May 24, 2019 at 5:29 am #295431
You did write yesterday: “I would now be a direct employee of the company for a fixed contract”- I missed the words “a direct employee”- so the “fixed contract” in this sentence is a contract with the company you will be working for, not with a contracting company.
Thank you, Michelle, for your note to me in your recent post. I will re-read it and Tom’s posts later today so to understand better.
anitaMay 24, 2019 at 6:46 am #295435
Yes, it would be direct contract with the company I am working for until the end of 2019. The hope is that would become permament after that.May 24, 2019 at 12:01 pm #295573
This is a very busy day at tiny buddha and I feel that my focus is diminishing, therefore I am back without re-reading your thread. What I want to say does not require re-reading:
1- Your choice to quit your current position and accept employment with the other company for the next six month or not, is a highly personal decision. What I mean by it is that anyone giving you advice regarding what is best for you to do, will not be there with you as you execute the advice given. It will be you on the train doing a long commute, no advice-giver sitting there with you. It will be you at the end of the six months with possibly no job, not anyone giving you advice.
You have to choose not according to strict logic alone. You have to incorporate into your choice-making your personal emotional experience of life. You know your personal experience of anxiety. An advice giver may experience less anxiety than you, day in and day out, and so, their advice is missing a very important component- Tom’s personal mental and emotional constitution.
2- There are certain accepted norms in modern society, one is to always strive to make progress in life, to make more money and gain more prestige. It is often not a wise guideline. After all, there are and have been plenty of miserable people with lots of money and prestige, even international fame.
You want to keep your home, it is important to you, then do what it takes to keep it, so you have your home. You need money to pay necessary bills, see to it that you do that. See to it that you keep and get what you need, not what capitalism tells you that you should strive to have.
3- You wrote that there is low morale in your current company. If there is disrespect or abuse directed at you, some sort of workplace bullying, you definitely want to escape that. But morale, it is common, for it to be not great anywhere, isn’t it? I mean what employee doesn’t want to pack up and go home sometime during the day, maybe repeatedly… to leave work and sit in an outdoor restaurant and sip wine perhaps, or go to the beach? Isn’t this employee-desire-to-leave the workplace on a daily basis the reason why employers offer employees treats, from a … new popcorn machine in the lunch room to a Christmas bonus?
I don’t know specifically what you mean by low morale, so I am limited by not knowing.
This is all I have for now. I will be glad to read from you anytime.
anitaMay 25, 2019 at 8:40 am #295663
* Dear Michelle/ Tom:
I am very unfamiliar with these things, Michelle, and I hope you are okay explaining the following to me just a bit:
You wrote: “Many perm jobs have very short notice periods these days, though still a couple weeks longer than contract roles”- what is the nature of the “perm” part in perm jobs then?
“There’s finder’s fees for both perm and contract roles, the level depends on the agency used”- if a person applies directly to a company, no finder’s fee, correct?
If a person is listed in Linkedin and gets an offer through Linkedin, is there a finder’s fee paid to.. Linkedin?
If it is not a contracting agency that is involved, then what kind of agency asks for a finder’s fee?
anitaMay 25, 2019 at 12:19 pm #295683
Sure, happy to try – this is all UK/EU based, US is another law into itself with even less perm rights usually as I understand it.
The nature of ‘perm’ is as you implied earlier on, much less ‘perm’ than most people tend to believe them to be. It’s a big part of why a lot of people in the kinds of industry I worked in preferred to be self-employed contractors – bizarrely more control over their own future. But that’s not what you asked, apols. So in UK, notice periods for new roles tend to be one month, rising with seniority and length at company. Most contracts have 2 weeks notice, some one week and some one month. So at the outset, not a huge difference in notice period between perm and contract. Perm jobs come with worker rights, as Tom says, re holiday pay, sick pay, training etc etc. It’s the big difference between the two and why contract roles tend to pay higher as you are basically charging the company for your own estimate of those benefits to you. There are laws around the process to make perm roles redundant as opposed to simply giving contractors their notice. But statutory redundancy pay (in UK at least) is very minimal, good companies pay much higher than they are legally obliged to do. If the number of roles being made redundant is less than a certain number, it can be a quick process – but it is a process and then you are paid your notice & stat.redundancy minimum. So they are better than contract roles if you are not interested in the flexibility and higher pay of contracting long time but as you said, not a guarantee, still with their own risks.
Correct, no fee if the person applies direct but that’s pretty unusual these days. Most people once they have a few years experience under their belt will move through a recruitment agency, not directly and tbh, I’ve heard of very few people getting hired via LinkedIn not through an agency. Agencies charge differently for contractors vs perms and amounts also depend on how new they are, how much they want your business, usual supply/demand stuff! LinkedIn is pushed hard by HR departments internally in order to save the agency fees but most manager’s will tell you it very rarely results in finding quality people at the speed needed.
Hope that helps explain a bit – and as said, all based on my own/colleagues experience/knowledge, sure others have much good wisdom too for sure. Btw – Tom – totally second Anita’s comments on this is your own decision, it’s what you think is the right decision for you. If you are really worried, you can buy insurance to pay your mortgage in the event of extended unemployment. A long commute is tiring, I personally found it worth it but that’s in large part because it fitted with my own long-term plan to retire very early. So long as you know why you are doing it, that’s what’s important. Best of luck whichever way you go.May 26, 2019 at 12:07 am #295719
Thanks both for all your input.May 26, 2019 at 6:06 am #295729
You are welcome. I hope you post again anytime you would like to and I will be glad to reply.
* Thank you, Michelle. I greatly appreciate your explanation and I can’t imagine it not being useful to Tom, or anyone based in the UK (and maybe elsewhere) who reads your input.
In the US there still is such a thing as a permanent job, a job guaranteed until the employee is severely incapacitated or dead, ex., teachers in a public school, city/government employees, and that is because of the powerful Unions. At least, it was so ten years ago, last time I was an employee, before I finally withdrew into the woods where I live.
anitaMay 28, 2019 at 5:09 am #296047
Thanks Anita, glad it helped and if it helps others, good. Interesting about the difference between public and private roles. Most of my colleagues in the US were on a much shorter notice period, usually two weeks max! There is much less union influence here in the UK, though depends on what industry, defn still stronger in the public sector.
Can entirely understand retiring to the woods as it was actually one of my big reasons for enduring with the long commute for so long – it meant I could stay living out in the country and not move into the city. Was worth it for me by far, both mentally and financially!
MichelleJune 12, 2019 at 2:24 pm #298729
I have accepted the new role and am looking forward to the move. I am currently working my notice in my current position.
One thing that has happened that has made me feel indifferent is that one of my friends/colleagues has been offered the role I am vacating. A few weeks/months earlier he was encouraging me to take the leap with this new role/challenge.
It doesn’t bother me as I know I have made the decision that is best for me as I was unhappy etc as stated above. Just wanted to get this down off my chest.June 12, 2019 at 2:43 pm #298733
Good to read your update. What you mean regarding your friend/ colleague is that he purposefully encouraged you to quit your current job so to take it himself?
Maybe that was not his purpose and it just so happened that he was offered the job you are vacating?
anitaJune 12, 2019 at 11:41 pm #298763
Yes, that’s what I mean.
It probably wasn’t his intention and is just how it’s played out.June 13, 2019 at 12:00 am #298765
Good to hear from you and glad it sounds like it’s worked out well.
Yeah – it’s always an odd feeling anyway when you get replaced, even when you are the one who’s chosen to move on. I know I’ve certainly felt it and if you’ve been somewhere a long time it can take a while to become less emotionally attached to the old job/place, even when you want to move on. It can also be hard to imagine anyone can do your old job as well as you did, even when you know logically you started in exactly the same place.
Seems unlikely they encouraged you on simply for the opportunity to get your job but I get it can make you feel just a little doubtful about their intentions at the time. Like you say, the important thing is you made the right decision for you so it doesn’t matter either way. Hope you are also feeling excited about starting your new opportunity and good luck with it all.