- This topic has 41 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 6 months ago by Michelle.
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May 20, 2019 at 12:43 am #294651TomParticipant
I go to the gym and remain active and this helps my stress. I have a call with the company who have offered the job today and feel they will want a decision. I am still not 100% sure what is best and will have a think today and make a call.
May 20, 2019 at 8:56 am #294711AnonymousGuestDear Tom:
If you haven’t made the decision yet, if you didn’t quit your job and said yes to the other company, then make sure you sit quietly someplace, have a quiet time alone, in a relaxing atmosphere at home or outside. Take slow, deep breaths, clear your mind, then think, maybe do so by writing (thinking-while-writing helps me, calms me, makes it easier for me to think clearly), and try to reach a decision in that calm mindset.
I hope to read from you soon.
anita
May 22, 2019 at 2:40 am #295057TomParticipantHi Anita,
The plot thickened over the last few days. I verbally accepted the offer but then found out from the company that in order to process payment it would need to be done via an umbrella company or I set up a ltd company in my name.
I wasn’t aware of this process at all so think it may have made the decision for me.
May 22, 2019 at 5:23 am #295063AnonymousGuestDear Tom:
An umbrella company.. an ltd company, don’t know what these mean to you but clearly not something good or convenient, so you are staying in your current position, I understand?
What would it mean to you, arranging for your payment through an umbrella or an ltd company?
anita
May 22, 2019 at 7:08 am #295085MichelleParticipantHi Tom,
That’s not unusual, especially if you are UK/Europe-based. Like I mentioned, many tax advantages currently in doing so, so it’s pretty standard practice in the contracting market for now.
It isn’t that difficult to do if you still think it is the right move for you – but it is why I asked whether you see this as a move into contracting for a while or simply as a stepping-stone back into another perm job eventually. It will help you decide whether it is worth the effort to set yourself up.
Did you work out if the rate was still higher once you’d accounted for holiday/sick/training etc?
Sounds to me as though you think that would be one step too far for you, too complicated? If so, perhaps now is a good time to actively look at the job market and see what else is on offer.
May 23, 2019 at 12:35 am #295249TomParticipantHi both,
I am UK/EU based. I do not want to be a conractor but this company is somewhere I have always wanted to work so was prepared to go and proove myself and try and earn a perm position.
The rate was still higher but I do not want to set up a LTD company for 6 months. I have an accountant in the family and they advised me agaisnt doing this. I let the company know this and they are looking into other options and will feedback to me.
May 23, 2019 at 5:55 am #295261AnonymousGuestDear Tom:
I looked up LTD, Wikipedia has this on it: “In a limited company, the liability of members or subscribers of the company is limited to what they have invested or guaranteed to the company. Limited companies may be limited by shares or by guarantee…”- I understood nothing except that LTD stands for Limited Company. Now I know. Therefore, if I was you, I too would listen to the advice of an accountant.
Reads like the company you are interested in is looking for other options. I hope they do find a better option for you. Hoping to read your next update soon enough.
anita
May 23, 2019 at 11:10 am #295339TomParticipantHi Anita,
They have come back and offered me a revised offer.
I would now be a direct employee of the the company for a fixed contract until the end of the year. I would be entitled to holiday pay and all the other benefits.
The decision is now back with me and if I view it as worth the risk.
Thanks
May 23, 2019 at 11:42 am #295345AnonymousGuestDear Tom:
You are welcome. It reads to me that this company is very interested in you working there. I think that if it is likely that you will be able to pay your mortgage next year even if the new company doesn’t extend the contract or hires you, then it is probably a good idea to take it.
Remember, there is always a risk. Try to differentiate between very significant risks (ex. permanent unemployment and homelessness), significant risks (long term unemployment and losing your home, moving to an apartment) and way less significant risks (short term unemployment). Estimate the chances for each category of risk and decide based on those approximate statistical chances.
If you make a decision based on your fear alone, you will not make any progress in life because in each and every progress there is some risk involved, and therefore, there is fear.
I remember a line from a guided meditation I heard: “Every one of us has to find a way to live with fear”. No matter how desperately a person tries to make their life very safe and secure, it can’t be done. After all, there is risk in staying the same, holding on to things just as they are too!
anita
May 23, 2019 at 2:28 pm #295379TomParticipantHi Anita,
Yes, it’s a good sign that they have made these changes to try and get me on board.
I know it’s the fear that is making me question it. I’ve always wanted to work here and know that deep down.
The risk is there because of the length of contract but it could become perm if it goes well. I don’t have huge savings to cover the mortgage for a longtime and would have to back myself to work again if this didn’t materialise to long term.
They did previously say that we would have regular updates during the tenure about the future of the role and whether it would extend.
May 23, 2019 at 2:34 pm #295383AnonymousGuestDear Tom:
I read your recent post but am not focused at this time. I will re-read it and anything you may add when I am back to the computer in about 16 hours. I hope you have a relaxing rest of the day/ evening.
anita
May 23, 2019 at 7:22 pm #295401AnonymousGuestDear Tom:
I turned on the computer this evening for one purpose, to post to you. I just spoke with a person with a lot of experience dealing with contracting companies, who was in the position of hiring people for a big company (US). He said that as a manager for twelve years he never had the opportunity to hire a contractor because the fees are too high. These are sometimes called finder’s fees that the employer has to pay the contracting company in order to hire the contractor (that would be you) as a company employee.
Some contracting companies are better than others about benefits and pay, but they are all pretty much well.. (my source’s word) pimps that that make money from their workers, the contractors (that would be you). You have to be cautious because you may have to pay your own taxes, fund your own vacations, fund your own retirement, etc.. At the end of the contract (the six month) the contracting may cut you loose, and you are basically unemployed.
This is all news to me, so as I heard it I had to let you know. My source told me that you need to really crunch the numbers and see if it makes sense, you need to have really sizeable savings so that in case there is not contract continuance or another company to go to, you can still pay your mortgage and not lose your house. My source has seen contractors that didn’t get another position for 2-3 months. Skilled contractors plan for this, typically having 4- 6 months expenses in the bank.
anita
May 23, 2019 at 11:46 pm #295413TomParticipantHi Anita
I appreciate you coming back online to respond. The revised offer they gave me meant I would not be a contractor. I would be a direct employee of the company so would get all the company benefits etc, just on a fixed contract. The goal would be for it to become permanent at the end of this. Tax, holiday etc would be covered by the company.
I turned down the original offer because I did not want to be a contractor and have no holiday pay etc as did not feel it was beneficial to me.
May 24, 2019 at 12:07 am #295415MichelleParticipantHey Tom,
Sounds like they have gone out of their way to make this work for you – which is a very good sign. It is not unusual to only be able to offer the contract until the end of the year, it’s how internal budgets work and they will likely be unable to get approval for any longer. The budget process is also often odd in that perm headcount and budget spend are two different things. When I was managing my teams for example I would often have budget for contractors but would be unable to hire perm people because of head count limits.
So, worst case, you are relying on them to have the same budget again next year to extend the contract, which is likely. Best case, whilst you are there they make the case for an additional headcount and you become perm. It is also much easier to apply for other perm jobs once you are in the company just through your increased connections etc. So all sounds pretty good to me for a company you want to work for in a role that will stretch you – as said, all life is a risk but this is a pretty well-balanced one in my view.
Anita, if it helps – the savings advice is good advice but it applies to both contract and perm people since both roles are at risk. Many perm jobs have very short notice periods these days, though still a couple weeks longer than contract roles. 2-3 months is the average time it takes to find and start a new job, though contract can often be quicker than perm to start. So regardless of which role, pretty much everyone is recommended to have an emergency fund to cover 2-3 months living expenses when possible, though know it’s harder when starting out. There’s finder’s fees for both perm and contract roles, the level depends on the agency used – some are much worse than others for sure!
Hope helps. Happy to help out on any other practical q’s – as Anita said, I’ve spent a fair bit of my life successfully negotiating these things! Am out now, back late Sat (UK time )
May 24, 2019 at 1:13 am #295423TomParticipantHi Guys,
Regarding savings, I don’t have a massive amount but will just have to be careful with money during this assignment.
Before I accept any offer, I will reiterate to the company that I want regular updates on how all parties feel its going and the chances of it becoming perm/extended. I do feel a lot better about the situation now I will be a direct employee of the company. That instantly makes me feel a little bit more stable. I will speak to them later today and hopefully they will give me the weekend to think before making a final call.
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