impression that you are still in love with him. Correct, ahaha.
no one keeps the same closeness/ distance with a friend or a romantic partner at all times. Sometimes we feel closer, at other times we feel distant, and all that’s in-between. This makes sense, yet we are now at conversations of a few words a day. The change is extreme, from immense talking to nothing.
An anxious person (fitting the Anxious Attachment Style) is overly sensitive to nuances in the tone of voice, facial expressions, writing style, etc., of a romantic interest, seeing temporary/ normal distance as threatening, when it is not. It no longer feels like a nuance but a very large, hard to avoid rock, at least in me. A part of me wants to know how it can be so easy for him to simply cut me off like this, if he did love me (or still does? he said he did, but where is the fear that I will simply disappear if he doesn’t talk to me?)
– you mentioned here and before that you expect nothing from him, but you do (rightfully, deservedly) expect something from a man: a real-life, committed and monogamous love story. And he is that man and the hope (which you mentioned above), at this point, isn’t he? He is. He very much is. I expect, I don’t know really. I suppose more contact.
Yesterday when I finally replied to him “but, i’m here, we can have a call whenever” – he simply replied with an emoji of a sort of punch-drunk face. I have no idea how to interpret it. Relief because he thought I was ghosting him and I’ve said i’m still happy to call? Like he’d been being cold because I was? I replied with a question mark, he never said anything more.
Today, again, barely anything. “I passed my exam”. I said well done. A few hours later, “thanks”. What does this mean exactly?! It’s barely a conversation, it’s not really “keeping a friendship” – he’s barely saying anything. I’m not sure if he’s saying all he feels he can say. I tell myself it’s because of his exams, which have now finished, but I doubt that.
I have no idea how to interpret his signals. Do I simply ignore and share mutual-interest related things all the time? Or do I give him space? Does he think i’m the one being distant? It infuriates me. It’s as if he is keeping distance, but then doesn’t. He didn’t request a call or anything, or even talk about it. Is that because he was just admitting “I miss talking to you, but that is reality now” or was he saying “I miss talking to you, let’s chat again”… ugh!
September 11, 2023 at 6:42 pm #422008anitaParticipantDear Ben:
I will reply further tomorrow morning (it is Mon evening here). But for now, about how to interpret his words, the emoji, the frequency of contact, etc.: I am guessing that there is no particular intent on this part and then going about it in a strategic way (no deceit, no fraud, like what was suggested to you). He has been experiencing a CONFLICT in regard to his feelings and relationship with you vs his relationship with the man for whom he has a complex mix of feelings, a man who financially supports him, and he hasn’t fully resolved this conflict.
So he is here now, there later, neither here nor there at this or that time, distracting himself or being distracted and putting the conflict out of his mind when he can. I am guessing.
anita
September 12, 2023 at 7:17 am #422018anitaParticipantDear Ben:
“The change is extreme, from immense talking to nothing“- well, it is not nothing: only yesterday there were a couple of something-s (“I was confused by him admitting to missing having video calls with me today“, and “Today, again, barely anything. ‘I passed my exam’. I said well done. A few hours later, ‘thanks’“). But it feels like nothing because you want and need MORE, like it was before.
“A part of me wants to know how it can be so easy for him to simply cut me off like this, if he did love me (or still does? he said he did, but where is the fear that I will simply disappear if he doesn’t talk to me?)”-
– unlike before (from your original post): “I feel like the centre of his world, if I don’t reply he asks for me, he gets upset when I don’t call, as I do with him. He gets jealous when I go to parties and don’t message him. He desires me.“- it felt very good to be the center of his world, to be the center of each other’s world, to desire and be desired. There was no lack of contact back then, for a while.
“Yesterday when I finally replied to him… Like he’d been being cold because I was.. Does he think I’m the one being distant?… It infuriates me“- you feel very warm toward him (in-love, infatuated, hopeful, desiring him), but you are also hurt and angry at him. It’s a tough mix of emotions to manage and navigate through, isn’t it.
“What does this mean exactly?! It’s barely a conversation, it’s not really ‘keeping a friendship’ – he’s barely saying anything… I have no idea how to interpret his signals. Do I simply ignore and share mutual-interest related things all the time? Or do I give him space?… It’s as if he is keeping distance, but then doesn’t… ugh!“-
-what if you send him a short, honest, straightforward message like this: Dear (or however you refer to him) ___: Truth is I am still in love with you, I still want the two of us to have a real-life love story, just the two of us. I feel hurt and disappointed because it felt like it could have happened, but then.. it didn’t. And we have so little contact. Sometimes I feel angry at you for not wanting me like you did before. And of course, there is the fact that you have a boyfriend, and I should be respectful of him and your relationship with him. It is hard for me to manage these feelings and wants.. do you have any advice for me?
A message like this may be the beginning of a meaningful conversation and a quality friendship… ?
anita
September 12, 2023 at 7:43 am #422019BenParticipantYou make several good points.
I think the hardest is not knowing how he is feeling, or felt at all.
Is he doing this because, at the very end, he actually hadn’t really loved me? Or he doesn’t anymore?
I worry that if he is acting like this now, maybe he didn’t really care at all and is something of a charlatan. I don’t think 100% that he is, but it’s a doubt that plagues my mind.
It’s true I desire a lot from him… but i get upset he seemingly now desires nothing from me. I suppose that feels like being used and that’s what fuels some of the doubt.
A part of me thinks he’s sort of trying to avoid talking too much with me. Not maliciously but at least purposely. I am at such a loss.
I worry he is only talking to me out of pity. I worry he feels obligated to talk to me out of that sense of pity. Or even out of guilt. And that that is the reason why we seemingly have nothing to talk about now. A bit like it is dead forever and he doesn’t really care if he loses me, which makes me despair somewhat.
I think I have sent him “words to that effect”, but not now after some time has passed. I did say at one point that I was feeling all sorts of emotions and he said “oh dear :(” and nothing else… which didn’t help at all. But maybe now if I write something like that, I will receive some sort of honest response.
September 12, 2023 at 7:48 am #422022BenParticipantHe obviously won’t be in love with me anymore…
I worry too I have misinterpreted and actually I really should act like it is gone forever. That he doesn’t love me at all anymore, or have any feelings at all. Or is that the anxious attachment?
September 12, 2023 at 9:46 am #422027anitaParticipantDear Ben:
“I think the hardest is not knowing how he is feeling, or felt at all. Is he doing this because, at the very end, he actually hadn’t really loved me? Or he doesn’t anymore? I worry that if he is acting like this now, maybe he didn’t really care at all and is something of a charlatan. I don’t think 100% that he is, but it’s a doubt that plagues my mind… I worry he is only talking to me out of pity. I worry he feels obligated to talk to me out of that sense of pity. Or even out of guilt“-
-it’s like you can’t believe that you were genuinely desired and wanted for the person that you are; as if you find it believable that he was deceptive (a charlatan) or that he pitied you or that he felt guilty and obligated, but you don’t find it believable that he .. truly, genuinely enjoyed your company because of who you are, for what you expressed to him.
I had to go back to your first thread to look again at the origin of you not believing that you can be loved, and I found it in your Oct 31, 2018, almost five years ago. NOTE: re-reading what you shared back then may be upsetting to you and not something you want to read right now, so please take your time and read the following only if you are able and willing:
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Here is what you shared about your father on Oct 31, 2018: “I was never recognized as a man by him, just as a sort of… idk… mistake… I had not ‘unlearned’ or left dormant for long enough those shaming pathways that are so strong”–
– five years later, I say: you are lovable, you are worthy of love. You are precious. I know these things as a result of our communication then and now. My words coming to you from the computer screen cannot reach deep enough to undo those shaming pathways. But I know from my very personal experience, that it is possible to undo a huge part of those shaming pathways. I didn’t know it was possible until- and it wasn’t long ago- I FELT differently, I felt like everyone else, a NEW feeling (I am typing now whatever comes to my mind in effort to explain this): I felt like other people around me, not LESS, not strangely different/ irreversibly damaged and faulty. I wish I felt like this when I was younger, as in your age… What an amazing experience it was, what a different quality of life-experience.
Continued quote from above: “I don’t love myself … Dad.. hmm for sure, I want justice. I know I want it, but I sort of shy away from actually getting it. I remember when I was 17 I shouted at him for at least an hour about all the pain he had caused me.. I was drunk after a party… indeed every time, he sort of turns it back towards me… I still create arguments in my head with him.. but, a part of me goes.. please, can we just leave this alone and move on with life?… I notice I’m frustrated all the time and shout at other people.. innocent people on the bus for example.. well, not shouting, aloud… I get angry and call them names in my head. But, this is exhausting, I want to love the world I live in and this negative energy is draining“-
-to love yourself, don’t shy away from seeking the little justice that you can exact for yourself. Your anger at him has always been valid, and valid anger calls for some kind of action. What action is right and just, practical (and legal), tailored to your situation- I don’t know. But some justice needs to take place. And then, you can move on with life, free from shame and from this negative energy.
Back to your most recent post and to the guy we’ve been discussing: “I think the hardest is not knowing how he is feeling, or felt at all… he doesn’t really care if he loses me, which makes me despair somewhat“- if you were free from shame and believed that you are lovable, regardless of how he is feeling, you would feel sad for a while, but you wouldn’t despair.
Regarding my suggested message, you wrote: “I think I have sent him ‘words to that effect’, but not now after some time has passed. I did say at one point that I was feeling all sorts of emotions and he said ‘oh dear’ and nothing else… which didn’t help at all. But maybe now if I write something like that, I will receive some sort of honest response.“- if you do send him a message like the one I suggested, making it your own, using the words that are most true to you: copy the message, if you will, and his response- if any, so to share with me (if you feel comfortable doing so, of course). It will be very telling.
But you will need to feel strong enough to endure a less than desirable response, to be open to whatever comes from him.
“I worry too I have misinterpreted and actually I really should act like it is gone forever. That he doesn’t love me at all anymore, or have any feelings at all. Or is that the anxious attachment?“- (1) in a practical sense, if his love is gone forever, sending him a message like the one I suggested, will not cause him to lose love that is already.. gone forever. (2) Of course it’s anxious attachment on your part. Yes.
anita
September 15, 2023 at 10:51 am #422150BenParticipantOn Wednesday gone he said good morning, and said “I want to call today” – I had therapy so decided against it. So it was yesterday we called.
It was surprisingly pleasant to start off with, he had a nice energy about him. We talked normally but about nothing deep.
He said his “OCD” about cleaning had gotten worse, I said “well, usually that happens when you are anxious about something else”. He hesitated slightly and said “yes, because of various things that have happened” – cautiously, I think knowing that we both knew what he meant.
Independent of what happened between me and him, he had his exams which finished on Monday, two elderly relatives in his family died, and he was robbed in the street a few days ago too.
Anyway, we talked a bit more about his stress. At one point he said “I’m missing you” – I said “in what way?” (our chats?) – He said “In everyway”. I forget the details but eventually he said “And… well… what do you think about me now?”
I explained, I don’t know what I think. I think everything and nothing, angry then sad, I understand him then I don’t, I understand myself then I dont.
I said “how was it so easy for you? even when he was there you never made a moment to talk to me even while you were still acting like you were with me. Since before I left until now, you have essentially lost nothing, your life hasn’t changed, I have lost something enormous”
He said that it wasn’t easy for him, but that he doesn’t really share his emotions or feelings with anybody, nor does he really introspect much either. He said he just finds himself crying sometimes and lets it pass, then moves on. He said “I thought it would be easy, to end it with him (the boyfriend), then I thought it would be easy to end it with you, but it was hard, and it is hard”.
He mentioned learning English, something I had been doing, I said “well, how are you going to learn now?” – sort of in jest, to see if he would ask if I was going to help. He started “well, I taught myself lots of things… alone” – and then covered his eyes and cried a little, saying “I feel so sad for all that could have been, that i’m not going to England to see you”.
We talked some more.
He said too that during that time with the visit, the exams, the relatives passing away, he had had absolutely no time to process anything. Then he was robbed in the street and had no spare capacity. After all of these passed, (i.e in the last 7 days or so) he had time to realise what had happened, what had gone on. He said he felt completely alone. “I have no one to talk to” he says, then I say “but you have friends, family” “hmm” he replies. “Or you can call me” – “Oh, that’s much better” he says when I tell him that.
Later he said “I was pretending it was easy to end it with you, but it wasn’t, it isn’t, and it won’t be. I was pretending to not have these feelings, telling myself I didn’t feel this way. But I still feel the same”. He also said “i’ve had other relationships that were easy to end, but this one is so hard to”.
He said “some feelings in life are like a rock, that no matter what you do, smash it with a hammer or whatever, they won’t disappear”.
So, I suppose that’s how he feels. He didn’t say the word love, but did make a heart symbol with his hands. He also went on to say “you’re the only person I feel safe to share my deepest fears with. I’ve never felt so comfortable to talk about my anxieties and worries with anyone else”.
A part of me was going “well, if you feel like this, why on earth is it such a hard choice to make between me and your toxic relationship!?!!?” but I didnt vocalise this.
So well, i’m not quite sure what to do next. He really is in a pickle hahaha.
September 15, 2023 at 11:34 am #422153anitaParticipantDear Ben:
He sounds honest to me.. and him making “a heart symbol with his hands” is precious. Reads like an excellent conversation. I can see how it would encourage you to hope. It will be interesting to see what the next conversation will be like. I hope that you will manage the ups and downs that will follow!
anita
September 16, 2023 at 2:51 am #422157BenParticipantWe had another video call yesterday.
The energy started out a bit different. I noticed I felt very far away from him. He said he felt a lot better, but said “because of one man” – a part of it hoped it was me… but, he is religious and said it was “Jesus”… hmm. I think it was me because he felt better from our previous conversation. But, ok. That hurt me.
I said I felt far from him, he said “didn’t you listen to what I said yesterday? or did it go in one ear and out the other?”. I had, of course. I think I am someone who does stay in certain moods and emotions for longer, a little fixated. Maybe I should have waited a bit longer for another call with him, or maybe I should have tried to just focus on my life. I think I had gotten a little carried away based on that call from Thursday where he was very sincere and in this one, at least at the beginning, he seemed a bit like he was avoiding talking about anything “deeper”.
But then, of course, he’s not obligated to! I think there maybe my anxiety got the better of me (perhaps one coffee too many that day haha).
Anyway our conversation continued, I think I learned a bit more about it from his perspective. I said I had told my parents about it all (which shows growth from my previous thread!), he said “oh so they hate me now” – not really, my mother I think understands the nuances of the situation. My father has a simpler explanation “you were used, you were merely a f**k”. When I told him about this (I don’t actually think that deep down, again I think it’s an anxiety that I keep giving him to resolve) he was a little defensive about it and explained how he hadn’t etc.
He had constantly asked me, when we were “together”, “are you happy with this? do you want to continue? are you prepared to go through with this?” – he reminded me. I had always said I was. I didn’t manage to say “well, I was because it was based on an assumption you would be able to end it with your boyfriend”.
He seemed sad again that he wouldn’t be coming to England. “Even if I had broken up and I was going there, I think my family would have thought I was using you for money”. He said his mother offers him all the support she can (though she can’t offer help financially), his father never gives him anything (his parents are divorced). I know his family is very important to him.
He asked me “would you, after all of this, still get back together with me?” – I said I have to be honest and that I would. He said he would too.
I think here I understood him more. He said all that happened between us happened so quickly, “we both lost control, we both knew the risks but did it because it felt good”. I said to him “well, for me, it is easy, it is 100% clear, I love you in a way I haven’t loved anyone else before. But, for you, it is complicated, you feel the same, I assume, but you have your whole life situation”
At one point he said “maybe our love story isn’t over”. I said “oh but the maybes the maybes. Maybe you will marry your boyfriend! But, I cannot force you to do anything”. Perhaps I reacted too quickly there. But I suppose the thought is seeded in his mind.
I said all that I had promised him was only a call away. That our future could still happen.
I said to him that “I think what we share is so special, it would be the saddest thing in my life to let it drift away or to simply keep it locked up in a cupboard”.
During this he had expressed agreement. He didn’t say he loved me, but he agreed with what I had said. I think I understood he had felt, concluded, that it was impossible for us to continue, because of his situation, and he was resigned to it. I did even mention to him “for me, when you say you feel this connection we me that’s so special, so different, how can it be so hard to choose!?” – but I quickly said “But, of course, I don’t know what’s in your heart, your head, I cannot force you, it is your own journey”. I “need” to know what his relationship with his boyfriend really means to him, but of course, I can’t really pry into that from my position.
When it was time to finish, he said it was a very good, productive conversation, with a lot of information. I think I learned that through this I will have to control my hope a little more, as it is so easily reinvigorated and so sensitive to what he says and what I think he is meaning when really I can’t tell.
September 16, 2023 at 8:50 am #422160anitaParticipantDear Ben:
I don’t know if I mentioned it to you before, but the way I normally respond to posts is to read the first sentence the first couple- few sentences, respond to those before reading what’s next, then reading the next sentence, respond to it, etc.
“He said he felt a lot better, but said ‘because of one man’ – a part of it hoped it was me… but.. it was ‘Jesus’… hmm. I think it was me because he felt better from our previous conversation. But, ok. That hurt me“-
– earlier (before talking to you) he may have given you, Ben, credit for him feeling much better, and much later he thought about Jesus. You only know of the thoughts that he expresses to you during the very limited time of your communication. There are so many, many thoughts going through a person’s mind in an hour, often within a minute. Expecting the thought favorable to you to occur in his mind at just the right time for you.. is unrealistic. It’s like trying to put a leash on a squirrel- it’s not going to work: the squirrel is too fast and agile to accommodate a leash, and so are a person’s thoughts.
Your hurt was based on an unrealistic expectation.
“I said I felt far from him, he said ‘didn’t you listen to what I said yesterday? or did it go in one ear and out the other?’… I think I had gotten a little carried away based on that call from Thursday where he was very sincere and in this one, at least at the beginning, he seemed a bit like he was avoiding talking about anything ‘deeper’“-
– you expect him to think and feel X when, and to the extent that you want him to?
“But then, of course, he’s not obligated to!“- I don’t think that it is a matter of obligation. I think that neither him nor any person in the whole wide world, is able to think and feel just what another person wants them to. Even if he wanted to tell you just what you want to hear, he can’t read your mind: he can’t know- until you tell him- what it is that you are thinking and hoping that he’ll say at this or that particular moment.
“I think there maybe my anxiety got the better of me (perhaps one coffee too many that day haha).“- when our anxiety goes up, our thinking-quality goes down. (calming herb tea perhaps..?)
“I said I had told my parents about it all (which shows growth from my previous thread!), he said ‘oh so they hate me now’ – not really, my mother I think understands the nuances of the situation. My father has a simpler explanation ‘you were used, you were merely a f**k’“- (1) your father jumped to this conclusion, and he was crude about expressing it. I wish he was gentler. (2) congratulations for the growth you accomplished since your previous thread, for having a better communication with your parents. I hope that you do expect (and it will be realistic to expect, in this case) that you will continue to receive nuanced responses from your mother and black-and-white/ all-or-nothing/ jumping-to-conclusions responses from your father.
“When I told him about this (I don’t actually think that deep down, again I think it’s an anxiety that I keep giving him to resolve) he was a little defensive about it and explained how he hadn’t etc.“- (1) from what you shared and my understanding of it, I too think that what your father said is untrue, (2) giving him (or anyone but yourself) the job of resolving your anxiety is not going too work. Taking on the job yourself is a long-term project that takes a lot of work, persistence and perseverance.
“He had constantly asked me, when we were ‘together’, ‘are you happy with this? do you want to continue? are you prepared to go through with this?’ – he reminded me. I had always said I was. I didn’t manage to say ‘well, I was because it was based on an assumption you would be able to end it with your boyfriend’“- (1) Again, based on what you shared, including what I just read in this paragraph for the first time, seems to me that he is an honest guy. (2) Your hope that he ends his other relationship is understandable.
“He seemed sad again that he wouldn’t be coming to England. ‘Even if I had broken up and I was going there, I think my family would have thought I was using you for money’. He said his mother offers him all the support she can (though she can’t offer help financially), his father never gives him anything (his parents are divorced). I know his family is very important to him“- (1) Again, reads like an honest guy, and caring to not even be thought of as one who uses another for money, (2) So, one strong reason he is staying in Brazil is so to remain close to his mother?
“He asked me ‘would you, after all of this, still get back together with me?’ – I said I have to be honest and that I would. He said he would too… I said to him ‘well, for me, it is easy, it is 100% clear, I love you in a way I haven’t loved anyone else before. But, for you, it is complicated, you feel the same, I assume, but you have your whole life situation’“- honest on both sides, and perfectly articulated by you!
“At one point he said ‘maybe our love story isn’t over’. I said… all that I had promised him was only a call away. That our future could still happen. I said to him that ‘I think what we share is so special, it would be the saddest thing in my life to let it drift away or to simply keep it locked up in a cupboard’. During this he had expressed agreement… I did even mention to him ‘for me, when you say you feel this connection with me that’s so special, so different, how can it be so hard to choose!?’ – but I quickly said ‘But, of course, I don’t know what’s in your heart, your head, I cannot force you, it is your own journey”. I ‘need’ to know what his relationship with his boyfriend really means to him, but of course, I can’t really pry into that from my position“-
– to pry: to inquire too closely into a person’s private affairs. Don’t pry but gently inquire about his state of mind in regard to his boyfriend: ask him a question about it, a simple question, an honest question, no accusation or judgment of any kind. The expressed feelings on both sides give validity to such inquiry.
“When it was time to finish, he said it was a very good, productive conversation, with a lot of information. I think I learned that through this I will have to control my hope a little more, as it is so easily reinvigorated and so sensitive to what he says and what I think he is meaning when really I can’t tell.“- (1) I agree: it was a very good, productive, informative conversation (and for me- inspiring!). (2) I also agree that you can’t tell what he means behind what he says (you can’t read his mind, etc., as I expressed at the beginning of this post), (3) And I agree that you should tame your hope- and the anxiety/ oversensitivity (to what he says at any one time) that goes with it.
anita
September 18, 2023 at 11:42 pm #422236BenParticipantI am lost and confused today. My anxiety worsened yesterday and maybe got the better of me.
I just don’t understand anything. How could he have chosen the other guy ?
On Saturday we had a nice phone call. Brief but a nice energy. I told him a friend of mine had moved to Madrid and that I was planning to visit him. “Oh you have time and money to visit him but not me?” Oh… he was jealous, and expressing it? I could tell from his expression it wasn’t a tease.
I then said I’d visit Brazil again, in jest, and he got jealous again when I mentioned seeing the guy there that I had been involved with.
So… apparently he still gets jealous?
At the end of the call, half out of habit, I said “I love you”. He blushed, scrunched up his eyes and then whispered into the phone “I love you”.
Oh…
On Sunday he was a bit quieter, visiting friends of his.
Then yesterday my anxiety grew, seemingly from nowhere. I’d had a terrible nightmare and was just feeling a bit down (on account of what has happened between me and him).
I said I was feeling down to him, he said focus on the good things in life. “I don’t have any”.
His reply “you have your visit here, your nephews”.
I asked if he meant “the one that’s happened?” – my hope overwhelmed me there and i had thought maybe he was referring to a future visit. I asked twice and he replied “is there a problem?”… um.. no?
I was confused… my visit there was something good? For me it’s ultimately brought heartbreak and a deep sense of confusion. I didn’t express it as such, I said it creates a sense of loss for what could have been.
His reply was that everything that’s good brings about that feeling.
I then perhaps lost myself. I said I don’t know what to say, what to do. I said I still love him, followed by some sad emoji. He replied with 3 sad face emoji.
I said I would have to forget everything. That i still have hope for us but it’s all an illusion, my love for him misleading me. He replied “I know how you are feeling”.
I said on Saturday talking about things gave me hope… but… “Oh what’s the point in talking more”
“I don’t know”. I was terrified briefly. I said “really? You don’t want to talk to me anymore? You were so open and now so closed again, it doesn’t make sense”
“I was studying, of course I want to talk to you, haha, I’m going to do yoga”
I don’t know what I’m trying to achieve with him anymore.
A creeping thought is that he indeed loves his boyfriend more than me. Or he thinks he does. But then, isn’t that me refusing to believe someone could love me genuinely? Being perhaps a bit sulky (a tendency I have).
Why oh why is this happening
September 19, 2023 at 12:16 am #422238anitaParticipantDear Ben: I am sorry to read that you are feeling lost and confused today. It is night time here and I will answer you further in about 7 or 8 hours from now, first thing in the morning. Please distract yourself with some positive activity, maybe a walk or some other aerobic exercise,, Take good care of yourself today.
anita
September 19, 2023 at 8:36 am #422248anitaParticipantDear Ben:
“I am lost and confused today. My anxiety worsened yesterday and maybe got the better of me“- confusion promotes anxiety, anxiety promotes confusion; clarity promotes calm.
“I just don’t understand anything. How could he have chosen the other guy?“- ask him clear questions, gently inquire, like I suggested in my last post to you, three days ago. There is a saying that’s very popular, it originated in the bible (Matthew 7:7): “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you”, generally interpreted as an encouragement to ask for what you want or need: ask for/ seek the information that you need and you will find it.
“So… apparently he still gets jealous?“- yes, but a person’s jealousy does not in itself indicate love or depth of love, or commitment. It’s usually an emotional experience of childhood re-appearing in adulthood.
“At the end of the call, half out of habit, I said ‘I love you’. He blushed, scrunched up his eyes and then whispered into the phone ‘I love you’“- from his reaction here and from his reaction in the past (which you shared about) seems like he is uncomfortable with the words I-love-you. (This is something you may want to ask him) .
“Then yesterday my anxiety grew, seemingly from nowhere… I said I was feeling down to him, he said focus on the good things in life. “I don’t have any”. His reply “you have your visit here, your nephews”. I asked if he meant ‘the one that’s happened?‘ – my hope overwhelmed me there and I had thought maybe he was referring to a future visit. I asked twice and he replied ‘is there a problem?’… um.. no?‘“- putting myself in his shoes, I too would not know what to say to make you feel better and would feel uncomfortable. It’s a difficult place to be, the place he was in, in that part of the conversation, not knowing what to say.
“I said I would have to forget everything. That I still have hope for us but it’s all an illusion, my love for him misleading me. He replied ‘I know how you are feeling’“- maybe he was trying his best to make you feel better, but there was no way to make you feel better.
“I said on Saturday talking about things gave me hope… but… ‘Oh what’s the point in talking more’… I said ‘really? You don’t want to talk to me anymore? You were so open and now so closed again, it doesn’t make sense’, ‘I was studying, of course I want to talk to you, haha, I’m going to do yoga‘”- I agree with him that there was no point talking more during that conversation. You were too upset, too sulky during that conversation to make good sense.
“A creeping thought is that he indeed loves his boyfriend more than me. Or he thinks he does. But then, isn’t that me refusing to believe someone could love me genuinely? Being perhaps a bit sulky (a tendency I have)“- (1) better not have a conversation with him when you feel sulky. (2) I think that yes, part of you refuses to believe someone could love you genuinely.
How are you feeling now?
anita
September 19, 2023 at 8:53 am #422249BenParticipantI suppose I was wanting him to tell me it was all alright.
When I said I love you too him, he didn’t smile. It was a sort of childish reaction really, he raised his shoulders and titled his head and scrunched his eyes. It didn’t seem uncomfortable.
But you make good points. I had come to realise that a bit too. I was telling myself “be honest!” But I wasn’t being clear. I think I was “honestly” expressing anxiety rather than a clear approach. I should have tried to calm down then approach it. I should take a little break and ask direct questions, considered ones.
I’m still confused. A part of me goes “Oh life is too short, just chat with him as a friend”
And also “His relationship with his boyfriend is clearly not strong enough if he lived almost 5 months as mine. Who knows how long it will last”
But then, the hope takes over. Oh gosh! I start trying to convince him (in my head), thinking of how I could persuade him to end it and start with me again. But then I think that’s manipulative or desperate. Then I double think myself and think… but shouldn’t I try to fight for love? Isn’t it a genuine thing? Then back again… wouldn’t it be silly? Wouldn’t it just annoy him?
Sometimes I feel like I should move on, leave this to rest now. Go and life a life a while, maybe we will drift back together. Sometimes, this thought brings peace. Other times it brings dread and fear. Others, just a deep, unsettling sadness.
I realise too, I spend 24hrs a day with thus lurking in my mind, and in my heart too.
September 19, 2023 at 8:55 am #422251BenParticipantWhen I said I love you too him, he didn’t smile. It was a sort of childish reaction really, he raised his shoulders and titled his head and scrunched his eyes. It didn’t seem uncomfortable.
He did smile! I saw that just now. He smiled like when you say to a child how pretty or big they are.
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