June 14, 2019 at 9:16 am #299151
Dear Cali Chica:
It will take me a long time to process your answers as well as going back to your previous threads and posts. One question though: “We had arrived 20 mins late to family thanksgiving, there were about 30 people there”- why were you late?
Was it some emergency that happened, inattention, a planned tardiness?
(Unless emergency being the reason, it is rude to keep thirty people waiting on a major holiday, Thanksgiving, expect them all to wait or interrupt the meal long after it started)
anitaJune 14, 2019 at 9:28 am #299157
yes take your time to respond fully we can continue later, tomorrow – whenever – there is no rush at all.
to your question: we arrived late 20 mins because of normal traffic. this was not a formal event, merely a get together at someone’s house. it was ridiculous for them to make a note of it, and quickly “harass us” for it…it is similar to the evil behaviors I talk to you about my mother – going out there to pick on us and poke and prod –
we were not keeping 30 people waiting. the dinner wasn’t until say 6 or so…this was about 3 pm, everyone was arriving and sitting relaxing eating some appetizers. there was no formal dinner served. it was all casual bites, children running around, adults talking -entirely informal get together. our lateness was objectively NOTHING. this was just an example of abuse of them ONTO us.June 14, 2019 at 9:43 am #299159
what I want to mention to you is this – that although my mother is evil and objectively not good.
the treatment of her family onto us was also not good. this is objective. it isn’t just based on her interpretation (which is biased and scewed) it is an objective observation by myself – and anyone else that would know the facts or visualize it.
1) my mother is objectively evil to us, her children
2) her family was objectively evil to us, and my parentsJune 14, 2019 at 10:00 am #299163
Dear Cali Chica:
I understand. Yes, it will take me time and I will post back to you no earlier than tomorrow.
anitaJune 14, 2019 at 10:13 am #299173
Take all the time you need – look forward to talking later this weekend, whenever 🙂June 14, 2019 at 10:34 am #299175
Dear Cali Chica:
I am working on it right now and you can help me figure something out, it will save me time. Before I get to it, I want to note that Nov 6, 2016, you wrote: “this is just the beginning of my journey here on tiny buddha”, made me smile to read this.
My request for clarity at this point is this, am I understanding correctly, and please clarify: in your first decade of life and a bit into the second, your mother took on the “we are okay, we are happy, life is wonderful” stand, that is, she didn’t complain about people being evil to her, jealousy and such? You wrote that she “REALLY did try” to be “bright & positive as someone could be”, during the early years.
How did she REALLY try?
Then when you were a teenager, she started with the over-there-is-better, how lonely she is, slaving at home… telling about her family abusing her and so on, not before, not during your first decade? There was a significant change in her behavior when you were about 12 or so?
And then a second change when you were an older teen (how old?) when she got obsessed with traveling?
anitaJune 14, 2019 at 11:14 am #299179
That made me smile.
So in the first decade of your life and bit into second…
She did still complain and talk about people being evil, in fact the jealousy talk was so much then – in regards to her family. Day in and day out. Here’s the difference, she wasn’t so distraught and “crazy” for lack of a better term. She was able to be more regulated. She didn’t shout and cry each and everyday. She “unraveled” much more in the second decade of my life. For lack of a better term, in medicine, we talk about how there are certain diseases that escalate and get worse with time. IT is that way (but I know that isn’t exactly the case – she was always one way, we just saw more signs of it later).
In that beginning part I recall her being more kind and motherly. I recall her cooking meals, and listening to me.
Second decade she became so dysfunctional she stopped cooking entirely. We would eat meals prepared by this local Indian lady that my father would bring home. She was his patient and loved cooking for catering companies, so he would often have some of her items. She would go crazy all the time . Get obsessed with the cleaning lady, then hate her. Had that affair that we spoke about. Just overall worse for lack of a better term.
The over there is better was always the case. That Disney world example – I was perhaps 9 years old or so.
She became OBSESSED with traveling when I was around 20. Perhaps had something to do with the fact that she didn’t have so much to do – both daughters are pretty grown. She wasn’t so wrapped up in our activities (we were avidly involved in dance and such). We traveled as a family prior to this ever since I was young —
But the obsession started when I was older. IT was this – “I had a terrible life and I dedicated to all of YOU -now its my time to enjoy!! i will be a world traveler”
the thing with her is that – we did have a lot of fun! unlike the classical abusive stories where its all bad – this isnot the case. we went on fun safaris and adventures. truly fun (not just my delusion). but just like when I first started speaking to you – none of that matters — if the reality of her is what it is – you can have a grand old time – but if push comes to shove – you treat your daughters that way…well thats the real stuff!
so yes, the travel became an obsession. she even made “friends” with a hairdresser once and joined her on a trip to bermuda when i was 25 or so —so desperate to go on trips with even mere strangers. needless to say she had no fun on this trip. When my father went to pick her up – my sister was with him. he said I just want to warn you – your mother did not have fun on this trip – that lady she went with was very bad to her. My sister immediately burst into tears, feeling so bad for our poor mother. Later that day I was home at my parents house visiting, and when I heard this – I immediately burst into tears as well for same rason. My mother explained that this lady had bad habits like smoking, and kept leaving her for other friends on the trip (that she was unaware of coming) she talked (looking back – as though she was a child being sad about being left out).
i scolded her and said: you can’t go on trips with random strangers and expect to havea good time. that’s not a good idea nor safe!
and she cried and cried and said yes dear, you are right – I learned my lesson (in this scenario Iwas the mother, she the foolish child)June 14, 2019 at 11:30 am #299185
Dear Cali Chica:
It is interesting, the changes in her behavior through time and how when you were five you were exposed to your mother being a certain way. But your sister at five was exposed to.. not the same mother you were exposed to at five. This factor is one of the factors that explains the differences between you and your sister. Holding the age difference between the two of you in mind and re-reading some of her posts as well, will give me a better understanding. I think this will be a while and yes, no rush, just like you said. I hope you have a good weekend!
anitaJune 14, 2019 at 12:18 pm #299197
Yes, my sister and I had almost very different mothers in our upbringing and childhood. My mother was already distraught and unraveled by the time my sister was a child, so she had projection and negativity from an early age. That compounded with the fact that she was not the golden child I was. So she wasn’t treated like me either. However, unlike myself —my sister knew very early on that my mother was not always right. My mother put her down often and she grew to resent her. I on the other hand I always protected and defended my mother and thought that she could do no harm. Yes as I got older I got to see her personality traits and was frustrated by them often. But I always hold onto the believe that my mother had a bad life and that’s why she was this way.In that sense, my sister had awareness much early on.she saw reality earlier. It makes sense given that her experience was different. A different mother so to speak.
Yes of course take all the time that you need to enjoy the summer weekend.June 14, 2019 at 1:19 pm #299203
Dear Cali Chica:
My thoughts this afternoon: your lifeline during your childhood was socializing outside your home. That was something your mother encouraged, approved of, and this is where you thrived and how you thrived.
You were able to be as calm as you were because of this outside- socializing. Inside the home you didn’t have much closeness, not with your mother, not with your father, and not with your much younger sister. Your sister didn’t connect with others, not inside the home and not outside the home.
As you grew older the socializing outside the home, much of it, became an automation, losing its vitality. As a married adult woman, you still seek the connection outside home/ outside your marriage. You didn’t seek connection within your relationship with your husband; you didn’t have connection at home as a child. So you kept looking for it outside, other people, just like when you were a child.
In a way, your marriage has been mostly living in that big, cold and empty house of your childhood, and you kept looking for the smaller, warmer homes outside, other people’s homes, other people.
All along, over there was better, because over-here, really was miserable. As you socialized as a child over there, your sister was over-here, in that misery of the big, cold home.
Have a good weekend, I think I will post to you Monday.
anitaJune 14, 2019 at 1:40 pm #299205
No, not done yet-
Dear Cali Chica:
No, no no… your mother wasn’t in a better shape when you were younger, no.. you were just able to endure it well because of your outside lifeline. This is where you thrived, outside.
Fast forward, the maturing Cali Chica can no longer thrive by playing childhood games with friends, that chalk game and such, she has a need for more, like any adult, the childhood ways of socializing are no longer satisfactory. What she doesn’t have experience with at home is true intimacy, closeness. So now as an adult she is stuck without the child ability to find satisfaction in playing with other children, and without experience with close, intimate relationships.
So with the husband there is no intimacy, and reaching to others, ‘to play” is no longer satisfactory, therefore the previously … care free child CC is now an anxious CC the adult.
Okay, now I have to stop, go for a walk, for crying out loud! I hope you are okay with this… Do let me know if you are not, if you need to “talk” a bit more this Friday.
I will go for a walk then back in a few hours, and will continue my study tomorrow (I only read your first few short threads this morning, not much).
anitaJune 14, 2019 at 1:44 pm #299207
please please enjoy that walk!
I wanted to write only one thing to you. And my jaw is dropped. So – I didn’t tell you this. But last night my husband came to me and said that he truly feels we lack a closeness and intimacy. That I connect with others better than him. That I connect so well with everyone but him it seems. That I lack a true/real closeness love and passion with him. Word for Word. How uncanny. You are absolutely right. He is absolutely right. To be continued… Monday or whenever you wish.June 14, 2019 at 2:10 pm #299211
Sorry one more thing. Just before I forget.
My husband mentioned that I often deflect with the dog. We could be in the middle of an important conversation, and I’ll start talking to the dog. Not talking to the dog like a crazy person, but I am very close to my dog, in fact I think I feel more love and closeness to my dog that I have ever – for anything in my entire life. Yes I do.
So For examples sake – I will deflect and say to my dog: oh have you eaten yet today? I quickly change my focus to that. Even if my husband and I are in the middle of a conversation. Kind of like a wife deflecting on to her children all of the time and perhaps not focusing on real/good conversation with her husband.June 14, 2019 at 6:55 pm #299217
Dear Cali Chica:
Thank you, the walk was fine and am back from that brewery I told you about, lots of people and dogs, and back before seven. Hope you are having quality time with your husband. I will read your two recent posts more thoroughly tomorrow and a lot more, will post you probably Monday.
anitaJune 17, 2019 at 10:57 am #299481
Dear Cali Chica:
I’ve been reading, copying and pasting for hours Sat- today but there is more time and work I need to do, so I am not ready today to post to you regarding this study-in progress. I read all of your sister’s posts in your thread and in her own thread. She asked me long ago to not reference her posts in my communication with you, so I will not do so. I am using her posts to learn about your childhood experience and will let you know about it later on. I also read all your posts from your previous, short threads as well as the beginning of this thread, Self Trust, January 2018 as well as all of your May and June 2019 posts. I don’t know if I will read the 80 or more pages of Feb 2018-April 2019. There is simply too much material to read and process. What I have so far may be enough.
Until I conclude my study I don’t want to resume our exercise. This study is about learning from what we did so far and learning how to better proceed. If you want you can post not at length, at this point, your thoughts and feelings about what is happening in your life, as well as about what I posted here to you this Monday still morning here, 2 pm your time.