Home→Forums→Relationships→Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships
- This topic has 593 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 2 months ago by
Helcat.
-
AuthorPosts
-
February 18, 2024 at 10:28 pm #427902
seaturtle
ParticipantDear Anita,
I can’t stop thinking about this message. I am afraid that it was my fault that the relationship didn’t work. When I first came here, our conversation began with me trying to take the blame for our relationship, I wanted it to be me that was the problem so I could fix it and make the relationship work. I thought maybe I was projecting F to N, or wondered if I was requiring too much of N and how to change that. Then it turned out that N was gaslighting and that wasn’t a relationship I could work with. My fear is I caused him to need to gaslight and I just self destructed the whole relationship and have too many needs. That he was too good for me and I will never find better.
Seaturtle
February 18, 2024 at 10:54 pm #427903seaturtle
ParticipantWhen I say more depth on his end I mean vulnerability and communicating his feelings. I wanted to connect on those levels. I feel like I tried so hard to minimize my expectations and give myself a reality check that my partner is not meant to be my everything. I tried to focus on the positives and work through it but I couldn’t get over the lack of authenticity and depth
February 18, 2024 at 11:00 pm #427904seaturtle
ParticipantIf I am the problem and I am narcissistic with too high of expectations I feel overwhelmed, that N would have been the perfect partner if I was better. And if that is true I also don’t want to be that way.
February 19, 2024 at 7:13 am #427908anita
ParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I am disturbed as well (and been thinking a lot) about a new understanding that’s just emerging in my mind, and I’ll be spending time trying to figure it out this morning, best I can and reply later. But for now, regarding your last post (submitted Sun midnight, your time?)
“If I am the problem… N would have been the perfect partner if I was better”- not likely because (1) no one is perfect, (2) in a troubled relationship, most often it’s not that there the good person on one side and the bad person on the other, there’s good and bad behaviors on both sides.
I’ll be back to you later.
anita
February 19, 2024 at 8:54 am #427915seaturtle
ParticipantDear Anita,
Yes, to answer your question it was about 11pm-midnight here that I was responding. I have had trouble falling asleep the past week, I believe it is because with my surgery recovery I can’t expend all my energy during the day since I can’t even walk very fast so I am just not tired at the end of the day. I was lying in bed wondering about our conversation and decided to read, then unlike other messages I have read beforehand, I felt I needed to respond and wanted to understand but now I will wait for further response on your part before I break down more of the message because I feel threatened by it. Not to say you’re wrong I just fear the implications and how could I be something I so badly don’t want to be? I have tried so hard to be objective with myself, and look at myself when it is uncomfortable because I don’t want to be unaware of how I impact others let alone impact others negatively.
seaturtle
February 19, 2024 at 9:57 am #427919seaturtle
ParticipantDear Anita,
Deciding to respond further because I want to face this head on to understand myself as best I can.
“I gave you the wrong answer. I was confused because I didn’t process some information about you thoroughly… therefore, amending my answer to: no, I don’t see any possibility that N and you end up back together in a healthy relationship.”
I am just wondering what this information that you re-processed about me and how that changes your analysis of me, I want to see myself through your eyes. You amended answer, that me and N could never be happy, is that because of what we spoke previously, his spider tendencies, or is it because you now believe I would be harmful to him? Why could we not possibly make a healthy relationship?
I read the following paragraph, and see the answer to what I just asked was that he could not have the deep vulnerable conversations we needed to have. But if we met again and he turned a leaf and wanted to enter these conversations with me, I could see it resulting in a healthy relationship, what do you think about that?
“heading for GREAT things (starting and publishing a book) is bringing me back to the topic of my confusion and yesterday’s study:”
What is the difference between trying to manifest good things for myself and be positive, versus too high of standards for my future. when I typed that I was inspired and trying to reprogram myself to truly believe my life is going up from here.
“You wanted him to get all your jokes and laugh.. otherwise, you felt lonely. You were jealous at his roommate, as I understand it, wanting to be the only beneficiary of N’s resources. N took it all because he was “easy going” (made possible by his daily, heavy weed use), accommodating your cravings to be treated Special, best he could, allowing you to determine where and how you spent your date nights, taking you to fancy dinners, etc. His easy-goingness and efforts to accommodate you may be the reasons why the relationship lasted so much longer than the previous 3-months limit per relationship.”
It is hard for me to believe that my feeling of loneliness was triggered so easily. It is not that he did not get some, but the majority of my little comments he did not react to. Growing up my dad used to tell me I thought backwards, he now says the same to my youngest sister. Her and I are different than most people I have met, we don’t always get simple instructions…if something is not written exactly how I am suppose to do it I often have lots of questions that the person who wrote the instructions thought should be intuitive or didn’t need to be explained. But then again, my mind works in the opposite direction as well where I put things together that others don’t, things that do make sense in my head but not to everyone else. My sister and I are both this way, in school we feel stupid but in conversation about the world or more abstract things our way of thinking is unique, I am not trying to say I am so different than others and so special, in fact my dad reminded me quite often I was not. My point is that N did not understand how I saw the world, and as much as I tried to understand how he saw the world, he did not give me the same time of day. I felt ignored quite often, I would make a comment and he literally would just not even react, and sometimes is ok but it was so often I started to literally ask if he could hear me, and he could but his mind was other places.
“(1) this is a very positive self-image/ confidence on your part, knowing that you are adorable and sexy. (2) you demanded his adoration and when he didn’t deliver it to your satisfaction, you were devasted, it was so very, very hard for you, you felt so very lonely.”
The funny thing is is don’t know if I am confident, there are days I am definitely not, then others I feel it more. I required so little of him in this way, I can recall two times in three years he said I was pretty. I tried so hard to not need more than that, and to just give it to myself, which bled out into my words as claiming I am “adorable” and “sexy.” When he didn’t deliver, yes, I was sad. But I actively practiced giving myself the compliments I needed and telling myself he didn’t owe them to me. But after so many times going out of my way to try and be pretty for him, and him not saying anything it does get to me, I wondered if I was his type or if he thought I was uniquely beautiful in any way.
“You were jealous at his roommate, as I understand it, wanting to be the only beneficiary of N’s resources.” … “you wanted to be N’s one and only person.”
This is an interesting one, I was jealous of his roommate. I was jealous that when he walked into the home while N and I were relaxing together that N’s who demeanor shifted. We went from a calm moment together to him yelling across the room about money and work and this bothered me very much. If the roommate came in and sat with us and could join a conversation with all three of us then I would have been okay with that, I know that because N has another friend, D, who I really liked and did not mind him in our space at all, he acknowledged me as a person. N’s roommate called girls gross names, talked about his sex life all the time and was very vulgar, so in general I didn’t really like him as a person. He was in the rat race, the young to middle aged men racing to the dollar bills, and I could feel that energy when he entered a room and it exhausted me. I was jealous when I would be laying in N’s bed waiting for him and he would talk all night with his roommate, yes I was jealous of that. But in my defense I tried my best to get over it, I would fall asleep cuddling my stuffed animal pretending it was hatch, and just remind her and myself it was ok.
“By 22 (before getting together with N), you had no long-term relationship experience, only 5 relationships that lasted about 3 months each.”
You are the fourth person to bring this up to me in the past week. My two friends, and mom all have brought up at one point not to beat myself up that N was my first long relationship. But all that sounds like to me is that I have more trial and error to go and that is so depressing to me. Is it too much to ask for that I find a man that wants to make me feel safe to give them my heart? N dropped my heart all over the place, being late, denying his own words and ignoring both his and my feelings.
“Re-reading your complaints about N in your 2 original posts, it’s clear that you required and demanded of him complete and ever present adoration, and when you didn’t get it, you were devastated.”
When you said I “required and demanded of him complete and ever present adoration” I am not sure how to feel about this. When I first read it I wanted to deny that I was this way, because the phrasing sounds extreme. I don’t feel my desire for my partner to admire me is as toxic as you make it sound. On one hand this makes it sound like a negative that I require my partner to adore me. When I see successful relationships that have gone the distance, a common factor is that the man adores the woman for who she is, and the woman is in awe of her man in some way as well, but both are in adoration and awe of the others best self, therefore encouraging it as well. I still don’t believe N saw me, and if he didn’t see me he had nothing to adore.
Mayo clinic: “Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance. They need and seek too much attention and want people to admire them. People with this disorder may lack the ability to understand or care about the feelings of others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence, they are not sure of their self-worth and are easily upset by the slightest criticism. A narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of life, such as relationships, work, school or financial matters. People with narcissistic personality disorder may be generally unhappy and disappointed when they’re not given the special favors or admiration that they believe they deserve. They may find their relationships troubled and unfulfilling, and other people may not enjoy being around them. Treatment for narcissistic personality disorder centers around talk therapy, also called psychotherapy…. it often begins in the teens or early adulthood..
“Symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and how severe they are can vary. People with the disorder can: * Have an unreasonably high sense of self-importance and require constant, excessive admiration. * Feel that they deserve privileges and special treatment. *Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements. * Make achievements and talents seem bigger than they are. * Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate. * Believe they are superior to others..”.
What do you think, and how do you feel about this?
–“narcissistic personality disorder may be generally unhappy and disappointed when they’re not given the special favors or admiration that they believe they deserve.” So when my roommate cried on her birthday because her boyfriend was in a bad mood all day and didn’t treat the day as special… this was narcissistic? I ask this not to accuse my roommate of anything but because I related and the same has happened to me.
-“People with this disorder may lack the ability to understand or care about the feelings of others.” I feel like I care too much if anything, about the feelings of others.
–“They may find their relationships troubled and unfulfilling” so what is the difference between actually being in an unfulfilled relationship where someone is treating you wrongly, and you just being narcissistic for believing you deserve better?
– “Treatment for narcissistic personality disorder centers around talk therapy, also called psychotherapy” no cure. What I hear is that if you are this way then you just are and you don’t deserve what you think you do, you’re delusional.
-“Make achievements and talents seem bigger than they are.” I downplay my own achievements as it is.
“What do you think, and how do you feel about this?”
I wrote most of what I think.
I feel overwhelmed. It doesn’t resonate with me that I don’t deserve more than what N was able to be for me, and I do believe my future partner will adore me, being told he may not honestly makes me question everything I ever thought about love. I feel confused, do I not know who I am at all? This whole time, since the breakup I have been trying to remind myself I did the right thing and that I deserved more than how he was treating me, and not to be told I don’t deserve anything and thinking I deserve more is being narcissistic, I just feel lost.
February 19, 2024 at 10:11 am #427920anita
ParticipantDear Seaturtle: I am reading your most recent post and typing a reply.
anita
February 19, 2024 at 12:04 pm #427925anita
ParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I am just wondering what this information that you re-processed about me and how that changes your analysis of me, I want to see myself through your eyes. You amended answer, that me and N could never be happy, is that because of what we spoke previously, his spider tendencies, or is it because you now believe I would be harmful to him? Why could we not possibly make a healthy relationship?“- I just tried to locate (for a 2nd time) a sentence you wrote some time ago that caused me alarm, like a beginning of a shift in my understanding, but I can’t find it and I am overwhelmed by the sheer amount of our posting, so much to re-read. So, I’ll try to do without re-reading:
At first, my empathy was with you for feeling UNSEEN, for growing up that way, just as it happened to me. I thought and expressed to you that your expectations of N (based on your two original posts) were unreasonable, that it was not N being responsible for you feeling unseen, that it was F’s (and your mother, in some ways) responsibility. We talked a lot about you projecting F into N.
The first shift, as I remember it, was when you described the cash and C word incidents. I then thought that the reason you complained about lesser things in regard to N’s behaviors (ex., N not getting your jokes, not his fault at all, really) was because you didn’t want to face the bigger faults in regard to N’s behaviors, or misbehaviors. This shift led to discussing N as a spider, motivated instinctually to keep you too weak so that you don’t leave his web, seeing him as a controlling person.. aka the bad guy in the relationship.
Next, you wrote (and I can’t locate it), paraphrased, that you will not get back with N unless he was not afraid to adore you 100% of the time (or just 100%, I don’t remember), and I thought: this sounds so… over the top. But I figured, maybe you were upset, and it just came out, those words, this sentiment.
You then asked if a healthy relationship with him would be possible, and I couldn’t remember what was so bad about N.. I lost the idea that N was .. the bad guy. A couple of days ago, I re-read and studied your two original posts (which you submitted before I was back to being a participant in the forums), and it occurred to me that I was wrong: N was not the controlling party in the relationship, you were: you stated it yourself, that the date nights were about what you wanted to do, etc., and you suggested that maybe you were narcissistic. Now, the narcissistic word is so overused that I didn’t pay much attention to it, and the fact that you brought it up in regard to yourself made me think that it’s almost evidence that you are not.
There was another thing, you kept saying that you are an empath, big on empathy for others, and yet, lately, I asked myself: where is it? Didn’t see it. You’ve been delightful to communicate with, and I liked you so much.. just didn’t notice empathy. For N, I don’t recall it. Or for other people.. other than your younger sister, maybe..
So, now, I am quite embarrassed for having vilified N- it was wrong of me to do so, and I don’t want to do this again, not here in your thread and not elsewhere. What I am now inclined to think (from the totality of what you shared, which I did not re-read) is that N has very low self-esteem, that he is highly addicted to weed which keeps him mellow and unreactive (the Teflon brain we discussed), that he is a people pleaser, perhaps codependent, and still, I think, not a good partner for you (for his weed use, if nothing else). And I think that you are not a good partner for him. I think that the cash and C word incidents were a couple of times when he was not able to do the Teflon thing/ to be mellow (you mentioned that at those incidents, he wasn’t on weed, if I recall correctly), so he sort of.. verbally exploded.
I know that following some therapy and hard work, you will be able to have a healthy relationship with a man who is suitable for you.
“If we met again and he (N) turned a leaf and wanted to enter these conversations with me, I could see it resulting in a healthy relationship, what do you think about that?“- I think that you need to turn a new leaf and that N should get help with his weed abuse ad wit his self-esteem and assertion skills.
“What is the difference between trying to manifest good things for myself and be positive, versus too high of standards for my future when I typed that I was inspired and trying to reprogram myself to truly believe my life is going up from here“- got to take on more humility, to be willing to be equal to others instead of superior. Start or restart your journey as a person equal to others, other people being equal (not inferior) to you.
“I am not trying to say I am so different than others and so special, in fact my dad reminded me quite often I was not“- and you tried to prove your father wrong..?
“My point is that N did not understand how I saw the world, and as much as I tried to understand how he saw the world“- how does he see the world (summarized)?
“I would make a comment and he literally would just not even react, and sometimes is ok but it was so often I started to literally ask if he could hear me, and he could but his mind was other places”– weed places.. ?
“I was jealous of his roommate. I was jealous that when he walked into the home while N and I were relaxing together, that N’s whole demeanor shifted. We went from a calm moment together to him yelling across the room about money and work… N’s roommate called girls gross names, talked about his sex life all the time and was very vulgar… I was jealous when I would be laying in N’s bed waiting for him and he would talk all night with his roommate“- maybe N is a people pleaser when it comes to dominant/ controlling people..? Or N is vulgar too (when not on weed)?.. (Who is N…?)
“N dropped my heart all over the place, being late, denying his own words and ignoring both his and my feelings“- yes, denying his words, I now remember this part.. Not cool at all. Yes, he is not,, the good guy in the relationship. Both of you messed up. But you still have your 3rd eye open, even during this difficult time. His 3rd eye may be forever closed.
“When you said I “required and demanded of him complete and ever present adoration” I am not sure how to feel about this. When I first read it I wanted to deny that I was this way, because the phrasing sounds extreme… When I see successful relationships that have gone the distance, a common factor is that the man adores the woman for who she is..”- what successful relationships have you witnessed (in real life) and did you witness these closely..?
“So when my roommate cried on her birthday because her boyfriend was in a bad mood all day and didn’t treat the day as special… this was narcissistic?“- I wouldn’t think that. but when you felt devastated by N not getting a joke.. that’s extreme.
“I feel like I care too much if anything, about the feelings of others“- when you heard that N said post breakup that he feels like dying.. I don’t remember you caring too much for his supposed suffering.. Like I wrote above, I am not in touch with you caring too much for N, for friends… We communicated so much, I don’t remember all.
“What is the difference between actually being in an unfulfilled relationship where someone is treating you wrongly, and you just being narcissistic for believing you deserve better?”- I think that both you and N treated each other wrong at one time or another (one is not the bad guy while the other is the good guy), and you both deserve better.
“What I hear is that if you are this way then you just are and you don’t deserve what you think you do, you’re delusional“- you deserved positive attention and respect as a child, you deserved to feel that you mattered, that what you needed and wanted was valid and of value. You didn’t get it then. You weren’t born with unrealistic expectations in regard to a romantic partner, the unrealistic, extreme expectations (overall, put together) were the result of a severe lack in childhood.
“I feel overwhelmed. It doesn’t resonate with me that I don’t deserve more than what N was able to be for me, and I do believe my future partner will adore me, being told he may not honestly makes me question everything I ever thought about love. I feel confused, do I not know who I am at all? This whole time, since the breakup I have been trying to remind myself I did the right thing and that I deserved more than how he was treating me, and not to be told I don’t deserve anything and thinking I deserve more is being narcissistic, I just feel lost.”-
– I boldfaced what you said I told you, but I didn’t tell you these things. I do believe that you deserve a man who is not constantly on weed, too9 mellow to have deep conversations, Teflon-ing what you say to him., etc. I am not saying that having deep, honest conversations with a romantic partner is too much for you to ask.
Please calm down best you can. I won’t be able to write more to you today. Please take a hot bath, go for a slow walk outside.. I wish you would see a counselor/ therapist. I am sorry that you are feeling lost. Here is a quote I read today and thought about you: “So self-acceptance does not mean self-admiration or even self-liking at every moment of our lives, but tolerance for all our emotions, including those that make us feel uncomfortable.”― Gabor Maté.
anita
February 19, 2024 at 2:52 pm #427937seaturtle
ParticipantDear Anita,
“The first shift, as I remember it, was when you described the cash and C word incidents. I then thought that the reason you complained about lesser things in regard to N’s behaviors (ex., N not getting your jokes, not his fault at all, really) was because you didn’t want to face the bigger faults in regard to N’s behaviors, or misbehaviors.”
I thought the same.
“This shift led to discussing N as a spider, motivated instinctually to keep you too weak so that you don’t leave his web, seeing him as a controlling person.. aka the bad guy in the relationship.”
“..it occurred to me that I was wrong: N was not the controlling party in the relationship, you were: you stated it yourself, that the date nights were about what you wanted to do, etc., and you suggested that maybe you were narcissistic.”
When the narrative shifted to N being controlling, it was not something I had thought of him before. I remember questioning that perspective of him, but I could see it in some ways. For example him being late, I did feel like this was controlling in some way, that he to a degree was purposely being late to show some sort of power dynamic. To show that he would not be controlled, he was also so anti-controlling that I did not think he would be himself. He hated to be controlled, and I witnessed him go against that grain and I felt he was doing that with me. Which is why it does make sense that perhaps I was controlling in the relationship, but I also simultaneously feared that I was. I also thought that he would not allow me to be controlling, that he was strong headed enough to point out when I was, because it was the reality check that would make me stop and look at myself. I did not want someone who just did what I wanted, because that inevitably creates resentment and I tried so hard to avoid that in the relationship by communicating with him best I could. I would ask him all the time, “is this what you want?” and he was irritated by that question. I tried to ask him how things I did made him feel and he literally did not know how to answer those questions, so I just kept doing my own thing.
Growing up feeling unseen, I learned, that if I don’t put myself out there then I didn’t deserve to be seen, why would someone see me when I said nothing. So I learned to put myself out there. By “myself,” I mean my thoughts/preferences/feelings. Just like on family trips where my dad called me selfish if the restaurant that I “preferred” was picked. I put myself out there with N best as I could, early in the relationship when I fell in love, I wanted him to understand what he was signing up for with me, who I was. I did not want a relationship where he didn’t meet all of me till later. Like my parents, they were in love, but my mom hid her past and a huge part of her, she showed it to my dad 3 years into marriage, and he told her “I never would have married you had I known this about you.” At 3 years old my parents should have divorced but they stuck it out, no favor to me witnessing them fighting all the time.
My number one fear after falling in love with N was that he would reject me at some point, so to prevent that I told him everything, all my thoughts. He did not tell me his, he did not volunteer information about himself to me, I had to pry it out of him, in “deep” conversations that “exhausted” him. Because my preferences, thoughts, and feelings, were out there, yes that impacted, or maybe even “controlled” the things we did. But I did not want it that way, I begged him to show me who he really was so that I could be there for him. But there are only so many questions I could ask him, I even bought a game for us, it was a couples game with questions to initiate a deeper understanding, he refused to bring them with us on trips, he liked them at first but as soon as the questions got more intimate he would be irritated when I brought up the cards. He rejected therapy, I wanted to go not just to understand him better, but I was willing to have that therapist say what I was doing wrong as well, but he would not go with me.
“There was another thing, you kept saying that you are an empath, big on empathy for others, and yet, lately, I asked myself: where is it?”
When I say I am an empath I say so for these reasons: 1-When I am around a deeply depressed person, happy person, or anyone in an intense emotion I can feel it too. When I step into a room I can sense what emotions are around me, and I base my friends and environment preferences on these feelings. 2-I feel peoples pain, like if I witness someone being spoken to mean, I can feel it and won’t stand for it. I can’t even watch certain movies if someone is being treated badly I can feel it too intensely.
I do thing my empathy has it’s limits though. I have always struggled to have empathy for people in situations they could get out of. For example a relationship, my friend P, I have a hard time having empathy for her because I knew that guy was bad news the first time I met him, so to me I do feel she walked right into what she got. I also think my breakup with N gave me a sense of superiority, I am realizing now and do not think this is right, but I can admit that now watching others talk about their relationships I have less empathy for them, leaving N was the hardest thing I have ever done, relationally, and if I can do it why can’t they. To me I feel like, stop complaining and leave if he is calling you bad names and treating you badly…so here I lack empathy and feel my decision making is superior..
I agree with everything you said in this paragraph:
“So, now, I am quite embarrassed for having vilified N- it was wrong of me to do so, and I don’t want to do this again, not here in your thread and not elsewhere. What I am now inclined to think (from the totality of what you shared, which I did not re-read) is that N has very low self-esteem, that he is highly addicted to weed which keeps him mellow and unreactive (the Teflon brain we discussed), that he is a people pleaser, perhaps codependent, and still, I think, not a good partner for you (for his weed use, if nothing else). And I think that you are not a good partner for him. I think that the cash and C word incidents were a couple of times when he was not able to do the Teflon thing/ to be mellow (you mentioned that at those incidents, he wasn’t on weed, if I recall correctly), so he sort of.. verbally exploded.”
-The day the narrative shifted for you majorly and you said you could not longer speak about N and I should leave that relationship, I read it with a grain of salt. Because of course, my decisions are my responsibility. I don’t think I felt as strongly as you did that N was the only villain in the relationship, but I ended it because of everything I wrote above about communication and the weed addiction that surely impacted that.
“I know that following some therapy and hard work, you will be able to have a healthy relationship with a man who is suitable for you.”
Before reading this I actually researched my insurance coverage and sent a request to a therapist in my network.
“I think that you need to turn a new leaf and that N should get help with his weed abuse ad wit his self-esteem and assertion skills.”
I agree I need to turn a new leaf, I feel rushed to do so.. I wanted to be the best me and I am finding it harder in this moment than I have before.
” got to take on more humility, to be willing to be equal to others instead of superior. Start or restart your journey as a person equal to others, other people being equal (not inferior) to you.”
I agree with this. I do not want to feel superior to others, but I do and I don’t know why. This is such a strange concept to me because if I really face myself I do think I make better decisions than many others and have more awareness than, F for one. I believe that I am special and unique but I am also insecure that I am the only one that thinks that, which is probably true.
my dad reminded me quite often I was not“- and you tried to prove your father wrong..?
-Perhaps, I have not fully considered this before.
“how does he see the world (summarized)?”
I feel N is driven by fear that he will need others. In this fear of needing others, he gives (is generous) to others in order to feel better about potentially needing them. N is a peacekeeper, he wants the people around him to get along, more than he cares about this own feelings and desires. My analysis would be that he cared SO much about what his parents felt, and wanted them to get along so badly that he ignored all of his own needs and took care of them. He grew up so far from his own feelings that he doesn’t even know what they are, and it has been so long since he thought about them that now they are all in a big scary box he is afraid to open. I think he justifies keeping that box closed by lying to himself, telling himself that it is mental strength to not let your feelings control you, which it may be but nowhere in that is the rule to not even look at them. N loves the outdoors, and doing things that FORCE him to be present with his current feelings, cause that is all the feeling he can handle at a time. He enjoys risky things that he knows he will survive, but he knows will challenge his survival. He would spend days in the mountain with his dad, climbing the mountain and then skiing down, freezing and dangerous. He loves being in survival mode, where his mind shuts up (he uses weed to have the same affect). Survival mode where all he needs to worry about is warmth and food like a caveman.
Earlier when we spoke of me being controlling, when he wanted to do survival mode things, sometimes I was into it, I love snowboarding and camping, but other times I was not in to what he wanted to do. I thought it was pointless to put ourselves in such an uncomfortable situation, so I controlled the situation so that he didn’t take me there. For example the shroom incident. He gave us way too much, at first I thought it was not his fault, he didn’t know how much either it was just a mistake. After, I thought more factually… he has done this more than 2 times before, he knew it was my first time… he knew to some degree how much we were taking, but it was his desire to be in this survival mode that made him WANT that intense situation to happen. That intense situation that he took me to, a place I did not feel safe. I bring that situation up so often because it was the first time real doubt and fear entered my mind about the relationship.
N cares deeply about the people around him and wants everyone to get along, he brings people together with his amazing cooking and his generosity that attracts others. He likes to think about conspiracy theories, as do I. He is goofy when he is comfortable, but he is not trying to be goofy. He is not a class clown, he isn’t the one trying to make others laugh, he is the one to tell someone else to tell another person the funny story so they can laugh too! He is a very hard worker, if he wants something in the sport or financial world he will go get it.
He doesn’t like losing people… he was really impacted by one of his friends leaving without a word last year, the friend was in the drug world and I think was disappointed when N didn’t want to do cocaine and just left. I don’t think I was right for N either, but he was too afraid to lose me to even consider not staying together forever. I think he would more likely compartmentalize our relationship, only speak to me certain times of the day and just keep me out of his life, then to end the relationship. That is what I saw happening between us, it is not that I wanted all of his attention or to be the only one in his life, but I was slowly becoming less of a focus and the further he got the more I felt it and asked him and he denied it.
He wanted to be close to people. He forgave before he would leave… I also think N has an addictive behavior, he over indulges in things he likes. If it felt good then he would do it, his self restraint was not strong. It was this way for our sex life, I am more into anticipation and he would not last one minute before just ripping off my clothes, a couple times more aggressively than I was comfortable with. He is also a gentle giant. N isn’t someone I felt would harm me physically, and if he ever did it was a complete accident, but he did struggle with the word no, or me telling him to stop if he was being too harsh while playful.
N puts others feelings over his own. He once told me he admired that I was not that way, that I was able to say no to things that I felt were going to drain me too much, as he did not have this self control. His need to make others happy, and my desire to make him happy I think was uncomfortable for him. I think he also tried to group me in with him, after a certain amount of time being two separate people dating, we started to become a group, him and me. Grouped together he did not like that I didn’t always want to do what would make others happy, I had to convince him that him and I needed space to talk and it didn’t matter if that hurt his roommates feelings. His roommate did not have the sense to understand and that wasn’t our fault, N’s other friend D was much more respectful of me and N also having our alone time, N’s roommate I found disrespectful and unaware, but N put up with it. So when N and I were just two independent beings dating, he admired that I took care of myself over others sometimes, but once we became closer, and I started to want him to be selfish with me, he no longer admired that trait I had. He wanted to continue to people please and I didn’t.
I think I could go on about N but I will stop because this message is starting to feel quite long.
Have a good evening Anita,
Seaturtle
February 19, 2024 at 2:57 pm #427938anita
ParticipantDear Seaturtle;
I read only a bit of your recent post, beginning, middle and end, as I am not focused and about to go on my walk, but reads like this is all a great opportunity for the two of us to open that 3rd eye wider and bigger. Will get back to you in the morning! (Also, I like you very much, and was hoping..!! that we keep communicating, so glad to receive your message!)
anita
February 19, 2024 at 3:05 pm #427939seaturtle
ParticipantDear Anita,
I am keeping this response as short as I can, after the long previous message, while still addressing your questions.
“maybe N is a people pleaser when it comes to dominant/ controlling people..? Or N is vulgar too (when not on weed)?.. (Who is N…?)”
I think N turns rebellious if he thinks he is being controlled, so therefore I don’t think he is a people pleaser when it comes to controlling/ dominant, or obviously controlling people. I wouldn’t call him a people pleaser at all I would say he likes to keep the peace between people, and does not want to scare anyone away. N is not vulgar, well… he was not in front of me. If N was vulgar, it would not be because it is how he really thought, it would be because he was trying to make the vulgar person more comfortable by mirroring their behavior.
“what successful relationships have you witnessed (in real life) and did you witness these closely..?”
Honestly, maybe one, but even them I did not analyze close enough so I am willing to conclude that my notions on what makes a successful romantic relationship work is twisted in places.
“I wouldn’t think that. but when you felt devastated by N not getting a joke.. that’s extreme.”
Before the shroom incident, this didn’t bother me. After that incident I became more analytical and dissecting of the relationship, trying to figure out what was wrong and what was right. Categorizing him not getting a joke as “wrong” was clearly extreme but that is not what created the category.
“when you heard that N said post breakup that he feels like dying.. I don’t remember you caring too much for his supposed suffering”
I did not allow myself to care about that. If I think about it too long I would cry, just like the breakup I had to handle it quickly without emotions or I would run back… to the “web.” I was afraid of running back to him, even now I am not letting my emotions surface but I can feel them trying to. Him saying he felt that way made me want to run to him, but I couldn’t so what could I do with those feelings? throw them away. Even now convincing myself he was just being dramatic… but it hurts me because I know he was sad, but after all, maybe it was just because he hates to lose people, not necessarily because he wanted me.
Seaturtle
February 19, 2024 at 3:22 pm #427940seaturtle
ParticipantDear Anita,
“Also, I like you very much, and was hoping..!! that we keep communicating, so glad to receive your message!”
I am thankful that we can communicate so honestly. I am seeking a therapist but often I feel therapists are afraid to set their patient off, so they avoid very confrontational conversations, but that is what I want and need. I don’t want someone to tell me I am always right and to set boundaries everywhere, I want to get stronger and open this third eye as wide as I can! even when it is hard.
Hope you have a lovely walk and no more freezing toes!
Seaturtle
February 19, 2024 at 4:44 pm #427943anita
ParticipantDear Courageous Seaturtle who is the bee’s knees (bee’s knees emoji)
No freezing toes today, (rainy but not cold). I hope that we both sleep well tonight!
anita
February 19, 2024 at 4:59 pm #427944seaturtle
ParticipantYour use of the phrase “the bees knees” is making me wonder about our age difference haha, I haven’t heard that in a long time. I need to make another email account so I can get yours, because I’d love to even just use my own name and share certain things that I just don’t want online.
Seaturtle
February 19, 2024 at 5:01 pm #427945seaturtle
Participant*(Laughing emoji) at the bees knees
-
AuthorPosts