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The Cliff to jump, is coming up soon……..

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  • #112750
    Nan
    Participant

    HI Anita,
    Yeas you have understood where I am coming from. It seems like the nurse caretaker role is one that I find many nurses like me, who settle for taking care of a lesser man than they deserve. Many of us are considered a catch, because we are a “nurse with a purse”. A wife who can have a career, and not be taken care of, no pressure on the man to have to worry about taking care of both himself AND her. But as young people, we date doctors, lawyers, etc, and notice how they don’t “need” us, and don’t need a caretaker. We don’t feel as important, and search for the man who needs some sort of care-taking. I am not speaking of all, but a lot of nurses that I know of.

    The idea of not talking care and fixing things for others is attractive. I’m tired. I do want that freedom, and realize that the interactions/relationship I have had for the last 36 years, is what has always “worked” for R-2. I dont think he knows any other way.
    I feel like the following example:
    A crab trap is a ridiculous piece of trap, that allows crabs to crawl in and crawl out through that large opening. . They all get in there, and a solo crab can’t break free. He is pulled down by the others, and not free to get out. It is like he has to stay in the crab trap, because the others wont let him free and pull him down every time. I have felt like that. I know there is an opening, but I cant free myself to move quickly on what I need to do, in order to breathe freedom. Pulling e down are my thoughts and “what if’s. It is all my doing, I know that for sure. I think the challenge I have, is that I do not have any close girlfriends or friends to confide of this. I see a therapist, but that is once a month or so, and I just don’t have that weekly support from a good friend that wont judge me. I have confided in one friend a year ago who lives alone in a 4 bedroom cabin, but she disagrees and says that R-2 ain’t so bad, and she had worse and I should stick it out. That I owe him something for 36 years together.(!) She says she stuck it out until he died. (Hmm, convenient, no?). She doesn’t offer a few days respite or even a room for just a week or two, when I leave. And has never asked me since about any of that since then. . I realized I did not and do not have anyone who would support me emotionally, so I have to toughen up and not break. I feel so alone with Nan’s Little Secret.

    #112761
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Nan:

    I just read your posts in your first thread starting on 1/27/16: Dilemma about past/present/future. I did because I am trying to figure out something I am not seeing. These are your quotes from that thread and my thoughts are in parentheses. I wonder if this could be helpful to you:

    “…My mother contined to adivse that I made a mistake and come home. She pointed out small worries as BIG worries (This tendency to see small worries as BIG worries is Nan’s tendency, one which is seeing R-2 as a MONSTER who will do terrible violent things when Nan leaves … while all along, in 35 years or so, there was no real violence coming from him)

    “…I left my husband (R-1) by dropping a letter on the table…(Nan was afraid he, R-1, will fall apart as well, do something violent?)

    “…I was adopted by my paternal grandmother when I was 3 months old, since biological mother disappeared. She had always made me feel like I “owed” her… I did not have a bad relationship with her, just a guilt-ridden one, of pleasing and feeling guilty when going my own way (The relationship that set in motion al others, specifically the one with R-2)

    “…The risk of talking this out with current husband, is the extreme reaction, maybe violent, maybe just total emotional collapse on his part.(severe exaggeration of consequences based on Nan’s experience with her mother who must have severely exaggerated negative responses to any small thing Nan did, so Nan got the believing that anything Nan does will bring about terrible consequences. Imagining an example: Nan spilled milk on floor and her mother falling apart, crying and yelling how Nan destroyed her life by spilling the milk, how she, the mother can’t go on living, what a terrible person Nan is… wild example).

    “… Through a therapist I had gone to last year for a short while, we determined that I had “married my mother” again (I agree: Nan sees R-2 not like R-2 is but like her mother was- she inaccurately projects her mother into R-2 which is easy for Nan to do since they have similarities. Like her mother,R-2 also focuses on himself, how terrible HIS life is, how good Nan has it, how unfortunate he is, how fortunate Nan is)

    …”(Nan) started feeling “less than” and always pointing out to me, my deficiencies as to looks, housecleaning, making love, etc…..always less than the vapid and shallow other females in the family (Something Nan’s mother did as well, compare her to others, to Nan’s disadvantage, as less than?)

    “…it crushes me to think of always thinking of others being hurt.. (Her mother must have repeated to Nan how much Nan was hurting her)

    “…Those family who say they “love” me, really don’t, they just know that I make things convenient and comfortable for them. If they truly loved me, they would want me to find my happiness. Most of my married family life has been ” What about me?” from those around me. My mother also was ” What about me? You owe me!” ,so life kept repeating itself. (Yes, relationship with her mother setting the template for all others)

    “… I cant speak logically or calmly to the husband, not sure of emotional collapse or violence that may come of it… (it is Nan’s experience with her mother’s histrionics, faked emotional collapse and suggested violence that she, Nan, is inaccurately projecting into R-2)

    “…I have had a “melancholy” marriage for a dozen years or more. You know the one, where something is missing, but cant put your thoughts clearly on what it is? NO fights, no arguments, just feeling taken for granted (no basis in reality for Nan’s fears of violence. These fears are based strictly on her experience decades ago, with her mother).

    “…I rarely asked for discussions, because the discussions would deteriorate into “How miserable can you be? What about me?” He always mentioned how my education and life were so much better than his….I have always never bitched or moaned, because he always said he had a lousy life, and why am I complaining?…(Triggers her mother’s focus on her misery, her self, and so projecting the mother into R-2 is made easier, more likely by this input by him. This input triggers Nan’s old patterns of thinking and behaving).

    “…. Do you know the insane jealousy and anger, if he finds out the situation with R-1? (Again, it is the insane jealousy that Nan experienced from her mother that she is projecting into R-2. Nan wrote that her mother was jealous at R-1 and that is why she sabotaged that relationship)

    “….R-2 found out about our communication one year ago, cried, collapsed and yelled, ” That F……r is still in my life, that SOB!” I denied any feelings and said it was just a mild flirt via Facebook and since then, he doesn’t know I still communicate or see him…R-2 became super sweet then and nothing like his usual nature for about 5 months, and then went back to his usual ways of whining about his life is lousy and his suffering in this life (perfect evidence to the fact that R-2 is not dangerous. All he did was exclaim “That f–” and then was sweet to Nan for five months- my goodness, this is evidence of the exact opposite happening from what Nan fears. He didn’t get violent- he good sweet!)

    —-

    Please read and re-read this, Nan. Meditate on this. These are your writings, all yours except what in parenthesis. Don’t gloss over this in your mind, but seriously consider what is in here, please.

    anita

    #112770
    Nan
    Participant

    Thank you so much for the summary, Anita. Yes, my life has been modeled from my childhood. I am fitting all the pieces into those familiar roles, because that is what I expect. Thank you for taking the time and patience to throw back at me my own words. It doesn’t allow for wiggle room, and I like the direct approach. As Roosevelt said, ” The only thing you have to fear is fear itself”. You have taken all the broken thoughts and pieces and made me see the whole puzzle. I will read and re-read. Your message is clear.
    Darling Anita- you are so clear when all of us are stuck in the mud of emotions! You could start charging for that insight easily!

    #112776
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Nan:

    Seeing more today into your mind and life is… mind boggling to me. I am clearer today how little of what is real we all see; how so much of what we see is a replay of what was. The being “stuck in the mud of emotions” you wrote is so very true. I realize today that indeed so much of our emotions- until we become aware and awake to reality- are leading us into dysfunctional lives. When we “fit” our emotions in childhood into whatever picture that made us feel safer, we messed up our emotions as GUIDES to functional, healthy behavior. It is that twisting in childhood.

    After you re-read and as calmly as possible process the information, write to me again, will you? Let me know more of the puzzle you are re-arranging, the one congruent with reality.

    anita

    #112837
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Nan:

    I decided to complete my analysis of your first thread now and hope you do consider my two first-thread-analysis posts to you.

    Regarding your mother/grandmother: “I did not have a bad relationship with her, just a guilt-ridden one, of pleasing and feeling guilty when going my own way…It just feels like I have given away my whole life to please others. Do I not follow my heart

    Regarding R-2, you wrote: “I don’t feel anything but numbness for R-2. I keep the ‘game face’ on at all times. and don’t let him get under my skin, because I basically don’t care anymore…I have not seen an aggressive side, but don’t want to tempt it.”

    My summary: You wrote that you “did not have a bad relationship with (your mother)”- oh, yes, you did. The relationship was so bad that you couldn’t handle it, as a child, so you made believe it wasn’t a bad relationship. And it wasn’t as bad as it could have been, you figure, because you did everything she wanted most of the time. You lived her way and took breaks in partying life. Her way/ party. That was your life.

    With R-2, same thing: for 15 years or so, it was his way/ party. The party part, social life, cruises were like the party life before you married R-2. Partying made it possible for you to endure living His Way as it did living Her Way.

    You can handle R-2 the same way you handled your mother: make believe it isn’t bad. Feeling numb. Pretending. This has been the most comfortable way for you so far.

    There is no evidence whatsoever to justify your fear of R-2. He is not your mother, he just resembles her some in the ways he dismisses you and pities himself. If you leave him he will say things, nothing more- no homicide or suicide. He will be making his own lunches and doing his laundry. Maybe not as well as you do these things for him, but he will do them anyway. He, R-2, is well prepared for your leaving him, over a dozen years or so in that all of his living bills as well as son’s college and other expenses were paid by “the nurse with the purse” – you. And he was able to save the money he made. He is well prepared.

    Your beliefs that he will fall apart, collapse, commit suicide, hunt you or other people down..- these are your delusional beliefs, so I believe. These things are very unlikely to happen.

    For some reason you agreed to the arrangement of having separate accounts: your money and his money AND all bills paid from your money while he saves his money. The nurse-with-the-purse has not been wise.

    Regarding R-1, you wrote: “He had told me from the first time we talked, of how he NEVER forgot me and wanted to reach out for decades, but was afraid… He is recently divorced in the past few months… He said he finally overcame his fear on my 60th birthday, searched me on the internet… He never pressures and gives no ultimatums, just wants me to be happy. He deeply understands my fears and feels a little compassion for his old friend R-2″

    R-1 never pressured you to leave R-2 and never gave you ultimatums because so far, he himself was not ready to leave the house he lives in, still legally married to another woman and living with his grown sons. He was not and is not yet ready to leave. It wouldn’t have made sense for him to pressure you to leave R-2 when he is not ready to live with you. You believed that him not pressuring you is because he loves you, and it would be IF he was ready and motivated to live with you right away and the only thing standing between him and living with you is you being with R-2. But this is not the case.

    You wrote that he was afraid for decades…from a grandmother? Wasn’t she dead during those decades of his fear, way before you turned 60? Really? Or he was afraid of you just because of what the grandmother said decades before?

    This is all I got. And this is the way best to proceed in my humble opinion: get good psychotherapy with a competent therapist twice a week at the least, do so while you work or take a break from work. This will be the best use of the money you earned for so many years- this would be the best financial investment you can make.

    In therapy separate, or peel your grandmother OFF R-2 so you can see R-2.

    In therapy separate fantasy from R-1 and see R-1 for who he is. (I am not suggesting he is a bad person, by the way, one with evil intents, only that he is very limited).

    I don’t think you should stay married to R-2 for any reason, such as social convention, your grown son, or any other reason. Thing is, if you are not suffering living with R-2, then you are not motivated to leave. This would be a personal decision. You will get older regardless of you leaving or staying. And there is getting old to think about- who will take care of you at an older age? This needs to be part of the plan.

    The title of this latest thread is” The Cliff to jump, is coming soon…” Why jump (leave) if you are not suffering? There is no lush, green, soft landing to jump to (R-1). And the cliff is so high because you are afraid of your grandmother who is not alive anymore except in your own brain, still kicking and screaming there.

    anita

    #112848
    Nan
    Participant

    R-1: the reason he was afraid for decades was that the misinformation he received at our divorce, was that he was mentally crushing me, that I was deathly afraid of him, and would call the police if he ever approached me. This was truth to him, as he had been given a restraining order against him. This restraining order was forged and signed by my (grand) mother and the lawyer she was in cahoots with, to make sure I had no communication with him. He thought he had destroyed me (never the case), and was afraid to approach, thinking I would rip into him and/or upset me terribly. He was told I was in a mental hospital for a short period before school started due to him. It was such a woven web of lies. I see the procrastination side of him more clearly now. He knew of my life 2-3 years later, as we had mutual friends in the same area, and he asked about me lots of times, and I didn’t know about that at all. He called and left a message when my grandmother died, but I remember hearing that he left a message about condolences and hoped we were doing well per R-2.. R-2 erased it before I ever got home and just told me about it. (NO cells in the day, just home land lines). He is a procrastinator I can see this so clearly now. And my ” get it done now” attitude is in conflict at times with this.
    R-2: When we first married, I wanted separate accounts. He was very practical and for example, could not understand why a woman needs more than 3 pairs of shoes. ( Work, going out and sneakers). I would not be controlled like that, and spent my money back then anyway I wanted. This was all OK when he owned businesses and life was grand. My money was for me and any way I wanted to spend. He did pay all house expenses and vacations. So, that worked out well. When he went bankrupt, it was a lifesaver that I had my own credit cards, car in my own name and no financial connection, that would be taken from me as a spouse possibly. He has gotten cheap these years, and that is why I cant combine accounts, as he will moan of how I waste money. Well, we would not have cell phones or cable or internet, if left to his way. That is how that developed over the years. I want it, I get it with no permission needed.
    You do make sense when you state that if I am not really suffering, I am not motivated to leave. That is correct. I feel more courage, when I am irritated and pissed at him.
    As for getting older, I don’t think he has the capability of “taking care” of me in my old age. He is adverse to medical issues. I have had breast lumps my whole life, with the yearly mammograms and biopsies over the years, more numerous than I can count. If I should need breast surgery/mastectomies/ chemo, I don’t feel he would be much support currently. He always says if something “happens’ to me, who will pay the bills? REALLY? That is your biggest concern? I always joked that if I was seriously ill, he would be measuring the coffin for me, and not be that supportive due to his negativity and always thinking of the worst case scenario. My latest scare related to mammo and something funky on it (requiring a re-do) terrified me. But I never said a word, and did the re-do and no info to him. So grateful that it was nothing at this time. I never confided in him. I did confide in R-1 who listened to my fears and my panic, and soothed and calmed me. He said he wants me to be healthy and live a long life with him. The graphic talk I was telling him about how breast cancer is treated, and the aftermath/ugliness of it all did not phase him one bit. He listened and listened. Then he said that he loves me with our without boobs. He loves my laughter and my soul. It felt good to hear that, even though I knew it wasnt logical, I felt better. When I called him after the second one and informed him nothing wrong, his voice became shaky, and I knew he had tears. as he said he had prayed for days on this for a good outcome.
    So, R-1 not officially free, R-2 knowing nothing of my thoughts. Not so much a cliff, more of a closing one door and opening another one to freedom of myself. Working on it! Grandmother= guilt and fear. NO longer alive and still has control if I let it. For each guilt story in my head, I push it back with I DESERVE TO BE HAPPY….not live for another in a servile and emotionless role. Thanks for your time and consideration, Anita.

    #112858
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Nan:

    You are welcome. R-1 sounds very loving to you, no doubt, and he has comforted you many times in the last couple of years. Unfortunately, he is not yet free to make a life with you. He will continue to be there for you on the phone and maybe for a visit again- hopefully not cutting it short. Maybe this will change but it may not.

    So take your comfort from him: you need it; you need him because you feel his caring for you.

    anita

    #113851
    Nan
    Participant

    HI again. The last 10 days have blown my mind! 10 days ago, a note was left on my door, that a person was interested in buying my house for cash! I was so curious and called. The man came over on a Sunday and looked over and inside the house. He sent an offer a few hours later that day, with a request to sign and agree by that Tuesday 6 pm. It was going to be As- is and cash. He had 10 days from the signature date, to do due diligence and get inspectors and repair guys coming over and giving him estimates for the remodeling he was thinking of. I found out he wasn’t a regular guy (who told me he needed a house close to the school nearby, so his son could walk to school. due to an incapacitated wife). I engaged my attorney, about the deal and found out this guy is a “flipper”. Buy houses, remodel, repair and sell fast. His story was probably crap, but the agreed price, etc was OK and I signed with my attorneys advice. I have lived a living hell for the last 8 days since signature. He wants to close by end of September. I took this last weekend, bought boxes, dragged stuff downstairs for a garage sale and also thought of and checked into moving, storage and an apartment to live in. R-2 was minimally helpful because he works on the weekends and did demonstrate his self-centered side. Here is an example:
    We are to move into the apartment the first week of October weekend. It is football season. R-2 was major worried that the TV wouldnt be hooked up to see the weekend games. He wants to MAKE SURE that I get the cable company out the day we move in. That stunned me. He is showing his true colors! He is also being passive aggressive with the furniture and stuff we need to get rid of or sell or keep. It is like we have a total of 8 rooms (4 bedrooms, office room, kitchen, living room, den) and having to reduce to a total of 4 room apartment. Every piece of furniture and picture on the wall is up for discussion.
    So, the buyer now has 2 more days until he needs to tell me if he is going to go through with the sale, and has pointed out every possible defect to me over the last few days.. I think this is a psychological game of making sure that I feel the house isnt worth it to him and he wont go thru with it. I have been in limbo, because days are going by and I am unsure if I am moving or not. The buyer can tell me Friday that he isnt going forward. Or may try to re-offer a much lower price that wouldnt work for me. My crisis is I so do want to sell this house, as it has been my biggest issue in getting on with my life. If it doesn’t go through, I will be crushed and beaten. I have 2 more days of intense worry that it wont happen. If it does, I will put the after-burners on and get everything done. Of course, I will pay the rent and house (apt.) expenses as usual. R-2 is very uncomfortable with a storage unit and wants all the “Stuff” packed into the apartment. I refused to live like that. . So, I guess I will be paying storage too now. If the house sells, then we will move to an apartment and I can determine to leave from there after a short period and he can pay for the apartment or move. I inquired as to how to break the lease and fees for that. I am just holding my breath to Friday. It is only 2 days away, but it is bearing down on me hard. I feel like I have the whole world of pressure on me and me only. R-1 has offered support and encouragement, but that is from afar. My mind is racing with the “What If’s” and trying hard to slow it down, as well as focus at work at the same time.
    Oh- one more little item: R-2 booked a short cruise for us the week in between closing and the apartment being ready. His idea is that why wait it out during the gap period in a hotel? Another little item to plan for! But he wont take those same days and ask for them to be during the move and help me. He will have to work on the October weekend move (make sure there is cable though!). My life is one big stress factory these days!

    #113860
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Nan:

    What an unexpected development. On Friday, two more days, you will know. I don’t know why you are the one paying for everything still, for the apartment if you move to one as well as for the storage unit. I suppose you keep doing what you have been doing for the last dozen years or so.

    Then if you move to the apartment, you plan on moving out of it, dealing with the lease and you expect R-2 to do what he will not be doing until you move: pay the rent. I suppose you don’t want to deal now with changing the paying arrangement.

    Will look for an update from you this weekend. The flipping guy, sounds like he may cancel or offer a much lower price that you will reject.

    Hold on, this is definitely a roller coaster ride you are on these days.. maybe a preparation for “The Cliff to jump” (the title of your thread).

    Take care of yourself-

    anita

    #113875
    VJ
    Participant

    Dear Nan,

    “..it is bearing down on me hard. I feel like I have the whole world of pressure on me and me only
    My mind is racing with the “What If’s” and trying hard to slow it down, as well as focus at work at the same time
    My life is one big stress factory these days!”

    For quickly overcoming those overwhelming feelings, feeling stressed out, racing thoughts in the head and to gain better clarity to make a suitable decision I suggest you to take a few minutes to do the below Breathing exercises. “Those few minutes are going to give you a lot many hours”.

    Relationship End


    Quote #113816
    Search for 113816 on the page.

    Do post back how things went with you after you cross the situation.

    VJ.

    #113894
    Nan
    Participant

    I pay for everything because I make 3 times what he does. I started paying for all, when he lost his job years ago. Then, he has had several jobs that pay about 40% of what I make. He pays tuition for college. I sort of fell into that situation. He does save money well, but it is all under his control. On the surface, he acts like we are equal partners, ( with my money), but then holds onto his own, unless he feels like spending it (cruises?). We have had separate accounts since day one. Breathe and pray, that is all I can do today.

    #113909
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    So, you’ve decided to leave this man. Isn’t the sale of the house the perfect time to do that? Let him go on his cruise by his damn self. If you want to be really kind, let him move into the new apartment with all the furniture, but don’t pay for storage. Haven’t you done enough?

    I know you’re worried about how he will react if you drop the bomb, but I don’t see how it’s going to be any less bad if you first get settled into your new home.

    Your thread seems to be full of: Once this is over I can… and First I have to get this out of the way… and The only hurdle left now is… You know what you gotta do. Do it now. Do it.

    The stress factory will stop production as soon as you pull the plug. Then you’ll be able to start clearing out. May as well start.

    I know you’re scared. I know it’s going to be hard. This is only my take, follow your own advice, of course. Be well.

    #113910
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    And tell him to go watch the match in the pub, good grief!!!

    #114078
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Nan:

    Friday almost over. Wonder what happened???

    anita

    #114142
    Nan
    Participant

    Bartered back and forth with the buyer who was acting like he was doing me a BIG favor. Well, we agreed to reduce the price of the house and I signed 20 minutes before the deadline hour. I now have 25 days to get this all done and be out to the next dwelling. Trying to recoup some of what I spent on deposits, boxes, packing supplies, with a garage sale or two.
    Will have the next 25 days be a whirlwind of activity, between work and home. Requested that R-2 search for a storage place this next Thursday when he is off, and acquire it. I do that with the idea that he will sign responsibility for the storage and if he wants the 10 boxes of trophies and pictures and miscellaneous sports memorabilia between he and my son, then he will need to know it will get paid by him. I am elated and also scared ( hello fear again!) just because of the overwhelming myriad of things to do and close services, change mail addresses, etc before closing. I feel like this has been a gift handed to me, so that the one huge barrier of owning a declining house and unable to walk away, was draining my possibility of moving forward. So life now noisy and busy with activities. Cant or wont start trouble, in order to finish this business and clearly think ahead. Thank you for your thoughts and support!

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