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Not Sure What To Do – Is It Worth Fighting For?

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This topic contains 40 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  anita 4 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #236063

    C
    Participant

    I can appreciate where  you’re coming from Loleta. However at the same time, if she feels like she still isn’t ready to be in a committed relationship she’s bound to be somewhat cagey about meeting up again. Besides she could have just flat out rejected it if she really didn’t want to meet. She made it perfectly clear she’s happy I’m in her life and that she’s never stayed in touch with an ex before. So that must count for something?

    She might be nervous at the prospect of opening up the possibility of resolution when both of us aren’t ready, which would probably lead to failure again. However, for me, the reason why I think it’s important to meet her now is so I can see how I’m feeling about her, and understand whether my feelings for her are based on an idea or a reality. If we both still have feelings we can discuss how we want to move forward.

     

    Anita, I think your initial comment is right. See how we feel, enjoy each others company and have a few laughs. The question of whether it was worth fighting for wasn’t in doubt for me, it’s whether she thinks it’s worth fighting for.

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  C.
    #236199

    anita
    Participant

    Dear  C:

    If you meet, when you do, I think it is a good  idea to keep it light and easy. Be as calm as you can be, having minimal expectations, and pay attention to what she says, how she says it, ask an open ended question here  and there,  gently, nothing heavy duty, but still a question that may give  you valuable information. I say open ended questions meaning not leading questions that can be cause her to  feel any kind  of pressure.

    Light and easy. I hope you post an update about the  meeting  before it  takes  place or after.

    anita

    #236205

    Mark
    Participant

    My take is that if you tell her you are taking a break with your “friendship” so you can focus on dating and creating a real relationship then she will get the message (in terms of actions not words) that you are emotionally moving on.

    It seems from your postings that you are still hanging on in some ways and she knows that.  She can behave however she behaves and know that you are willing to put up with that, still be around to talk or more whenever she decides to pull you back in.

    Mark

    #236307

    C
    Participant

    Hi Anita and Mark,

    Anita, I think that’s the best way to go about it. I’m obviously prepared if she asks me straight if I want more, but I don’t think she will. Just focusing on having a good time and gauging how she is with me. Equally I think you’re also right Mark. I am at risk of being seen as her emotional blanket, through difficult times, without the relationship. With that being said I think she still fosters some feelings for me, however I’m not sure if it’s mixed with a healthy dose of guilt about her part in the relationship failing.

    Depending on if we meet, and how the evening goes, I’ve been thinking a lot about putting my cards on the table a few days after. In essence, ring her up when she’s free to have a private talk and say how I’m feeling and what I’m looking for.  Making it clear my feelings for her run deep and acknowledging that maybe the time isn’t right for a relationship for us, but give us the option to do things if we both have time or want to.

    If she doesn’t feel the same way, it’s going to hurt but it’s better than being in this emotional purgatory indefinitely.

     

    #236327

    John
    Participant

    Oh my dear, sweet brother….

     

    You have fallen in a trap that many of us men have fallen in before. For some reason, we are hardwired to think that almost any positive attention from someone we are interested in means that they want to bear our children and be with us forever (that’s obviously hyperbolic for comedic effect, but it isn’t that far off, either). I will put it bluntly to save you some time. You can either just outright ask her “Look, I feel like what happened is much different than how we both thought it would work out, so what do you think about giving it another shot now”, or you can just be happy with a friend. And to be completely blunt, I don’t hold out much hope for the first part. This isn’t because she is out of your league, or you are undeserving, or anything. But she has broadcast to you that she enjoys knowing and speaking to you, but that she does not enjoy being intimate with you. Yes, it is a little unfair that she judged you based on performance while dealing with those issues, but thems the breaks sometimes. I once got intimate with a girl I had chased in high school for years but had drank too much. That was my one chance to make a good impression, and I failed badly. We still hang out as friends now, but she sees me as such a non-sexual entity now that I might as well be another woman.

     

    I would say just enjoy the attention she gives you. She likely REALLY DOES care for you and worries about you. But that doesn’t mean you are destined to be together. I would say play it aloof. Don’t be rudely so, but still, keep the conversations light and really listen to her. Empathize. Don’t give her solutions to her problems, just listen to them. Those are the sorts of things that women find attractive in a man most of the time. If there is a chance, and you treat her well as a friend, you might end up getting another chance. But more likely, you have been friendzoned, and that is okay.

    #236355

    anita
    Participant

    Dear C:

    I agree, to know the truth, be it a yes or a no, “it’s better than being in this emotional purgatory indefinitely”. I hope you will find out soon what is true.

    anita

    #238515

    C
    Participant

    Hi guys,

    So two things, I’m happy to report that my check up last week was without incident and we did meet after work. It’s worth noting though that she was playing it very aloof before we met. When I texted her the morning of the meeting, before I set off to my check up, she failed to get back to me. Both in her morning and lunch break, despite her being online at the time I sent it (Whatsapp messenger, online but didn’t ‘see it’). So at 3pm I rang her up, and although she didn’t pick it up, confirmed via text she was OK to meet at the train station. Perhaps she was hoping I’d just go home…

    Which to be honest was probably a good thing, because it lowered my expectations to almost none-existent. To cut a very long story short, it went really well. I’d changed so much she walked right past me! She was genuinely shocked, and the first thing she did was compliment me on how much weight I’ve lost, and I was looking great. We then skipped the coffee and went to a nice restaurant (her idea). We talked like it was old times on the way.

    Her body language the whole time was really open and positive. Not leaning back, having her arms folded or looking at her phone. She even admitted that her little brother still talks about me to her… the notable part of the evening was when I was laughing about my brother trying to find love on dating apps, and then her replying with “well we met each other on it”. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but why say that? I also made her aware that I had been on a few dates, but I wasn’t looking for anything serious. To which she replied she had had interest but she just didn’t have time for a relationship. Generally though, the conversation flowed, we both laughed lots and it was a really good night.

    We both said goodbye at the train station and I gave her a big hug, like I did at the start. I then got a text from her first, 5 minutes later, saying it was great to see me with a love heart at the end. I then replied with it was great to see her too, and that we should do it again soon. To which she replied, most definitely with another love heart.

    Her messages to me since then have definitely increased, but no where near pre-dating and dating levels. I tried to organise another drink for before Christmas, last weekend, but she said that she’s not sure she has the time with exams over the Christmas period. However she would let me know if she can find the time. Obviously her exams, work and family come first, but then again you make time for the things you want to make time for. Perhaps she’s still working out how she’s feeling, and maybe is fearful of falling back into a relationship that she feels is doomed to failure. She’s made it perfectly clear that her heart is set on the armed forces, and doesn’t feel like she can commit to a relationship if she does go down that path. The thing is I understand this. I just need the opportunity to tell her that I still care but know that the timing isn’t right for a committed relationship. However that doesn’t have to stop us from being able to do things together and being there for each other.

    So am I right or am I still living in hope? I suppose the proof is in her actions. If I do meet her again, I think that’s the time to be totally honest with her and let her tell me what’s going on in her head.

     

     

    #238517

    Feathering my nest
    Participant

    Sounds like she likes you a lot but she’s tied up with her exam stuff at the moment.

    The best relationships take time to develop. Keep going. 🙂

    #238725

    anita
    Participant

    Dear C:

    Congratulations for the check up going without incident and for losing weight and  looking/ feeling better.

    The meeting with her reads positive and pleasant, good thing. “am I right or am I still living in hope?”-

    If it is a matter of timing on her end, then it is not wrong to tell her that you”still care but know that the timing isn’t right for a committed relationship. However that doesn’t have to stop us from being able to do things together and  being there for each other”.

    Ask her perhaps if she thinks it may be a matter of timing for her?

    anita

     

    #273891

    C
    Participant

    Hi guys, I hope 2019 is treating you all well and Christmas wasn’t too damaging to the waistlines, I know mine was!

    Sorry for not updating but things haven’t really progressed all that much on my end, although there have been some developments for her. So 2 weeks after the meeting I asked to set a date to meet because with Christmas and new year, it was going to be hard to do something spontaneously. To which she said with her exams and work related Christmas parties, it was looking like after Christmas than before. Something I  appreciated. We continued to talk and made sure to send her a good luck message in the morning before her exam, to which she rang me up as soon as she’d finished to let me know she’d passed.

    Things continued on as usual, I sent her a Christmas card and my mum sent her a message on Christmas eve wishing her and her family a great Christmas (she asked to see my mum last time we met, maybe to gauge her attitude to her, so I thought it was good to show there wasn’t any bad blood) and she replied in kind. Then on Christmas, after I sent her a Christmas message, she replied that hers had started terribly. I of course asked why, and she copied a long message she had obviously written to someone or multiple people. Basically saying her sister had been kicked out of the house after having a massive ‘fight’ with her mum on Christmas eve. I then asked if she wanted me to ring, and she then rang me up.

    The conversation basically outlined that her mum had been making them do all the work for Christmas, and that her mum felt they weren’t acting like a family. She gave an example and said after her exam she went out to celebrate with a guy from work, and her mum thought she should have celebrated with her family.  She then quickly clarified with me that she ‘thinks he’s gay’ and that he’s been dropping her off at her house… I didn’t dwell on it at the time because I wanted to be there for her. I don’t know what to make of that, but it does sound quite friendly.

    I continued to support her and ask her how things were for the next few weeks. She thanked me for my continued support and we kept chatting. So this week I rang her up, because I wanted to see how she was (she’d been very ill for the past week and has been on antibiotics) and although she didn’t pick up she did ring me back about 45 minutes later. She sounded quite unwell but we talked about new year, how things were and she gave me some advice on the military and my application. Towards the end I said ‘I know you’re busy with exams, but even if you’re only free in the week, it would be great to see you again.’. To which she replied ‘yeah I’ll let you know when I’m free’.

    Honestly I’m feeling a little frustrated, because I still haven’t been able to wrestle back some control over our relationship, and the next possible time I’m in the area is when I have my next scan. Which is 5 weeks away. I’m not sure what to do, on the one hand I could just call her up and have the conversation with her. However I personally feel its something you should do face-to-face. With that being said I could wait another 5 weeks and she could blow me off at the last minute…. and if I’m being truthful 5 more weeks isn’t a short amount of time. Yes she’s got exams, yes she’s got responsibilities and needs time to do things for her but I don’t think I’m as important to her as she is to me and maybe it’s time for me to be a little more selfish….

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    #273905

    anita
    Participant

    Dear C:

    “Yes she’s got exams, yes she’s got responsibilities”, I agree. But she also has a crazy making mother that drains her and is keeping  her sick.

    Her mother participated (if not initiated) a massive fight with her daughter on Christmas eve, kicking her own daughter out of the house (“her sister had been kicked  out of the house after having  a massive ‘fight’ with her mum on Christmas eve”).

    And her mother complained that “they weren’t acting like a family” while she herself kicked her own daughter out of the house on Christmas eve.

    No wonder  this woman, your friend, is so anxious, tired and  sick.

    My advice: ask her a question  or two  regarding  her mother being in her  life and suggest that she doesn’t  spend time with her mother and that if she  lives with her mother, it is better that she found another place  to live.

    If she  does,  then maybe she will have  the  presence  of mind to spend time  with you and to have a semblance  of a relationship with you.

    anita

    #273907

    C
    Participant

    Thanks for that, I hadn’t thought of it in that way. I got too fixated on this new guy.

    You’re absolutely right, she has. When we spoke on Christmas she said she was planning to move out, however there are issues. One her mother doesn’t work, two her 10 year old brother would be without a functioning parent figure in their life and three she still has to pay her mothers bills (with the constant and very real threat of her being put into more financial difficulty thanks to her mum). She’s on good money but it’s spent as soon as she has it….

    This week I asked her how things were and it seems everything has been brushed under the carpet. Her sister was allowed back into the house but no conversation about what happened has been had. I didn’t press too much, as I felt she didn’t want to talk about it, but I said I think her mum clearly isn’t coping and needs to speak to someone. There’s cultural barriers as they’re African, so maybe it’s more complicated in terms of how these sorts of things get sorted. As you can imagine it’s put me in an emotionally difficult spot. I want to help and support her in whatever way I can, but I know there’s not a lot I can do as an outsider and ‘friend’. I stupidly bought her and her brother Christmas presents, I’ve since returned them because too much time has now passed since Christmas and I thought it was too much on in hindsight.

    So as of now you think I should leave her be, continue to support her in whatever way she wants and catch up in person whenever we can? I feel that is all I can do.  When we meet again I need to make a point about how I’m feeling, and know what’s going on in her head in respect to me. In the meantime I’ll continue to get on with things and see what happens next.

    #273915

    Mark
    Participant

    C,

    My approach to relationships is that if I have to “fight for” a relationship then it’s not worth it.  I believe it has to be mutual.  I am not one to try to convince someone to make the effort, to make the priority, to heal enough to want to have a relationship with me.  If that is the case then she is not ready.   Make sense.

    Live your life.  Be that distant friend who offers an occasional friendly word of support but don’t put yourself out to be emotionally vulnerable. Move on.

    Mark

    #273953

    anita
    Participant

    Dear C:

    A  summary of what you shared so far regarding this woman and  the relationship with her: you started talking  with her  Dec 2017 and you liked her  very much, had three dates, then a  total of eight  weeks of doing “all the things  couples do”, plus she invited you to a number of family events. Following those first two months she started an intense four month study for two  exams, in addition  to her full time job.

    These are the things she told you over time: “maybe we aren’t sexually compatible”, that “she wanted a ‘non-sexual relationship, saying  she wanted to be closer to god”, that she was not breaking  up with you (an answer to your question if she  was), that “she was dealing with a number of family issues, mainly that her mother  was getting her into financial trouble”, that “she felt  bad  and wanted to do things with (you) once the exams were  over”, that she “also felt she was stringing (you) along”, “if  only you were as good at  keeping a girlfriend”. that she “had been treating (you) pretty poorly, but she didn’t feel like she could be in a relationship  right now that “she’ll think some more”, that “she’s been fighting a CCJ claim(a county court order to  repay money one owes to a creditor) that her mother, yet again, has got her into”, later,  that  your “futures aren’t compatible”, that she “was sorry and  still cares about (you)”.

    After  all that  the two of you had sex again. You wrote in  September: “I honestly feel like she’s depressed.  She texted me out of the blue  once that she’d taken a day off work and was sitting in  her room drinking wine… if I’m honest I’m a little worried about  her”.

    After a long time of not meeting, and after you lost  a significant amount of weight, you met: “I’d changed so much she walked right past me! She was genuinely shocked, and the first thing she did was compliment me on how much weight I lost, and I was looking great. You had a nice dinner  and she was “really open and  positive”. She told you that “she just didn’t have time for a relationship” After that date, or meeting, she texted you that you should “most definitely” “do it again soon”, with a  love heart at the end  of the text. But later she didn’t  take  you on an invitation to get together for a drink.

    In  your first 2019 post you wrote that she told you that her Christmas had started terribly, that “her sister had  been kicked out of  the  house after having a massive ‘fight’ with her  mum on Christmas eve”, that “her  mum felt  they weren’t  acting like a family”, that “after her exam she went out  to celebrate with a guy from work, and  her  mum thought she should have celebrated with her  family”.

    She then added that she thinks the guy she celebrated with is gay. In your most recent post you added the following information: “When we spoke on  Christmas she said she was planning to move out, however there are  issues. One her mother doesn’t work, two her 10 year old brother would be without a functioning parent figure in their life and three she still has to pay her mother’s bills (with the constant and very real threat  of her being put into more financial difficulty thanks to  her mum). She’s on good money but it’s spent as soon  as she has it”

    In your recent communication with her, “it seems everything has been brushed under the  carpet. Her  sister was allowed back  into the house but no conversation about what happened has been had”.

    My input: your friend is the only one providing income in her family, mother and young brother (I am not sure about  her sister), yet it is her mother who has the control  over that money, she spends it  the way she wants to  and she overspends it,  bringing about multiple orders from the court to repay unpaid debts.

    Your friend is the  only “functioning parent figure” to her younger brother and she is afraid to leave him alone  with her mother. Her mother is aggressive toward her children, ruling them with power, with aggression,  scaring them into submission any way she  can, all  means justify her end: to use her children and whatever  money they can bring in.

    A woman in  this situation cannot  possibly be available to a healthy relationship with a man. At best she will escape her mother by going out with this or that guy. Or at times when she feels better,  calmer, she  can be very pleasant and engaging, but soon enough the great distress of being owned,  practically, by an aggressive woman takes its toll on her. Her changing statements to you indicate her distress at home. She can hardly keep her sanity.

    She needs to be free of  her mother, not  owned by her. All this time you’ve been trying  to have a relationship with a woman who is not a free person, a woman owned, used  and abused by her own mother on a  daily  basis with no end in  sight, no hope for her freedom.

    If  you can’t help her free  herself from her mother, you can’t  help her at  all. If you married her while  she is practically  owned by her mother, you too will be  owned by her mother, and the money bring in, if you were married to your friend, will be used by her mother as well.

    anita

     

     

    #276983

    C
    Participant

    Thanks Anita, I think you are right. She isn’t available for a lasting relationship, and it’s something I’m slowly coming to terms with. I still care about her a lot, and even love her, but she’s not willing to try with me. I asked if she wanted to see a movie this weekend but she turned me down because she has a ‘cold’ and isn’t wanting to go out until she finishes her exams. She is however back on dating apps as I saw her appear on my dating stream tonight… naturally I didn’t like or dislike.

    I can only imagine she’s not wanting to go out with me because she doesn’t want to try and fix things. Her dreams and aspirations of joining the armed forces are possible, but with the situation at home, not practical. I don’t know what’s going on in her head but perhaps she’s going back to dating for the escapism you were talking about Anita, or maybe she’s open to a relationship because she realises that she is trapped at home for the foreseeable future? What I don’t understand is why she doesn’t want to try and fix things between us? She likes me, knows she played a major part in us not working (exams and outside pressure) and understands I truly care about her. Maybe she thinks I’ve moved on, but I’ve asked to meet, since our last meeting, 5-6 times in the past 6 weeks. Surely she knows I’m still interested?

    I said that my next scan is in February, ‘so maybe we can see each other then’. She’s seen it but hasn’t responded to it. It’ll be interesting to see what, if anything, she says to that.

    At this stage I just want to say my peace, unload these heavy emotions I feel and take back some control. So should I wait a little over 2 weeks for a possible meeting or should I have this conversation over the phone?

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