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anita.
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July 25, 2024 at 3:57 am #435356
NotSoSadSoul
ParticipantIt’s been a long day but my thoughts have wandered to this many times. I still don’t know how to reply and I’m really tired. I am going to go with simple and hope I don’t put my foot in it.
Please don’t mistake my inability to think of a way to make contact as lack of interest. None of the ways I’ve thought of have worked out and I’m a bit stumped trying to think of a way. I need to feel safe and you need to feel safe too. So far where I feel safe doesn’t feel safe for you and vice versa.
Thank you for sharing how you’re feeling. I had noticed you weren’t communicating as much and thought you’d been busy with all the interesting things you’ve had going on. The insecure little voice in my head sneaked the thought in that it might be that I’ve done something wrong, but I chose not to listen to that voice.
I am sad, and have felt hurt and misunderstood, and never had the intention of making you feel this way.
July 25, 2024 at 6:05 am #435357anita
ParticipantDear SadSoul:
“I need to feel safe and you need to feel safe too. So far where I feel safe doesn’t feel safe for you and vice versa“- a misunderstanding: I said no to Facebook and Instagram not because I feel unsafe to make it happen for the purpose of communicating with you privately, but because I don’t know how to make it happen.
Why has it been unsafe for you to create a new email just for the purpose of sharing it in this public forum (people have shared email addresses in the forums many times)?
“Thank you for sharing how you’re feeling” – it’s kind of you to thank me for sharing how I’m feeling when what I shared caused you hurt.
“I had noticed you weren’t communicating as much and thought you’d been busy with all the interesting things you’ve had going on. The insecure little voice in my head sneaked the thought in that it might be that I’ve done something wrong, but I chose not to listen to that voice“- for me, to reach out for.. a loving personal contact (knowing your name, finally knowing what sport you’ve been talking about, what country you were born in, what country you reside in; hearing your voice, hearing the emotion in your voice and sharing mine, etc.), and to be ignored or rejected is a painful experience.
It seems to me that you don’t trust me personally (on email) with the kind of information I mentioned right above, as if you think that I could be a bad person who will use information you provide to harm you.
* June 9: “I’m scared of my choices in friends“- didn’t trust me to be a friend? Suspected I may be an enemy if given information about you, such as your name and country of residence?
“I am sad, and have felt hurt and misunderstood, and never had the intention of making you feel this way.“- I am sorry that you feel sad, hurt and misunderstood.
What part of you- that you think I misunderstood- would you like me to understand?
anita
July 25, 2024 at 9:59 pm #435402NotSoSadSoul
Participant“I need to feel safe and you need to feel safe too. So far where I feel safe doesn’t feel safe for you and vice versa“- a misunderstanding: I said no to Facebook and Instagram not because I feel unsafe to make it happen for the purpose of communicating with you privately, but because I don’t know how to make it happen.
I can help make it happen by creating instructions that will help you get there if you’re able to feel comfortable to do this.
I feel very safe using the messenger app that’s attached to Facebook. I activated an old messenger account when we first talked about catching up outside of here. I didn’t activate the Facebook side of it as I wanted to test how it would work (from memory, when you joined FB you’d been contacted by people you moved a long way from to avoid and weren’t comfortable with this option, which is understandable. There are ways of avoiding people you don’t want messages from so you don’t have to hear from them)
This account isn’t my every day FB account, it’s the one I used years ago as a filter when getting to know some people online. I would still take time sharing things about myself though but I don’t want to go into details about why just now. I’d share my name and sport though 😂 and you’d work my accent out very quickly.
There are lots of reasons I feel safe using that way of contacting. I like it also because you can talk face to face on it or without a video feed like on the phone and it’s free.
for me, to reach out for.. a loving personal contact (knowing your name, finally knowing what sport you’ve been talking about, what country you were born in, what country you reside in; hearing your voice, hearing the emotion in your voice and sharing mine, etc.), and to be ignored or rejected is a painful experience.
I am not ignoring or rejecting you. I truly am not.
It seems to me that you don’t trust me personally (on email) with the kind of information I mentioned right above, as if you think that I could be a bad person who will use information you provide to harm you.
I don’t think you’re bad. I suppose to an extent I don’t trust anyone online. Not like I would if we’d met in real life and got to know each other. I am cautious of all online contacts. I might be overly cautious and I don’t know how to change that. Up till now I haven’t felt the need to change it and this thought has caused me a fair amount of angst trying to put myself there.
I don’t want you to take my cautiousness personally or to heart. It is so I am and it’s not my intention that it hurt or upset you. And I’d prefer the messenger than email because it’s in my comfort zone which might not be yours.
What part of you- that you think I misunderstood- would you like me to understand? anita
I never intended to seem like I was ignoring or didn’t care that you were reaching out.
July 26, 2024 at 9:05 am #435409anita
ParticipantDear SadSoul:
“I don’t trust anyone online… I am cautious of all online contacts. I might be overly cautious… I don’t want you to take my cautiousness personally or to heart. It is so I am and it’s not my intention that it hurt or upset you… I never intended to seem like I was ignoring or didn’t care that you were reaching out.“-
-It took me some time but I finally understand what happened: I tend to take words literally and am not sophisticated when it comes to virtual emotional closeness. So, when you invited me again and again for (virtual) coffee and food in your home (first time it happened to me online!), I mistakenly thought (without thinking) that you trusted me, because you wouldn’t invite a person you don’t trust into your home.
In my mind’s eye, following your warm, enthusiastic invitations for coffee and food and other expressions, I saw a very friendly SadSoul standing by the open gate to your property, welcoming me with open arms (a smell of coffee and scones in the air). And so, I responded to that image with strong positive emotions.
This morning, I am correcting this image: if I walked into your property in real-life (with a sign saying I am anita), I will be faced not with a very friendly, welcoming SadSoul, but perhaps with barking guard dogs chasing me out of the property, and an alarmed SadSoul pointing a weapon at me, or calling the police.
Now I understand that what you meant to say when you invited me into your home is that you like me in the virtual context, as in saying: in a different world (Fantasy) I would invite you into my home!
I apologize, I wasn’t sophisticated enough to understand correctly.
In my July 24 post I quoted from our exchange starting June 9. Look at what I told you June 9: “I would be such a friend irl! As much as I love my favorite kinds of food (extra-cheese pizza, extra- and I mean ALL cheese, melted), I’d turn my back on the cheese and attend to SadSoul!“- this is a little girl’s voice, genuinely excited about showing you (in real- life) that you are way more important to me than the food you offered me so many times.
What I boldfaced right above is not a smart, sophisticated online conversationalist- it’s a little girl, a loving little girl.
Back to what you wrote in your most recent post: I don’t trust anyone online… I am cautious of all online contacts. I might be overly cautious… I don’t want you to take my cautiousness personally or to heart“- this morning, I am adjusting my mental image of you:
SadSoul likes anita the online contact, and she is cautious with, and distrustful of this online contact, but it’s nothing personal because she is cautious with, and distrustful of all online contacts.
It’s been my intellectual deficit/ lack of online sophistication that’s been responsible to this misunderstanding.
I would like to abandon this topic and invite you to share anything you’d like to share with me.
anita
July 26, 2024 at 2:45 pm #435418NotSoSadSoul
ParticipantIt’s not exactly that either. If I knew you in real life I’d throw on the coffee, drag you to movies, hope you might be interested in my sport. The difficult part is in between here and there, partly that I don’t want anyone else to contact me if I add contact details, and partly getting to know you in person rather than in writing.
I’m so sorry. I am not good at explaining and I’ve hurt you.
July 26, 2024 at 2:51 pm #435420NotSoSadSoul
Participantcheese, melted), I’d turn my back on the cheese and attend to SadSoul!
I’d turn my back on cheese to attend you too if you were sitting in my living room. It’s just I don’t know how to go from this forum to there. I’m afraid.
July 26, 2024 at 4:44 pm #435421NotSoSadSoul
ParticipantIt has taken me a little while to process everything you said, I’m still processing, and I’m feeling sad and guilty.
Dear SadSoul: “I don’t trust anyone online… I am cautious of all online contacts. I might be overly cautious… I don’t want you to take my cautiousness personally or to heart. It is so I am and it’s not my intention that it hurt or upset you… I never intended to seem like I was ignoring or didn’t care that you were reaching out.“- -It took me some time but I finally understand what happened: I tend to take words literally and am not sophisticated when it comes to virtual emotional closeness. So, when you invited me again and again for (virtual) coffee and food in your home (first time it happened to me online!), I mistakenly thought (without thinking) that you trusted me, because you wouldn’t invite a person you don’t trust into your home. In my mind’s eye, following your warm, enthusiastic invitations for coffee and food and other expressions, I saw a very friendly SadSoul standing by the open gate to your property, welcoming me with open arms (a smell of coffee and scones in the air). And so, I responded to that image with strong positive emotions.
If we lived close by we’d have made a coffee date or two at a local coffee shop. We’d have taken walks on the beach. We’d have caught up in person very early on and crossed the bridge of unknown to known. So on my mind it was okay. I emotionally crossed that bridge fairly early on in our conversations online and didn’t realise it, and I didn’t realise a couple of other things:
1. How my invitations would hurt you
2. That I felt safe inviting you, a person I wanted to know in real life but couldn’t ever see that happening given our different continents, and of lesser concern if you were a bad person there was no way our paths could cross
3. That I don’t know how to initiate another form of contact and feel safe as everyone can see what information I give out. Even giving my alias messenger contact is frightening for me. Not because of you but because of everyone else who might use it
This morning, I am correcting this image: if I walked into your property in real-life (with a sign saying I am anita), I will be faced not with a very friendly, welcoming SadSoul, but perhaps with barking guard dogs chasing me out of the property, and an alarmed SadSoul pointing a weapon at me, or calling the police.
If you knew me you wouldn’t have this picture of me. I would be concerned if you showed up right this minute because there would be something frightening about you knowing where I live without me giving you my address… If we’d jumped a few of the get to know you hurdles I’d throw the door open and be excited to meet you. No gun, no guard dogs, although my dog thinks she’s a guard dog but is afraid of cats.
Now I understand that what you meant to say when you invited me into your home is that you like me in the virtual context, as in saying: in a different world (Fantasy) I would invite you into my home! I apologize, I wasn’t sophisticated enough to understand correctly. In my July 24 post I quoted from our exchange starting June 9. Look at what I told you June 9: “I would be such a friend irl! As much as I love my favorite kinds of food (extra-cheese pizza, extra- and I mean ALL cheese, melted), I’d turn my back on the cheese and attend to SadSoul!“- this is a little girl’s voice, genuinely excited about showing you (in real- life) that you are way more important to me than the food you offered me so many times. What I boldfaced right above is not a smart, sophisticated online conversationalist- it’s a little girl, a loving little girl.
This breaks my heart that I’ve caused you to feel this way. I am so sorry. I’ll stop trying to explain the terrain in my head as I’m not sure it’s something anyone other than myself can understand, and even then, it’s caused me a very large amount of worrying and feeling awful trying to work it out the past few days. I’m looking at myself from your point of view and seeing how I’d feel. I’d feel very hurt and confused. You’ve been amazing sharing this with me rather than turning your back on it all.
Back to what you wrote in your most recent post: I don’t trust anyone online… I am cautious of all online contacts. I might be overly cautious… I don’t want you to take my cautiousness personally or to heart“- this morning, I am adjusting my mental image of you: SadSoul likes anita the online contact, and she is cautious with, and distrustful of this online contact, but it’s nothing personal because she is cautious with, and distrustful of all online contacts. It’s been my intellectual deficit/ lack of online sophistication that’s been responsible to this misunderstanding.
I don’t want you to adjust your picture of me. I don’t think I’m a cold person – that’s how reading this makes me feel. I’m afraid. Up until 10 years ago my home was full of family, friends, food, warmth, coffee. My partner played a big part in that slowly disappearing. My best friend also had never allowed other friendships, which didn’t stand out too much to me because I worked a lot and didn’t have time for other friendships, and I was grateful to her for fitting in with my busy life. I was blessed to have her too. They both exited my life at the same time. Not long after my mother exited. I can see I’m painting a picture here that could look like I’m the problem.
I’ve been alone for five years. I haven’t pursued friendships because my heart is so broken. Meeting you, getting to know you, well, you and one other person I met online, you’re the only people I’ve felt comfortable to be me with and wanted to get to know. I’m cautious though, of unwanted people getting my contact information, and of getting to know anyone slowly.
I have had experiences with people I got to know online. That doesn’t make you one of those experiences, but you are caught in the crossfire of that, alongside my heart being afraid of more hurt.
I’ll stop now as you had said you didn’t want to talk about it more and I have talked a lot more about it. I haven’t given up on us having contact in other ways I just am trying to accept your email suggestion as being a safe one. I’ve been trying all along to feel comfortable with it. Trying to understand why I’m afraid.
July 26, 2024 at 9:56 pm #435425anita
ParticipantDear SadSoul: will read and reply Sat morning (Fri night here).
anita
July 27, 2024 at 7:46 am #435428anita
ParticipantDear SadSoul:
“I’d turn my back on cheese to attend you too if you were sitting in my living room. It’s just I don’t know how to go from this forum to there. I’m afraid“- you don’t have to go from this forum to anywhere else. It’s okay. We’ll stay here. I don’t want to go there (anywhere beyond this forum) anymore. Like the B.B. King song says: The Thrill is Gone.
“It has taken me a little while to process everything you said“- I will do some processing now: I hardly had any understanding of what the child within me (inner child) meant until recently. I had no connection, no empathy for the child that I was, as if the child that I was- was a concept, an idea, not a person. When I read, just the other day, what I wrote to you back on June 9 (“…As much as I love… extra-cheese pizza, extra- and I mean ALL cheese, melted), I’d turn my back on the cheese and attend to SadSoul!“)- it was a rare moment when I recognized anita-the-child, or anita the little girl that I was, and who is still part of me, a child who just expressed herself like a child.
Once I recognized her, I could feel her enthusiasm, her honest excitement about having a SadSoul friend. And next, I recognized that she (anita) was sad and hurt because SadSoul didn’t care to be my friend irl.
Next, I recognized that I need to do something for the child in me (no longer being an adult divorced from the child). I recognized that it was wrong for me to (try and fail to) act like nothing happened, and in so doing, dismiss and ignore my hurt and sadness, as if I don’t matter (to me).
So, I spoke up, and I did it as responsibly as I could, not abusively.
“I’m still processing, and I’m feeling sad and guilty“- at first, I felt guilty about speaking up (for the child-within me) because I understood that it will be somewhat painful for you to read. I thought about what you shared, your pain through time and I didn’t want to add to it. So, I thought about saying nothing, but it felt like the wrong thing to do for me and for you, because it’d be dishonest on my part.
The right way to go about life is to no longer sacrifice myself (the child part of me) so to not make waves, to not upset anyone. Instead: to speak up, to honor her. To honor me.. what a concept!
And so, I understand that you felt sad and guilty, and I am sorry that you did. I hope that you no longer feel this way. I don’t want to punish you for my hurt. That’s not my purpose. But if this is the temporary result of my honoring the child-within me (done responsibly; not abusively), then it’s okay with me.
It can happen that “sad and guilty” is an opportunity of growth/ gaining better understanding and acceptance of oneself.
“Even giving my alias messenger contact is frightening for me. Not because of you but because of everyone else who might use it“- it’s okay, no such requirement or demand or expectation. I don’t want you to share your alias messenger contact, or any other contact.
Note (not intended at all to cause you to share contact): I’ve been posting here since May 2015, read from thousands of members from every continent in the world, except for Antartica, people sharing contacts and identifiable information, including the town and country where one lives, and not even once did I come across a complaint by anyone in regard to abuse of contact/ information.
“This breaks my heart that I’ve caused you to feel this way. I am so sorry… I’m looking at myself from your point of view and seeing how I’d feel. I’d feel very hurt and confused. You’ve been amazing sharing this with me rather than turning your back on it all“- thank you. And thank you for the opportunity to grow, to learn, to understand better, to be a better human.
“I don’t want you to adjust your picture of me… I haven’t given up on us having contact in other ways I just am trying to accept your email suggestion as being a safe one. I’ve been trying all along to feel comfortable with it. Trying to understand why I’m afraid.“- (1) I have given up on us having contact in other ways, so please don’t feel like you are supposed to, or expected to do what is scary for you to do.
(2) I noticed long ago that you are excessively afraid. I mean, if you shared the sport you do, who-how-why would anyone go through the huge and expensive undertaking of locating all the people in the world doing the sport, so to locate and harm.. you?
You told about a plumber (I think he was) who you found out used to be a policeman, and you were afraid that he will retroactively (is the only way I can put it) arrest your adult son for a theft he committed years or decades ago. So, yes, SadSoul is a Good Soul who is unrealistically and excessively Afraid.
anita
July 28, 2024 at 6:57 am #435452NotSoSadSoul
ParticipantI worked this weekend so haven’t had a good chance to chew this all over. Thank you for sharing. It might take a day or two to digest, no rest for the wicked, still have to work Monday to Friday!
July 28, 2024 at 7:29 am #435454anita
ParticipantDear SadSoul:
You are welcome, and thank you for the note! Please do take your time. I am exhausted this Sun morning and the day (The belly dancing event day!) didn’t even start.
anita
July 28, 2024 at 10:23 am #435457Helcat
ParticipantHey Anita and SadSoul
I was wondering if Anita would like me to create an email address for her? I can provide the log in details, a link to login and a link to change the password so that I won’t be able to login and you know that your conversations are private.
Would that be helpful of interest for you both to communicate privately?
Love and best wishes to both of you! 🙏❤️
July 29, 2024 at 5:22 am #435466NotSoSadSoul
ParticipantThat’s a lovely thought, Helcat. Would you be up for that, Anita?
I have read everything and given it much thought. There are only two things I wanted to share:
“sad and hurt because SadSoul didn’t care to be my friend irl”
This is not correct, I do care to be your friend IRL.“SadSoul is a Good Soul who is unrealistically and excessively Afraid”
I am afraid but I don’t think this is accurate either.Anyway, that’s all I wanted to say.
How did the belly dancing event go? I hope you managed to sleep well and wake up refreshed. I am on my computer and my dog is laying asleep on my desk next to me. Dogs are the best. Did you end up getting the dog you were going to have?
July 29, 2024 at 10:07 am #435515anita
Participant* Dear Helcat: what a lovely offer, I am touched by your willingness and initiative to help, thank you! (You can read below my thoughts about it).
Dear SadSoul:
“Would you be up for that, Anita?“- no. Like I wrote to you 5 days ago (July 24): “I gave up on it a couple of days ago, and am no longer interested in friendship beyond your thread“, and two days ago (July 27): “I don’t want to go there (anywhere beyond this forum) anymore“.
You responded to my statement that I was “sad and hurt because SadSoul didn’t care to be my friend irl” with “This is not correct, I do care to be your friend IRL“- I cared like a little girl cares, in a joyfully anticipatory kind of way. It makes me smile to just remember the feeling.
Your response to my statement that I think that you are “a Good Soul who is unrealistically and excessively Afraid” with “I am afraid but I don’t think this is accurate either“:
About your sport/ hobby, you wrote on March 30: “I prefer not to publicly say what my private passion is, as I don’t want to give too many facts about myself out. What we say on this forum is not hidden from google searches“- are there only a few people in the world engaged in this sport? If there are many thousands, who would be motivated to compile a list of many thousands of people from all over the world, and try to locate you within the list, not knowing your name (first or last), your age (or date of birth), place of birth, place of residence, etc., etc.?
And it just occurred to me: you are afraid to share the sport on this small public forum. I assume you’d be afraid to appear on any public forum such as a website dedicated to the sport? So, someone motivated to locate you would have to physically travel to different parts of the world, looking for a woman in her 40s or 50s, or so, with dark black eyes (the only physical feature you shared about)?
“How did the belly dancing event go?“- it was an unusual experience for me. There is a whole belly dancing/ Hafla culture: it is very inclusive of (1) females and males: there was one male belly dancer), (2) all ages: one of the dancers, and a very good dancer, was in her 80s, late 80s, I think, with body exposed the same as the younger dancers, (3) all sizes: all the way from slender with flat belly (just two of the dancers: one of the youngest and the oldest), to obese: one of the dancers had a very, very large belly.
And you could easily recognize the beauty of each one of the dancers as she danced. There was no effort to hide or cover old age, or any other thing that’s considered to be (in the greater society) a body imperfection. It was really amazing!
“I hope you managed to sleep well and wake up refreshed. I am on my computer and my dog is laying asleep on my desk next to me. Dogs are the best. Did you end up getting the dog you were going to have?“- thank you. I am still tired, not from the performance itself, but from the work this weekend: before and after the performance. Regarding Achie the dog, not yet.
anita
July 29, 2024 at 11:15 am #435526Helcat
ParticipantHi Anita
Well if you ever change your mind the offer still stands, in that case please reach out on my thread. I don’t tend to regularly read threads that I’m not active on.
All I have to say about the topic of online communication is that there are a lot of good people out there, but it only takes one person to cause problems and it is pretty common for difficulties to happen, so I can understand the reluctance to share personal contact information on a public forum. This is why I have an e-mail address that I solely use for TinyBuddha. I know it seems far-fetched, but it is more common than you might expect.
I’m sorry for intruding. You both have a beautiful friendship.
Love and best wishes to you both! ❤️🙏
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