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  • #400273
    Lindsey62
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I do fully agree that the affects of bullying can last for a long time or even for ever. In the post I was responding to, I meant to suggest that sometimes situations alter so that people can move away, distance themselves, and in life this can happen naturally (people go to college, uni, get jobs etc). Over time, bullying can sometimes stop or go away.

    Each situation is so different,  and I think many of us have been bullied at some time in our lives, either by other children, or by family or other people, for example, at work. I read once about a woman who even now suffers not so much at what people did to her, but because no-one stood up for her. That post broke my heart to read, so it must be even harder for her. She is working through it and I’m so glad, because I think bullying can kill a person’s spirit over the years…

    “I will say the same thing to myself right now: I am strong, and I can do this!”

    I’m glad 🙂

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by Lindsey62.
    #400288
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lindsey62:

    Thank you for respecting my request to not comment on the self-help part of my previous post, I appreciate your respect and the optimistic, positive way with which you chose to end your reply.

    I read once about a woman who even now suffers not so much at what people did to her, but because no-one stood up for her” – in my original post on this thread I included a quote regarding the various participants in acts of bullying: the bully, the bullied, the bystanders who help the bully, the bystanders who help the bullied after the fact, away from the bully’s presence, the bystanders that passively watch and say/ do nothing…

    Of course, the admirable participants in acts of bullying the rare few who help the bullied right there and then!

    I hope that you reply to other members (it’s been very slow lately, but still)- you have a lot of good sense and kindness to contribute to others. You are welcome, of course, to start your own thread on any topic. In the next posts in this thread, I will address the reader (“Dear Reader”) because my posts will be aimed at anyone and everyone who may choose to read my posts and reply, or not.

    anita

    #400313
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Reader:

    This is my continued self-help effort using a few basic Buddhist principles. I am not requesting comments on what I am about to share. If you, dear member, would like to do your own self-help work, you are welcome to do it here on this thread, or on your own thread.

    The poem, Hokusai Says: “Hokusai says, look carefully-He says pay attention, notice– He says keep looking, stay curious– He says there is no end to seeing– … He says don’t be afraid- don’t be afraid- Look, feel, let life take you by the hand- Let life live through you.

    The abuse I suffered growing up was delivered by my mother’s hands and words: her hands, her words. Tragically, she was abused when she was growing up, but the abuse I received was not by the hands and words of those other people who abused her, but by her own hands, her own words.  This makes her responsible for what she did to me.

    Her hands, her words and the totality of her explosions of anger and histrionics destroyed the vast majority of my life. I am not getting any of that life back, the unlived life, the miserably lived life. I need to radically accept it, meaning to not want this past of mine to be any different than what it is, being that I can’t change it.

    I need to let go of attachment to the idea of having had any other kind of childhood than the one I had, and for having had a different mother than the one I had.

    I tried hard to not love her ever since I was a teenager, if not earlier. I felt aversion toward the feeling of love for her. But I have to let go of my aversion toward feeling love for her because I feel it every once in a while and I can’t help it. At the same time, I see that this love is about who I am (a loving daughter=> a loving person); it is not about who she is, or was (a loving mother). I feel love for her not because she deserves my love, but because I am a loving person.

    I accept that much of traditional society generally stands by the abusive parent and against the abused child (especially when the abused child becomes an adult… and should be “over it”), so that when I hear or read this attitude stated yet again, portraying me as a bad daughter and a bad person for having no contact with my aging mother, I expect and accept it but I am not deterred by it and I will not resume any contact with my mother.

    I accept again and again that the girl that I was- was blameless. An innocent victim, falsely accused.

    I accept that my mother’s primary role in my life was not that of a mother, but that of an Offender, a Bully, a Villain.

    I accept again, that (1) this offender of mine has her defenders, that there are people who will be motivated (if reading this post) to defend her and offend me by minimizing the harm and damage that she has caused me and/ or by accusing me of being cruel, non-forgiving, etc., and  that (2) her defenders may be (unlike my mother) nice and polite while offending me.

    I choose to not communicate with  any one of her defenders (people who know her personally and people who don’t) if they insist on continuing to defend her/ offend me.

    My whole life I wanted to help my mother because I saw her pain (she has shown it to me histrionically), I didn’t know that she has helped herself to me all these years by bullying me.

    I will develop this boldfaced sentence: patrick wanis, behavior expert phd, “Let’s talk about the top 10 primary motives for bullying:… The simplest definition of bullying is repetitively being cruel to others who are weaker…Here are 10 reasons why children bully other children:

    1. PowerThe need for power is the single most significant characteristic associated with bullying behavior. Power is the ability to influence others. The bully may feel weak and powerless at home or may simply seek power as a means to feel significant and secure.

    “2. Control: The need for control over others is closely associated with the desire for power….

    “3. Revenge: The desire for revenge or retaliation after perceiving to have been slighted or wronged…

    “4. Envy: Envy is the desire for something that someone else has often coupled with feelings of inferiority (i.e. ‘I cannot have what he has.’)…

    “8. Quiet Permission: Some bullies do it because they can. Perhaps the parents allow it; the schools allow it (teachers do nothing….

    “10. Pain and Tauma: The bully has been a victim him/herself – of trauma, harassment, abuse, humiliation or bullying at home or at school…”.

    The above is about children bullying other children, so why am I including this in regard to my adult mother having bullied me? Because her bullying was not a  mature act. She behaved like an angry child and the above listed reasons perfectly apply to my mother.

    Here is a quote from a bully (same online source): “When I finally identified a child whom I was capable of bullying, I jumped at the opportunity to release my frustration” – true to my mother.

    Back to me: this is my mother’s motivation (see how I used the present tense, “is” not was- it was unintentional. The reason: her bullying feel timeless). Her motivation was primarily to release her frustration and to enjoy the feeling of having power over me. So, you see, she helped herself to me.

    I just noticed my timeless comment in the paragraph above, it still feels like she is bullying me because the experience has a timeless feel to it. This is what anxiety is about, fear that’s there when no  longer in a circumstance of real or perceived danger.

    My mother used to accuse me of planning to hurt her feelings and then going about my alleged, non-existent elaborate plan to hurt her .At times when I proclaimed my innocence, trying to show her, to make her see that it was not true, that I didn’t at all plan to hurt her, she insisted that she was right and that I was wrong, that I planned to hurt her. She argued against me, and in so doing, justifying her bullying against me… presenting it as a self-defense of sort.

    She dismissed any and all informaton that stood in her way to bullyig me and focused on any information that she could distort into an alleged plan to hurt her. She had an idea in her mind and she built a story around her idea, refusing to listen to any ideas that will interfere with her story, twisting whatever I told her so to fit it into her story.

    What I described right above felt to me like mental rape.

    This is it for now. Again, a request to any reader who may be reading this: please do not comment on what I shared here, as this post is about self-help, meaning… me helping me. If you would like to do self-help yourself,  you are welcome to do something similar in regard to your life experience here on this thread, or on your own.

    anita

    #400320
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    Clearly you didn’t listen the first time I asked so I will ask you again.

    Please stop referring to our disagreement and making comments about it.

    #400449
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Reader:

    It was posted on my thread yesterday, right above: “Clearly you didn’t listen the first time I asked so I will ask you again” – I didn’t listen the first time, what will happen if I don’t listen a second time?

    What am I being threatened with?

    And what is it that I didn’t listen to?

    I started this School Bullying thread on May 2, nothing to do with the member who posted her implicity threatening message, threatening in tone.

    On May 13, I posted a long post in this thread, in regard to my purpose of posting here: “to process my own experience with bullying (not school bullying, but Parental Bullying). It helps me to develop my thoughts when I type them and see if I gain a deeper understanding as a result. Please feel free to read or not to read what follows. My primary intent here is to help myself; my secondary intent is to potentially help another member who may be reading this post.” On May 16, I posted the second long post, with the same stated purpose.

    In neither one of these two posts (nor anywhere else in this thread) did I mention the member Helcat. Neither did I quote her words or mention anything at all that she shared anywhere in these forums. Nothing whatsoever.

    And yet, said member chose to invade my thread with an unspecified threat, clearly evident in the tone of her short post.

    I am not addressing the member Helcat directly in this post (nor will I in the future) because I do not want to communicate with her. Seven days ago, on May 10, I posted to her in another one of my threads (a thread I started, Once a Victim- Always a Victim?): “I do not wish to hurt your feelings, I really don’t, but I don’t want to communicate with you anymore. I will not post to you following the submission of this post, whether you address me or not (please don’t). Goodbye Helcat and I wish you well!

    Following that post, she submitted FIVE posts addressed to me. Yesterday (right above) was the 5th.

    Wikipedia on cyberbullying: “Cyberbullying</b> or <b>cyberharassment is a form of bullying or harassment using electronic means. Cyberbullying and cyberharassment are also known as online bullying.  It has become increasingly common, especially among teenagers… Harmful bullying behavior can include posting rumors, threats… Bullying or harassment can be identified by repeated behavior and an intent to harm”.

    Question one may ask: why not ignore the member Helcat’s fifth post (the one right above) and stop communicating about her (and in so doing , stop communicating with her indirectly)? My answer: I intend to continue posting to other members in these forums and next time Helcat thinks that I am referring to her, she is likely to address me yet again with another threatening message. I don’t want to walk on eggshells in these forums, afraid of the next time Helcat sends me a warning, or something following a … last warning, whatever it may be.

    Thing is, My experience with Helcat is part of my total experience with people (irl and online) and I cannot pull her out of the totality of my experience.   Therefore, when I share about anything from my total experience, she is a (tiny) part of it, and it is impossible to take any part outside of the total. And so, I may think of her when I write this or that in the near future, but as long as I don’t mention her name and as long as I don’t repeat anything that she shared in the forums, she should not respond to my posts. After all, it is my right to think whatever I think and she should not harass me over what she thinks I think.

    If the member Helcat chooses to continue to harass me, I will contact the website owner and ask for a solution to the problem, may it be whatever it may be. If the harassing member stops harassing me, and no longer mentions my name, she and I can post anytime to other members, not communicating with each other or about each other.

    I was going to continue to process my experience with bullying, but will submit this post as is and see if I receive yet another threatening message, and take it from there.

    anita

     

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by anita.
    #400451
    Helcat
    Participant

    * I am aware that this is a public forum, and there is a risk of cyber bullying, as well as the risk of members replying to the original poster (me in this case) angrily, impatiently, inattentively, and/or dismissing the OP’s abilities and successes and focusing on the OP’s inabilities and failures, sometimes insisting on the latter.

    This was a reference to your comments on the thread the disagreement occurred.

    You are correct I responded to a few posts you resurrected individually. Before you asked me not to post on your threads. We were having a discussion on one thread where a disagreement of ideas occurred. You then asked me not to reply to your posts and I apologised for making you feel uncomfortable and agreed.

    You then decided to write a frankly insulting comment that you deigned I was not allowed to defend myself against. I replied to you “Please kindly do me the same kindness I gave you.@ I stated that I would reply if you posted about this again.

    You continued to post another insulting reply and I responded defending myself.

    I am asking again please stop making hurtful comments about this disagreement. I am not threatening you I am asking you.

    #400453
    anita
    Participant

    * A 6th unwanted post addressed to me is right above. How many more will there be?

    anita

    #400576
    Lindsey62
    Participant

    Everyone, I have no idea about all that is going on, but Helcat I will say that I didn’t see a reference to the conversation between yourself and Anita on this particular thread, here.

    I have to take care of my own mental health, and posted on here originally because of the poster who was being bullied by a woman and she wanted to know how to get out of that situation.

    I think it’s important to be kind. We all of us go through things, and sometimes those things are difficult. There are times in life when we need to gently say “this needs my compassion and understanding”.

    That doesn’t mean we can’t be honest or say what we think, but the moment must always be chosen with thought and a desire to enrich the world generally. These are just my thoughts. I will probably bow out of this thread now. I wish everyone well, please take care  🙂

    #400578
    Lindsey62
    Participant

    I can’t seem to edit this morning! Helcat, I meant to say, when people are hurting badly, struggling and going through a learning and evolving process, something may be said that’s interpreted as one thing, when in fact it is more about defending. Learning wisdom can also involve (and this is a poor descriptive term, I can’t find another one just now!) being stronger until the ease of being more relaxed is learnt by the soul.
    Rather than being defensive, both souls could be kind.

    #400580
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lindsey62:

    Thank you for the two posts above, I appreciate them. I want to take a few hours this morning to figure out what objectively happened between me and the other member in the context of three of my threads, two from 2015 and this current one (May 2022). I know that my feelings got very hurt and I couldn’t see much through the hurt. It hurt so much that I felt pain in my chest last night, don’t remember feeling that for the longest time, for years maybe.

    I think that I feel better this morning and that I can take an objective, patient look at what happened. I know that the other member is following my posts, particularly in the three threads I mentioned, and I want to reassure her that when I post next, I will be kind, like you, Lindsey62 suggested in your last sentence, “both souls could be kind“.

    anita

    #400599
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Helcat:

    I apologize for expressing anger at you harshly and indirectly. I felt too hurt and too threatened to (1) be aware of my feelings,  and (2) to express my feelings clearly and directly.

    In this post, I will do what I can to correct these two failings.

    When I activated my three dormant threads from 2015, bringing them to the top of lists of topics, I took a risk: in these threads, I expressed my weaknesses and I know that there are people who… what’s the word… people who feast on other people’s weaknesses, people who get excited about using weaknesses so to hurt the weak.

    I feared the above because my mother feasted on my weaknesses; she got excited when spotting an opportunity to shame and humiliate me.

    My original post on the Attacked- thread was on Nov 13, 2015. I wrote there: “I had a short, split of a moment memory this very morning of how it felt. How it felt when I was attacked decades ago, as a child, by my own mother. How it felt: frozen, not moving, not breathing, not thinking” –

    – a huge part of her attacks against me was about thoroughly shaming me, done privately and in public. She had gone on and on shaming me, on and on… and on and on… and on…  endlessly, on many occasions. She didn’t say one sentence to shame me, she vocalized a whole essay on each occasion: shaming me in any which way and in every way that crossed her mind, looking for words that would hurt me more. At each shaming occasion, she reiterated all her evidence in regard my  alleged defectiveness and inferiority, retelling all past incidents that are proof of my (alleged) severe, inexcusable and unforgivable defectiveness and inferiority.

    Each shaming occasion did not end before she became physically exhausted. Hitting me across the face and elsewhere with her hands and kicking my body with her feet were part of her physical exhaustion.

    Being shamed so extensively created such emotional/ physical pain in me… It is that pain that I felt last night, lying in bed, going over our recent communication, a pain across my chest, a throbbing pain.

    In my communication with members, if I express a weakness (anxiety, emotional trouble), I tend to misinterpret members’ well-meaning expressions as shaming. For example, a member’s “I am sorry” response tends to make me feel bad because I read the message as: poor you! , with a degrading tone to it, as in pity one expresses to a person he/ she considers defective and inferior.

    I am aware of this tendency and talk sense to myself when it happens, re-interpreting the expression when I see no ill-will on the part of the member.

    Looking back at the three reactivated threads, the only objectively offensive replies i received from you were to my update on the thread Attacked-.

    In that update ten days ago,  I shared with pride (not pride as a sin, but pride as the opposite of shame, pride as in self-esteem and self-respect) that growing up, I developed a variety of disorders (Tourettes, OCD, Major Depression, an Eating Disorder, and a Personality Disorder), but after much work- work that includes daily posting in these forums for over 7 years- of the disorders I listed, most “are pretty much resolved, and most of the distress in regard to the tics (as well as the frequency and severity of the tics) is gone, all as a result of my intensive healing since 2011“.

    Do you now see the pride in the words above?

    In your first reply to the above, you mentioned nothing about my healing, and the incredible resolution of the disorders with which I was diagnosed, disorders (other than Tourettes) that I no longer suffer from. All you focused on was the anxiety that I still suffer from.

    In my reply to your discouraging post, I repeated what you missed: “my anxiety levels used to be very high for decades; much lower now” and “I feel significantly less anxious on a regular basis than I used to“.

    In your next post, you challenged me on what I wrote right above, arguing (as I am typing this, I notice increased tics, tourett’s tics…  this is stressful for me), saying, paraphrased: no, your anxiety did not significantly lessen, it is still severe!

    In a 3rd or 4th reply, you wrote: “It is however important to acknowledge your anxiety since you have difficulty with daily living activities”-

    -as if I didn’t acknowledge that I still suffer from anxiety. I acknowledged it plenty in my updat on May 10, plenty. It’s just that I focused on another kind of pleny, the plenty of healing and success!!!

    I want my healing acknowledged, even praised! I don’t want my sickness to be the focus (plus, in none of my posts on that thread, did I ask members for advice or for help).

    I don’t want to continue to go over this communication as this tic in my neck is troubling me. So, I will take a moment to calm down and close this post:

    The good news is that you are not my mother. If you were my mother, you would next take every opportunity to tear me apart, to shame and humiliate me. You would proceed to tell me again and again how wrong I am, etc.

    Earlier, my emotions were intense and I distortedly projected her into you and for that – I apologize.

    Your replies to members (and in the past, your replies to me), are empathetic and kind. So, I am glad you are here in these forums and I hope that you continue to post for as long as you would like to. I learned from our exchange. In my replies to members since our exchange- I focus on a member’s abilities and successes more than before, and I am careful, more than before, to not focus on a member’s inablilities and failures.

    On the other hand, I am still angry at you, angry for dismissing my abilities and successes and focusing on my inabilities and failures, and then proceeding to agrue… (another thing I learned from our exchange: do not agrue against a member!)

    I see the words above, that Lindsey62 wrote: “both souls could be kind“- okay, here it goes:

    Dear Helcat: I am assuming you were trying to help me, not to hurt me and I appreciate your intent. I appreciate all your previous positive replies to me and to other members.  I forgive you for your imperfections and I acknowledge and apologize for mine.

    If I had my wish come true, in regard to our communication, it would be that if you choose to reply to this post, that you will not continue to agrue. I wish that you’d accept that there is something for you to learn as a result of our exchange, and that as a result of this learning, you will do a good job next time when you reply to a member who is proud of his/ her healing and progress.

    I intend to do a better job at it myself. I apologize and regret any and all distress and discomfort that you experienced recently, as a result of our exchange. I do not (!) want this  distressing experience, neither yours nor mine,  to repeat in these forums.

    anita

     

    #400653
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    Thank you, your apology is much appreciated. I too apologise for the pain that the discussion brought.

    I regret that I was not more sensitive during that communication. I will do my best to be mindful in the future. I also don’t like a lack of positive feedback when I am feeling vulnerable.

    I completely forgot that you don’t like the words I’m sorry because I was feeling upset and angry myself. Personally, I don’t pity people as a general rule. I think that involves looking down on people and imagining them as small and helpless. I wouldn’t do that to anyone.

    Regarding your original communication. I hope the following is seen as an explanation of my thoughts.

    I didn’t know your intent or reasoning behind why you posted since you rarely do about yourself. But you did actively encourage a conversation.

    If you are reading this, and want to have a conversation with me, please post here and I will read and reply.”

    I was unaware of your history of having difficulties with these types of communication. It was very brave of you to share and encourage conversation regardless of that!

    Communication is difficult because it is hard to know another person’s intent.

    I understand why you felt angry thought I was dismissing what you achieved. But I am thinking about things in a different way. Not a right way, just different.

    In my mind, it is both possible to make a huge amount of progress and to have a level of anxiety. Please bear with my thought process for a moment!

    For example, I would not call what you experienced previously quite high anxiety. I would call it extreme suffering. To say that I am quite hungry does not mean that I am experiencing starvation. If that makes sense?

    To go from extreme suffering to quite anxious is indeed something to be celebrated. To me it is not a failure, but a success! Surely more success will follow.

    I didn’t initially acknowledge your recovery from your previous conditions because I don’t particularly assign value or lack of value to conditions or recovery from them. I have C-PTSD, a learning disability and some memory issues myself. I am also from a country that doesn’t remove these types of diagnosis.

    Side note: As a tutor, hands down the best learner I ever had suffered from severe memory problems. Because of the difficulties with memory they were amazing at studying. There was such devotion and care with note-taking.

    I understand now that these things have value and meaning to you rather than being a statement of fact. Well done on achieving your goals!

    It should be noted that due to my learning disability I have difficulty interpreting non-verbal signals and tend to take things quite literally.

    This is probably why I was confused when you denied that you experience anxiety yet previously discussed experiencing anxiety. I apologise for pushing too hard. I didn’t even realise that you were upset until you said that you were feeling uncomfortable and ceased communication.

    I’m a weird one because I don’t see anxiety as a bad thing.

    Also, I went through about 8 years of therapy without ever learning about distress tolerance. I stumbled across it years later. I simply didn’t know if you had heard about it.

    It is very difficult, if not impossible to resolve misunderstandings without communication.

    It should be noted that being ignored is a trigger for me. My family do it when they are displeased with me. I don’t mind people expressing to me when they are feeling angry or upset and do my best to resolve disagreements when they occur.

    What your mother did was unconscionable. My mother also fed on pain.

    I say pain because I do not agree with the word weakness. I do not think you were ever weak to be able to survive her torture.

    The difficulty with paraphrasing is it removes these comments validating the progress you made.

    “even though your anxiety has significantly reduced”

    “You have made significant progress, granted”

    Not quite a cheery ending as I’d hoped but I am very tired and my thoughts are drifting. I wish you all the best and hope that my explanations of my thoughts did not cause further anxiety. Thank you for listening! Please of course feel free to correct any misunderstandings on my part.

    If you would like a break from talking about stressful things at any point please let me know

    #400654
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Helcat:

    Thank you. I appreciate your time and the care that you put into your post. Please forgive me for not reading the middle of your post. Following the gracious beginning I skipped to the end, which is gracious as well.

    I will not post in this thread again unless a member who somehow gets here because of the title, School Bullying shares about the topic. If that happens, I will reply to what the member shares.

    anita

     

    #400668
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    I think that is practicing good self care at the moment. I hope that when you are feeling better you will finish reading it.

    #400671
    HoneyBlossom
    Participant

    Thank you for your post Anita, and if the young lady is reading this, I’m sorry for what she went through.  I went to a Catholic girls school.  I was bullied but most of it was emotional.  I was constantly ridiculed and laughed at. There was domestic violence in my home.  Both of my parents had serious issues, and my older sister was physically and emotionally violent towards me.  I became suicidal at 15 because I was so lonely and felt so hopeless.  I did make a serious attempt on my life and was hospitalised.  I saw a psychiatrist for a while.  I decided that as soon as I was able, I would enter an occupation which would enable me to leave school and home early.  And that is what I did, leaving Ho mn e at 16.

    It was probably the best thing I could have done for myself, but my hone and school life had a lasting effect on me in that I never had a lot of confidence in myself, a nb d I spent way too many years looking for love which I didn’t really find – not the type of love I thought I would anyway.

    I thank God that the internet didn’t exist when I was at school.  I did become a parent myself, and vowed I would never put my own child through what I experienced and I didn’t.  That’s not to say I was a perfect parent myself.  I did however remove my son from a highschool where there was notorious bullying, and despite my son having insisted he wanted to attend that school because he friends were there, he became very depressed at age 14 through being bullied.

    He loved his new school and thrived there.  The only sadness for him that his best friends parents wouldn’t let him move to the new school as well.  His friend hated it too.  They are both 33 years old now and still best friends.  They are like brothers.

    I don’t have a lot of friends, but I don’t care.  I have one very good friend, my son and my pets. – and another lady who hS been very kind to me. I’m grateful for the warmth and advice from here.  That’s enough for me.  The search for love and acceptance is over – what a relief.

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