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February 19, 2016 at 9:28 pm #96551
dfhParticipantWhat I mean by “who I am” is that I have self-hatred and women don’t seem to be attracted to me. They look at me in pity I’m guessing. I’m in my 30s and have had a total of 2 relationships. One lasted a week, and the other lasted around a year with the girl going off the deep end a few times because she was mentally unstable and emotionally unavailable and I was trying to make it work and keep it going. Or, at least it felt that way. Ultimately she left me for a guy that fixed her phone while we were still together and that pretty much ended that. You see, I become their friend and that’s all they see. They don’t see anything else in me. I’m friend material. Nothing more. Even though I want more. I want a family. I’ve been told to meet people. I meet them and they either move, disappear, are not interested, or want to just be friends. I can’t win. So that’s what I mean as “I am me” I personally feel pathetic and worthless. Part of having a purpose in my mind is the ability and option to having children and a wife. This means at this point in time I have no purpose on this Earth since I can’t seem to find the woman that will accept me for me. I feel I’m a good person, I try to do the right things, I am considerate for others. But these qualities you find in friends, not lovers, or husbands or anything according to the women I’ve crossed paths with. They want the confidence, some want the physique, others want money. I have none of that. All I have is my integrity, my patience, and my heart to give. I don’t see any woman wanting that.
I don’t feel casual sex is right. That’s not from a religion or faith or anything like that, it is how I feel about it in my gut. So I don’t do it, nor will I want it. I don’t feel being intimate with someone is the same as going to the movies, but to me, the society we are in at the moment feels this way about sex. It’s lost its intimacy.
I want a relationship, pure and simple. With a woman that understands that concept fully and would want a one as well. So far she isn’t anywhere near me.February 19, 2016 at 9:42 pm #96553dfhParticipantErisa – I understand the concept you mentioned and it seems like a good idea to think about when looking at relationships in general. I talked with this girl tonight and she mentioned that she feels that I think that I want her to fix my problems, and I don’t feel that’s the way I think. She does have other things going on, and a lot of stress to deal with. She’s having other people bring their problems to her as well and it seems like it’s overwhelming her and she’s taking it out on me because I’m the one that she seems to be focusing on right now because of my suicidal thoughts.
I don’t feel i’ve been too demanding of her. and I don’t consider me talking to her as a friend as such. Nor do I feel her venting to me about her stuff seems too demanding either. But she made it clear tonight that she seems frustrated with me because I won’t help myself.
We can’t help others help themselves if they don’t want to be helped. It’s not that I don’t want to help myself, its that I don’t feel I can. I feel i’m out of options and so ending it all in theory, will make all this pain i’m causing to the few people I have left, go away. She feels that I’m not understanding how much pain i’m causing her or others by talking about suicide. I do understand it. And I do care. But I don’t think they see my view of it. And that’s where the impasse is in this situation. And unfortunately she’s pushing herself away so that she doesn’t have to deal with it, which then causes me to feel even worse because i’ve made one more person go out of my life with how I talk.
It’s not the first person to distance themselves from my because of my self-hatred. It makes a lot of people uncomfortable, I get it. And I don’t know how to not talk about it and not hurt myself or others at the same time.February 20, 2016 at 8:32 am #96560
AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
Self hatred, you mentioned it twice. That is a very distressing way to live life, to hate oneself. Somehow it happened that when you were a child, things happened, bad things happened to you through no fault of your own but (as children naturally do), you took responsibility for those things, believing you caused them to happen or should have prevented them from happening. Children do that all the time. I did. And self hate starts and like poison, it poisons and infects every part of the self hater’s life.
I believe that I understand self hatred. And I see that you do hate yourself. You take some comfort in your honesty and having good values such as not seeing sex as a casual thing. Yet, this comfort is not good enough to neutralize the self hatred.
This self hatred is something that can be worked on, in good psychotherapy, that would be best. In good psychotherapy, with the trust in the relationship with the therapist who is empathetic and respectful to you, you get to examine those core beliefs about who you are and change those, over time. it is possible.
I know that you were born all good, loving and lovable, as worthy as anyone out there, as worthy as me and as any person. I know it. Can you imagine the moment you actually believe it, see it with your mind and heart? Hard to believe, isn’t it? And that is what it is about, believing.
Would you like to share, if you can, if it is not too distressing, about your childhood, how it happened that you took on the belief that you caused bad things happening (or good things not happening) because there was something…wrong with you?
anita
February 20, 2016 at 9:37 am #96566dfhParticipantI won’t go into detail about my childhood even though I do agree with you in the general sense that your upbringing does affect how you perceive the world when you get older. I do however believe that regardless of an upbringing a person’s will can get them as far as they want to go in life and the possibilities are endless. This is one of many reasons why I refuse medication as treatment to my depression. I feel I can fight it myself and overcome it through my own will. So far it hasn’t worked but I also haven’t succumb to following through with my thoughts of suicide, either.
I have tried psychotherapy but for the few therapists I went to, it seemed like they wanted to take my money and that’s about it. They didn’t try to offer advice or anything like that, they just sat and listened to me ramble on about my problems. Right now I can’t afford to pay since I have no insurance and my income is not enough.
In business, when you don’t know the market and you open up a new store or service, the chances of failure are high. And, if there’s not the market for that particular product or service then most times the business fails, simply because no one wants the thing that you’re trying to provide to them. But to have a business fail and then try again in the same market for the same thing won’t give you a different result. This is how I see myself in the dating world. No one wants what I have or who I am. There’s no sense in continue to try when I know failure is the result. 100% of the women i’ve been interested in all considered me just a friend. Nothing more. This is my problem. And you’d think that trying a different way to go about it would work, it doesn’t. I’m not relationship material, but yet I have good qualities. And that to me is puzzling. If i’m such a nice guy with all these qualities, then how is it no woman wants me? No one can answer that. And neither can I.
February 20, 2016 at 10:28 am #96573AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
I am intrigued by my desire to answer the question you asked in the last two lines. I don’t have an answer, but I am intrigued at the possibility of giving you an answer or a list of possible answers later on in this post.
My experience with psychiatric drugs, 17 years, was negative: there was not only no improvement in my life circumstances and mental health but there was a worsening in both.
My experience with psychotherapists was that I was not helped by any until I found my first good psychotherapist at the tender age of 50. The first therapist I saw was when I was in my early twenties, just a few times. I talked and he said not a single word, and no facial expression either. The one I saw at 50- he gave me so much time every session. Not 50 minutes but a couple or more hours, for no extra charge, simply because he did not have another client waiting and … he cared. The first session was free. And then all correspondence between sessions, telephone, email- no extra charge. He was really motivated. He gave me homework every session and checked it the next or during the between sessions communication. What a therapist: hard working, dedicated, caring!
You wrote: “regardless of an upbringing a person’s will can get them as far as they want to go in life and the possibilities are endless” What is missing in this sentence so to make it believable to me is Following adequate healing… a person’s will can get them to experience more and more of life. When you are injured in childhood, that injury is a physical part of your brain (connections made)and that injury needs to be adequately healed.
Then you wrote: “If i’m such a nice guy with all these qualities, then how is it no woman wants me? No one can answer that. And neither can I.”
My answer as it comes to mind: if you are such a nice guy who hates himself, you are not such a nice guy to yourself, are you?
You are honest and carry good values, but you are not a nice guy. If you are not nice to yourself…
anita
February 20, 2016 at 11:20 am #96576dfhParticipantI agree. I’m not a nice person to myself. My attempts at changing haven’t worked for me. And yet, I am still floating in life. No goals, no ambitions, nothing. I’ve been told I have a lot to live for, and a lot to be thankful for and be proud about. But I don’t see it. Yes, I have material things and I’ve had success like getting a degree, buying a house, paying of a vehicle. None of those matter to me. They’re not important. I’d rather be without the material possessions but have a companion with me to share life’s journey. That to me is more important.
I took antidepressants for about two weeks when I was in high school and I couldn’t stay awake at school. I felt my education was more important than feeling happier. You can still be mad at school as long as you get passing grades was my thought process. I’ve had friends that have been on them for years and it’s affected them mentally. I don’t feel they work for me, but for some people in certain circumstances they probably do.
February 20, 2016 at 11:57 am #96578AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
That which you seek, then, “peace of mind” (title of your thread) and companionship, a loving relationship with a woman is really, in real life, a possibility for you. If you become nice to yourself.
You wrote: “I agree. I’m not a nice person to myself.” Think about this sentence it: look at it as if you are thinking about it for the first time.
And then think, if you will, how can you possibly have peace of mind, and how can you possibly enjoy life, experience life if you hate yourself? Hate is a strong emotion, it is desiring bad things to happen to the one you hate…way worse than just not being nice to yourself.
How can you possibly….? You can buy a house, as you have. You can earn an academic degree, as you have. You can do those two things. But peace of mind… love… those require …
What do these things require?
Be back in a few hours. Take care!
anita
February 20, 2016 at 11:20 pm #96616dfhParticipantThey both require acceptance. But love requires acceptance from both parties. And that’s where the problem comes into play. Even if I cared about myself, I highly doubt that it would change a woman’s view about me. I’m friend material and that’s it. I’m not deserving of a relationship, nor of children, or any type of happiness that comes along with having a family. I got my degree so I would have a chance at having a career and be financially stable when my kids are finally born. I bought my house in order to invest in it and then sell, and use the money from selling to buy a bigger house…for a family. This was my plan. My goals. It all involves having a family, which requires a relationship to begin with. And that’s what I don’t have and can’t seem to get. It drives me nuts that I can try different ways and they all haven’t worked for me. I want to love someone. Not myself. I’m helpless in the sense that i’m beyond help so i’ve given up on me. I can’t be fixed. I’m broken beyond repair. People see me differently but I see a broken person. And apparently I attach to people too much and then make them mad with my stupid thoughts and then they disappear out of my life and i’m left alone once again to deal with my bullcrap myself, once again. This is what I meant as she being my last friend because I will disappear from everyone and everything. I just have to finish up some stuff then i’ll be gone out of everyone’s life so they can’t be mad at me anymore and hear my nonsense.
February 21, 2016 at 12:13 am #96619AnonymousInactiveDfh,
Your life is valuable to people who love you, even if you truly believe only 1 person loves you. You are most certainly deserving of a relationship, to build your own family and to have the partner that you want. Loving yourself definitely helps but that doesn’t mean love won’t sneak up on you when you least expect it too. Who knows, your partner may already be in your life in some form or another and then universe keeps reminding you in ways you may not even realize, that it’s the partner you’re meant to be with and marry some day. At times we are stubborn and ignore the signs, as we allow fear to control our lives, instead of love. Also, you don’t necessarily need to own a home to raise a family and maybe the partner/person you’re meant to be with may end up owning a home already. You just never know in life.
Often times, people don’t come into our lives to fix us but just to love us and connect with us. If it just so happens that they unknowingly fix us or heal us with their love and compatibility then great. But I believe not everyone goes into relationships saying to themselves ‘I am going to fix my partner’. But at times, maybe the bond and the connection itself is healing to both parties, unknowingly. As we all know that LOVE is the most powerful emotion in this world and it has done a lot of miraculous healing to many.
You may feel broken or irreparable but to others you are not. You are a loved and valuable soul on this earth.
Don’t give up.. Try creating a vision board sometime soon about all the things you want in life, I’ve been doing my own vision board for the past 5 years and I will personally say it has worked for me and many other from around the world! 🙂
Sending you lots of positivity, love and light.
M.
February 21, 2016 at 7:53 am #96640AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
You are in pain and that is obvious. I am so sorry you are in the pain that you are. I wish you weren’t. And I wish that one day, you will not be suffering as you are now and have been for so long.
There are certain beliefs you hold about yourself:
1. “I’m friend material and that’s it.”
2. “I’m not deserving of a relationship, nor of children, or any type of happiness that comes along with having a family.”
Do you know people who believe things that you know are not true, not possible? Do you know of people that were willing to sacrifice their lives for something they believed in that was obviously not true? For example some cult members in the news… or people in your life that strongly believe in what is not true and it is clearly not true?
Number 1 and 2 are your beliefs. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is such where the practice is to examine one’s beliefs for the truth in those. One of the exercises is to state a belief and present a “prosecution argument” and a “defense argument”, like in a courtroom. In the defense argument you do your best to give all the evidence why your belief is true.
If you would like to do this exercise here, on this thread, for any of your beliefs, let’s say #2, we can do it right here: give your defense of it argument (you already did… re-state it and add to it if you want, give it the best defense, like a good defense attorney would. I will look at your arguments with an open mind, like a member of the jury, being open to the possibility that your belief is correct. My job as a jury member will be not to convince you that your belief is wrong, but to suspend that belief and be open minded that indeed, the belief may be correct.
Would you like to do this exercise regarding belief number 2 (or another belief)?
anita
February 21, 2016 at 10:32 am #96661dfhParticipantI have heard about people believing in something that others may feel are not true. But I feel that belief is a personal belief in itself. If you hold it true to your heart, it is very difficult and almost impossible to change the mind once that has happened. I didn’t say impossible-just very difficult.
I don’t feel like i’m deserving of any happiness, whether it be getting a life that I feel I deserve or have earned/made, or to the family i’ve always wanted. I don’t have hobbies, I don’t watch TV, I don’t go out and experience life. I work 3 jobs and I sit at home looking stuff up online to pass the time. I have intelligence, sure, but talking about certain things isn’t interesting to people, or they lose interest because I go into too much detail about it. I can use small talk, but then what? I don’t know the latest TV show that everyone is watching or the new movie that’s coming out. I don’t know the football score or who’s going to be drafted for next season. I haven’t been to the lake or hung out at a party with friends. I’m not passionate about much and I don’t have kids. I can’t tell you what my 3 year old did the other day that made me laugh. I have no smooth talk to get a woman in bed, I can’t express my feelings well in person and I’m shy. I like to listen more than talk and being around a lot of people drains my energy to the point where I want to leave shortly after getting there. I don’t play sports or have graduated from the local high school. If I explain where I’ve lived and where i’m from it takes more than just a sentence. It’s closer to an essay and people lose interest. They don’t want to hear about my problems. But I want to hear theirs so I can help.
This is why i’m not deserving. I’m not interesting. I don’t have the attention of others.
February 21, 2016 at 11:29 am #96667dfhParticipantElleTinker700 – Thank you for your thoughts on this. I do understand that sometimes love is right under our nose. There is a woman in my life that I feel like that towards before this other girl came around, but again, she doesn’t know it, nor will I tell her. I do care about her and we’ve known each other for over half our lives so it’s a strong friendship for sure.
I agree with you, I don’t think anyone goes into a relationship with the intention of taking on the others’ problems, but in a partnership I believe that does end up happening because the two help each other out. The only exception to that is when one is relying on the other to fix them. That usually results in a negative experience for them.
February 21, 2016 at 2:35 pm #96679AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
Yes, I agree: you are an intelligent man. There is no lack there. Like you, I don’t have hobbies. I don’t know anything about sports, small talk and I have no children to talk about. But I am curious about people and I am passionate about learning about myself and about other people. The more I learn about myself, the more I know about people and the other way around. This is where my curiosity is. Small talk? I am lost there. Hobbies? None. TV: none. Popular culture, politics, trivia: very little to none.
And that is okay with me because I have a passion, I have something, one thing I am curious about and that is enough.
Your post and my response to it here reminds me of my favorite poem. It is called Hokusai Says, by Roger Keyes. It says:
“It doesn’t matter if you draw, or write books.
It doesn’t matter if you saw wood, or catch fish.
it doesn’t matter if you sit at home
and stare at the ants on your verandah or the shadows of the trees
and grasses in your garden.It matters that you care.
It matters that you feel.
It matters that you notice.
it matters that life lives through you..”.. It is as if it is not important what you have to offer others. What is important is that you are open to what life has to offer you. I mean, when you stop standing in your own way and open up to learning…
anita
February 22, 2016 at 12:29 am #96725dfhParticipantI’ve spent the last several years finding out about who I am because I have been isolated. It was only a year ago that this girl came into my life and started talking to me. Before that, I was still depressed, but I was used to it even though I hated it but didn’t do much about it. This is because I’m so tired of being used for my kindness or just treated unfairly. It’s easier to not have friends if all your friends give you a negative experience.
I do stand in my own way, that I admit. But I feel I do it for a reason, mainly so I don’t get hurt or disappointed. My life has been full of disappointments, some my own fault and some the people that have been in my life. I’ve been dealt a bad hand at life and I’m trying to handle it how I know how. That’s not to say that my own way of dealing with things is the best option out there, it’s not. But It’s all I know for now.
I have been open to learning and this website has given me a different perspective on a few topics just from reading the articles and forum subjects. I’m stubborn and it is very hard to change my mind once I’ve made my mind up. That’s not to say i’m not open to change; I am, I just find it difficult to do.
February 22, 2016 at 7:29 am #96746AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
I think I understand. I observed not long ago how children play. I sat in a playroom in a market and watched young children play. There were those puzzles, just some shapes cut off from a board and the game is to fit the parts cut off into the board. The child holds a shape, let’s say a duck, and looks at the board to where it fits, tries here and there and when he finally finds where it fits, bingo! We need to fit things, fit this and that and make sense of things so to have a sense of security and comfort. So when you experiences, dfh, so much heartache and disappointments in your life in the context of relationships, particularly romantic relationships, your natural need is to FIT this fact (puzzle shape, part) with the board (your brain, beliefs about life and your place in it). So your fit is “I don’t deserve a romantic relationship, and I give up. It is just not something that is possible for me”
And there is comfort in such “fitting”- no need to struggle and be distressed anymore because it fits, it makes sense now.
The learning part in the poem I quoted is about questioning these fittings. But there is distress in such questioning. And you had enough distress.
What do you think my analogy?
anita
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