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  • #224163
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Thank you Anita!

    Bonjour from Paris!

    #224167
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    Anniversary in Paris, my goodness! Enjoy!

    anita

    #224491
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    How are you? Paris was incredible. a quick weekend, but wonderful.  It was truly a time to sink and savor, as that is the Parisian way, sink in and savor an espresso, baguette, cheese, wine, for hours on end – that is what they do.  It was nice to sit in peace and enjoy meals for once, and walk around and enjoy the weather

    I often have trouble returning from such trips to the hustle and bustle of what is the American way.  It can be quite disillusioning, and makes you think – what is the point of it all?

    Since my return, I have been able to observe many thoughts.   I have thought about how burdensome it is to go through all this. No, it is not a breakup, or an acute let down.  It is a lifetime burden of healing from trauma. Yes, I can say it is unfair.  I can not just focus on being an adult, my job, and new marriage – no I am burdened by the heavinesss of all of this in every second. it isn’t a situation, it is my life.

    It is a heavy feeling, a numb heavy feeling, a numbness that hurts almost.   i am sure you have felt like this before. i certainly have many times in my life.  yet, this time i can make sense of it.  in a way this time i can say to myself – i have had trauma for 30 years, of course i am going to feel like this.  proceessing all of it.  truly grasping the depth of it all unravels in small pieces, unraveling as it wants to.  somedays feeling new things, others not.

    #224497
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    Will you tell me more about this “numb heavy feeling”- did you experience it in Paris? On the plane on the way back to NY.. when did the feeling return and otherwise.

    anita

    #224507
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Hello,

    this feeling was quite heavy on the plane ride back from Paris. In fact it was one of the only times I can recall recently that I had a full 8 hours to my own thoughts. No where to go and nothing to distract. I thought a lot about the “burden” of generational trauma. I don’t necessarily like the term burden – but the fact that what my mom did is now passed down to me and I must heal and spend energy doing so. In addition those who don’t heal their wounds pass them down (perhaps a big part of what happened to my mother based on her own trauma) but it is irrelevant why or how. The fact that I have this huge task of now healing from her toxicity is my daily task and conquest.

    So yes after the flight I felt a lot of this and it continued until today. I also notice of course that my mood will fluctuate with things such as my cycle (worse mood swings with PMS over the last year) and of course normal things like sleep/stress. So those are also contributing at this present time. I do like to be more aware of this now.

    #224509
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    This “numb heavy feeling” is probably the same feeling you experienced day in and day out being trapped with your mother and father, and it is that experience that disturbs your sleep as well. There were distractions in childhood and distractions in adulthood, but that feeling, that base feeling (you used the term base anxiety) has been there since childhood.

    The generational trauma you mentioned, this is pretty much the human condition, I have learnt. Following the “Parisian way, sink and savor an espresso, baguette, cheese, wine, for hours on end”- eventually everyone goes back to that base childhood feeling.

    Healing is the  only way I know to change that base feeling/ base anxiety beyond this or that distraction. Keep the faith in the process.

    anita

    #224513
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    i do understand what you mean about healing is the only way to change that base anxiety. I would like you to elaborate more on that if you could, when you have a moment.

    #224517
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    When we are children, scared and stuck, we disassociate. The fear disassociates from the events, so when we remember our childhood as adults, the memories are dry or even pleasant. The fear is not there in those dry memories.

    But the fear is not gone. It’s been our experience all along. We fear and go numb, numb and get scared, distract and back to fear, and sadness and anger, the secondary feelings following fear.

    We keep experiencing the experience of childhood in the present while remembering our childhood in a dry manner, devoid of the strong feelings experienced then.

    To re-associate, we have to be aware of the fear now, and realize it is the same fear of then. We then know that it really was us then, so many years ago. To state it personally: it really was me those many years ago.

    anita

     

    #224545
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Your insight and knowledge are amazing.  Like that of a seasoned professional.  Well in many ways you are one, to me, as you have went through this for many years, and supported many – knowledge is power in so many ways.

    What you wrote to me was quite deep, and I read it many times and pondered it.  To me it is 2 parts, the first in which understanding that the child dissociates.  Which is in fact quite fascinating, as this is a subconscious protective mechanism.  And two, the aspect of the: fear then is the fear now.  This part I will work up to understanding, it will take time.  I will focus on the first now, as a student.

    I wanted to read more about this concept, and learn more – and so I did some research.  An article by a psychologist explained it really well, just like you did.  I have pasted it below if you are interested in reading it.  I will process the information – it is unbelievable how crucial positive/healthy interaction between a child and mother is, and how deeply future trauma/fear can be based on those moments.  Those formative years truly are formative, aren’t they.

    Disorganized Attachment and Dissociation

    In attachment theory, the caregiver ideally serves as a secure base from which the child can receive comfort and support (secure attachment). Their responses to the child’s actions determine how the child will come to see the world and view relationships in the future. One particular form of attachment, disorganized attachment occurs when the caregiver mistreats the child, frequently frightens the child, miscommunicates feelings, and has highly unrealistic expectations of the child (e.g., relying on the child for care).
    Caregivers who act in ways that give rise to disorganized attachment may behave very inconsistently (for example at times they are intrusive, at times they withdraw), which creates confusion for the child. The child may end up with multiple, incompatible views of the caregiver (seeing the caregiver as a source of protection and danger at the same time) and incompatible views of themselves (feeling confusion about whether they are good or bad). These incompatible views are very difficult to reconcile and hard to combine into a coherent structure.
    The child is left with confusion about who their

    parents are, and who they are, making it difficult to establish a coherent sense of self. This sort of fragmentation lays the groundwork for dissociative experiences.

    Even more confusing, the child faces the dilemma of both protecting themselves from a caregiver and maintaining a relationship with them. Jennifer Freyd explains that the betrayal trauma, the sense of betrayal often found in children abused by their caregivers explains why many children forget the abuse, or rather, put it out of their minds.

    If the child copes by dissociating, it makes it easier to continue daily life with the parent than if they were fully aware of the traumatic past experiences.

    #224577
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    Thank you. It’s been a long, long time, years, since I read books, articles online or elsewhere on psychology and psychotherapy, child development and so on. I read what I read, a whole lot,  years ago. In my process I learn from the inside out, from the beginning (using a “beginner’s mind”), using the basics, the building blocks and taking it from there.

    The academic understanding published as I know it is an outside-in type of information, that is, the researcher/ professional is studying human psychology and behavior as that of a different species, as if the one studying is of a different species, and so, is removed from the one being studied.

    The last lines of what you posted: “if the child copes by dissociating, it makes it easier to continue daily life with the parent than if they were fully aware of the traumatic past experiences”- with my beginner’s  mind I am correcting this sentence: if the child copes by dissociating, it makes it possible to survive daily life with the parent. If they were fully aware of the often ongoing traumatic experience of their childhood, they would not survive it.

    anita

     

     

    #224589
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    yes in medicine and psychology it is an outside to inside approach. These “experts” studying humans as specimens. Many of which would never relate personally. I do believe who better to learn from than someone who went through it their own self and came out on the other side (like you, and as time goes on me).

    If the child copes by dissociating, it makes it possible to survive daily life with the parent. If they were fully aware of the often ongoing traumatic experience of their childhood, they would not survive it.

    This makes sense. So as an adult now if I am fully aware of the trauma of what was my life I wouldn’t be surviving, wouldn’t be functional. This is hard to grasp but I am looking at others (not like me) to think of general examples.

    I have a former friend that has many toxic relationships with men. Highs and lows, she was often treated so poorly by them at the end. But would bounce back and be dissociated from it all and move forward. Her ways were not healthy and by no means relatable to my life. But yet there are similarities. Dissociating from what my mom did just 2 years ago to survive. But what about her behaviors 25 years ago that I don’t remember. Surely dissociated from that right. Or else I wouldn’t be here in the way I am..?

     

     

     

     

     

    #224599
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    I am not clear about your question in the last couple of lines, can you rewrite?

    anita

    #224697
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Sorry let me rephrase, I think I was just trying to wrap my head around the concept.

    I meant to say something along the lines of this. If I was to fully grasp the REALITY of what was my entire childhood up until adulthood, I would not be able to survive.  Our brains allow us to dissociate as a coping mechanism for survival.  That far after such, (at a time like now) when I am open to feeling – it is not merely a switch on.  I have been in disassociation mode my whole life in order to survive the wrath that is my mother – it was the only way that I could have made it out alive.  Thus, now when I seek to process and feel fully, it is not accessible immediately.  It is buried deep within years of storage, like the real estate my mom holds in me in many ways.  There is lots of baggage and trauma bottled up, tucked away, so that I could wake up every day, and make a functional life.

    And here I am – saying I am ready – let me feel it – bring it on.  But it simply takes time.  It will unravel one by one.  New thoughts, new realizations, even new memories.  How often do I have an interaction in the present day, which reminds me of a true interaction with my mother years ago – that I had totally forgot, or did not see it with clarity.  Slowly but surely.

    So today I had such an interaction that truly I felt was for a reason, it was quite eye opening.  I would like to share.

    I am moving at the end of this month, and spending this weekend, selling items, packing, cleansing.  Out with the old, in with the new.

    I put a few items up for sale, and a woman came by with an elderly frail lady.  It was her mother in law. The lady (J) was here to buy some drawers, but she saw I also had an abundant amount of women’s items, clothing, shoes, the like.  I told her they were also for sale, and great quality.  (I am looking to downsize and get rid of excess – remove what no longer serves me, physically and spiritually).

    So the elderly women picked up an item gingerly, and tried it on.  I smiled, as it seemed the women had a taste for fashion even in her old frail state.  I then observed the following.  She would make faces of discontent and then look at her daughter in law.  She would speak (in Spanish which I can understand) and mumble things such as.  “oh too short.” “oh too long” “oh isn’t there anything for me.”

    She then picked out about 25 items.  Her daughter stated she only had some cash on hand, and so she could only pick a few.  the elderly women had quite a sullen look on her face, and begrudgingly put things back.  She then went into the pile her DIL picked, and critiqued each piece.

    I observed this all.  Not from the point of a seller, or someone that is marketing or even looking to make money.  But from the perspective of a daughter and mother (or in this case MIL). J chuckled and rolled her eyes a few times and looked at me and whispered, yup she is very particular and be difficult, and she smirked.

    I thought about how odd the concept was for anyone was to walk in.  An 80 year old woman trying on the clothes of a 20-30 year old, and critiquing them, too long, too short, too heavy, too light, oh this doesn’t zip perfectly.

    An outsider would think – well of course lady! i simply observed.

    and then her daughter in law, just watching, and letting her do her thing, as though she was a child.  at the end picking an exorbitant amount of things, and pouting that her DIL didn’t have much money on hand.

    Once again, J appeasing the lady telling her we would come back. The elderly lady wouldn’t accept it.  She continued to fawn over a dress that wasn’t in the pile.

    I was getting tired so I said, politely – I think we have a good amount here for the price. We could always return to it.  And J reiterated they could come back

    An hour later, I was emotionally drained! Of course I am more sensitive to such and not a mere observer, as i did have a difficult emotion sucking mother.  So it isn’t just me watching as an outsider. But wow – all of this for some clothes – imagine what else! The concept was clear, some people are just this way, it doesn’t matter if it is over a dress, or climbing a mountain – they do not see their own inflexibility, difficulty, and sheer ridiculousness.  The other party is expected to be patient and go along with it.  Of course they must!

    Now these were strangers, and perhaps those 2 have a great relationship – good for them.  That is not my point.

    I felt the painstaking ways, the emotional neediness, the attention, the me me me, and I wasn’t even involved.  After they left I felt like wow – I need a moment! Phew!

    Interesting to observe such in the world, even when not in your own life.  It does exist a lot everywhere doesn’t it! Thought I would share.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Cali Chica.
    #224761
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I woke up with this thought:

    She acted like she wanted to give me wings all my life to be Independent, but the moment she truly saw them she tried to clip them as fast as she could.

    #224767
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    J’s mother in law, when she heard that J didn’t have much cash on her, “went into the pile her DIL picked, and critiqued each piece”. Her motivation was that J will not buy those items, and instead buy the items that she wanted for herself. It is “the me me me” motivation.

    You wrote about your mother, “She acted like she wanted to give me wings all my life to be Independent, but the moment she truly saw them she tried to clip them as fast as she could”- she wanted the wings on her pile, for herself. Like J’s mother in law.

    You wrote that you disassociated so to survive, so that you “could wake up every day, and make a functional life”.

    The challenge is to enjoy that functional life.

    The way to access past painful experiences is to pay attention to the “interaction(s) in the present day, which reminds me of a true interaction with my mother years ago”. We keep experiencing our past in the present time, and so, this is how we can know what happened then.

    You write very well.

    anita

     

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