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September 25, 2023 at 12:10 pm #422477BenParticipant
Yes, sorry! He is the love interest. The boyfriend/ex is the other guy.
September 25, 2023 at 12:33 pm #422479anitaParticipantDear Ben:
“He (love interest) said… ‘I don’t want him (his boyfriend) to do something crazy’…. he (love interest) said ‘I know him (his boyfriend), he wasn’t just making drama’.. He (love interest) said before he had had a girlfriend who threatened suicide after they broke up“-
– what if.. it is your love-interest who is into drama…?
When I read (yesterday) that your plan to support him financially while he studies medicine in Argentina, and then to move to Argentina, has been revived by your love interest (“He seemed to readily revive this plan“), I became concerned. I will try to explain: through your descriptions of your love-interest, I kind-of, sort-of.. fell in love with him a bit myself, but I don’t know him well. On the other hand, I know you way better from direct communication with you. So, I am taking a step back asking myself about his motivations and relationship history and what these could mean to you, if you invested so much in him. What do you think?
anita
September 25, 2023 at 12:44 pm #422480anitaParticipantI’ll add to the above: I tend to be suspicious of people, quick to look at/ see negatives, real or imagined, so be aware of this tendency of mine, as I am aware of it and trying to not let it cloud my view of the objective reality..
anita
September 25, 2023 at 3:03 pm #422488BenParticipantYeah, it’s a valid point. I don’t see him actively wanting drama.
But I would say he has fallen for some drama queens, perhaps from some kind of trauma, I’m guessing? The uncertainty of his father, who beat him, but who was then simply normal (if totally unloving towards him)… maybe that chaotic attachment lives oon.his mother was loving, warm, cared for him. So did his grandparents, who is he devoted to.
Having heard him talk about previous experiencs, he certainly doesn’t like the drama. I think another part of him deeply craves a stable life. I can see he wants to do the best he can, with his gestures and with his love. I think the drama tired him. “I hate drama” he often said. Usually followed by some ridiculous argument with his then boyfriend.
September 25, 2023 at 7:00 pm #422496anitaParticipantDear Ben:
Having read your recent post, I am back to feeling optimistic. I know that you are a good person, and I think/ feel that he is too, and that being with you will be good for him, that he will mature in the context of a committed relationship with you. I am rooting for the two of you! I am curious to know what’s next…
anita
October 4, 2023 at 9:56 am #422716anitaParticipantHow are you, Ben?
anita
October 7, 2023 at 2:06 pm #422856BenParticipantHi Anita
It’s been an interesting time, for sure.
The first week back “together” was very weird for me. It was what I had wanted, but I realised all the trust I had for him before, that was so implicit, was now all in doubt. I didn’t know if I believed him, trusted him, if it was both or neither or just one.
I realised it would be a journey to trust him again, and that felt natural. It was only a few days after starting up again. He was showing the right signals. He said he would gingerly break up with his now ex, and was calling me everyday.
But still, it felt a little weird. As I had said to him, for him it was a moment of clarity to realise how he felt about his ex and about me. A “lightening” moment. For me… it was a bit like “oh… I had thought I would be over the moon”. I realised I was now much more protective of myself and guarded. I noticed that while I felt the same deep down, in my heart etc, up at the mind’s eye I was slow to get back into it, perhaps slower than I expected. I worried I wouldnt be able to love him again for a while, but that did pass as we re-connected.
We’ve been mostly ok since then, he is going to “formally” finish it with his ex with a conversation, though he has some finances wrapped up with him for a while which he told me about. A couple of credit cards etc. I understand that and that that area means they will have to communicate for a while. He said he felt a bit sad about it because after all, it was someone he was in communication with everyday. But still, he is open about all of it with me.
I think though that there is now an insecurity in me that I didn’t have before. That implicit trust I had with him before, ironically seeing as he was actually in a relationship, has sort of been toned down. I find myself doubting him with no evidence. I find myself seeing only negatives or doubts or worries rather than a balanced view. Not always, and of course, it doesn’t overwhelm me, but I realise I am fighting these more than before. It doesn’t overwhelm me, it is not my default mode. But they are sneakily there in the background sometimes.
What also doesn’t help is he seems to get nervous when I mention that, just as it was hard to “leave” him, it was also sort of hard to get back together with him. I try to explain to him that it is just a matter of rebuilding trust (hard to gain, easy to lose) – but I think his insecurities get the better of him and he gets nervous and impatient. A few days ago he took it quite hard and thought I was saying I didn’t love him anymore. I reminded him that I could quite easily have told him where to shove it if I had indeed not loved him. His insecurities don’t overwhelm him either, I manage to reassure him most of the time. In fact, usually these conversations start off a little defensive or confrontational, but we nearly always gravitate naturally towards making each other laugh again, which I hope is a good sign.
I think for him it was a “lets just pick up where we left off” and he didn’t quite realise that it was the start of yet another process for me. My anxieties sometimes get the better of me but I do manage to take control before confronting him with them and try to evaluate them and turn them into something constructive. Still they do get the better of me sometimes and I find myself just sending silly doubts and embarrassing myself. I feel like that is not my default mode with him, it’s a little bit of that anxiety, helplessness and longing from our time apart running out of me and craving his attention, in what is an otherwise fairly healthy communication pattern. I hope it can be resolved as it frustrates me.
October 9, 2023 at 1:13 pm #422894anitaParticipantDear Ben:
“I realised all the trust I had for him before, that was so implicit, was now all in doubt“- for how long, would you say, did you experience an implicit.. complete trust in him? I am asking because my impression is that you’d have doubts in any romantic interest/ relationship sooner or later..?
“I realised I was now much more protective of myself and guarded“- again, I think that being protective and guarded is a state that preceded you meeting this particular man. If this is the case, then don’t be alarmed by experiencing this at this particular time, in this particular circumstance.
Your relationship anxiety is a long-term challenge. It can’t magically disappear no matter what. It takes work and time to manage it, and with the right man- resolve it as much as it can be resolved.
“My anxieties sometimes get the better of me but I do manage to take control… Still they do get the better of me sometimes and I find myself just sending silly doubts and embarrassing myself…“- my anxieties get the better of me too sometimes.. and I too embarrass myself. When it happens, I try to not judge myself but instead, be understanding and compassionate with myself, so that I can do better next time.
The situation with him reads quite promising to me, but not without challenges, of course. One day at a time, Ben!
anita
October 21, 2023 at 3:11 pm #423614BenParticipantI’m struggling a little with where to draw the line on some things with him.
For example, we usually call at about the same time each day. Today he left the library and said “heading home”. I got prepared and then he said “Oh we’re going to the bar to have a drink” with his classmates.
I think the feelings and thoughts I had in reaction to this tell a lot.
One view of it was “Oh, OK, sure, you have your life there. You aren’t doing this all the time and that’s fine. I’ll probably miss a call once in a while too if I’m visiting friends or family. No biggie between to adults”.
The other view “Oh he knew we call at that time and yet he decided to go and have a drink? He doesn’t care about me. I am not his priority”
Another week, he’d been studying with friends (it’s always on a Saturday my anxieties explode). I embarrassed myself with how anxious I got that he was fine with (just for that one day) not having a call. Apparently the 6 other days that week, where he called me and we talked in each one for at least 2 or 3 hours… that left my mind. I got so upset he left early to come home and phone me. As soon as he said he was leaving I felt such a fool and so embarrassed.
So today this happens, he goes and has a drink, sends pics, says he’s talking about me.
I naturally felt sad I wouldn’t get to call him today, I’d travelled to France to see my parents and had wanted to talk about it so maybe that added an extra layer of emotion.
But I think that was then picked up on by my longer running anxieties. Of not really being loved but by it being an illusion.
I think I link things together and create perhaps plausible but not necessarily helpful situations. He’s impulsive but not completely ridiculous but then I use that in my head to create the idea that he doesn’t really love me he’s just saying it cos it feels good or something. Even though… he calls all the time etc.
I worry too that I have the potential to almost turn into his ex when my anxieties get the better of me. I see myself sulking and sending big-bottom-lip passive aggressive comments and go “what are you doing you maniac?!”. Yet I also sometimes feel I have to say it? Even though as i see myself type (i only act like this in texts, never video calls) I know its not the right thing to do. But, it’s as if I am taking charge, almost… but really that sort of beahviour sets a course to slowly lose control.
October 21, 2023 at 5:41 pm #423617anitaParticipantDear Ben: I will be back to you in about 14 hours.
anita
October 22, 2023 at 9:02 am #423627anitaParticipantDear Ben:
“For example, we usually call at about the same time each day. Today he left the library and said ‘heading home’. I got prepared and then he said ‘Oh we’re going to the bar to have a drink’ with his classmates“- reads to me like going to the bar with his classmates was not significant to him, so he mentioned it as an afterthought, something that did not warrant overthinking or being careful about mentioning to you.
“One view of it was… No biggie“- this is how I see it, no biggie, not significant.
“The other view ‘Oh he knew we call at that time and yet he decided to go and have a drink? He doesn’t care about me. I am not his priority”-
– this view is the view of your inner child, the boy-part of you who is still hurt by your father not caring about you and not treating you like his priority. This view pre-existed you ever knowing that your boyfriend exists. It’s not about him; it’s about your early-life experience.
We adults have this inner-child part. When our childhood was emotionally traumatic and that trauma was not adequately healed, our inner child is still hurting, no matter how old we are. For the inner-child, there is no distinction between Past and Present. For him/ her, what happened is still happening in the context of adult life circumstances. We automatically project the parent that hurt us=> into a romantic partner (and into other people).
“Another week, he’d been studying with friends (it’s always on a Saturday my anxieties explode)”- I am guessing that Saturdays have been particularly difficult for you growing up, maybe because you were not distracted by going to school..?
“But then I use that in my head to create the idea that he doesn’t really love me he’s just saying it cos it feels good or something. Even though… he calls all the time etc.“- you reacted not to him.. but to your father whom you projected into him. Your inner-child is still hurting over he (your father) doesn’t really love you.
It will be very beneficial for you to attend to Ben-the-boy: he needs your empathetic attention.
anita
December 25, 2023 at 7:04 am #426356anitaParticipantMerry Christmas/ Happy Holidays, Ben!!!
anita
December 27, 2023 at 6:42 am #426406BenParticipantThanks Anita, and for you too!
I was thinking to write here the other day.
I’m finding doubts are becoming quite pernicious. The other day I argued with him about what happened with his ex, perhaps I got into the range of asking questions I’d never want to know the answer to. At the work Christmas party two female colleagues were talking about their husbands who left them. Maybe this triggered me, and I asked him “Did you have sex with him when he was there?! “. I’m not sure what my plan was there, if he said no I’d still have doubted him and if he said yes I’d have felt betrayed… even though this all happened 4 months ago now. The wound is still healing and I guess it’s normal to flare up every now and then.
Still, I was talking to another friend about him, a friend who had always been a little skeptical about him. My fills me with doubts, saying I am being deceived, led on, that I am being naive. If all the drama with thr ex happened, how could I have been loved? It makes me feel like the guy I’m in love with is just enjoying me.
Maybe some of my own doubts and reservations mingle in the midst of this too. I sometimes wonder if he really does love me or if perhaps he thinks he does. He says the right things, and I feel better. Then, doubt comes along and I start thinking “Oh but did he say this to the other guys?”. He tells me no, that I’m the first person where he feels jealousy and somewhat possessive. He said before his ex would try to provoke jealousy by hanging out with other guys, but he wouldn’t care. With me he says it drives him crazy when I even mention it.
Still, love isn’t jealousy, of course. At the moment, he is coming to visit in January for a while. He’s midway through the winter break, visiting family. I can sense he’s giving me less attention. I drive myself mad with this. “Of course, makes sense, he’s surrounded by family, on his grandparents farm, working and helping around. Obviously he won’t have his phone on all the time nor be available to talk”. Even so, he’s called me more or less twice a day for the last week. He sends videos every now and then showing me around the farm and countryside.
My mind focuses on the fact the calls are shorter. Then, enter the conspiratorial thoughts… ohhh he’s not talking as much because, now he isn’t alone in his room studying, he doesn’t need me anymore. This proves he doesn’t love me, merely thinks he does.
I don’t know what to trust anymore or what to believe. My friend seems to think its a classic case of someone defending a hopeless relationship, with what to him are incredibly unstable foundations. I find myself believing him and not believing him… my struggle to believe someone loves me working on the former, me being more “rational” working on the latter.
Maybe as its been a long time I feel a need to reconnect with him properly, without the ex lurking in the background. I hope the visit will help ease my mind somewhat.
December 27, 2023 at 8:44 am #426409anitaParticipantDear Ben:
You are welcome and thank you!
(I am adding the boldface feature selectively to the quotes in this post): “I’m finding doubts are becoming quite pernicious. The other day I argued with him…(friend) fills me with doubts, saying I am being deceived, led on, that I am being naive. If all the drama with the ex happened, how could I have been loved?… I sometimes wonder if he really does love me or if perhaps he thinks he does. He says the right things, and I feel better. Then, doubt comes along and I start thinking ‘Oh but did he say this to the other guys?’…”-
– These ongoing, pernicious doubts and arguments within your head (does he love me? does he not? here is why not, etc.) read like a product of the very painful experience that you suffered as a boy, the throbbing of that boy’s emotional wound: “I was never recognized as a man by (your father), just as a sort of… idk… mistake… I don’t love myself … I remember when I was 17, I shouted at him for at least an hour about all the pain he had caused me.. I was drunk after a party… I still create arguments in my head with him.. but… I want to love the world I live in and this negative energy is draining”, October 31, 2018.
This negative energy you referred to more than five years ago is still with you, fueling these doubts and arguments. The boy within you can’t believe, not for long, that he is loved because growing up .. he wasn’t loved by the man who- at the time, and for years- was the most important person in this boy’s world.
I don’t know what’s on the mind and heart of your boyfriend. It reads, to me that he is sincere and that he loves you, but I do not know for sure, as in 100%. What I do know for sure (100%) is that as a boy, you sincerely and greatly loved your father and he broke your heart. This is and has been the emotional wound that’s fueling this negative energy, this pessimism about the possibility that.. it is possible that you are really loved.
I wish you had quality psychotherapy where this emotional wound can be adequately addressed and healed…!
“At the moment, he is coming to visit in January for a while… I can sense he’s giving me less attention… Even so, he’s called me more or less twice a day for the last week. He sends videos every now and then showing me around the farm and countryside. My mind focuses on the fact the calls are shorter. Then, enter the conspiratorial thoughts… ohhh he’s not talking as much because, now he isn’t alone in his room studying, he doesn’t need me anymore. This proves he doesn’t love me, merely thinks he does”-
– For as long as your emotional wound from childhood is not adequately addressed and healed, you will keep looking for the proof that he (or anyone in his place) doesn’t love you so to protect yourself from the pain of relaxing into love and then falling into despair. The logic of this self protection is that if you don’t relax into his (or anyone’s) love, if you keep yourself ALERT to his possible non-love, then the fall will not hurt as much.
“Maybe as its been a long time I feel a need to reconnect with him properly, without the ex lurking in the background. I hope the visit will help ease my mind somewhat”- It is interesting that it’s not his ex that is lurking in the background as much as it is the man who broke your heart long ago, that is lurking in the background.
I hope that your mind eases even sooner than his visit. I wish it eases today, or tonight and every day, as you embark on the journey of emotional healing.
anita
January 2, 2024 at 2:24 pm #426611BenParticipantOh it makes a lot of sense Anita. It really does.
I’ve found myself agreeing with you, and the more rational side of my mind all the time. The fear overwhelms me somewhat.
I maybe have a lot of pressures…
One, I paid for his flight… maybe i’m feeling like “he’s got me wrapped around my finger”. I feel foolish for doing so, yet it wasn’t some big gesture I made to try and make him closer to me. I wanted to see him, he wanted to come see me, and well, we know he doesn’t have any money. I’m living at home with parents so what difference does it make. He’ll be here 6 weeks, if I visited him while working we’d have only 2 weeks together was my thinking. But gosh I feel so embarrassed to admit that, I haven’t told anyone, but in my mind I am conscious of it and it makes me so nervous. Does it need to make me nervous or anxious? I have no idea. I’d wanted to see him again and the time felt right, otherwise it would have been another few months.
Second… I was thinking today that I’m perhaps nervous about “what if it all goes wrong?” – he gets bored of it here, with me working, the gloomy winter weather… what if he’s just thoroughly bored of it all? Or i’m not able to spend time with him? Or, what if my anxiety takes over, and I start seeing things that aren’t there?! What if he wants to do something alone, and I interpret it as he’s bored of me and can’t wait to get home? What if that intepretation is right? Or wrong?!
I say this… and then try to deploy the technique “What’s the evidence?” – well… none really. He says he’s really excited about it, and just wants to spend all his time here with me, hugging me. A while ago he said “I don’t want to go and see anywhere over there, I just want to spend my time with you”. I work from home a few days a week, and he said “so while you work, I’ll study for my exam i’ll have when I get back” – so even when i’m working we’ll be together.
Another pressure: part of me perhaps worries about a repeat of last time – remember… my ex visited the same time of year (gloomy winter), I was nervous, clingy, insecure (in that case, 100% rightly!) and was desperately trying to revive a relationship that had already gone off bloom. He was already distant and aloof by the time of his visit – it was if anything a desperate attempt to give life to the relationship. This time? Well… I don’t really see any behaviour from his side that indicates he is ambivalent.
Yet… I worry so much! I tell myself all the time, there’s nothing wrong, nothing amiss. As you say, I end up creating something amiss in my head most of the time. He sends a picture of an ice cream he bought. It has two spoons in it. A totally meaningless fact…that to me might mean he’s with someone! I jokingly say “ohh two spoons” – he says he gets two cos one always breaks… Why must I constantly doubt? It’s funny for a while, at the beginning of a relationship, a flirty way of saying “please don’t see anyone else” – but I can sense in him it’s slowly getting old. “When are you gonna stop making jokes like that?” he asks me sometimes.
It’s horrible because… I know my fears don’t make any sense. Up until about 2 weeks ago, fears of all these colours would arrive, and I would show them on their way. Since he’s been visiting his family though, i’ve been wracked with anxiety. Is it perhaps the age-old problem of being jealous of your partner’s family? I was upset a little that he wasn’t talking as much as usual, but then… he hasn’t seen his family for nearly a year! Why would he spend hours chatting to me? Especially when, of his 9 weeks holiday, he’s spending 6 weeks with me! Yet there I am, stamping my feet demanding (in my head, not to him) that I am informed of everything he’s doing – but for what gain or purpose? None!
Gosh I read your capital letters ALERT. I remember now… hyper-vigilance. Somehow, i’ve booted my “hyperactive” anxiety – the panic mode.
This all started two weeks ago- He goes for a drink and forgets to look at his phone for an hour (After i’d not really talked to him for like 5 hours) – I get upset because he then wasn’t ready for our daily call when I was ready (eye roll emoji time!). Then the next day was my work’s christmas party and two women talk about their cheating husbands who walked out on them… just as i’m drunk – so I decide what happened between me and him is of similar calibre and have a long argument with him… for no real gain. Then he’s off to visit his family and we don’t have the normal pattern of communication… whereby usually I settle back into confidence with him.
What am I really worried about? I suppose my OCD tendencies and anxiety have ganged up on me a bit here. Mixed with the attachment issues it’s a wonderful party going on inside my amygdala ! I’m creating all sorts of negative opinions of myself, of him, of the future, and having to prepare myself for all. And then of course feeling a fool for doing so!
Instead of just… loving him?!
A long tirade ahaha. I am having therapy – a few months with a really good one, and slowly many revelations are coming through…
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