Home→Forums→Relationships→Taking a break
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anita.
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August 18, 2024 at 9:13 pm #436357
ChauParticipantno problem, no rush
August 19, 2024 at 10:37 am #436369
anitaParticipantDear Clara:
Life has been treating me busy, thank you for asking. And you are welcome!
“she didn’t think through the breakup seriously and things just seem sloppy“- she decided to break up with you and after telling you about her decision, she expected you to leave your flat, not planning on moving out herself: that’s an astounding level of sloppy-no-thinking-through.
In relationship terms, she thinks ahead too little, and you: too much.
“There were times I found myself checking her on social media… I know there is no other way than to not (be) contacting or stalking her.. in the beginning of this week, I felt I missed her a lot and really wanted to reconnect, possibly because I knew she was back from her business trip and is back. I guess its a phase but sometime I do struggle“- the struggles of the heart, struggles of an attachment dissolving. The attachment to her is a habit, and it is difficult to break habits.
You are in the habit of having contact with her, so you want more. She returns from a business trip, and as is your (emotional) habit, you get excited about her return, and you look forward to connecting with her. The breakup info didn’t interrupt these habit yet.
From health line/ the science of habit: “Here’s how the habit loop works: 1. Cue. You experience a stimulus — a trigger. It could be being in a certain location, smelling a certain smell, seeing a certain person, or feeling a particular emotional state, among many other possibilities. 2. Craving. The stimulus causes you to desire a particular outcome that you find rewarding. It motivates you to act. 3. Response. You engage in behaviors, thoughts, or actions you take to get that outcome. 4. Reward. The outcome occurs and you feel a sense of reward as a result, satisfying your craving. The pleasure or relief you experience reinforces the cue, making the cue even better at triggering craving next time. That’s why it’s an endless loop”-
Her belongings left behind, the pillow she left on your bed have been Cues; her return from a business trip, another cue. These cues lead to a Craving to contact her, leading to Responses: stalking her on social media, sending her a birthday gift after the breakup.. fits, doesn’t it?
“I am constantly finding myself trying to move on, and wanting to connect with her“- to move on, you’d need to break the habit of having her in your life as a partner: (1) to remove all her things (cues) that are still in your flat, making your flat cue-free, and (2) to break the habit of checking on her social media activity (which provide you with more cues).
Back to the article I quoted from: “Whether you’re trying to build a new positive habit or shake an old habit you don’t like, patience is vital… Be kind to yourself as you try to break a pattern. Falling back into a habit doesn’t mean you’ve failed… Consistency will come with practice, and so will success”. End of quote.
Wishing you patience and kindness toward yourself!
anita
August 19, 2024 at 6:42 pm #436388ChauParticipantHello Anita
Good to know that you are doing well. Hope you are having a good kind of busy.
You are right about the pattern. My friend was also saying it was like detox. Some days it was better, some days it was worse.
Before she left for the trip, I was angry at her and i said she was an idiot. She did say we could talk after she came back, I was thinking to drop this. but on the weekend when I was reading something that reminded me greatly of the mistakes we have made during especially the last period of our dating, I texted her to initiate a call, she agreed to talk and we did. I told her that we have made mistakes along the way, and I appreciate and respect the space and the break that she was requesting. I was calm and collected all the way, but she cried and said the day she left, she was very hurt by what I said. I apologized for using the harsh words. She said she also understood why I did that, but she was very upset.
I ended the call in 10 mins. Was mindful not to overwhelm both of us.
Now you talk about the pattern, I guess this is the pattern. The cues got too strong and too obvious, that prompted me to do something. and after the talk I did feel a sense of relief, although I am also aware that this is not going to last long.
For the things she left behind, I put them aside for now. I am trying to block her but also found myself unblock her afterwards. I have been very ambivalent since she returned. The emotional pattern is so strong, of course in the past I would be happy and talked to her and we would be talking about her trip etc(happy hormones generated). Now I potentially am craving for that.
Clara
August 19, 2024 at 7:34 pm #436391anitaParticipantDear Clara:
“Hope you are having a good kind of busy“- thank you, I think that my Busy is becoming a Good-kind of busy!
“Before she left for the trip, I was angry at her and I said she was an idiot.. she cried and said the day she left, she was very hurt by what I said. I apologized for using the harsh words“- she said she has no feelings for you: that’s not calling you an idiot, or any kind on insulting name, but it is harsh and insulting nonetheless.
I am sorry, Clara. I wish you do heal and move on and away from her: you deserve better, you deserve love.
anita
August 19, 2024 at 8:31 pm #436392ChauParticipantHi Anita
Yes, I think what she said was harsh on me also, so as what she did.
While I put it all on the table and apologized, I just feel that she was not doing the same: to reflect or at least shows she was reflecting. May be she is, may be not, I really don’t know. It’s just hard to know when she seems avoidance and compartmentalize. and this has been the part that I suffer most, that she keeps avoiding and not facing me.
Thanks for your blessing. I know there must be some ups and downs along the way. I have expected that so I will be gentle to myself also
Have a good week
August 19, 2024 at 8:37 pm #436393anitaParticipantDear Clara: I simply didn’t think of it before, but telling a person who loved you for years: I have no feelings for you, is cruel, no matter how true it may be. No need to say it, it creates too much pain. Just don’t say it, it’s not required, it does not provide any benefit for the person who still has feelings for you.
And then saying it, and expecting you to stay out of your own home, so to accommodate the person who has NO FEELINGS for you- is preposterous!
A person who has NO FEELINGS for you does not deserve your empathy or consideration beyond giving her the opportunity to get her things back, closing all financial considerations fairly, justly, and leaving her behind to feel or not feel what she will, or not, for the people in her life.
anita
August 19, 2024 at 10:26 pm #436394ChauParticipantHi Anita,
You know I have been reading about attachment styles and it seems to me that I am anxious attachment, and she is avoidance.
She is trying all her ways to break away from me, ‘I don’t like you anymore’, ” i have no feelings for you’, while we stayed under the same roof for 4 good years, and dated for 5 years. This is cruel, not to say she choose not to work on it but walk away. She is engulfed in her own wants, that she forgets that I have spent a good 5 years taking care of her needs, may not be perfect all the time, but I truly tried my best.
All the patterns that I read about avoidance, is so similar to her. Initial rush of happy hormones when we first dated, then fear of commitment and losing her individuality etc. No wonder why we struggled while I am almost the exact opposite while I want to get close and committed!
Thanks for sharing your new insights, I can also see how this is unfair to me. I keep thinking if I have done anything wrong, and that made me pushed my boundaries. I also feel she has taken my care for granted, which made her think she could just stay in the flat, for an unknown period of time, without thinking to leave in the first place. She assumed I would give her the space, thus no backup plan whatsoever. Now i recalled my therapist said, that she was spoiled, probably by me or the lack of consequences from the people close to her. She thought the things she did was ok, may be not so good but not enough to deserve the consequences, and she was hurt by the words that I said, but not thinking about why she got those words (I still think I shouldn’t call her idiot so that’s on me)
Sigh, it suddenly occurred to me that I really did not see this person so well, may be I was blinded by the closeness as well
Chau
August 20, 2024 at 7:29 am #436397anitaParticipantDear Clara:
“it seems to me that I am anxious attachment, and she is avoidance“- yes, it seems like this to me too. I think that she avoids emotional closeness with a partner, and she avoids emotional honesty within herself. It is now my impression that she avoids confronting the truth in regard to how she feels, and therefore, she shares little or nothing about what she truly feels.
“She is trying all her ways to break away from me, ‘I don’t like you anymore’, ‘I have no feelings for you’, while we stayed under the same roof for 4 good years, and dated for 5 years. This is cruel, not to say she choose not to work on it but walk away“- like a kid in the playground, angry: I don’t like you anymore! I don’t want to play with you anymore! And walks away (or in her case, she told you to walk away: to stay elsewhere while she stays in your flat post-breakup).
“She is engulfed in her own wants, that she forgets that I have spent a good 5 years taking care of her needs, may not be perfect all the time, but I truly tried my best“- a touch of selfishness.
“I also feel she has taken my care for granted, which made her think she could just stay in the flat, for an unknown period of time, without thinking to leave in the first place. She assumed I would give her the space, thus no backup plan whatsoever… she was hurt by the words that I said, but not thinking about why she got those words (I still think I shouldn’t call her idiot so that’s on me)“- self-centered with a touch of selfishness.
“Sigh, it suddenly occurred to me that I really did not see this person so well, may be I was blinded by the closeness as well.“- let’s look at what you shared almost 6 years ago.
Oct 7, 2018: “recently got quite close with a person, we have been talking mainly on texts for a few months, and we have gone out a few times until she disclosed at some point (I would say with ambiguity at first) that she had girlfriend… I was quite shocked with that just because with our everyday conversation, she had never disclosed that she had a girlfriend… She, accordingly to her, was in a pretty distanced relationship with her partner… Anyways after hearing what she explained, I find myself baffled. It seems to make sense but not making much sense“- ambiguity, emotional dishonesty (within herself) and interpersonal dishonesty (with you). I think that you were baffled by her explanation following the disclosure because it was not a completely honest explanation.
On the next day, Oct 8, 2018, I wrote to you: “In my mind, her behavior is not a deal breaker… I understand people are afraid, uncomfortable, at times selfish and unaware, and her misleading you was not well thought of and therefore it was not devious. I would say, get to know her more as a friend… Is this friendship worth it, worth enduring your distress? Maybe yes, maybe not. I think that you will soon find out. I hope to read more from you about this friendship“- as you can see, I brought up the word selfish in regard to her almost 6 years ago. I wrote that her misleading you was not devious: I guess not, but it was selfish nonetheless. She should have told you early on, and clearly, in a straight-forward way (not with ambiguity) that she had a girlfriend. She wasn’t fair to you back then, in the beginning.
From psychology today/ the cost and benefits of emotional honesty (having her in mind): “The process requires not only a desire to be aware of and in touch with our emotions and perceptions, but a willingness to reveal and share what we are experiencing with others whom we trust to accept and honor our inner truth without judgment… Connecting to ourselves on a feeling level is, for many of us, much easier said than done, but with practice, we can learn the language of emotions…
“Living an inauthentic life also denies us the possibility of ever feeling truly loved for who we are, and consequently we inevitably find ourselves caught in a relentless quest for love that can never be satisfied or sustained. How can I trust that anyone really loves me when I haven’t shown them who I really am? So, when my partner tells me that he or she loves me, that little voice in the back of my mind says, ‘you love who you THINK I am. But if you really knew who I was, you wouldn’t love me,’…
“It’s only when we both reveal ourselves fully that the deepest, purest, most soul-nourishing love can be exchanged. The remedy for coming back to engage more fully is to first be in touch with what we are feeling and then to express, rather than repress, connect rather than protect, and reveal rather than conceal”.
Does this fit?
anita
August 20, 2024 at 8:55 pm #436423ChauParticipantHi Anita,
Thanks for the insights you shared about the attachment styles.
Yes they fit her pretty well. During our dating, I think i felt our distance, probably due to her emotional disconnection, so I cannot feel the closeness(because she couldn’t get in touch with her emotions, how could I?). It occurred to me suddenly, that she has never shared any photos of me in social media, throughout the whole 5 years. I am not obsessed with social media, but there were times when she tagged her friends in her post, but when I checked it recently, I suddenly realized she never tagged me at all.
I think that also explained why I felt quite insecure, especially when she went out with friends whom I don’t know, and why I chose not to call her even when I was in distress, because at the back of my mind, I felt she didn’t want anyone to know that she got a partner who would be worried or anxious and call her at 1am in midnight.
Some time ago(year or years ago), she began not wanting to have sex with me and this has frustrated the both of us. The more she tried, the more difficult and frustrating it was for us. She told me (and herself) that she didn’t like it, and I trusted her, and that’s the only thing i could do. I told myself indeed there were people who are really more asexual than other. Only recently, in our more heated conversations, that she revealed she actually enjoyed it, but then she has convinced herself she didn’t want it so as to preserve our relationship(aka, the problem between us is gone, if this is how she was, so no need to solve). She brainwashed herself(and me) that this was how she was, instead of admitting that she wants something but it is not working, and that there is work to be done for us). Again, her avoidant, and non-confronting behaviour, created selfishness by leading me the wrong way, not deviously, but nonetheless selfish
The pattern you described 6 years ago, still feels similar to my feelings right now. Things seem to make sense but not too much sense, and that I have a hunch that there is something wrong, there is an undercurrent. The words she said seem to be logically correct but not emotional consistent. She said she cared, but she doesn’t think what happened to me with the break up. She said she wanted a long term relationship but what she truly wanted was the passionate feeling that inevitable dies down after some years in a relationship. Saying she cared and wanted a long term relationship sound better probably, she might have convinced herself that she wanted them, than wanting flings and doesn’t want to care, which is similar to what she told me when she lost interest in sex. This explains the hunch that I am having.
It’s interesting how each day evolves into a different insight. I think she might have dropped the whole thing but I am still consistently reflecting and trying to face it. I guess that’s also the difference that we are having.
Have a great evening Anita, thanks for your help always
August 20, 2024 at 9:40 pm #436426anitaParticipantDear Clara: it’s Tues night here, late, and I’ll reply further tomorrow morning, but for now: “The words she said seem to be logically correct but not emotional consistent“- reads most true in regard to who she is: perfectly said by you. Which means, although her logic seems solid.. it is of no value when it comes to a romantic relationship..
anita
August 21, 2024 at 9:18 am #436445anitaParticipantDear Clara:
You are welcome! I feel like I am getting to know her way better than I did before because of our most recent communication. Things are making sense now: for example, why she chose to tell you “I don’t like you anymore“, and “I have no feelings for you“, as the reasons for the break and later, the breakup. When a person has no tolerance for difficult, painful, or just unpleasant feelings (can’t and won’t endure them for long), a person is not going to address and examine issues that involve difficult, painful or unpleasant feelings. And so, she didn’t address or examine any relationship issue, and instead chose to call quits on her feelings and on the relationship.
“During our dating, I think I felt our distance, probably due to her emotional disconnection, so I cannot feel the closeness (because she couldn’t get in touch with her emotions, how could I?)“- it’s like there’s a buffer zone between her and her feelings.
“It occurred to me suddenly, that she has never shared any photos of me in social media, throughout the whole 5 years..”- you shared earlier that she kept her sexual orientation a secret from work colleagues. Maybe she is ashamed of being in a same-sex relationship and tried to keep it (and you) a secret, or if not a secret (from friends) then she minimized it in her communication with them..?
“I think that also explained why I felt quite insecure,“- yes, some of her attitudes and behaviors would make anyone (who is not equally as disconnected and avoidant as her) feel anxious and insecure.
“especially when she went out with friends whom I don’t know, and why I chose not to call her even when I was in distress, because at the back of my mind, I felt she didn’t want anyone to know that she got a partner…“- there’re buffer zones between her emotions and within her social life. I think there’s shame within her, a rejection of herself.
“Some time ago (year or years ago), she began not wanting to have sex with me… She told me (and herself) that she didn’t like it… Only recently, in our more heated conversations, that she revealed she actually enjoyed it“- shame kills joy, but not completely, not all the time.
“She brainwashed herself (and me) that this was how she was, instead of admitting that she wants something but it is not working, and that there is work to be done for us“- so, instead of saying something like: I like sex, let’s work on my shame about it, she said (before admitting that she enjoyed it): I don’t like sex!
* This is similar to her saying to you I have no feelings for you, instead of saying: I have some difficult feelings about our relationship, let’s work on that!
“Again, her avoidant, and non-confronting behaviour, created selfishness by leading me the wrong way, not deviously, but nonetheless selfish“- yes.
“The pattern you described 6 years ago, still feels similar to my feelings right now… The words she said seem to be logically correct but not emotional consistent… Saying she cared and wanted a long term relationship… (then) wanting flings and doesn’t want to care“- I suppose that’s why her previous on-again, off-again relationship suited her.
She said that she cared but buffer-zoned that care; she said she wanted a long-term relationship, but buffer-zoned that want.
“It’s interesting how each day evolves into a different insight. I think she might have dropped the whole thing but I am still consistently reflecting and trying to face it. I guess that’s also the difference that we are having“- you don’t buffer zone your feelings, you are tolerating difficult feelings while reflecting and trying to get to solutions to problems.
* The breakup: is it a problem or a solution to a relationship that had an expiration date from the start?
anita
August 21, 2024 at 5:26 pm #436466ChauParticipantHello Anita
What you said was very accurate. She could not tolerate and process difficult emotions and naviagte solutions while in them. She just wants to escape from it and refuse to acknowledge that there is even a problem.
that is why i get frustrated when i realized all she thought was where she should break up and how she felt, i did not see her finding ways to solve the problem at all, it makes sense also since she lost interest in me. but on the other hand hearing her say she cares sounds very ambivalent, and i think i constantly and thinking “what?” in my head.
i think her pattern is shown through her work( burn out and quit), her interested in sex but refuse to acknowledge and call it a quit, ultimately our relationship( burn out and quit)
i even shared it during the conversation we had that day, that i felt i was mislead and i thought she didnt like sex, and i said i thought u wanted long term relationship and the falls in passionate is inevitable(that said i didnt mean we cant rebuild or evolve the relationship to another level). now it makes sense, because i really was mislead even she denied( or didnt understand about it)
the break up, yes, the expirary date may be there in the beginning already. as we said earlier, i am breaking my anxious attachment slowly and making it conscious. i think she is still stuck in her world and will inevitably repeat the pattern
August 21, 2024 at 8:14 pm #436475anitaParticipantDear Clara: I will read and reply in about 12 hours.
anita
August 22, 2024 at 1:03 pm #436505anitaParticipantDear Clara:
“She just wants to escape… I did not see her finding ways to solve the problem at all, it makes sense also since she lost interest in me“- I think that losing interest in you was her solution!
“but on the other hand hearing her say she cares sounds very ambivalent“- my feel is that she wasn’t honest when she said she cares (after losing interest in you).
“I think her pattern is shown through her work ( burn out and quit)“- her solution to problems at work (as it is to problems in a relationship) is to lose interest.. and quit.
“I am breaking my anxious attachment slowly and making it conscious. i think she is still stuck in her world and will inevitably repeat the pattern.“- she’ll repeat the pattern but you will no longer be caught in her pattern!
anitaAugust 22, 2024 at 8:53 pm #436521ChauParticipantDear Anita
This is sad. I know we are all unconsciously affected by our pattern, but I didn’t even this is so consistent in her case. Can’t help but thinking ‘what if I knew about this earlier’.
She wasn’t honest when she said she cared, probably she thought she ‘should’ care, but actually she doesn’t. She tried to convince herself to do so(just like how she brainwashed herself she wanted long term relationship). Or she cares, but she did not allow herself to do so. I am ruminating on something that has no answer, I hope she sees a therapist to find out…for her own good.
I think I have been improving and now I think in a more calm sense, I was not THAT bad in terms of insecurity. I had my anxious moments, but most of the time, especially towards the end of my relationship, I was secure etc. But may be for her, ‘not THAT bad’ was already very bad, and I consistently challenge her to face emotions, because I had emotions.
The more I think about it, the more this break up makes sense, to both of us I think
Thanks Anita, have a goodnite
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