Physically and mentally exhausted.

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This topic has 24 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 6 months ago by Lori.

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October 20, 2015 at 12:34 pm #85726

jock
Participant

(sorry to hijack thread)
anita
Usually your replies are of such a high standard . You put so much time and effort into careful and considered responses. But occasionally you are misguided. You are human like the rest of us, after all.I don’t care too much if people don’t take me seriously here. I can laugh at myself. I can give advice about someone’s situation , but honestly the expert is really the one asking for help, as they know the real context.
As I read a lot of replies here, I see that the person helping, responding is really helping themselves. Clarifying their own thoughts about an issue in their own mind. Self-expression. Writing skills. We are trying to get better and better at communicating what we know, what we feel, how we view the world. At worst people are convinced their advice is absolutely the one and only course of action. That is delusional, I’m afraid.
I think Inky was justified in saying something here, due to the seriousness of the topic. Possibly her post was tactless, I’m not sure.

October 20, 2015 at 12:40 pm #85727

Inky
Participant

Hi Anita,

I didn’t report you for inappropriate content. I only do that for spammers. But if someone suggests to me I abort or adopt, I might! If anyone reported you, it was the Original Poster!!

Dear One, you HAVE to watch not only what you say, but how you say it!

If you’re offended by us disagreeing with you, then imagine how Shun feels by what you wrote!!

This is a Grown Woman you are speaking about and to ~ not a future inadequate parent contributing to an epidemic worldwide problem. I’m assuming that if she has a dwelling place, money, a support system, and is of sound mind ~ that she has what it takes.

If a husband dies or divorces the wife, should then all the children be surrendered to the State or better off not being born? Not at all! There are worse things than being born to an obviously loving mother surrounded by family and friends who is concerned about even if her emotions affect the baby in the womb!

October 20, 2015 at 12:43 pm #85728

Inky
Participant

Hi Jack,

Yes, my post(s) was/were probably tactless.

No worries.

October 20, 2015 at 1:51 pm #85731

Anonymous
Guest

* Thank you Lori. I was moved by your empathy- you perceived my pain accurately. I gave some time to perceive the suggested tragedy you wrote that it could be to a to be mother aborting but then finding out she is a great mother (with a future child- the only way for her to find out she is a good mother…) – you mean, the woman thinking “what if” and who the fetus aborted could have been? Maybe I am not seeing what you are seeing here because I do not see an abortion as a crime or as otherwise immoral, if done safely and early enough. If you would like to explain it to me further, that pain you are referring to… To me right now it seems like a pain based on What If, what is not reality…?

Jack: Of course I am wrong sometimes- who isn’t- but I examine things now before I believe that I am wrong on any one topic. There aren’t many topics as emotionally charged as abortions, so no wonder it has triggered emotions. I am pro abortion, I do confess. If in doubt- that you can be a good enough mother- don’t get pregnant- and if you got pregnant- abort early. This is my position. As far as what you wrote here, Jack: “the expert is really the one asking for help”- re-read what you wrote here: examine it: why would The expert get the idea of asking for advice on what-to-do?

Inky: If a husband dies etc. no, the children should not be surrendered to the State- plenty of foster home horror stories. Of course not.

Inky, I enjoy your folksy style but often you over simplify issues way too much. I tend to, sometimes over elaborate, you tend to over simplify matters. We are on two end of the spectrum.

anita

October 20, 2015 at 1:55 pm #85732

Inky
Participant

Not that I meant to be tactless!!!

Hey, my parents weren’t the greatest either! Narcissistic the both of them! In fact, they really shouldn’t have had children. They were just two gorgeous young people who decided to have a family because that’s what you do! My mom was the original helicopter parent but then dropped us like hot potatoes at the stroke of eighteen. And my dad was out to lunch. Literally.

My sister and I certainly complain about our parents.

But the only perfect parents were Mary and Joseph. But only if you’re religious. And Joseph wasn’t even His dad!! See?

All we can do is be supportive, live in the Now, do our best, and hope for the best.

I apologize for any hurt I caused at my end from being truthful.

October 20, 2015 at 2:45 pm #85735
jock
Participant
As far as what you wrote here, Jack: “the expert is really the one asking for help”- re-read what you wrote here: examine it: why would The expert get the idea of asking for advice on what-to-do?

My assertion is that we are all our own best therapists. People can give us advice but it is up to us in the end. You can give me advice about my situation here, but you really don’t know the context. Anita, you are an expert on yourself, aren’t you? No one can tell you more about yourself, than you. Then our role in responding to cries for help here is to help people help themselves. Be able to access their own resources.
I see your main strength as empathy. When you respond to my post I feel listened to 100%. I feel truly validated and respected. And totally non-judgemental as well. That is an enormous counselling skill that not everyone has.
I hope it goes no further than a warning. This place would fall apart without you. You have helped a lot of people just through your attentive posts.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by jock.
October 20, 2015 at 5:05 pm #85745

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Jack:

Well, Jack, my anger at my mother does get the best of me at times. At times it blinds me although on this thread, I do not SEE my blindness yet. I may have gotten it right on this thread. I do hold mothers responsible for most of the ills in this world and I stand by this assertion. I think mothering is the most powerful job in the whole wide world. Parenting, I should say- the most powerful job in the world. I can’t stand it, can hardly endure it, when people take it lightly or when they obviously are not qualified or when they romanticize the concept instead of seeing it as the most difficult job there is for most. I go nuts, I get agitated. I get, well, passionate.

Now, to us being our own best therapists, nah, I don’t see it. Ideally, yes. Sometimes, yes. Often not. Advice is usually not effective. It is people reading advice given to others that benefit most because they are more objective than the person looking for advice, more open. So when I write here, I write to anyone who reads. What I write might be useful to someone out there.

Of course, accessing one’s own resources is key, the way, of course. Which reminds me, yesterday, thanks to you I fired Calorie Counting Caroline.

anita

October 20, 2015 at 6:08 pm #85746

Lori
Participant

Hi anita,

What I mean is that some women who do not see abortion as a crime or immoral have abortions and later regrets. This causes them much pain and suffering. I haven’t had an abortion so I can’t describe their pain firsthand, but I know women who have. I know their pain is real.

Many women are confident that when the time comes they’ll be wonderful mothers; others aren’t and have self-doubts. I can speak about the latter firsthand. That was me. During my first pregnancy, I wasn’t altogether certain that the motherly instincts I’d observed in so many other women would kick in for me. I knew I’d try my best but I definitely had some doubts. No one advised me to consider terminating the pregnancy as a result of those doubts, for which I’m grateful. I’m not advocating for women to recklessly decide to become mothers. Of course not. I’m saying that some women may doubt their parenting abilities, and they may also go through tough times like divorce, but they may still turn out to be wonderful, loving parents. It doesn’t mean they’ll parent like your mother did, and inferring that it does may be offensive to some.

Lori

October 20, 2015 at 6:27 pm #85747

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Lori:

I believe it is so, that some women who had abortions feel real pain and regret about having done so. I have no doubt their pain is real. I am familiar with my pain of course. Others are not familiar with mine. I can speak only of my own pain and what I learned from it. A woman who knows the pain of having had an abortion she regrets can speak of her pain and what she learned from it. Pain is pain and all are valid. There is a real message behind each pain. Knowing my pain and what I learned from it I am very passionate about parents doing their very best at this most challenging job.

When you wrote about mothers having doubts about being good (enough) mothers, my automatic thought was that these are likely to be good mothers. It is mothers to be who have no doubts who I would be worried about. So no, I would not suggest a mother to be who has doubts should abort, no way. Having doubts is a part and parcel of being a good enough mother.

Not good-enough mothers is the norm, not the exception, unfortunately. My mother is far from being the only one. Oh, what a different world it would be if it was so. The rates of depression and anxiety are epidemic. The neuro-pathways responsible for anxiety and depression almost always have their origin in childhood. The evidence is everywhere.

I like that you opened with empathy toward me in the post before last. Empathy- your children then are fortunate to have a mother who is empathetic to them. There are mothers that are good enough (I am sure you are familiar with the term, meaning of course, no mother is perfect, good enough is good… enough.

anita

October 20, 2015 at 7:16 pm #85753

Lori
Participant

Hi again,

This is what I read a couple posts ago from you: “If in doubt- that you can be a good enough mother- don’t get pregnant- and if you got pregnant- abort early. This is my position.” That’s why I wrote what I did about self-doubt.

Now that you’ve clarified your position, I understand much better what you’re saying.

Thanks,
Lori
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