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anita.
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May 8, 2024 at 7:49 am #432479
anitaParticipantDear Nichole:
“I was also enjoying the attention. It was exciting to be back in contact. It was a distraction from some of my own issues in my own life. It was my loneliness“- contact with friendly people is exciting, especially when one is lonely. It’s like this for all social mammals. Think of dogs, how excited they get when in contact with people and with other dogs (who they don’t consider to be a threat), wagging their tails and all.
“Anyhow, we have not spoke other than in short. I have set a boundary, silently, and he seems to be respecting it“- it’s very important that you set boundaries and that people respect your boundaries!
“Boundaries are hard to stick to, I find. I don’t know if throughout the years my mind has created a poor memory, but I set boundaries and goals and can easily move on to the next or just forget, lose interest in this important goal/boundary I set. I find it hard to stay consistent. And it’s disappointing“- focus on how well you are doing; on where you succeed, not on where you fail. We all fail every day: it’s the human condition. Best you can do, when you fail, is to make a mental note of how you can do better the next time you encounter a similar situation. Make a note of it (in your mind, or you can write it down), like a student would, for the purpose of learning, without self-condemnation. Students learn better when they are treated kindly. Treat yourself. Always.
“Last month my uncle and I spoke. During the conversation he let me know that he would like to gift me a down payment on a condo. I was stunned. I have never received such a monetary gift… I have a lot of work to do financially before I can afford this. This is a goal I must stick to.“- I can’t think of anyone more deserving of such a gift, how exciting! I hope the gift materializes. You’ve been wanting to buy a condo for years!
anita
May 16, 2024 at 7:26 am #432723
NicholeParticipantHi Anita,
You are so right about that. The new attention is nice, especially in the beginning. Still holding up on the boundaries. I have had to be in contact with my brother for my father’s care. My brother has been very sweet with letting me know how much he missed me in their life. He says I am so rare and such a good person and he wants to always be in my life. Very endearing. But I still do not like some of the roads our conversations take and I am still working on this. I also fear gaslighting from him. I think the past has to do with it but also that my brother can have manipulative ways. He has even admitted it and says he is working on being more empathetic and putting himself in others shoes. I can tell he is working on it. Sorry if I am ranting here. I am just confused. Like did I do the right thing allowing them back in my life? I know ultimately I control how much. I hear and a lot of people in the healing community talk about not going back to those who showed who they were etc. Even Biblical quotes but then also hear the contradiction of love your family. I just have that jiggling in my head.
Thank you for that complement Anita! Saying I am most deserving of my gift. That means so much to me 🙂
May 16, 2024 at 9:56 am #432725anitaParticipantDear Nichole:
* I just re-read my last post to you, from May 8: I wrote: “Treat yourself. Always.”, I meant: Treat yourself kindly. Always.”
And now, to your today’s post: “Still holding up on the boundaries“- good thing, that’s being kind to yourself.
“My brother has been very sweet with letting me know how much he missed me in their life. He says I am so rare and such a good person and he wants to always be in my life. Very endearing. But… my brother can have manipulative ways. He has even admitted it and says he is working on being more empathetic and putting himself in others shoes. I can tell he is working on it… I am just confused. Like did I do the right thing allowing them back in my life? I know ultimately I control how much. I hear and a lot of people in the healing community talk about not going back to those who showed who they were etc. Even Biblical quotes but then also hear the contradiction of love your family. I just have that jiggling in my head“-
– I went back to your 2018 thread where you shared about your older brother (I’ll refer to him here as OB) to get a better sense of him in relation to you. Today, you wrote about OB: “(He) says he is working on being more empathetic and putting himself in others shoes“. On Dec 7, 2018, you wrote about yourself: “The problem I have is I have too much empathy. I put myself in her shoes“. This is an important distinction: OB has to little empathy, you have too much of it. (It is not surprising to me because siblings in dysfunctional families often do take opposite roles).
The next sentence you wrote back then, in the same post was: “I am currently suffering from self hate, self shame“. Connecting this to your current dilemma, I’d say that if your current contact with OB causes you any amount of self-hate, or self-shame then end the contact.
Still, in the same post, you shared in regard to OB: “ I was sexually abused by my brother. I would say from what I remember ages 5-13. And I have kept it inside all these years. I’m just now learning to validate myself for what I went through. It was never a forceful thing it was a manipulation… I have often considered my brother and I to be close after the abuse and as an adult. He can be kind and we have both given each other great life advice. But at this point in my life I am very distant with him as I am feeling the pain of what he did to me. I am angry with myself for keeping a good relationship with him and honestly trying to ‘please’ him and his fiancé for the last 9 years… I am so fed up with abuse… when I stand up for myself with these people, my mind plays games with me and I start finding ways to empathize for what they did to me. And I almost wish they were back in my life. It’s like I can’t trust my mind to establish what is ok and what is not“- what this means to me is that OB was supposed to fully acknowledge what he did to you, and express sincere regret before (and if) you were to have any relationship with him after the abuse. Also, I can see here his history of manipulation. As well as your history of feeling empathy for him and trying to please him.
Six days later, on Dec 13, 2018, you shared: “I am still having trouble finding out where the love was or is… I have been pleasing people in hopes that they would love me. It such a hard reality to think I have been self hating and shaming for years. Its hard to realize I have been mainly abused and manipulated my whole life… It is so hard to start having boundaries and learning myself and how to start even being a ‘self’. My life up until now has always been lived for others. I have always helped my family… I am just afraid in life, I don’t want to continue on with same old patterns. I want to learn to love myself and make a life… there are days like today where I wake up with no confidence and my codependency habits are flaring“- again, my points are: (1) there shouldn’t be a relationship between you and OB if he didn’t yet fully acknowledge his years-long abuse of you, and expressed sincere regret for what he has done to you, (2) if contact with him (before or after him fully acknowledging the abuse, etc.) causes you shame and self-hate, there should be no contact. I will add that you’ve been doing very well since you left Chicago and moved back to Florida on your own. Be careful with the “same old pattern.. codependency habits” you mentioned in the quote above.
“It’s like I can’t trust my mind to establish what is ok and what is not” (12/7/2018) “I am just confused. Like did I do the right thing allowing them back in my life?.. Biblical quotes” (5/16/2024)-
Romans 12: “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect… Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. <sup class=”versenum”> </sup>Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor… Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.’<sup class=”versenum”> </sup>To the contrary, ‘if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.’<sup class=”versenum”> </sup>Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”-
– What the above.. Personal and World Peace Recipe means to me, when it comes to your personal search, as a Christian, for clarity about “what is ok and what is not… (what is) the right thing“, is that the right thing to do is (as the quote above says) “Outdo one another in showing honor… Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all“-
– Gracefully, give OB the opportunity to be honorable and fully acknowledge and repent for his years-long abuse of his sister by (1) bringing this up to him (in writing/ email, if it’s too difficult to do on the phone, or in-person), and (2) by not people-pleasing him before he fully acknowledged and repented. When you give him your empathetic time and kindness while he is not yet honorable (let’s say he made comments indirectly suggesting regret, but did not fully acknowledge and repented), he is less likely to be motivated to do what is honorable, and fully acknowledge and repent.
Gracefully confronting him with the truth, and not people-pleasing him, does not mean repaying evil for evil. It means to not be conformed to this world (this world of neglected honor), but be transformed by the renewal of your mind (the renewal of love and honor for yourself, and for OB- by giving him the opportunity to love and honor you and others).
Notice, it says Outdo one another in showing honor, outdo one another not in showing indiscriminate approval and affection, but in showing honor: civility, esteem, honesty, integrity, modesty, respect, and responsibility to all.
anita
May 16, 2024 at 10:03 am #432726anitaParticipantRe-submitted:
Dear Nichole:
* I just re-read my last post to you, from May 8: I wrote: “Treat yourself. Always.”, I meant: Treat yourself kindly. Always.”
And now, to your today’s post: “Still holding up on the boundaries“- good thing, that’s being kind to yourself.
“My brother has been very sweet with letting me know how much he missed me in their life. He says I am so rare and such a good person and he wants to always be in my life. Very endearing. But… my brother can have manipulative ways. He has even admitted it and says he is working on being more empathetic and putting himself in others shoes. I can tell he is working on it… I am just confused. Like did I do the right thing allowing them back in my life? I know ultimately I control how much. I hear and a lot of people in the healing community talk about not going back to those who showed who they were etc. Even Biblical quotes but then also hear the contradiction of love your family. I just have that jiggling in my head“-
– I went back to your 2018 thread where you shared about your older brother (I’ll refer to him here as OB) to get a better sense of him in relation to you. Today, you wrote about OB: “(He) says he is working on being more empathetic and putting himself in others shoes“. On Dec 7, 2018, you wrote about yourself: “The problem I have is I have too much empathy. I put myself in her shoes“. This is an important distinction: OB has to little empathy, you have too much of it. (It is not surprising to me because siblings in dysfunctional families often do take opposite roles).
The next sentence you wrote back then, in the same post was: “I am currently suffering from self hate, self shame“. Connecting this to your current dilemma, I’d say that if your current contact with OB causes you any amount of self-hate, or self-shame then end the contact.
Still, in the same post, you shared in regard to OB: “ I was sexually abused by my brother. I would say from what I remember ages 5-13. And I have kept it inside all these years. I’m just now learning to validate myself for what I went through. It was never a forceful thing it was a manipulation… I have often considered my brother and I to be close after the abuse and as an adult. He can be kind and we have both given each other great life advice. But at this point in my life I am very distant with him as I am feeling the pain of what he did to me. I am angry with myself for keeping a good relationship with him and honestly trying to ‘please’ him and his fiancé for the last 9 years… I am so fed up with abuse… when I stand up for myself with these people, my mind plays games with me and I start finding ways to empathize for what they did to me. And I almost wish they were back in my life. It’s like I can’t trust my mind to establish what is ok and what is not“- what this means to me is that OB was supposed to fully acknowledge what he did to you, and express sincere regret before (and if) you were to have any relationship with him after the abuse. Also, I can see here his history of manipulation. As well as your history of feeling empathy for him and trying to please him.
Six days later, on Dec 13, 2018, you shared: “I am still having trouble finding out where the love was or is… I have been pleasing people in hopes that they would love me. It such a hard reality to think I have been self hating and shaming for years. Its hard to realize I have been mainly abused and manipulated my whole life… It is so hard to start having boundaries and learning myself and how to start even being a ‘self’. My life up until now has always been lived for others. I have always helped my family… I am just afraid in life, I don’t want to continue on with same old patterns. I want to learn to love myself and make a life… there are days like today where I wake up with no confidence and my codependency habits are flaring“- again, my points are: (1) there shouldn’t be a relationship between you and OB if he didn’t yet fully acknowledge his years-long abuse of you, and expressed sincere regret for what he has done to you, (2) if contact with him (before or after him fully acknowledging the abuse, etc.) causes you shame and self-hate, there should be no contact. I will add that you’ve been doing very well since you left Chicago and moved back to Florida on your own. Be careful with the “same old pattern.. codependency habits” you mentioned in the quote above.
“It’s like I can’t trust my mind to establish what is ok and what is not” (12/7/2018) “I am just confused. Like did I do the right thing allowing them back in my life?.. Biblical quotes” (5/16/2024)-
Romans 12: “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect… Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor… Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.’ To the contrary, ‘if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.’ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”-
– What the above.. Personal and World Peace Recipe means to me, when it comes to your personal search, as a Christian, for clarity about “what is ok and what is not… (what is) the right thing“, is that the right thing to do is (as the quote above says) “Outdo one another in showing honor… Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all“-
– Gracefully, give OB the opportunity to be honorable and fully acknowledge and repent for his years-long abuse of his sister by (1) bringing this up to him (in writing/ email, if it’s too difficult to do on the phone, or in-person), and (2) by not people-pleasing him before he fully acknowledged and repented. When you give him your empathetic time and kindness while he is not yet honorable (let’s say he made comments indirectly suggesting regret, but did not fully acknowledge and repented), he is less likely to be motivated to do what is honorable, and fully acknowledge and repent.
Gracefully confronting him with the truth, and not people-pleasing him, does not mean repaying evil for evil. It means to not be conformed to this world (this world of neglected honor), but be transformed by the renewal of your mind (the renewal of love and honor for yourself, and for OB- by giving him the opportunity to love and honor you and others).
Notice, it says Outdo one another in showing honor, outdo one another not in showing indiscriminate approval and affection, but in showing honor: civility, esteem, honesty, integrity, modesty, respect, and responsibility to all.
Back to your post of 2.5 hours ago: “Thank you for that complement Anita! Saying I am most deserving of my gift“- you are very welcome, you do deserve good things!
anita
August 24, 2024 at 8:01 am #436541
sophyParticipantI’m deeply sorry for your losses, Mehwish. Your pain is understandable, and it’s crucial to allow yourself time to grieve. Continue taking small steps toward healing and consider professional support. Reconnect with your values and passions, and practice self-compassion. You’re resilient, and finding meaning will take time but is possible.
September 15, 2024 at 7:35 pm #438133NicholeParticipantHi Anita,
Wow, 5 months since my last post. I can be a real procrastinator, I am sorry!
I cannot tell you how many times I have thought to myself, I would like to catch up on our conversation. I am glad to be doing so now.
I loved your response to my confusion and the way you used scripture. I trust this.
The sexual abuse is still hard for me to address with my brother. I have not felt an opportunity or desire to do this.
These last few months I have had a decent amount of contact with family. My brother in Chicago had a wedding and asked me to be there so I actually seen my entire family for the first time in years. It went surprisingly well. Most were very kind and seemed happy to see me. My aunt cried when she seen me. My cousins hugged me tight and let me know how much they missed me. I believe them. And I observed while I was there. I maintained my boundaries. I was present. Although, they love me and missed me, they are still who they are. A lot of behaviors I chose to excuse myself from and conversations I chose to stay out of. Boundaries like that made this visit so much better. I tried to only give what I had and took breaks when I needed it.
This made me wonder if that’s all I needed to do from the beginning. Or if this is something I can go forward with, with family.
There is no doubt I needed to get away from my family in the past. And I needed to grow as a person and have my own life. But I do enjoy knowing I am mending these relationships. It makes me feel motivated to continue building my life. Just with boundaries this go around.
I have had some long and “therapy like” conversations with my OB. He has opened up so much to me. I can see he is really trying to change and explore his feelings and his past. I let him know after a really detailed conversation that I love him and want him to know I am here for him but really believe he needs to speak to a therapist. I put up a boundary and let him know that as he explores his past and continues to heal there will be too many things that come up that will be triggering for me since we grew up in the same household. I expressed that I am still healing myself. I was proud to say that. He was accepting of that.
I really do see him trying in ways that I am surprised by and I am hoping that as he digs deep there can one day be a conversation and apology for the abuse.
I have asked myself if I am people pleasing in that. I know I am extending a lot of grace but I feel whole enough to do that at this point. Is that wrong?
Also, I don’t know if bringing that trauma to the fore front would be good for me right now. I am feeling more content and peaceful these days. Still have my ups and downs but so much more manageable. I am at a place where I just want to focus on continuing to build my foundation. Finding out who I am.
These are my late night thoughts. I am looking forward to hearing back from you Anita and hope that are doing well!
September 15, 2024 at 7:48 pm #438134anitaParticipantDear Nichole: So GOOD to read from you again! I will reply further Mon morning.
anita
September 16, 2024 at 8:55 am #438147anitaParticipantDear Nichole:
Indeed 5 months today since you posted last, and since my last reply to you (May 26, 2024). A little more history: you started this thread on Sept 11, 2019. Your very first post was on Aug 21, 2018.
“The sexual abuse is still hard for me to address with my brother. I have not felt an opportunity or desire to do this“- I understand, and of course, you don’t have to address it.
“My brother in Chicago had a wedding and asked me to be there so I actually seen my entire family for the first time in years. It went surprisingly well. Most were very kind and seemed happy to see me. My aunt cried when she seen me. My cousins hugged me tight and let me know how much they missed me. I believe them“- notice that this very positive experience with your family took place during a special occasion: your younger brother’s wedding, and it happened after you didn’t see your entire family in years. If you moved back to Chicago, being in physical proximity and regular contact with your family, it will probably be a different experience.
“And I observed while I was there. I maintained my boundaries… This made me wonder if that’s all I needed to do from the beginning“- from the beginning, as a child, you were not able to form and maintain boundaries with your parents and older sibling (no child is), and when you were abused by them, it was not your fault (for not having boundaries). it was their fault.
“Or if this is something I can go forward with, with family… It makes me feel motivated to continue building my life. Just with boundaries this go around“- having boundaries with people is necessary when it comes to healthy relationships. Others need to respect your boundaries though, just as you respect theirs.
“I have had some long and ‘therapy like’ conversations with my OB. He has opened up so much to me… I let him know after a really detailed conversation that I love him and want him to know I am here for him but really believe he needs to speak to a therapist. I put up a boundary and let him know that as he explores his past and continues to heal there will be too many things that come up that will be triggering for me since we grew up in the same household. I expressed that I am still healing myself. I was proud to say that. He was accepting of that. I really do see him trying in ways that I am surprised by and I am hoping that as he digs deep there can one day be a conversation and apology for the abuse. I have asked myself if I am people pleasing in that. I know I am extending a lot of grace but I feel whole enough to do that at this point. Is that wrong?“-
– You were not wrong according to the scriptures I quoted for you in my last reply, 5 months ago: “Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor… Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all… if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink… Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” (Roman 12). The way you’ve been there for OB is .. almost saintly. And asserting your boundary with him, as you did, is admirable.
“Also, I don’t know if bringing that trauma to the fore front would be good for me right now. I am feeling more content and peaceful these days. Still have my ups and downs but so much more manageable. I am at a place where I just want to focus on continuing to build my foundation. Finding out who I am“- reads like bringing up that trauma to the forefront is not a good idea.
I am glad that you are focused on building your foundation, finding out who you are: a good, honorable person!
anita
September 17, 2024 at 7:18 pm #438194NicholeParticipantHi Anita,
Wow, how the years have moved along. Sometimes really bumpy and other times just small waves.
Yes. thank you for pointing it out. That it was a vacation/wedding and we all had our happy faces on. I sometimes miss city life but do not wish to live that close to family. If I ever think of it and tell you please bring me back to reality!! lol! I do get a sense of distraction by being needed with family. But I think it’s only a distraction from the fact that I have to continue building my own life. Something no one can take away from me. I still resist a lot of change that I want to make in this area. Like planning more social events then cancel. Plan to go to gym/park and end up at home scrolling on my phone. Dating! I have gone on a few dates but no where near enough.
Thank you for that compliment Anita! I do believe I am a good, honorable person but it’s been a while since I have felt that way. I still carry a lot of guilt. I also don’t think I spend enough time with people who have the capacity to celebrate me.
OB is and always will be a challenging relationship or at least now and in near future until hopefully he goes to therapy but he will need A lot of it. I started my journey with therapy in 2017 and then started learning more and more in 2018 around the time of my perfect storm when I first reached out here. I have grown and learned so much but still feel as though, just like showering, healing is a everyday thing. If you miss a few days, you notice and feel it.
September 18, 2024 at 10:22 am #438208anitaParticipantDear Nichole:
“I sometimes miss city life but do not wish to live that close to family. If I ever think of it and tell you please bring me back to reality!!“- I will and I’ll quote your words right here!
“I have to continue building my own life. Something no one can take away from me. I still resist a lot of change that I want to make in this area. Like planning more social events then cancel… Dating! I have gone on a few dates but no where near enough“- be empathetic and patient with yourself, you need these two things from yourself, and from others.
“Thank you for that compliment Anita! I do believe I am a good, honorable person but it’s been a while since I have felt that way. I still carry a lot of guilt“- you are welcome and I am glad that you know that you are indeed a good and honorable person. Maybe if you know this truth deeper, the guilt will finally dissolve.
“I also don’t think I spend enough time with people who have the capacity to celebrate me“- I hope you find yourself with people who celebrate you!
“I have grown and learned so much but still feel as though, just like showering, healing is a everyday thing. If you miss a few days, you notice and feel it.“- I agree, and personally (lol) I can’t miss more than a few hours of showering/ some kind of healing work before I notice!
anita
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