Menu

Need Help Understanding Why

HomeForumsRelationshipsNeed Help Understanding Why

New Reply

This topic contains 91 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  X 1 week, 3 days ago.

Viewing 3 posts - 91 through 93 (of 93 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #321097

    X
    Participant

    Hello X,

    Hello, GL,

    The weather keep changing from cool to hot to cool, how’s it on your end?

    Oh yes, the weather… It does go from cold to hot, from dry to humid despite season change. Global warming in full swing, I guess…

    ‘Organic’ for me is more dependent on the kind of conversations I can have with a potential friend/partner. If I can’t have more than a few interesting conversations, then my interest starts to wane which means that there is no chemistry between me and that person. So I don’t understand how you determine chemistry upon a ‘spark’ or physical features.

    When you put it like the way you put above, I’d say it is the same for me. Remember, I said that there had been men whom I liked at first (thought we had a spark or the “family portrait test”), but soon after, presumably when I realised that we didn’t have much in common, my interest waned.

    But at the same time, there have been quite a few, with whom conversations continued to be as interesting as before and the chemistry (aka. my desire to hug them 😉 – chemistry on my end if we talk about potential partners) remained.

    Also, there are men in my life with whom I continue to have very interesting conversations, but whom I never wanted to hug and for whom this desire never surfaced.

    I would say that for me, there is definitely friend-type chemistry and partner-type chemistry. And one cannot become the other in either direction, no matter how long or hard I try.

    Also, how do you know if that person won’t hurt you based on your imaginations alone? Because in your imaginations, you feel comfortable next to him? It seems a bit too abstract for me no matter how I try to think about it.

    I am not sure I understand what you mean here by “hurt you.”

    I don’t think one ever knows, be it in the context of partners, friends or the man one gets into a lift with. Could you elaborate?

    Besides, most of the men I meet through work have worked there for over a decade, so there are plenty of people around to give their opinions of them and their backgrounds. It is not like I meet a man in the street, and when I did (the guy from the trip), I made sure we would be seeing each other in public places.

    I’m actually wondering how much energy you’re investing into your friendships while you pursued your romantic relationship.

    I think I wrote extensively on my friends and how I always “knock three times” before I stop reaching to the other person. I exchanged emails and had my regular Skype phone calls with friends while being with my ex on the same scale as before my ex had come into the picture.

    How interesting. Looked it up and it seems that what’s affected is the reproductive system. Wonder how it affects men?

    Well, varicose veins affect both men and women. Women are more affected because of pregnancy and childbirth.

    And vaginal prolapse when you are past sixty is not much fun, I can assure you that.

    So you see that simply because of what organs women have, it is wise to spare them hauling heavy articles. No wonder, etiquette and culture have men lift heavy things and carry items for women.

    It is a choice to think that being with someone is happiness while it is a choice to leave a person. It is your choice in feeling happy with someone, but that does not mean that happiness lies in their hands. After all, you are choosing to be happy with them.

    Hm-m-m, are you trying to say that thinking that one needs a partner to be fulfilled is the same as thinking that a woman is not fulfilled unless and until she has a child because “women are born into this world to be mothers”?

    How many people have no regrets at the end of their lifetime?

    I’d say there is a difference between regretting something that one did or didn’t do vs wishing that life had turned out differently. Not everything depends on our choices, a lot of things happen by chance.

    I am writing all this to figure out whether I am doing all I possibly can to find “the one.”

    Or if I do everything right, but fall for wrong men that can’t give me what I need, how can I rewire myself?

    Just last week, one more funny coincidence. Right after I started doubting – yet again – my ability to attract men, I started being pursued by a guy as old as my mother from the seamanship program. By the way, that may be the origin of my “family portrait test” – how on Earth can he have thought that he and I might have anything in common??? I think it is as clear as day that I am not the girl for him just by looking at us.

    So every time I doubt whether I am attractive to men, I start being pursued by men with whom I couldn’t see myself even in a nightmare.

    So yes, men do pursue. And if they don’t, most likely they are “just not that into you.” Of course, they can be very noble and simply not want to lead you on thinking that nothing good will come out of it.

    And every time I feel happy and busy and fulfilled on my own thinking “finally, I am not daydreaming about anybody, let it go on like this” OR every time I start doubting whether men to whom I can be attracted still exist, I fall for (mildly, not madly – just like for that jockey on the trip) an unavailable man. Either married or with a partner and either noticing me or not OR happy on his own not looking for anybody, again either noticing me or not, but not taking any steps as if saying “I do like you, but I am not a good match for you – too old, too something, there is no future for us even if we wanted, so I don’t go beyond enjoying your company in formal settings.”

    Just met a man like that on a business trip. He reminded me very much of the jockey guy and of that happy-on-his-own single guy who warmed my hands in a very tender gesture three years ago. By the way, the latter is coming back in a couple of months. Such a pity that he is way too old for me…

    Back to “the one.” You, on the contrary, seem to be telling me that I don’t “have to,” that I can and should be able to live without striving to have a partner. (Note – not “without a partner,” but “without doing anything to find one.”)

    Is that so?

    Were any of your exes emotionally supportive for you?

    Yes, I would say so. Otherwise I wouldn’t have thought that they were just so right for me and that I was so lucky to have met them. To be more exact, I thought they were supportive, but now, looking back, I am not so sure. Furthermore, again, I don’t know – is it me who is so demanding whereas they were doing just what was “normal” or is it them who didn’t go all the way to meet me halfway?… Like you said, they were not my father and could never be.

    So when was it that you manage to get him on the phone? And for someone supposedly with NPD to admit that he made a blunder is amazing because a Narcissist has such an inflated ego that it’s not that he was wrong, but that everyone was wrong.

    See about so-called “covert narcissists”: https://www.verywellmind.com/understanding-the-covert-narcissist-4584587

    https://medium.com/@meredith_kav/7-characteristics-of-a-covert-narcissist-72754ae31cd9

    Then he offered to return to you since it seems that his new partner might leave him? Where’s the confidence that he would succeed? How is that doing everything he can to obtain what he wants, irregardless of what the other party wants? He was actually taking into consideration the other party? But came running back to you with his tail between his leg when it seems that his new partner might dump him after all? Again, what happen to his supposedly self inflated ego?

    “Came running back… with his tail between his leg” is very exaggerated. He was clearly very shaken by his lover’s refusal to communicate with him and he was clearly thinking about what else he could do – yes – to obtain what he wanted – her. He tentatively tried to prepare the grounds for return (to me) because he couldn’t stand being single (narcissists need another person as a breath of life). Just in case. That is why it sounded something like, “Well, but if you so want, we might try again, sometime, if my now romance doesn’t work…” Not very adamant at all, he was clearly all thoughts about that other woman. But he couldn’t let go of having a backup plan (me). Just in case. I read that one of narcissists’ traits is that they always have a number of ladies around them, exes or “friends,” so that you KNOW deep down, no matter what they are telling you about you being the one and only, that you can be replaced in no time if you don’t “behave.”

    By the way, he continues doing this.

    So he liked to call to make sure you were still thinking of him. That’s a more dependent attitude since he can’t bare for you to drop him. A Narcissist would leave you for some time (months) with no communications to come back with the confidence that you would welcome him with open arms. Again, they are ‘God’ so whatever they do is correct.

    “…most narcissists can be classified as codependent”: https://psychcentral.com/lib/when-a-narcissist-is-also-codependent/

    Besides, do you remember how he tried once to go without communication and I called him out on it? He cared too much at that point not to comply.

    Ghosting happens mostly because many people do not like the act of confronting others. A Narcissist would drop you the moment they deem you worthless and would like you to disappear from their life so would have no problem dumping you to make the process go that much more quicker. Again, doing whatever they need to to obtain what they want.

    GL, from what you replied here, I don’t see how ghosting is incompatible with being a narc.

    “A Narcissist will ghost you in this circumstance because they aren’t interested in being berated or having to fess up that their behavior was less than stellar” – https://esteemology.com/the-silent-treatment-a-narcissists-tool-for-psychological-warfare/

    A Narcissist has the need to be worshiped, but they also do well in treating everyone around them as idiots and imbeciles so wouldn’t deign to associate with them if they can help it. So for your ex to have a lot of exes is normal, but not really normal for a Narcissist since they really can’t stand the presence of most people.

    I think you are painting all narcissists with too broad a brush. About a narc’s “harem”:

    https://esteemology.com/the-narcissist-and-his-harem-why-you-should-decline-membership/

    https://blogs.psychcentral.com/recovering-narcissist/2018/08/research-finds-that-narcissists-try-to-remain-friends-with-their-exes-for-darker-reasons/

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ezjy3m/narcissists-and-psychopaths-love-to-stay-friends-with-their-exes

    So you want someone to entertain you? But indeed, if your company was so interesting, then why the need to seek the company of others?

    GL, why are you twisting words and meanings? How did you come up with “entertain” from what I had written?

    I thought we had established that I was not seeking the company of “otherS,” but of the “one.”

    Don’t they all say that the right approach is that one’s life is already interesting as is, but the presence of the other makes it more interesting? Again, a quote from Mark Mason’s “Love Is Not Enough”, “A loving relationship is supposed to supplement our individual identity.”

    I am afraid we are coming back full circle to discussing whether one needs friends or partners AT ALL in one’s life. The same article goes“Love is a wonderful experience. It’s one of the greatest experiences life has to offer. And it is something everyone should aspire to feel and enjoy…. Love is great. Love is necessary. Love is beautiful.”

    You convinced yourself that he was ‘the one’. What objective/subjective facts did you use?

    I believe I described it all already. The chemistry, what “dance” he was dancing around me and how madly in love I was and whom I had before him (with whom it hadn’t worked out) was sure subjective as probably was his appearance that I liked. His education and station in life fitting what I would like to see in a partner was objective. Naturally, when one finds out that one likes the same films and books, one thinks that the other person sees the same in them that you see in them.

    I really don’t see how I can bypass “partner chemistry” that a) can be there at first and then vanish; b) be there the whole time; c) not be there at first (for no longer than a day) and then appear.

    It seems to be the same for “male friend chemistry,” but the two never overlap.

    For instance, you could say that I met and attracted somebody because I was miserable and he was miserable. Along the same lines, you could say that I met and attracted somebody because I was miserable and he was happy-go-lucky and I wanted to be happy-go-lucky, too.

    Has such a situation played out for anyone whom you know or met?

    They say the latter (miserable) was the case for a colleague of mine who married the boss of my “big boss.”

    Another colleague of mine who complained about her now husband. She was actively looking for a husband for several years. As for him, his parents thought that he would remain single since he hadn’t had a girlfriend for some time before the two met and just lived from work to gym and vice versa. She basically pursued him and made him see the future with her. She was the one who started talking to me about all those “female tricks,” like saying one happened to have tickets and no one to go with – would you like to go? She had the idea that the guy would get used to having you by his side and that would naturally lead to a girlfriend/boyfriend and marriage. The idea is not new, but doesn’t work for everybody. But she has been married to him for two years now and seems to be happy expecting a child now.

    I wasn’t my happy self when that happy-go-lucky single guy came for his yet another long-term stint in this country. I had liked him before, even when I was with my ex – I knew back then that if I wanted to remain faithful, I had better keep away from him. I also took it as a sign that I was not as co-dependent with my ex as I was afraid I was. Nothing suggested that he wanted to have a fling with me, but the chemistry was sure there and a little bit of flirting and that how he warmed my hands… Yes, it is such a pity that he is over sixty now…

    He was the one about whom I wrote to Matt that I could imagine myself with him and not even think about the ”guy who led me on” or anybody else. Yet, now I think that I could say exactly the same about the “big boss” or the jockey or that man from the business trip. Which means that they are interchangeable as objects of my affection. How could I show that I am interested in somebody if I can easily see him being replaced with somebody else?

    But do you really know what is going on in the heart of hearts even of your close friends and family??? There is no telling really.

    It’s vague in that the promise was set for two years. What can you even predict about a person in two years and have it be true?

    He knew he had that promotion coming, and everything was hinged on it.

    Now questions for you. If “People attract others of similar mind and heart,” why am I only attracting those whom I can’t stand now?

    Because you won’t just attract people that are similar?

    Why not? I quote from your last by one letter, “It’s no wonder you attracted the attention of your ex then, seeing as he simply found someone who is somewhat similar to him. The oriental saying fits into why you started the relationship. Your mind and heart were in similar places so of course you found him comforting.” Further down, “People attract others of similar mind and heart.”

    If I was X and attracted him who was X’, too – if I am now Y, why don’t I attract somebody who is Y’?

    How much emphasis are you placing on having a spark? Or on that list of yours? How much emphasis are you placing on whether the person you meet is the one? How much are you assuming about the person before even knowing much about them?

    Please see above about the spark. If I don’t feel spark – or “partner chemistry” (at whatever stage of relationship with the man) – or that desire to hug and kiss [would all that be interchangeable for you for our purposes here?] – why would I want a relationship or why would I want to lead the man to believe that I am interested in him if I can’t make myself kiss him?

    As far as the list or pressure to know whether he is the one or assumptions, can’t you tell yourself now after having read my replies for half a year now that yes, these are important, but they are not deal-breakers? More than that, again, referring to “Love Is Not Enough,” don’t you think that those lists of mine actually keep me from doing all sorts of crazy things?

    His relationship was over when his wife kicked him out. It just took four years to finalized it.

    Right, but he was still married for four (!) years while being in another relationship. You sound like a married man is a no-go no matter what his real situation is, until he has been divorced and has lived on his own for at least one year after that.

    You can’t compare the situation of those people to yours. You are not them and they are not you. So the choices that you and your ex would make will be different compare to those you know of because it’s your choice and not theirs and vice versa. You don’t really know what someone would do until they have done it.

    Okay, then what is the point of talking about trends and tendencies, physiological types, married men and women, narcissists or not? If everybody is so unique, there is simply no telling AT ALL.

    Of course, that you would choose to believe your ex after two years surprise me.

    Per above, my ex potentially could divorce in our third year, could he not? And so he could in Year 4 and in Year 5 and in Year 6. Not so?

    Why the need to compare yourself physically? Even if you don’t find them attractive, someone else might. And just like you? Why would anyone ever wish to be like you?

    Firstly, I didn’t only mention the physical aspect.

    Secondly, statistics tell us that men in their midlife crises, often leave their wives of twenty years for women twenty years their younger and marry them (or not). But of course, if everyone is unique, one can throw statistics out of the window.

    I visited his website and it seems that he is married.

    Even if it is so, how long he has been married for?

    I say that advice on how to have a fifty-year long marriage can only be given by those who have had a fifty-year long marriage.

    If one says, “if only I or s/he had done so and so, we would be celebrating our fiftieth anniversary today,” I don’t buy it because “ifs” in this case are wishful thinking.

    Feels right so far. And while waiting for the other person to show his true colours, I only get deeper and deeper attached to the point that when the true colours are half-revealed (because normally there is always room for saying “innocent UNTIL proved guilty”), I no longer have the strength to break away because by then I have already invested so much emotionwise and timewise. The former and the latter including my daydreaming.

    Then maybe it’s time that you learn how to end things and let them go.

    But how can I end things if he is still “innocent”?

    It was such a relief for me when I finally got him on the phone that he had fallen in love with somebody, because then I knew that that meant that he was not the one for me. Him saying that we might try “if I so wanted,” while still clearly pining after the other lady WAS the PROOF for me that he was NOT morally perfect. That is why I laughed bitterly after the conversation was over.

    Everything before that could have been interpreted in either way, no matter what you think. That one was final.

    And yet you didn’t run for the hills when you found out that he was divorced before nor did you question why you seem to be attracted to married men the most, irregardless of their promises to you.

    Why would I run for the hills if a man I like has been divorced in the past?

    And yes, I had questioned before him why I was attracted to older (and almost inevitably married men or men with partners), had some ideas, but nothing definite. Still don’t. Yes, one can see certain trends, but I can always give you a couple of exceptions to each generalisation you might want to make. I believe I have already done it multiple times.

    You want someone to be with you until death, but just because you are married, doesn’t mean that your husband would be there for you.

    It wouldn’t it be nice to be one of those couples that die five minutes apart as we sometimes read in the news, wouldn’t it?

    Again, I clearly differentiate between wants and reality – how rarely that happens. And yes, I do turn around and see a lot of marriages I would never want to be a part of. But again, I am not them and they are not me, as you said. So what’s the point?

    But this vague idea of “finding the one, marrying and living happily ever after until dying on the same day” is very, very ingrained in my psyche. You know, when you are asked about something, you normally get an image of it in your mind? Like, when I say “sweet,” what come to mind? Well, this is the image I get when you say, “Imagine your ideal life.” All other rational considerations come after it, but this image is there before everything else.

    That’s heavy and it will take someone like you, heavily dependent on another for their own happiness, to even attempt such a daring task.

    So is the task to find somebody just as dependent as me?

    Or even that wouldn’t help because co-dependent people break up as soon as one party stops fulfilling the other’s needs like the story with my ex showed?

    So you tell me, why can’t you make yourself happy? How is it the job of another person to make you happy? Especially when they weren’t born to make anyone else, but themselves, happy. You have your hobbies, but even that doesn’t give you much happiness. So can’t count that as self-independence, but more of a way to stave off boredom. That, and it’s a way to meet new people who might be a potential partner. Then there’s your friendship, but even that doesn’t give you much satisfaction. Rather, you still need a romantic partner and you are constantly searching for one, or at least, always having your radar on and about.

    Hm-m-m, I don’t know. One day I feel exactly like you are writing about my hobbies and all, another day I feel like I am so happy on my own and don’t need and don’t want (WANT!) anybody in my life.

    I have no answer for you as to why it is so. Feminine moodiness, hormones at play, inherited genes – who can tell?

    Okay, that’s fine, but why is that the main one? Why is most of your focus on finding a partner when you have many possibilities in front of you? Do you not have other dreams? Isn’t there anything else you want to do?

    And that is because the ingrained image is the one that one’s life is not complete until one has found one’s “better half” – that falsely reported myth by Plato about humans split in half (falsely because Plato talked not only about heterosexual love, but homosexual as well and not only about them).

    Again, this is the first image coming to mind when called, all other facts (like what else Plato was talking about, all rational data about lives, families, partners, satisfaction in life, etc. etc) coming later.

    Ultimately, what is not satisfying about your current situation and why can’t you resolve that for yourself without having to rely on someone else?

    Well, it has been for some time now that I have been quite busy after all my travels, not having settled down into my regular routine, have worked with a few men at work, so have been getting male attention and have had social interactions just in the right amount for me as an introvert, that right now as I am writing this I am perfectly happy and content. Even if we talk about sexual satisfaction, two years ago I started getting orgasms in my dreams at night, so one can say that I am all well even from the biological standpoint.

    But now we are coming to what you wrote about friends / partners.

    Humans evolved needing each other for protection and to continue the population. And somehow, along the way, the need of connection seemed to have wormed their way into the equation. But the terms of connection and social involvement depend heavily on the choices of the individual. Anyone can choose to be a nomad while others will choose to be part of a herd. It is a choice to think that being with someone is happiness while it is a choice to leave a person.

    If you ask somebody why they are nomads and not settled, they will probably tell you that they are used to it and like it that way. The key word is “like.” It is hardly a conscious choice. If it was, American Indians would have easily adapted to settlements as Europeans wanted them to. One either likes something or don’t, and then the brain finds reasons for that so that the choice is validated. Say, my girlfriend stays at home after childbirth as long as the law and finances allow her; my aunt went to work as soon as she could after childbirth because she wanted to. They chose different things because they had different desires. I doubt my aunt would have been happy as a housewife (even if she had made a choice to stay at home), just as I doubt that my girlfriend will go to work any time soon and be really happy working.

    What is not satisfying about my current situation is that I don’t have a loving partner whom I love, too. How can I resolve that I don’t have that partner without having a partner???

    P.S. As for weight management, laws of physics are still applicable. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Unused energy gets stored. Which means that the input was greater than the output. Yes, the three most common hormones that can cause weight gain are thyroid hormones, cortisol, and insulin. However, as I said, slow metabolism, diseases (and diseases that cause one to put on weight even though one is surviving on bread and water are few and far between – similar to that hype about gluten intolerance) and whatnot didn’t prevent people from drastically losing weight in Hitler’s camps. Calories are calories, no matter where they come from. People have lost weight eating at McDonald’s watching their calorie equations. Sure, fast food lacks in minerals and vitamins, but are you trying to tell me that modern food deserts are worse in that respect than concentration camps? I lost weight in the past managing my diet and without resorting to exercise. My mother, while undergoing menopause, lost weight eliminating white bread and sweets from her diet, again, with no exercise. My aunt, while going through menopause, was surprised to learn that “healthy pistachios,” which she consumed in significant quantities, were actually quite rich in calories. My uncle lost his pot belly and returned to his lean figure of twenty some years ago when faced with the prospect of operation on clogged arteries. I have colleagues who say that they are so thin because they constantly watch what they eat and have to do with a salad with no dressing whereas their young sons consume meat and steaks. I had a colleague in the past who thought she would lose weight eating salad profusely dressed with mayonnaise. I often see overweight people snacking on crisps and chocolate bars and preferring to drive twenty meters instead of walking. Ignorance is bliss, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and it is always easier to blame circumstances than one’s own lack of willpower. I have relatives who can’t have a vegetable patch by their place, but they have one in a twenty-minute ride on a bus. And they do go there regularly to tend to their plants.

    #321257

    X
    Participant

    Seems like every time after moderation, the page with Topics never gets updated and the post never gets to the top…

    #322415

    GL
    Participant

    Hey X,

    It’s so nice to see people so excited for the holidays.

    See about so-called “covert narcissists”: https://www.verywellmind.com/understanding-the-covert-narcissist-4584587

    https://medium.com/@meredith_kav/7-characteristics-of-a-covert-narcissist-72754ae31cd9

    For your ex to be a covert narcissist, he would either have to be an introverted kind of person or someone who keeps victimizing himself, blaming others for his failure. He doesn’t sound like either from what I can remember of what you’ve written so far. And if he felt hurt by his new love interest, then he would have turned aggressive and defensive. Since he felt wronged by her, he would have raged against her. Seemed he turned businesslike instead by asking if you would want to start over again if the new relationship didn’t work. If he lacked empathy, he wouldn’t have thought of anyone, especially in his actions. He could tell you one thing, yet actions speak louder than words. Everyone has a sense of entitlement, but it didn’t seem that he took it too far, not like those who have stalked other people. Doesn’t seem that he has too much of a grandiose sense of ego yet.

    You predicted that he would divorced and married you. But he didn’t. So you can’t compare your situation to the situation of others because they all made a choice that either worked toward their relationship or broke it apart. Your ex made a choice that tore apart the relationship; those who had successful relationships made choices and acted upon them in a way that kept those relationship going. It’s not about being special, but about making the choice to commit and work on that commitment or don’t commit and let the relationship fall apart. They had a choice and your ex had a choice. But they all chose differently.

    So let’s move on from that.

    If you ask somebody why they are nomads and not settled, they will probably tell you that they are used to it and like it that way. The key word is “like.” It is hardly a conscious choice. If it was, American Indians would have easily adapted to settlements as Europeans wanted them to. One either likes something or don’t, and then the brain finds reasons for that so that the choice is validated. Say, my girlfriend stays at home after childbirth as long as the law and finances allow her; my aunt went to work as soon as she could after childbirth because she wanted to. They chose different things because they had different desires. I doubt my aunt would have been happy as a housewife (even if she had made a choice to stay at home), just as I doubt that my girlfriend will go to work any time soon and be really happy working.

    Actually, it’s about value. A person can only ‘like’ something for so long and not all the time. Your friend valued motherhood while your aunt valued her career. While they have decided that those situation make them happy, it won’t be happy all the time. There will be problems that they will encountered, but the meaning and value behind choosing being a mother or having a good career is something they chose to value so they can work hard towards it, problems and all. So what’s your value?

    Why this?

    “But this vague idea of “finding the one, marrying and living happily ever after until dying on the same day” is very, very ingrained in my psyche. You know, when you are asked about something, you normally get an image of it in your mind? Like, when I say “sweet,” what come to mind? Well, this is the image I get when you say, “Imagine your ideal life.” All other rational considerations come after it, but this image is there before everything else.”

    Or this:

    Hm-m-m, I don’t know. One day I feel exactly like you are writing about my hobbies and all, another day I feel like I am so happy on my own and don’t need and don’t want (WANT!) anybody in my life.

    I have no answer for you as to why it is so. Feminine moodiness, hormones at play, inherited genes – who can tell?

    Where does your belief in ‘forever’ relationships come from?

Viewing 3 posts - 91 through 93 (of 93 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Please log in OR register.