fbpx
Menu

Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships

HomeForumsRelationshipsTelling the difference between gut and fear in relationships

New Reply
Viewing 15 posts - 406 through 420 (of 448 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #427763
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

     

    “this makes me think fondly of a saying I came up with.. all by myself (proud of it): sometimes (often, really) Family is just another F word.”

    haha this is funny and true. It reminds me of when I came home from my trip abroad from Argentina, I was already at my peak of overwhelm, just trying to process everything that I experienced and also the amount of family that wanted to see me when I just wanted to go rest. And it was this moment my mom revealed to me that she had slept that that guy a year ago that was suppose to meet me for a date… family really has the power to bring you higher or lower and why they choose lower, I have no idea, and hope I do not do that to them..

     “by “so many people”, you mean your family members? If so, consider that families are quickly to label individuals within as this or that, and the label persists within the family, and so, individuals are discouraged from growing and becoming more than a label.”

    Yes I do just mean family. I remember even N appreciating my independent present moments to myself and they don’t seem to bother my friends as they are often the same way. My dad feeds of of pointing this out on me. When on vacations and there is an option of two places to eat, if I prefer one, I will speak up, but I don’t complain to do the other. It is just often my siblings don’t really express what they want, so they don’t get it, then I do because I expressed it, then they call me selfish. Once on vacation, my little sister was hungry, so I texted the family group chat if we could make a reservation, my dad said ok and we all met up. Once we made it there, my little sister decided she only wanted ice cream…haha but me and my other sister ordered a meal. In that moment, that my sister ordered ice cream and I ordered a meal my dad accused me, infront of everyone “wow you are so selfish you just organized this whole reservation and all of us meeting so you could eat dinner?” I literally before I could defend myself, feeling so just not seen at all, the reason I began the reservation process was because my little sister was too afraid to ask my dad for something so I did it for her. My sisters did have my back and say “no we were all hungry” but my dad did not let it go. Later I said that I did not like how he accused me of something I did not do, and was not, and his response “I didn’t make you feel anything other peoples words don’t make you do anything, your interpretation is why you feel.” my sister and I looked at eachother like what did he just say?? reminds me of N’s exact words.

    Seaturtle who wants to hide in her shell“- she is too magnificent to hide in her shell for long!

    -Thank you for the smile 🙂

    “but never humbly, as in saying: you are right, Seaturtle. I was wrong… unless his PR agent thinks it will serve him well to fake the latter approach, is what I am thinking.”

    Exactly, yes literally his “PR agent,” that is funny! What I find interesting is that I am getting more skilled at spotting his PR self, versus his authentic self, and when I confront him he sort of glitches… changes the topic to one he sounds smart it or you know when someone looks up with their eyes…calculating.

    “– I guess he was very flattered by what you said and rewarded you for flattering him (this is in line with his PR agent’s policy). Do you mean that when you lived with him, you used to flatter him but he did not respond similarly to the above?”

    I mean like I would do or say something to flatter him, I had to do this in order to get him to send me my tuition money for college… I had to show appreciation how he wanted it and I knew I was playing the game to get what I needed but I didn’t care. I preferred an authentic relationship but he was the one that didn’t want it so I played his game. But he wouldn’t respond love bomby then, he responded much more mild with a simple I love you or thank you/ your welcome. Now that I don’t rely on him financially it is like he is more exaggerating his appreciation of my flattery. Maybe because it means more since he knows that I don’t need to do it to get tuition or anything from him… I did always suspect our relationship would be slightly better once I didn’t need him for things because it was the needing of him that he wanted but also didn’t like…like he wants me to need him but he also thought I was using him. This is similar to N! they are flattered when I need them, but they also feel taken advantage of when I need them…

    “your posts did not bring me down because I know that even when you are going through a difficult time, you are resourceful and your 3rd eye chakra is open….the Seaturtle who wanted to hide in her shell in the closing of your first post today, was out of her shell, curious to see/ learn new things only 18 minutes later..”

    Thank you for pointing this out. I wonder why I feel the need to make sure I don’t bring someone down, maybe it is because of what I wrote above, how my mom has done that to me and I know how it feels.

    Seaturtle

    #427766
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    I am looking forward to replying to you when I am bright eyed and bushy tailed, hoping this would be my condition tomorrow morning. Continue to heal and recover this afternoon, evening and night!

    anita

    #427776
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I am finding myself wondering why I was attracted to N, or understand why I still may be. So that when I go to get my things I am aware of what attracted me in the first place and be cautious of it showing up again. Do you think he was narcissistic? Today my roommates boyfriend played a similar game that reminded me of N. It is her birthday today and he did not message her this morning, forcing her to let him know she was awake, to which he responded happy birthday then took two hours to call her. Once he finally did he made it known he was playing video games before calling her and cut the call short and said he had to make dinner. When she came out it was the shortest phone call they’d had since him being away at a basketball tournament. She said on the phone he was in a bad mood, just down and sad and she didn’t appreciate him not putting effort into being happy for her birthday, she said he brought her down and she was so disappointed she had expectations, said she felt stupid and didn’t even realize that she did have expectations but she hated that he had power over her and was disappointing. It was sad to hear and also incredibly relatable. I had this power dynamic with N and it was emotional torture. Why do we withstand this and also why do they do it? I know people are complex but this is such a similar behavior and reaction it caused in both her and I.

    good evening and good night Anita!

    curious Seaturtle

    #427796
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    And it was this moment my mom revealed to me that she had slept that that guy a year ago that was suppose to meet me for a date..“- this is giving my saying a literal meaning (a blushing and sad face emoji

    Family really has the power to bring you higher or lower and why they choose lower, I have no idea“- so to bring themselves higher. In the above example, I am guessing that your mother told you because she was afraid at the time that someone else will tell you, she felt anxious about it, and so to feel better herself, to feel calmer, she told you. The result: she felt calmer (higher) and you felt somewhat distressed (lower), I imagine.

    “and hope I do not do that to them..“- keep your 3rd eye chakra open and your crown chakra working (with approved breaks and sleep time, of course), and you will continue to not elevate/ help yourself by lowering/ hurting them.

     “Once on vacation, my little sister was hungry, so I texted the family group chat if we could make a reservation, my dad said ok and we all met up. Once we made it there, my little sister decided she only wanted ice cream…haha but me and my other sister ordered a meal… my dad accused me, in front of everyone ‘wow you are so selfish you just organized this whole reservation and all of us meeting so you could eat dinner?‘… Later I said that I did not like how he accused me of something I did not do, and was not, and his response ‘I didn’t make you feel anything other peoples words don’t make you do anything, your interpretation is why you feel.‘ My sister and I looked at each other like what did he just say?? reminds me of N’s exact words“- a moment before in read that it reminds you of N’s words, I thought to myself: sounds just like what N said.

    As far as the what-did-he-just-say, I figure he said to himself (in a condensed way, not actually articulating all these words in his mind): she (Seaturtle) accused me of something I did (of accusing her of something she didn’t do), and so to Win this particular argument (and I am good at winning arguments!), let me look at my Strategies to Win Arguments when Winning is ALL that Matters (SWAWAM) document.. hmmm.. can’t use #1 in this case… #2.. no, doesn’t fit.. #3 seems fitting: tell her that how she feels about what I said has nothing to do with what I said, but with her WRONG interpretation of what I said.

    Exactly, yes literally his ‘PR agent,’ that is funny! What I find interesting is that I am getting more skilled at spotting his PR self, versus his authentic self, and when I confront him he sort of glitches… looks up with their eyes…calculating“- looking at his SWAWAM doc. His authentic self (at this point, he wasn’t born this way) is one who cares about Winning at all costs (to the Loser), one who cares about Power at the expense of Justice.

    I mean like I would do or say something to flatter him, I had to do this in order to get him to send me my tuition money for college.. I had to show appreciation how he wanted it… he wouldn’t respond love bomby then, he responded much more mild with a simple I love you or thank you/ you’re welcome. Now that I don’t rely on him financially it is like he is more exaggerating his appreciation of my flattery“- when you lived with him, and needed his money, he didn’t want to encourage you to ask for more money by being love-bomby with you. Now that you don’t live with him and do not ask him for money, he .. is encouraging you to continue to not ask him for money.

    The words of exaggerated appreciation do not cost him money, and in one of his docs, it says: words do not cost you money and are so easy to say, so if they serve you, say them.

    It was the needing of him that he wanted but also didn’t like.. like he wants me to need him but he also thought I was using him. This is similar to N! they are flattered when I need them, but they also feel taken advantage of when I need them“- F wants you to need him and he wants to pay the least for that which he wants, similarly to him wanting to buy a particular house but negotiating so to pay the least for it.

    Thank you for pointing this out. I wonder why I feel the need to make sure I don’t bring someone down, maybe it is because of what I wrote above, how my mom has done that to me and I know how it feels“- you are welcome. I think that the reason you didn’t want to bring me down/ don’t want to bring others down is because of your Empathy/ open heart chakra.

    I am finding myself wondering why I was attracted to N, or understand why I still may be. So that when I go to get my things I am aware of what attracted me in the first place and be cautious of it showing up again. Do you think he was narcissistic? Today my roommates boyfriend played a similar game that reminded me of N. It is her birthday today and he did not message her this morning… she hated that he had power over her and was disappointing. It was sad to hear and also incredibly relatable. I had this power dynamic with N and it was emotional torture. Why do we withstand this and also why do they do it? I know people are complex but this is such a similar behavior and reaction it caused in both her and I“-

    – People with a conscience are complex, people who care about doing what’s right and just, and in that caring, they struggle with getting their needs and wants satisfied, many struggle to identify what they need and want.

    People without much conscience, people who are not concerned with doing what’s right and just for others (the SWAWAM/ Spider/ Narcissistic People) are not complex at all, just like spiders who are solitary animals, not social animals. If you see complexity in them it’s either your own complexity erroneously projected into them, and/ or you see a leftover bit of authenticity here and there, a leftover from the time before they moved away from their social-animal part, the part that cares to share power with others and have Win-Win interactions and relationships.

    If you are attracted to N because he is a SWAWAM/ Spider Person, it may be because like everyone, you are attracted to Power. Thing is, are you also attracted to what being a social animal is about: the honest caring for another, the sharing of power for each other’s benefit?

    anita

    #427797
    anita
    Participant

    Let’s see if I can change the format of the above:

    Dear Seaturtle:

    And it was this moment my mom revealed to me that she had slept that that guy a year ago that was suppose to meet me for a date..“- this is giving my saying a literal meaning (a blushing and sad face emoji

    Family really has the power to bring you higher or lower and why they choose lower, I have no idea“- so to bring themselves higher. In the above example, I am guessing that your mother told you because she was afraid at the time that someone else will tell you, she felt anxious about it, and so to feel better herself, to feel calmer, she told you. The result: she felt calmer (higher) and you felt somewhat distressed (lower), I imagine.

    “and hope I do not do that to them..“- keep your 3rd eye chakra open and your crown chakra working (with approved breaks and sleep time, of course), and you will continue to not elevate/ help yourself by lowering/ hurting them.

     “Once on vacation, my little sister was hungry, so I texted the family group chat if we could make a reservation, my dad said ok and we all met up. Once we made it there, my little sister decided she only wanted ice cream…haha but me and my other sister ordered a meal… my dad accused me, in front of everyone ‘wow you are so selfish you just organized this whole reservation and all of us meeting so you could eat dinner?‘… Later I said that I did not like how he accused me of something I did not do, and was not, and his response ‘I didn’t make you feel anything other peoples words don’t make you do anything, your interpretation is why you feel.‘ My sister and I looked at each other like what did he just say?? reminds me of N’s exact words“- a moment before in read that it reminds you of N’s words, I thought to myself: sounds just like what N said.

    As far as the what-did-he-just-say, I figure he said to himself (in a condensed way, not actually articulating all these words in his mind): she (Seaturtle) accused me of something I did (of accusing her of something she didn’t do), and so to Win this particular argument (and I am good at winning arguments!), let me look at my Strategies to Win Arguments when Winning is ALL that Matters (SWAWAM) document.. hmmm.. can’t use #1 in this case… #2.. no, doesn’t fit.. #3 seems fitting: tell her that how she feels about what I said has nothing to do with what I said, but with her WRONG interpretation of what I said.

    Exactly, yes literally his ‘PR agent,’ that is funny! What I find interesting is that I am getting more skilled at spotting his PR self, versus his authentic self, and when I confront him he sort of glitches… looks up with their eyes…calculating“- looking at his SWAWAM doc. His authentic self (at this point, he wasn’t born this way) is one who cares about Winning at all costs (to the Loser), one who cares about Power at the expense of Justice.

    I mean like I would do or say something to flatter him, I had to do this in order to get him to send me my tuition money for college.. I had to show appreciation how he wanted it… he wouldn’t respond love bomby then, he responded much more mild with a simple I love you or thank you/ you’re welcome. Now that I don’t rely on him financially it is like he is more exaggerating his appreciation of my flattery“- when you lived with him, and needed his money, he didn’t want to encourage you to ask for more money by being love-bomby with you. Now that you don’t live with him and do not ask him for money, he .. is encouraging you to continue to not ask him for money.

    The words of exaggerated appreciation do not cost him money, and in one of his docs, it says: words do not cost you money and are so easy to say, so if they serve you, say them.

    It was the needing of him that he wanted but also didn’t like.. like he wants me to need him but he also thought I was using him. This is similar to N! they are flattered when I need them, but they also feel taken advantage of when I need them“- F wants you to need him and he wants to pay the least for that which he wants, similarly to him wanting to buy a particular house but negotiating so to pay the least for it.

    Thank you for pointing this out. I wonder why I feel the need to make sure I don’t bring someone down, maybe it is because of what I wrote above, how my mom has done that to me and I know how it feels“- you are welcome. I think that the reason you didn’t want to bring me down/ don’t want to bring others down is because of your Empathy/ open heart chakra.

    I am finding myself wondering why I was attracted to Nor understand why I still may be. So that when I go to get my things I am aware of what attracted me in the first place and be cautious of it showing up again. Do you think he was narcissistic? Today my roommates boyfriend played a similar game that reminded me of N. It is her birthday today and he did not message her this morning… she hated that he had power over her and was disappointing. It was sad to hear and also incredibly relatable. I had this power dynamic with N and it was emotional torture. Why do we withstand this and also why do they do it? I know people are complex but this is such a similar behavior and reaction it caused in both her and I“-

    – People with a conscience are complex, people who care about doing what’s right and just, and in that caring, they struggle with getting their needs and wants satisfied, many struggle to identify what they need and want.

    People without much conscience, people who are not concerned with doing what’s right and just for others (the SWAWAM/ Spider/ Narcissistic People) are not complex at all, just like spiders who are solitary animals, not social animals. If you see complexity in them it’s either your own complexity erroneously projected into them, and/ or you see a leftover bit of authenticity here and there, a leftover from the time before they moved away from their social-animal part, the part that cares to share power with others and have Win-Win interactions and relationships.

    If you are attracted to N because he is a SWAWAM/ Spider Person, it may be because like everyone, you are attracted to Power. Thing is, are you also attracted to what being a social animal is about: the honest caring for another, the sharing of power for each other’s benefit?

    anita

    #427825
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    “The result: she felt calmer (higher) and you felt somewhat distressed (lower)”

    Sometimes I wonder how many of this type of conversation I should have with someone before I distance myself from someone. Like what is the right balance in a relationship/friendship where the conversations brings you lower or higher. I suppose it just has to do with how it feels to me, but I am definitely sensitive to people bringing me lower and tend to avoid those people, what is conflicting is when it is a close friend. For example my friend P, the one in the destructive relationship, it is finally over but they still live together and he says nasty things to her and she stoops to his level in arguments, then she comes and tells me about it and I just do not want to hear it, but then I feel like I am being a bad friend.

    “As far as the what-did-he-just-say, I figure he said to himself… ..#3 seems fitting: tell her that how she feels about what I said has nothing to do with what I said, but with her WRONG interpretation of what I said.”

    Everything you wrote in this paragraph is so insightful to his mental state, I wish he would change this winning mentality and allow himself to be authentic and actually receive love.

    “His authentic self..is one who cares about Winning at all costs…, one who cares about Power at the expense of Justice.”

    And this authentic self is created by his upbrining?

    “he .. is encouraging you to continue to not ask him for money.”

    If he has so much, why is it so hard for him to help me financially do you think?

    ” F wants you to need him and he wants to pay the least for that which he wants,”

    This is so interesting, just the other day I was telling M about my financial situation with my medical absence from work, she asked “won’t your dad be able to help you?” and I responded “I have already used my “ask” for the year I can’t ask for more.” So before hearing this in words that “he wants to pay the least for that which he wants,” it’s like I already knew there was some limit, the way he makes me feel like I can’t ask. Even though when we ended our conversation about my surgery, he said “let me know if you need anything,” yet he doesn’t really mean this… but an argument that we may have had in the past could have been me saying “I needed your help then” and he responds “Yea I offered it to you.” I gives so much subtext and when I read it back to him he refuses it.

    “People with a conscience are complex…they struggle with getting their needs and wants satisfied, many struggle to identify what they need and want.”

    “People without much conscience, people who are not concerned with doing what’s right and just for others..are not complex… If you see complexity in them it’s either your own complexity erroneously projected into them, and/ or you see a leftover bit of authenticity here and there, a leftover from the time before they moved away from their social-animal part, the part that cares to share power with others and have Win-Win interactions and relationships.”

    To be honest I think I might be stuck in whether to categorize N as with or without a conscience. His roommate living with him, he often loaned him money, they covered for eachother. They often talked about this future they wanted with power and money, but I also felt the roommate was more consumed by power than N, N wasn’t the type that felt he needed to assert dominance, like his roommate or F. N was almost over0giving to people, he offered his friend in a bad situation to come live at his two bedroom house where he already had a roommate. N was humble in situations he lost, he was sad and wanted to do better, more human with a conscience to me. If no conscience people can’t share power and have a win-win, then that is not N, he literally wanted to get a huge house and have all his and my friends live in it to build community and money. This wasn’t something that intrigued me, I just wanted a real relationship with closeness to him, something that made him uncomfortable but at times he revealed he needed. Which is why I can’t help but think he is more of a conscious person that “struggle(s) with getting (his) needs and wants satisfied” and that he may be part of the “many struggle to identify what they need and want”

    Seaturtle

    #427826
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    What is the right balance in a relationship/friendship where the conversations brings you lower or higher… For example my friend P, the one in the destructive relationship… then she comes and tells me about it and I just do not want to hear it, but then I feel like I am being a bad friend“- when she tells you about him and you notice that you are feeling low as a result, give her five minutes to vent, say something empathetic to her, and change the subject. If she resists the change of subject, politely excuse yourself from the phone, or from the visit with her.

    “And this authentic self is created by his upbringing?“- created by his reactions to his upbringing, and anyone in his place, given his exact upbringing (and the genetics he was born with), would have reacted identically, as a child.

    “If he has so much, why is it so hard for him to help me financially do you think?“- I am guessing that he amassed his financial fortune by not giving money to others, or by giving as little as he could get away with and still keep a positive public image.

    “Just the other day I was telling M about my financial situation with my medical absence from work… but an argument that we may have had in the past could have been me saying ‘I needed your help then’ and he responds ‘Yea I offered it to you.’“- he is trying to minimize his accounts payable(money going out) and keep his public image positive with his daughter.. for him, you are one of the public out there, makes sense in light of how superficial your youngest sister (and you) said about the relationship with him.

    (I will read and reply to the rest later, in a few hours from now).

    anita

    #427827
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Do you think there is any possibility that N and I end up back together in a healthy relationship? Am I being unrealistic to wonder if it is possible for him to take responsibility, apologize and grow with me? I just hate being reminded of his positive attributes and that I have to go look for that again, dating sounds terrible but I want somebody, and I want parts of him. Whenever I would make a little wish on a birthday candle, fortune cookie or when he’d blow my eyelash away, I would wish that he was my soulmate, I so badly wanted it to be him and seems I still do. Is this 100% wishful thinking? I have been so patient in waiting for the right moment to get my things, the last chance I might have to talk to him, I want to do it right now, but some part of me I think is hoping this patience is for a reason and will be rewarding…

    Seaturtle

    #427828
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    To be honest I think I might be stuck in whether to categorize N as with or without a conscience…“- when I wrote about people without conscience, I wasn’t thinking about N. I remember early on that you shared that he cares about people, and that got stuck in my mind, and what you shared today about him fits with him being an okay+ guy a lot of the time. His instinctual spider behavior comes up, I think, when he is particularly stressed (like during the cash incident) and when confronted (like during the C word incident).

    “I can’t help but think he is more of a conscious person that ‘struggle(s) with getting (his) needs and wants satisfied’ and that he may be part of the ‘many struggle to identify what they need and want’….Do you think there is any possibility that N and I end up back together in a healthy relationship? Am I being unrealistic to wonder if it is possible for him to take responsibility, apologize and grow with me? I just hate being reminded of his positive attributes and that I have to go look for that again..”-

    – I think that there is a possibility that you and N can be in a healthy relationship if (1) the two of you want to get back together, (2) you accept him just as he is, third eye and crown chakras as they are; if you don’t try to change him, or get him to want to change; if you don’t try to make him see you any more than he does, and if you focus on his positive attributes, and get your being-seen needs, humor needs etc., with other people, in non-romantic relationships, (3) you don’t ask him to apologize for anything that happened pre-breakup. If he initiates an apology, fine; if you tell him to apologize for X or Y.. then his apology would be pointless, meant to pacify you, that’s all.

    Look at your original posts on both of your threads: you’d need to accept with no more complaints everything that you complained about him in those posts.

    Whenever I would make a little wish on a birthday candle, fortune cookie or when he’d blow my eyelash away, I would wish that he was my soulmate, I so badly wanted it to be him and seems I still do. Is this 100% wishful thinking?“- I think so, that it’s a romantic, wishful thinking.

    I have been so patient in waiting for the right moment to get my things, the last chance I might have to talk to him, I want to do it right now, but some part of me I think is hoping this patience is for a reason and will be rewarding“- I don’t know, Seaturtle. How about you re-reading the two original posts I mentioned, the things that bothered you about him so much and for so long: can you accept those things with equanimity, with peace of mind, putting out ZERO efforts to change him and/ or to motivate him to change?

    anita

    #427842
    Pradeep Bhanot
    Participant

    Telling the difference between gut feelings and fear in relationships can be challenging but crucial for making sound decisions. Gut feelings often stem from intuition and a deep, subconscious understanding of a situation, while fear typically arises from past experiences, insecurities, or anxieties.

    To discern between the two, it’s essential to pay attention to the source and nature of your feelings. Gut feelings tend to be calm and steady, providing a sense of clarity and confidence. They often arise without a clear logical explanation but are based on a subtle understanding of the dynamics at play.

    On the other hand, fear in relationships often manifests as a sense of unease, doubt, or worry. It may be triggered by past traumas, insecurities, or negative beliefs about oneself or the relationship. Fear-based emotions can be more intense and may lead to irrational thoughts or actions.

    Reflecting on the underlying reasons for your feelings can also help distinguish between gut instincts and fear. Ask yourself whether your emotions are based on objective observations and intuitive insights, or if they stem from past hurts or negative thought patterns.

    Additionally, consider seeking perspective from trusted friends or a therapist who can offer unbiased insight into your feelings and help you navigate them effectively.

    Ultimately, learning to differentiate between gut feelings and fear requires self-awareness, introspection, and a willingness to trust your intuition while also acknowledging and addressing any underlying fears or insecurities that may be influencing your perceptions.

    Pradeep Bhanot (Maitreya) - Author, Entrepreneur & Philanthropist

    #427866
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    I hope you are well. I want to elaborate on my answer to your question “Do you think there is any possibility that N and I end up back together in a healthy relationship?“- my answer still is that a healthy relationship between the two of you is possible, but what do I mean by “healthy relationship” (it may not mean the same as what you mean by it)?

    What I mean by a healthy relationship is a fair relationship which works for you and for him, a win-win prospect. Clearly N cannot make you perfectly happy, but no man can. Clearly, he cannot be everything that you need and want.. but again, no man can be. There needs to be clarity in your mind about what you will compromise about when choosing a lifetime partner, and what you will not compromise.

    It cannot be a healthy relationship if you feel superior to him. You have to feel that he is as worthy of you as you are worthy of him, and that while his strengths are different from yours, his strengths are as valuable as yours.

    We talked at length about his closed 3rd eye chakra and your open 3rd eye, but it’s not this simple: in some ways, your 3rd eye is a bit closed (as is mine). For example, in regard to the topic of money and the relationship with N,  your 3rd eye is not open, I think, or I suspect, I should say.

    Looking back at the cash incident, clearly, he felt that you were taking financial advantage of him, and you expressed- at length- that maybe you did take financial advantage of him and you felt guilty about it. When I suggested that you arrange to (some day, when you are able), to pay him what you think you owe him, so to relieve your guilt, you didn’t respond at all to my suggestion (as far as I remember) and never mentioned the topic again.

    You shared that he worked very hard for his father for little pay and that he worked hard for his money in general. You moved in with him while you were employed, with the understanding that you will be his roommate (and girlfriend) and pay into the rent. You then quit your job, with his emotional support, and didn’t pay into the rent for a year or so (?) It reads like N is financially generous and (?) spent a lot of money on restaurants and entertainment with you.. while working very hard for his money…? If this has been the case, I can understand him feeling taken advantage of, financially.

    There may be something here that he is seeing, but you do not…?

    A topic that I didn’t think about when I answered you earlier, is his daily, heavy duty use of weed, something for you to consider as something you may not want to compromise about…?

    anita

     

    #427878
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    It has been a couple days, the fact part of me questions if a relationship with N could still work, I have not let it go completely. However, this in-between, not knowing if he is right for me is the same feeling I had when I was in the relationship. I guess I wonder if there will ever be a relationship I feel confident in, confident that I am growing in and being treated right, as well as being what they need in a partner.

    N is hard for me to let go because of the good, and yes because of the guilt I feel for taking financial advantage. The way I looked at it, and we talked about, was that in a relationship sometimes one person needs the other for a time and then it switches, I felt like I was in a time needing financial support but I also expressed I would not always be there and I was trying to find my way out. Currently in my life I am already getting out and getting to a place of saving for a future home, a place I wish N got to watch me get to. I just feel like he lost trust and respect in some of my abilities, but not just that, he did not communicate it with me. Instead he was passive aggressive, then I questioned the passive aggression and he denied it…So to me yes my third eye was possibly closed when it came to money, but he did not help the situation. He would let me in on his finances so slightly, then tell me one day he can’t afford the mortgage and I thought what? you work so much how is this? he let things get so far and I had no idea what was actually going on, so yes third eye closed there. He certainly was able to see things that I wasn’t, but he didn’t talk to me, that was the difference between him and I. If I saw something I tried to help him see it too, if I didn’t see something he just blamed me saying I didn’t listen… But all I can say is I was doing my best to listen, when he said that I just felt like it was an excuse because I could not recall him trying very hard to get me to understand something, a burden I took on, trying so hard to explain and communicate with him but he couldn’t do the same.

    “What I mean by a healthy relationship is a fair relationship which works for you and for him, a win-win prospect.”

    Thinking about it working between N and I satisfies some feelings I am having right now. I feel lonely, having a partner is so nice because you can share your thoughts with them and they can understand your perspective of things. It satisfies my feeling of overwhelm that I have to find someone else, not only someone else but someone else that I now have higher standards for, because of my new awareness as to what I want in a relationship. N was not in touch with his feelings, if this issue was fixed then I would regret my decision of not being with him. Although there is also the fact of having more laughter in the relationship, something that wasn’t worth breaking up with someone, but now that I have a fresh start to find someone and not compromise there.

    I feel like there is definitely someone out there better suited to me than N, I wish I could get rid of the pull to N altogether, but I think it is just love that makes it really hard for me, harder than I thought. He just lacked an emotional maturity and depth that was never going to work for someone life me, who is so curious about the world and is fed by the depth it brings. He said it, he was exhausted by depth… that right there could have been enough to end the relationship but I really loved him so I stayed and tried to sacrifice those things but I don’t think they are compromiseable for me. I just miss him and I wish I didn’t.

    “When I suggested that you arrange to (some day, when you are able), to pay him what you think you owe him”

    I have certainly thought about this a lot since you mentioned it. It would be a while longer before I can do this responsibly and not leave myself in a financially vulnerable place, but I could see myself doing this in the future. If it felt like it would help anything at that point.

    “It reads like N is financially generous and (?) spent a lot of money on restaurants and entertainment with you.. while working very hard for his money…? If this has been the case, I can understand him feeling taken advantage of, financially.”

    Me too, and something I would have done differently if I could go back now. But I have thought about this a lot and this is what I come up with… I question why didn’t I just get a part time job? I did apply to a few and didn’t hear back, but I also didn’t really want a job yet because I was on unemployment and I didn’t want that to stop. I was able to buy groceries for the house and N said that was enough for the time being, but I don’t think it really was, in retrospect I think he was just saying that. I wanted to find some place that was meant for me and I really was struggling to find that, I was discouraged and ended up doing lots of art. As soon as unemployment ended I got a job at an art gallery, one I tried to get before but had no response. The art gallery paid nearly the same as unemployment, the owner promised good commission and it was not true, I never made the commission he promised, and therefore my lack of spending money went on. I wanted to give the gallery a fair shot, and AZ summers aren’t good for sales anyways so I thought it was temporary, but holidays came and still barely any sales.

    Throughout all that time of going through my search for what I was meant to do N didn’t understand what I was looking for in life, he would recommend these jobs but they weren’t where I wanted to be, I didn’t want to be at another job that barely makes enough money to save and I am just wasting my time for a year. I had money saved up and a very reliable care that I could have sold for 20k, but my dad took everything from me. I graduated college, moved to AZ and my car was stolen, 20k in insurance money my dad claimed to himself, gave me nothing and said good luck. I had paid thousands on the car and had over a thousand worth of items packed in the car for my trip, but since he paid for my insurance while I was in college (something he offered) he undoubtedly thought the insurance money was all his. With this heartless act on my dads part, I moved to AZ with nothing. I would never have moved if this happened before, but it was days before our move and N already purchased a home in AZ so I felt stuck. It was way harder to get back on my feet from that loss, then I thought it would be. I thought N was sympathetic to this, but I don’t think he truly understood how depressed mentally and financially my dad had caused me to be. The only clear voice I received while living with N was to move out of there, after a couple months I heard this voice, but I thought it was fear so I ignored it. It got louder, so I did. There were moments N and I thought we were eachothers whole future, but I also didn’t like the visions I had of us in the future. I wanted to talk more about our visions but all he had was what he wanted for himself, not “us.” I had a hard time visualizing my place in his future. I wanted to talk about things like this but I felt shut down by him, he didn’t want to talk about “serious” things and just wanted to have fun. And we did have fun together and I miss that.

    I guess my life has gotten serious all the sudden, so much real life happening, my surgery, bills, my job change this year, and I just wish I had my friend here with me. But I still don’t see a romantic future because he did not want to have the deep real conversations we needed to align ourselves and our future. I feel like needs a simpler girl, that requires less conversation and is more willing to go along with his plans.

    He also needs someone who is riskier than me, his riskiness stressed me out. With is little nephew he was so rough and it scared me. We went swimming at a watering hole and I had this bathing suit on that I knew he liked, I asked him if he thought it was sexy and his response was “I think if you did a flip off that ledge it would be sexy.” something that had absolutely no interest to me… you want me to walk barefoot up that jagged rock and flip off into that rocky water? no. He did not appreciate that I am a more delicate woman type, I am adventurous yes I love to explore, and I would even sky dive, but I just didn’t want to do the injury prone things he did like mountain biking and flipping off ledges. When I didn’t do those things I didn’t feel desired by him. This is helping me remember why him and I just aren’t suited in too many ways. He made a good friend but not a good romantic partner.

    And yes, the weed is something I don’t want to compromise. I think it can be fun recreationally, but not nightly, especially since it only distanced him MORE from his real feelings. He had a false sense of feeling after he smoked, like when someone apologizes after they’ve been drinking and it just doesn’t mean much.

    Living in that home was not healthy for me. And the person I live with should be.. When I communicated my feelings he fed off my tears then did it again and again. We had a good friendship but not healthy romantic. I wonder if a friendship with him would be healthy or possible, and if our sexual compatibility would be interruptive or a part of the friendship. But overall, I want to grow, and if that relationship with him would keep be stunted then it would not be worth it. I am happier out of the relationship! and that should be the bottom line. I have left the emotional roller coaster, I truly have, I was on a huge one and I truly feel I have exited. I miss the highs of that roller coaster, but not the lows. I deserve a steadier roller coaster. I honestly did my best in that relationship, I was willing to own up to my faults, he was not (soberly anyways).

    I am going to start writing a book. I feel like I am at such an interesting time in my life where I am heading for great things and how cool would it be to write a book about how my life is and is going and get to record the good things as they happen. I know a better partner is out there for me and perhaps I will write my book right into him, but first after finding my confidence being out of the relationship with N. I need to move on and I need to get my passport. It is sunny outside and I am missing it worrying that N is the best thing I will ever be offered in life but that is a lie.

    Seaturtle…swimming

    #427881
    anita
    Participant

    Dear swimming Seaturtle:

    I read just a few words from your recent post, and will read all and reply Sun morning, but for now, in regard to “I know a better partner is out there for me”, I have no doubt (it’s my gut/ intuition talking) that you should let N go, and move beyond him, be back to you in the morning.

    anita

    #427887
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    I was confused recently, ever since you asked me, Feb 14 (four days ago), the following: “Do you think there is any possibility that N and I end up back together in a healthy relationship?“, and I gave you the wrong answer. I was confused because I didn’t process some information about you thoroughly, at the time. I re-read your earliest posts yesterday, studying them, and I am less confused today, therefore, amending my answer to: no, I don’t see any possibility that N and you end up back together in a healthy relationship.

    The reason, you stated it yourself, in your most recent post, yesterday: “He just lacked an emotional maturity and depth that was never going to work for someone like me, who is so curious about the world and is fed by the depth it brings. He said it, he was exhausted by depth.. that right there could have been enough to end the relationship… I still don’t see a romantic future because he did not want to have the deep real conversations we needed to align ourselves and our future“- that’s it, the Reason, end of story.

    And yes, the weed is something I don’t want to compromise. I think it can be fun recreationally, but not nightly, especially since it only distanced him MORE from his real feelings. He had a false sense of feeling after he smoked, like when someone apologizes after they’ve been drinking and it just doesn’t mean much“- his daily use of weed serves to maintain the Reason, his false apologies etc.

    I want to grow, and if that relationship with him would keep be stunted then it would not be worth it. I am happier out of the relationship! and that should be the bottom line. I have left the emotional roller coaster, I truly have, I was on a huge one and I truly feel I have exited. I miss the highs of that roller coaster, but not the lows. I deserve a steadier roller coaster. I honestly did my best in that relationship, I was willing to own up to my faults, he was not (soberly anyways)“- perfectly said. I agree 100%

    So, really, it’s end of story for me, in regard to the possibility of you resuming a relationship with him.

    I am going to start writing a book. I feel like I am at such an interesting time in my life where I am heading for great things“- heading for GREAT things (starting and publishing a book) is bringing me back to the topic of my confusion and yesterday’s study:

    By 22 (before getting together with N), you had no long-term relationship experience, only 5 relationships that lasted about 3 months each. Your only long-term relationship was, as you said yesterday, an “emotional roller coaster” and one that you were conflicted about and wanted to end for close to half of its 2-years+  duration.

    Re-reading your complaints about N in your 2 original posts, it’s clear that you required and demanded of him complete and ever present adoration, and when you didn’t get it, you were devastated. This factor would cause the failure of a healthy intimate relationship with ANY man.

    You wanted him to get all your jokes and laugh.. otherwise, you felt lonely. You were jealous at his roommate, as I understand it, wanting to be the only beneficiary of N’s resources. N took it all because he was “easy going” (made possible by his daily,  heavy weed use), accommodating your cravings to be treated Special, best he could, allowing you to determine where and how you spent your date nights, taking you to fancy dinners, etc. His easy-goingness and efforts to accommodate you may be the reasons why the relationship lasted so much longer than the previous 3-months limit per relationship.

    Here are a few quotes from what you shared in support of what I wrote right above:

    I do not feel physically confident IN the relationship (I know I’m adorable and sexy, but he does not make me feel it, he is silent and I don’t catch him staring at me or complimenting… My flirtation is lost on him and that is sooooooo hard for me… N doesn’t really laugh at my jokes, and sometimes he doesn’t even hear or get them at all. And in those moments, I feel so so lonely“- (1)  this is a very positive self-image/ confidence on your part, knowing that you are adorable and sexy. (2) you demanded his adoration and when he didn’t deliver it to your satisfaction, you were devasted, it was so very, very hard for you, you felt so very lonely.

    He is not afraid of commitment with me, he talks about kids, willing to be a stay-at-home dad or be the bread winner, whatever I want!!.. the pattern ends up me calling the shots a lot, our date nights depend on my mood, the music, most of the movies we watch, it’s all my comfortable preferences, when does this become selfish?“- you called the shots, he accommodated, or tried to.

    he has many friends I don’t necessarily like… his (still) roommate is not someone I typically would have spent a lot of time with for various reasons, I felt he takes from the energy more than he gives and I felt drained when he was around. I complained to my boyfriend about this more than I should have.. On ‘overly’ controlling my environment, I feel I can be selfish by simply not wanting certain people“- you wanted to be N’s one and only person.

    He often says ‘love is a choice’ and I get that and agree to an extent but I’m like ‘ok but what do you love about my personality? like me specifically apart from others… I am not sure he sees what makes me special as opposed to another girl who’s pretty, good awareness, and fun… he is always there for me, which is nice, but… I want him to tell me he loves things about me that make me ME… I want him to tell me he loves me and that I’m beautiful… and I want to explode and just be like ‘DO YOU SEE ME“-

    – ME, ME…

    “I have wondered before if I am a narcissist and a taker in life…  one day he will come out and say “we only ever do what you want and I’m sick of it… Above I mentioned a fear of being/becoming a narcissist”-

    Mayo clinic: “Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance. They need and seek too much attention and want people to admire them. People with this disorder may lack the ability to understand or care about the feelings of others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence, they are not sure of their self-worth and are easily upset by the slightest criticism. A narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of life, such as relationships, work, school or financial matters. People with narcissistic personality disorder may be generally unhappy and disappointed when they’re not given the special favors or admiration that they believe they deserve. They may find their relationships troubled and unfulfilling, and other people may not enjoy being around them. Treatment for narcissistic personality disorder centers around talk therapy, also called psychotherapy….  it often begins in the teens or early adulthood..

    “Symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and how severe they are can vary. People with the disorder can: * Have an unreasonably high sense of self-importance and require constant, excessive admiration. * Feel that they deserve privileges and special treatment. *Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements. * Make achievements and talents seem bigger than they are. * Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate. * Believe they are superior to others..”.

    What do you think, and how do you feel about this?

    anita

    #427901
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I will re-read and respond more thoroughly tomorrow but for now wanted to share how I feel about it.
    It makes me wonder if you are saying I was the cause of the relationship being an emotional roller coaster?

    “Re-reading your complaints about N in your 2 original posts, it’s clear that you required and demanded of him complete and ever present adoration, and when you didn’t get it, you were devastated. This factor would cause the failure of a healthy intimate relationship with ANY man.”

    My desire for him and I having deeper conversations feeling more seen by him is an unrealistic expectation in the first place and N was a perfectly good partnership that I ruined?

    I wrote:
    I am going to start writing a book. I feel like I am at such an interesting time in my life where I am heading for great things
    and you responded:

    eading for GREAT things (starting and publishing a book) is bringing me back to the topic of my confusion and yesterday’s study:”

    Am I delusional for believing I am bound for great things? I was meaning like I am only getting closer to where I am meant to be and who I am meant to be with. I don’t think I’m going to be something so amazing I just feel like I am nearing who I am and the best place for me.

    If this is all this is true (that I required too much and made the relationship not work after he tried so hard to accommodate me) then N was too good for me?

    I could be misreading, I am very tired and will return in the morning to absorb it better. So my fear is true? I am a narcissist?

    Seaturtle

     

Viewing 15 posts - 406 through 420 (of 448 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Please log in OR register.